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carraj
Medium member
USA
107 Posts |
 Posted - 13/04/2005 : 06:20:06
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Peder JOHNSON - Olina PEDERSDATTER. Found Great Grandfather/Grandmother in 1865 Norway Census - telling for 1624 Stadsbygd. Distriknr 6, Side 113, Skoledistrikt Ritsen, Sogn Risen, Prestegjeld Stadsbygd, Gardsnavn Nostbraettingen.
All children except two daughters emigrated to Minnesota. Oldest daughter Methe Maria Pedersdatter, born in 1856, married Ole SVE, born in 1855.
Olina Margrethe (Lena) Pedersdatter, born in 1862 married Anders STUBSVE, born in 1858.
Have info to share if anyone seeking on Peder Johnson descendants in US.
Upcoming trip to Norway in May and seeking suggestions on best/quickest way to try to find any relatives to meet while on trip?
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Carra Johnson |
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Borge
Veteran Moderator
Norway
1297 Posts |
Posted - 13/04/2005 : 18:18:19
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| Some of my wife's ancestors came from the Stubbsve farm in Rissa. if you can provide some more names I can check for a connection. Her great-great- grandmother's name was Oline Stubbsve, but I don't know if this is the same Oline as the one you have. |
Børge Solem |
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carraj
Medium member
USA
107 Posts |
Posted - 13/04/2005 : 23:02:36
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Thanks for the response! Here is everything I know about her at this point ... (Should what I have listed as "Rissen" actually be "Rissa"?)
Olina Margrethe (Lena) PEDERSDATTER was born in 1862 in Rissen, Norway. She appeared in the census in 1865 in Norway with her father and mother, information on them below. Age in 1865 Norway census listed as 4. She also appeared in the census in 1900 in Norway, with her husband, Anders STUBSVE, born in 1858 in Rissen, Norway. In 1900 Norway Census, Anders occupation is listed as "Tommermand" ( carpenter, framer, timber cruiser). Arbeider (laborer, worker) for "egen Regning" (his own bill).
(My Great-Grandparents) Peder JOHNSON and Olina (Oline) PEDERSDATTER are PARENTS of Olina Margrethe (Lena) PEDERSDATTER STUBSVE.
Peder JOHNSON appeared in the census in 1865 in Norway with his wife, Olina PEDERSDATTER, and 5 children. Age in 1865 Norway census listed as 37. "Fodested" (Birthplace) is listed as the church clerical district of Stadsbygdens Prgj for Peder, Olina, and all 5 children listed in the census, through Karen Martha. Stadsbygd is also where they are all still living at the time of the census. Peder died in 1885 in Rissen, Norway. He is purported to have been born in Verdalen, Norway. (Don't have proof of that yet.)
Olina (Oline) PEDERSDATTER (daughter of Peder HEGLEAND and Martha) was born on 15 Dec 1833 in Norway. Age listed as 34 in 1865 Norway Census. Listed as "hans Kone" (his wife). She died of cancer of stomach, which she had for 2 years, (according to death certificate) on 8 Jan 1912 in family home, with no physician in attendance, Benville Township, Beltrami County, Minnesota. She was buried on 16 Jan 1912 in Valle Cemetery, Benville Township, Beltrami County, Minnesota. |
Carra Johnson |
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carraj
Medium member
USA
107 Posts |
Posted - 17/04/2005 : 07:07:32
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Lot of Solems in my area in North Central Montana ... any relation?
I have not been able to track Peder Johnson family back further than 1865,
nor had any luck trying to find the farm name listed anyway other than 1865 Census.
Have not been able to find a written record of the children born after 1865 ...
Nor a record of any of the members of the family members who immigrated, in the ships records
I know it is most likely I'm looking in the wrong places ... in reading through the posts here, it seems there are many who may be able to suggest the best locations to try further, and I would appreciate any guidance.
Any idea yet on whether my Stubsve's may be the same as your wife's Stubbsve folks?
