Christain Tromm

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Printed on: 25/01/2025

Topic:

Topic author: jungfigh
Subject: Christain Tromm
Posted on: 18/01/2007 22:29:53
Message:

Below are the details of my maternal Grandfathers death.

It is believed he travelled to UK (Ramsgate, Kent) at the turn of the 19th century from an unknown Norwegian location. It is also known that he fought on the Western Front in the Great War as a gunner in the Royal Artillery.
I have been told that Tromm translates into English, or was changed to Thompson. There is also a memorial plaque dedicated to 'Campanula' in the Seaman's Church, Royal Harbour Ramsgate. Interestingly my Grandfather's name is shewn : Christine Thompson.
Any information would be sincerely appreciated in helping me find my Norwegian relatives.

Name: THOMPSON, CHRISTAIN
Initials: C
Nationality: United Kingdom
Rank: Second Engineer
Regiment/Service: Mercantile Marine
Unit Text: Steam Trawler "Campanula" (Ramsgate)
Age: 37
Date of Death: 28/01/1920
Additional information: Husband of Maude Oliva Thompson (nee Fast), of 6, Florence Terrace, Cannonbury Rd., Ramsgate. Born in Norway.
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Memorial: TOWER HILL MEMORIAL

Replies:

Reply author: Borge
Replied on: 19/01/2007 19:38:36
Message:

It would be a great advantage if you could provide date and year of birth.

Reply author: jungfigh
Replied on: 19/01/2007 22:09:45
Message:

Thank-you Borge.

I will post it here when I manage to obtain it.

Reply author: Borge
Replied on: 19/01/2007 23:25:42
Message:

And are you sure the name was Tromm? It is not a known name in Norway. However, there is one candidate in the 1900 census nemed Kristian Thomm, he was a sailor born in 1881, living in Bergen (a ships cook on a steamship at the time) .

Reply author: jungfigh
Replied on: 21/01/2007 10:24:09
Message:

That's a very interesting point Borge. Possibly 'lost' in the translation? My own Surname over the years has been altered a great deal. In coincidence the time-frame fits. Below is an extract from the 1901 Census of England & Wales which shews my Nan as being 15years.

View Name Age Where born Administrative county Civil parish Occupation

Maud Fast 15 Kent Ramsgate Kent St Lawrence Gener Serv Domestic

I have searched the same Census for Christian. (name variations, etc. but with no result)

With regard to Kristian Thomm: Is there any record of him emigrating to England? I do accept that all that time ago literally thousands of sea-farers 'jumped ship' on distant shores in order to create a new life/Identity.

I would be very grateful of any further advice you can offer me.

Reply author: jungfigh
Replied on: 09/09/2013 11:54:03
Message:

I have just received this from Military Records UK: It states that Grandfather was serving in trawler Campanula when killed. This is correct, but he served throughout WW1 as a private in the Royal Artillery, on the Western Front, wounded but survived and then in 1920 as an engineer in Campanula the trawler dragged inboard a mine which killed all on board. A commemorative tablet to the crew is displayed in the chapel of 'The Home For Smackship Boys' in the corner of the inner basin, Ramsgate harbour in Kent, England. Am still trying to find my grandfathers place of birth in Norway...HELP PLEASE..!

First Name: Christain
Initials: C
Surname: Thompson
DOB: Circa 1883
Age: 37
Nationality: British
Date of Death: 28/01/1920
Information: HUSBAND OF MAUDE OLIVA THOMPSON (NEE FAST), OF 6, FLORENCE TERRACE, CANNONBURY RD., RAMSGATE. BORN IN NORWAY.
Rank: Second Engineer
Campaign Medals:
Victory Medal

Like many service personnel of World War One, Christain Thompson was entitled to the Victory medal, also called the Inter Allied Victory Medal. This medal was awarded to all who received the 1914 Star or 1914-15 Star and, with certain exceptions, to those who received the British War Medal. It was never awarded alone. These three medals were sometimes irreverently referred to as Pip, Squeak and Wilfred.

Eligibility for this award consisted of having been mobilised, fighting, having served in any of the theatres of operations, or at sea, between midnight 4th/5th August, 1914, and midnight, 11th/12th November, 1918. Women who served in any of the various military organisations in a theatre of operations were also eligible.



British War Medal

As with many Armed Forces personnel, Christain Thompson was entitled to the British War Medal for service in World War One. This British Empire campaign medal was issued for services between 5th August 1914 and 11th November 1918.