Thank you for a great site! |
Carra Johnson |
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Borge
Veteran Moderator
Norway
1297 Posts |
Posted - 17/04/2005 : 08:41:29
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| I have not been able to check it out yet, but will be talking to a sister of my wife's grandmother who has geat knowledge of the family on that side. |
Børge Solem |
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Borge
Veteran Moderator
Norway
1297 Posts |
Posted - 18/04/2005 : 22:51:39
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| We have been discussing the question today, and we think we have a connection, but we are having some problems sorting it out. It might help if you let us know your line back to Peder Johnsen and Olina Pedersdatter. |
Børge Solem |
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carraj
Medium member
USA
107 Posts |
Posted - 19/04/2005 : 07:53:50
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Sure ... have not included children except for my own grandfather, but if you need something different, just holler. I have no record yet of children for Stubsve if there were any. And as noted before, have no official record in Norway of the children born to Peder and Olina Pedersdatter after the 1865 census. What record I have is taken from 1900-1920 US Census records which listed birth and emigration years. Thanks!
1-Peder JOHNSON (abt 1828-1885)
+Olina (Oline) PEDERSDATTER (Dec 15, 1833-Jan 8, 1912)
. . . . . . . . . . 2-Methe Maria PEDERSDATTER (1856-)
. . . . . . . . . . +Ole SVE (1855-)
. . . . . . . . . . 2-Julie Paulina PEDERSDATTER (abt 1858-)
. . . . . . . . . . +Paul A KRAGNES (1855-Jan 16, 1927)
. . . . . . . . . . 2-Johan August PEDERSON (abt 1859-)
. . . . . . . . . . 2-Olina Margrethe (Lena) PEDERSDATTER (1862-)
. . . . . . . . . . +Anders STUBSVE (1858-)
. . . . . . . . . . 2-Karen Martha PEDERSDATTER (Sep 1864-1909)
. . . . . . . . . . +Ole A KRAGNES (Apr 23, 1858-1915)
. . . . . . . . . . 2-Benhard JOHNSON (Mar 1869-)
. . . . . . . . . . +Kaia M ECKMAN (Sep 1860-)
. . . . . . . . . . 2-Peder Odin (Peter) JOHNSON (Sep 19, 1871-Mar 12, 1950)
. . . . . . . . . . +Julia Eliza LANDRO (Sep 28, 1884-Sep 28, 1947)
. . . . . . . . . . 2-Emelia ("Emelie") JOHNSON (1873-Jun 8, 1913)
. . . . . . . . . . +Ole LANDRO (-)
. . . . . . . . . . 2-Ovedia JOHNSON (1875-)
. . . . . . . . . . +Lars H ROSTVOLD (abt 1858-Jan 31, 1931)
. . . . . . . . . . 2-Martin Ole JOHNSON (Oct 2, 1877-Mar 19, 1963)
. . . . . . . . . . +Petra MIKKELSON (Mar 17, 1883-Apr 29, 1918)
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3-Norton Orvis JOHNSON (Apr 3, 1911-Dec 25, 1968)
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . +Mary Frances WINTER (Feb 15, 1924-1976)
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4-Carra Louise JOHNSON (Dec 15, 1946-)
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Carra Johnson |
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Borge
Veteran Moderator
Norway
1297 Posts |
Posted - 30/04/2005 : 15:52:16
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I sent you 2 pictures of the old house on Nøstbrettingen where Peder and Olia lives, I hope you received it. Here is some information handed to me by my neighbor Andres Myran:
Peder Johnsen Vifstad born in Tydalen, d. Jan. 10 - 1886. In connection with the marriage the church record says he was born in Tydalen and that he was 26 years of age, in connection with his death the church records says he was born in Stjørdalen in 1827
married Sept. 22 - 1856 to
Oline Pedersdatter Haugen (Reinshaugen) b. Dec. 17 - 1833
The known children:
1. Mette Marie Pedersdatter b. Dec. 30 - 1856
m. Dec. 12 - 1882 to
Ole Andreas Johannesen Bustadsve b. Jan. 4 - 1855
Children:
a. Oline Margrethe Olsdatter b. May 11 - 1884
b. Petra Julie Olsdatter b. May 13 - 1886
It is told that this family moved from Rissa to Trondheim, where Ole Andreas worked as a master builder. I will try to trace this family a little further.
2. Karen Martha Pedersdatter b. June 18 - 1862
m. Dec. 30 - 1884 to
Anders Olsen Stubsve b. Sept. 9. 1858
It is not known where this family lived
3. Karen Martha Pedersdatter b. Sept. 9 - 1864
4. Bergitte Sofie Pedersdatter b. Dec. 29 - 1866, d. Jan. 7 - 1867
5. Bernhard Severin Pedersen b. Mar. 5. 1868, emigrated to the USA
6. Peder Odin Pedersen b. Sept. 19 - 1871
7. Emelie Pedersdatter b. Oct. 11 - 1875
Oline Pedersdatter Haugen's family:
Parents:
Peder Olsen Hjelmen Haugen b. 1782, d. June 11 - 1843
m. July 8 - 1821 to
Martha Eriksdatter Fævog b. 1794, d. Jan. 22 - 1876
(Martha m. 2: June 22 - 1846 to Even Olsen Hægli b. 1773, d. June 6 - 1859)
Children:
1. Ane Pedersdatter Hjelmen Haugen b. Apr. 8 - 1820, d. Mar. 28 - 1908
m. June 18 - 1844 to
Kristoffer Pedersen Storaunet (I have more info on the descendants of Ane and Kristoffer)
2. Karen Martha Pedersdatter b. Feb. 17 - 1822, d. Sept. 10 - 1822
3. Karen Martha Pedersdatter b. Oct. 29 - 1823, d. Apr. 20 - 1830
4. Malene Pedersdatter b. Nov. 3 - 1826
m. Oct. 28 - 1850 to
Gabriel Jensen Spagmoe b. 1824
5. Ole Pedersen b. July 19 - 1829, d. May 13 - 1830
6. Karen Martha Pedersdatter b. May 26 - 1831, d. Apr. 25 - 1833
7. Oline Pedersdatter
8. Johan Petter Pedersen Halvei b. Feb. 13 - 1836, d. Nov. 3 - 1914
m. Sept. 8 - 1861 to
Ingeborg Anna Skogen Halvei b. Feb. 6 - 1845, d. May 18 - 1920 (I have more info on the descendants of Johan Petter and Inger Anna)
Peder Olsen Hjelmen Hauge's family:
Ole Pedersen Bratset Hjelmen b. Nov. 1754, d. Mar. 29 - 1823
m. 1. July 4 - 1779 to
Anne Jensdatter Esvig Aasan b. June 1749, d. 1780
m. 2. July 15 - 1781 to
Beret (Marit) Eriksdatter Hjelmen Kasseth b. Apr. 2 - 1758, d. July 15 - 1830
Children:
1. Anne Olsdatter b. Nov. 1781, d. Oct. 28 - 1797
2. Peder Olsen Hjelmen Haugen b. Dec. 1782, d. June 11, 1843
3. Inger Olsdatter b. May 1787, d. 1872
m. July 26 - 1812 to
Erik Olsen Pukstad b. 1783, d. 1855
4. Isak Olsen b. July 1787
m. July 19 - 1829 to
Sidsel Olsdatter Dyrendahl b. 1782
5. Ingeborg Olsdatter b. Nov. 1789, d. 1855
m. 1 July 14 - 1831 to
Christopher Larsen Kaarlie b. 1761, d. 1842
m. 2 1844 to
Ole Pedersen Hagemoe b. 1791, d. 1868
6. Erik Olsen Hjelmen b. Oct. 1792, d. Sept. 12 - 1880
m. July 15 - 1819 to
Gjertrud Kristiansdatter Fætten b. Apr. 1796, d. Jule 28 - 1870
7. Dortha (Dordie) Olsdatter b. June 1795
m. May 16 - 1828 to
Jens Andersen Småvigen b. 1797, d. Nov 21 - 1878
8. Ole Olsen b. June 1798, d. July 14 - 1798
9. Anne Olsdatter b. May 1800, d. Nov. 16 - 1800
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Børge Solem |
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carraj
Medium member
USA
107 Posts |
Posted - 01/05/2005 : 00:30:33
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Thank you Borge!! And thanks to your neighbor Andres Myran! This is wonderful information and my family appreciates it so much! I did receive the pictures and have sent you an email back. Thank you for them also ... it is amazing! If I understood you correctly, this is an old house, but not the original house that Peder Johnson family lived in?