The medal was automatically awarded in the event of death on active service before the completion of this period.


Service: British Army
Regiment: Mercantile Marine
Mercantile Marine during World War 1

More information about Mercantile Marine

Click here for more information on Mercantile Marine

Battalion: Steam Trawler "Campanula" (Ramsgate)
Commemorated: Britain

Order a personalised memorial scroll of Christain Thompson to display or give as a gift.

Order a customised memorial scroll to display or give as a gift.

Site Map

Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 09/09/2013 14:21:56
Message:

Never say never.

Here is the Kristian Thomm a sailor born abt 1881 in Bergen, Norway, mentioned by Borge earlier:

http://digitalarkivet.uib.no/cgi-win/WebCens.exe?slag=visbase&sidenr=2&filnamn=f01301&gardpostnr=11476&personpostnr=53249&merk=53249#ovre

Reply author: Kåarto
Replied on: 09/09/2013 14:48:10
Message:

Christian Thommassen/Thommesen ?

Kåre

Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 09/09/2013 15:17:18
Message:

That seems likely since he's the only one with that surname in 1900.

Here is a possible in the 1885 census of Bergen, Christian Johan Tønneson b. 1883 Bergen:

http://digitalarkivet.uib.no/cgi-win/webcens.exe?slag=visbase&sidenr=76&filnamn=F81201&gardpostnr=36552&merk=36552#ovre

Here's his record in baptisms in Bergen 1816-1894:
Lp.nr. Year Christened Church / parish
62533 95 1883 1208 Nykirken
Role Employment Lead Name Surname Sex Housing Born date Born year
187147 Children Christian Johan m 0307
187148 Father Malersvendr Nicolai Tonnesen 9-57 d 1851
187 149 Mother Christiane Bertine Nilsen 1852

Reply author: eibache
Replied on: 09/09/2013 15:28:05
Message:

A candidate, Christian Thomassen, Buhaven, Eide, 1900.

Bapt record #11.

Reply author: AntonH
Replied on: 09/09/2013 16:40:03
Message:

Those with a name similar to Kristian Thomm in 1910 Census. None under Christ** Number 3 would seem to be the only one with a birth year near the person the poster is searching for, and maybe the same person posted above by Einar.

Municipality Name Occupation Year of birth Place of birth Name of farm
Ålesund Thommasgaard, Kristine Kringstad tjenestepige 07.08.1894 t Øvre Strandgt 19
Roan Thommass., Kristian Gaardbruker selveier Fisker 03.12.1877 t Sumstad
Øyestad Thommass., Kristian offentlig underhold 1882 Eide Solberg Asylbygning
Eidsvoll Thommass., Kristine husstel 05.05.1843 t Råholdt
Trondheim Thommass., Kristine Sydame 17.11.1861 Komagfjord Gyldenløvesgate 23
Vardø Thommessen, Kristian Fisker 29.05.1866 t Krist. IV gate 140

Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 09/09/2013 17:11:13
Message:

Going back to rare name Trom / Tromm, here is the death of one woman a widow in 1933:

8 1410 2110
NAME Enkja Kari Knutsdtr. Trom
BIRTH DATE & PLACE 1851 0512 Myklebust, Uskedal
RESIDENCE / SEX/ DEATH YEAR Sunde f 1933

Link to Deaths in Husnes:
http://digitalarkivet.no/cgi-win/webcens.exe?slag=visbase&filnamn=HUSNES&personpostnr=771&merk=771

Written this way, unless there's an error of some kind, would indicate she was on a farm named Trom

Here she is in the 1910 Norwegian census, living on Tromm in Kvinnhered:

http://digitalarkivet.arkivverket.no/ft/person/pf01036671005396

Here is Kari Knudsdatter's baptism #125;
Source information: Hordaland county, Kvinnherad, Parish register (official) nr. A 7 (1843-1853), Birth and baptism records 1851, page 112.
Permanent pagelink: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=8286&idx_id=8286&uid=ny&idx_side=-117

Living with her family on Møklebust in 1865:
http://digitalarkivet.uib.no/cgi-win/WebCens.exe?slag=visbase&sidenr=2&filnamn=f61224&gardpostnr=559&merk=559#ovre

Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 09/09/2013 17:15:03
Message:

For the querist, have you gotten Christian's marriage record? It might contain a firmer birthdate or other useful information.

What about an obituary for Christian--certainly a tragic event like this would have been covered in the papers?

Reply author: Kåarto
Replied on: 09/09/2013 18:51:57
Message:

quote:

---

Originally posted by lyndal40

Those with a name similar to Kristian Thomm in 1910 Census. None under Christ** Number 3 would seem to be the only one with a birth year near the person the poster is searching for, and maybe the same person posted above by Einar.

Municipality Name Occupation Year of birth Place of birth Name of farm
Ålesund Thommasgaard, Kristine Kringstad tjenestepige 07.08.1894 t Øvre Strandgt 19
Roan Thommass., Kristian Gaardbruker selveier Fisker 03.12.1877 t Sumstad
Øyestad Thommass., Kristian offentlig underhold 1882 Eide Solberg Asylbygning
Eidsvoll Thommass., Kristine husstel 05.05.1843 t Råholdt
Trondheim Thommass., Kristine Sydame 17.11.1861 Komagfjord Gyldenløvesgate 23
Vardø Thommessen, Kristian Fisker 29.05.1866 t Krist. IV gate 140

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Reply author: jwiborg
Replied on: 09/09/2013 19:24:21
Message:

His wife?

Maud Olivia Fast (1886-1976) (sitting)

Jan Peter

Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 09/09/2013 19:33:44
Message:

Hmm. Looks like she has a ring on the third finger of her left hand, too.

Reply author: jungfigh
Replied on: 09/09/2013 22:39:01
Message:

Dear Mr Borg.

That is my Maternal Grandmother (sitting) in the picture you posted. I don't know who the other lady is. One discrepancy: my Nan died about 1960. I was about 15 years old.

I would like to thank all contributors in my search. I will scrutinise them all tomorrow...an early start beckons. Thank-you all.

Reply author: jwiborg
Replied on: 09/09/2013 22:58:42
Message:

The photo was found in an album by David J Morgan, who name her "Great great Aunt Maud Fast".
You should pursue their marriage record.

Jan Peter

Reply author: jungfigh
Replied on: 10/09/2013 06:41:52
Message:

Thank-you Jan.

Reply author: eibache
Replied on: 10/09/2013 07:46:09
Message:

Hilda Olivia Fast - the one standing she is born in Sweden.

Reply author: jwiborg
Replied on: 10/09/2013 08:49:02
Message:

quote:

---

Originally posted by eibache

Hilda Olivia Fast - the one standing she is born in Sweden.

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Reply author: jungfigh
Replied on: 11/09/2013 11:16:47
Message:

quote:

---

Originally posted by jwiborg

The photo was found in an album by David J Morgan, who name her "Great great Aunt Maud Fast".
You should pursue their marriage record.

Jan Peter

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Reply author: jwiborg
Replied on: 11/09/2013 19:38:38
Message:

quote:

---

Originally posted by jungfigh

Addressed to David J Morgan:
I note in your flickr postings three photographs mentioning the Venner's...another coincidence..? I had an Aunt Christine known as Chrissie, Maud's 3rd child. She would have been born in the early 1900's. My point, She married a John Venner. I believe they spent some time in India. When coming back to England Auntie Chrissie had TB (tuberculosis). She died of this disease in 1947. She is buried in Ramsgate cemetery. (My Mother Daisy and I regularly placed flowers on her grave). I believe she also had a son John..? What is your connection with the Venner's David...are we related by marriage..? Interesting..!

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Reply author: jungfigh
Replied on: 12/09/2013 06:26:26
Message:

Thank-you Jan Peter. It was a stab in the dark really hoping a kind soul (you) would assist.
I find this site fascinating and members so ready to help a novice like me.

Thank-you all.

Reply author: jungfigh
Replied on: 12/09/2013 06:45:07
Message:

The Commonwealth War Graves Commission notice of my Grandfathers death and memorial.


http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/2969140/THOMPSON,%20CHRISTAIN

Reply author: jungfigh
Replied on: 12/09/2013 12:10:33
Message:

The Sailors Church in Ramsgate harbour. My Granfathers Boat Campanula is shown on a tablet near the end of the video>

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8PjgRfLyl4k

Reply author: jungfigh
Replied on: 13/09/2013 10:31:36
Message:

The next question: Can anybody Identify my possible Norwegian relatives (in Norway) from the information so far..or at least point me in the right direction..?

I will be so grateful.