Are the "Church Records" where this information exists available by Internet access somewhere (just because I've been searching long where I know to look doesn't mean it isn't there!) or only by personally searching the physical records themselves? Would it be possible to obtain the exact source citation that should be used to document the records from which this information was obtained? I would be glad to do this myself if that's an option ...
Here is information from 1900 Norway Census about the family
Mette Marie Pedersdatter - Ole Andreas Johannesen Bustadsve
Methe Maria PEDERSDATTER (1856-)
. . . . . . . . . . +Ole SVE (1855-)
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3-Margrethe SVE (1884-)
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3-Petra SVE (1886-)
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3-Sofie SVE (1888-)
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3-Olefine SVE (1890-)
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3-Olga SVE (1897-)
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3-Jenny SVE (1899-)
Maria's name listed in 1900 Census as "Marie", and occupation as "Sydame" (Dressmaker).
Ole's occupation listed as a "Bygmester" (Master builder).
Source: 1900 Norway Census - telling for 1601 Trondhjem, post 24529-24598, Trondhjem, Husliste 28, Kretsnr 65, Gatenavn Ovre Mollenberg Gade, Matr. nr. 53, Vaningshus Vaaningshus Leiegaard, Sidebygninger Baggaard, Ubebodd N, Etasje 2, Beboelse 14, Kvist 4, Personlister 14.
Regarding the Peder Johnsen Vifstad children, there are some slight differences which I will work on exploring, but which you can pass on to Andres Myran. The listing is completely sourced with official documents, there are no "guesses" here. I do have the information on descendants also if he would care to have it for his work.:
. . . . . . . . . . Methe Maria PEDERSDATTER (1856-) (SVE - see family above)
. . . . . . . . . . Julie Paulina PEDERSDATTER (abt 1858-)
. . . . . . . . . . Johan August PEDERSON (abt 1859-)
. . . . . . . . . . Olina Margrethe (Lena) PEDERSDATTER (1862-) (STUBSVE - see family above)
. . . . . . . . . . Karen Martha PEDERSDATTER (Sep 1864-1909) (there is no record of two "Karen"s)
. . . . . . . . . . Bernhard S. JOHNSON (Mar 1869-)
. . . . . . . . . . Peder Odin (Peter) JOHNSON (Sep 19, 1871-Mar 12, 1950)
. . . . . . . . . . Emelia ("Emelie") JOHNSON (1873-Jun 8, 1913)
. . . . . . . . . . Ovedia JOHNSON (1875-)
. . . . . . . . . . Martin Ole JOHNSON (Oct 2, 1877-Mar 19, 1963)
We are so glad to know of the missing child, Bergitte Sofie Pedersdatter b. Dec. 29 - 1866, d. Jan. 7 - 1867.
All children except for Methe Maria and Oline Margrethe emigrated to Minnesota, in case Anders wishes to note that in his notes. And again, if he would like to have everything we have, we will gladly give it to him, along with source citations. THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU!!
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Carra Johnson |
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Jo Anne Sadler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
1100 Posts |
Posted - 01/05/2005 : 02:45:17
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The microfilm church records are available for rent at a local Family History Center:
click here
I really doubt there is anything available on the Internet, someone has to sit down and input all this stuff, no one wants to pay for the information so you know how that goes. |
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carraj
Medium member
USA
107 Posts |
Posted - 01/05/2005 : 07:17:36
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| Thank you much for the information JoAnne, that's very helpful!! I just this past week found the same reference at familyhistory.org and have it on my list to order on my next visit to FHC ... I am fortunate enough to have one just a couple miles from me and have spent many, many hours there. I feel as though I may have looked at some of these records before, but not been knowledgeable enough to recognize what I was seeing. I have learned much on NorwayHeritage site the past three weeks from reading all the helpful instruction that is so generously shared! It has given me an understanding that I was previously lacking, and I'm sure that's true of most other newer visitors. Thank you for sharing your extremely helpful article on New York passenger records that I found and read last evening on this website. The direction that you provide in that article could have saved me long hours of searching if I had read it years ago!! |
Carra Johnson |
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Borge
Veteran Moderator
Norway
1297 Posts |
Posted - 01/05/2005 : 08:55:21
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quote:
Originally posted by carraj
Thank you Borge!! And thanks to your neighbor Andres Myran! This is wonderful information and my family appreciates it so much! I did receive the pictures and have sent you an email back. Thank you for them also ... it is amazing! If I understood you correctly, this is an old house, but not the original house that Peder Johnson family lived in?
Would it be possible to obtain the exact source citation that should be used to document the records from which this information was obtained? I would be glad to do this myself if that's an option ...
. . . . . . . . . . Karen Martha PEDERSDATTER (Sep 1864-1909) (there is no record of two "Karen"s) We are so glad to know of the missing child, Bergitte Sofie Pedersdatter b. Dec. 29 - 1866, d. Jan. 7 - 1867.
The house is believed to be the old house where they lived. It used to be surrounded by more trees then today, a small forest named the "Johnsen forest". The owner of the house is Olaf Engvik, he is a historian and lives in California. He has written some good book on Norwegian-American history and been decorated by the Norwegian King Olav V for his work to same old historic ships. He might be able to tell exactly when the house was built. I did not get your mail, it is something strange going on with my mail, seams that the filters that is supposed to delete spam and viruses is also deleting other kinds of mail.
The material that Andreas gave me was done by some local historians many years ago, and they did not have a very strict practice of citing the sources.
It must have been hard for the Peder Olsen and Martha Eriksdatter to see so many children die. Karen Martha seams to have been a popular name with Olina's family, but did not bring fortune to all the bearers. |
Børge Solem |
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carraj
Medium member
USA
107 Posts |
Posted - 01/05/2005 : 22:15:52
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Thank you so much for the additional information on the house Borge! In my email that didn't reach you, in addition to many expressions of heartfelt thanks for the great pictures and information, were two questions ... would it be possible to send the pictures as a jpg or other "attachment" to an email rather than inside the body of the email? I am unable to extract and save them from the email for some reason. And are they pictures taken with a digital camera or 35mm poto scanned in? I would like to be able to print them in a family history book I'm compiling for a reunion in August. (Naturally the higher the resolution the better, and I'm sure I may have the answer if you might be able to send them as attachments.)
I agree with you, it was heart-breaking to read of Peder Olsen and Martha's loss of 3 "Karen Martha"s. I was surprised that daughter Olina chose to name one of her children Karen Martha after such a history of the name. However, a joyful note ... Although Peder Johnsen and Olina's Karen Martha also died fairly early in life, she was married and had 11 children before her death, less than a year after her last child was born. Karen Johnsen and Ole Kragnes/Krogness's many, many descendents are good folks and fine leaders of their communities in Minnesota and elsewhere. So in the end, the "Karen Martha" name finally prevailed, a true honor to the three aunts who bore the name before her!
When I referred to there being no record of 2 Karen Martha's, I was referring to Peder Johnsen and Olina's family. Andrus's information had a second Karen Martha in that family as marrying Anders STUBSVE -- it was actually Olina Margrethe (Lena), that you thought might be related to your wife ancestors. There was only the one Karen Martha in Peder Johnsen and Olina's family.
Jo Anne Sadler kindly pointed out to me where I can pursue further Andrus's good information. Thank you again for everything! |
Carra Johnson |
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Borge
Veteran Moderator
Norway
1297 Posts |
Posted - 01/05/2005 : 22:41:55
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I took a few pictures of the house with my digital camera, I'll try sending them again.
Krognes is also a Rissa farm name, do you know if your Krognes relatives were also from Rissa? |
Børge Solem |
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carraj
Medium member
USA
107 Posts |
Posted - 02/05/2005 : 05:34:16
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Yes, the Krognes relatives may well be from the Rissa area. I have found many Krognes in that area in my research, but have not yet been able to tie them together with Karen's Ole.
Ole A. Krognes emigrated in 1882. Karen's year of emigration is listed as 1889, but I haven't been able to find her on the ship's lists. It seems that the year of emigration was likely earlier, BECAUSE
The first son of Karen Martha and Ole Krognes was born Jan 1888 in Minnesota.
Karen and Ole were married Mar 1889 in Minnesota.
At first, I thought that the oldest son must have belonged to Ole A before he and Karen were married. But in the 1900 U.S. Census, Karen's age is listed as 35; number of children born 7, and number of children still living 7. (And there are only 7 children listed in the family at that time, including the oldest son.) The oldest son is listed as 12 years of age, and the number of years of their marriage is listed as 11.
So it is one of the mysteries I am still researching ... if you have any suggestions, I'd be glad to hear them. |
Carra Johnson |
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carraj
Medium member
USA
107 Posts |
Posted - 07/05/2005 : 21:59:09
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Hello Borge, (spelled incorrectly only because I can't make my keyboard make the right letter! -- I hold down the alt key, and type in 0248 but when I release the alt key, nothing is there. Any suggestions?)
I was glad to see you today, I wanted to follow up on three things from our previous postings ... 1) Do you know whether your neighbor Andres Myran ever located the information he thought he remembered about my great-grandfather Peder Johnsen being a glazier? ( "My neighbor did not have his papers at hand, but he thinks Peder Johnson was from Selbu, a glazier.") Andres did very kindly pass on through you two references to Peder's birthplace. Am still searching for information on Peder and stained glass windows and had hoped there might be a clue in Andres's history.
2) In the information you kindly relayed from Andres in the previous posting, there were two references to additional information. Were those Andres's references or your own? "(I have more info on the descendants of Ane and Kristoffer)" and "(I have more info on the descendants of Johan Petter and Inger Anna)". If this information is easily passed, I would very much appreciate it. If it is not easily passed, please disregard, as I am sure that as I become more familiar with searching the Church Records, I may be able to find it myself at some point in the future.
3) I noticed in the family of my great-grandmother Oline Pedersdatter Haugen something that I am also noticing in other family members in Norway I am researching, and am wondering what significance it has. Oline's parent's names are: Peder Olsen Hjelmen Haugen and Martha Eriksdatter Fævog. The name of the oldest daughter in the family is recorded as: Ane Pedersdatter Hjelmen Haugen. All of the other daughters, including Oline, are recorded as just their given name and "Pedersdatter". The oldest of two sons is recorded as just his given name, "Ole" and "Pedersen". But the youngest son is recorded as "Johan Petter Pedersen Halvei". This doesn't seem to follow any of the traditional naming practices I've read about so far, and I'm wondering why the difference in not adding additional family or farm names to some of the children? Thanks for any guidance you might be able to give! |
Carra Johnson |
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Johnson, Pedersdatter, Sve, Stubsve, Relatives?