Reply author: eibache
Replied on: 13/09/2013 11:22:36
Message:

It is neccesary (or a big advantage) to have date and year of birth.

Reply author: jungfigh
Replied on: 13/09/2013 11:33:04
Message:

Einar: Thank-you. I'm investigating that.

Reply author: jungfigh
Replied on: 13/09/2013 19:29:23
Message:

At present best is 1883...Norway.

Reply author: jwiborg
Replied on: 13/09/2013 20:06:12
Message:

quote:

---

Originally posted by jungfigh

The next question: Can anybody Identify my possible Norwegian relatives (in Norway) from the information so far..or at least point me in the right direction..?

I will be so grateful.

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Reply author: Kåarto
Replied on: 13/09/2013 23:30:09
Message:

Christian/Kristian Thomassen/Thomesen/Thomsen born Norway ca. 1883.

- April 29. 1883. Bremnes parish, Møre and Romsdal county. Parents; Kristian Thomassen and Barbro Kristiansdatter
- August 24.1883. Kristiansand town, Vest-Agder county. Parents; Ole Thomassen and Lovise Emilie Rosanowsky
- Oct. 12. 1884. Ringebu parish, Oppland county. Parenst; Torsten Tomassen and Kristine Iversdatter
- March 24. 1881. Bremnes parish, Møre and Romsdal county. Parents; Henning Thomassen and Ingeborg Johanna Elida Kramer
- July 23. 1882 Halden town, Østfold county. Parents; Thomas Marinius Bernhard Thomesen and Trine Amalia Harby
- Oct. 18. 1881 Fjell parish, Hordaland county. Parents; Iver Thomassen and Martha Olsdatter
- Dec. 2. 1884 Austre Moland parish, Vest-Agder county. Parents; Hans Kristian Thomsen and Benedikte Gurine Johannesen
- Oct. 20. 1881 Tomter parish, Østfold county. Parents; Thorvald Thomassen and Tale Sørensdatter
- Sept. 15. 1885 Oslo. Parents; Rasmus Thomsen and Johanne Conradsen

Kåre
-

Reply author: jungfigh
Replied on: 14/09/2013 08:09:09
Message:

My Auntie Marge (the 4th of Maud's daughter's) had it documented as such in an old journal, like my Aunt, long gone, unfortunately no date of his birth. She also had written down that Grandfather hailed from Lauden Vordner. Norway. I believe there is no such place.

Reply author: jwiborg
Replied on: 14/09/2013 09:22:51
Message:

You are right, there is no place in Norway by that name, so there are two possibilities; either you have read it wrong, or your Aunt have written it down as it sounded or how she remembered it orally.

Are you absolutely sure it says "Lauden Vordner", or is there room for interpretation of your Aunt's handwriting? Could you provide a scan of the text?

Jan Peter

Reply author: jungfigh
Replied on: 14/09/2013 09:44:41
Message:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kåarto

Christian/Kristian Thomassen/Thomesen/Thomsen born Norway ca. 1883.

- April 29. 1883. Bremnes parish, Møre and Romsdal county. Parents; Kristian Thomassen and Barbro Kristiansdatter
- August 24.1883. Kristiansand town, Vest-Agder county. Parents; Ole Thomassen and Lovise Emilie Rosanowsky
- Oct. 12. 1884. Ringebu parish, Oppland county. Parenst; Torsten Tomassen and Kristine Iversdatter
- March 24. 1881. Bremnes parish, Møre and Romsdal county. Parents; Henning Thomassen and Ingeborg Johanna Elida Kramer
- July 23. 1882 Halden town, Østfold county. Parents; Thomas Marinius Bernhard Thomesen and Trine Amalia Harby
- Oct. 18. 1881 Fjell parish, Hordaland county. Parents; Iver Thomassen and Martha Olsdatter
- Dec. 2. 1884 Austre Moland parish, Vest-Agder county. Parents; Hans Kristian Thomsen and Benedikte Gurine Johannesen
- Oct. 20. 1881 Tomter parish, Østfold county. Parents; Thorvald Thomassen and Tale Sørensdatter
- Sept. 15. 1885 Oslo. Parents; Rasmus Thomsen and Johanne Conradsen

Kåre
-

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Reply author: jungfigh
Replied on: 14/09/2013 09:50:21
Message:

quote:

---

Originally posted by jwiborg

You are right, there is no place in Norway by that name, so there are two possibilities; either you have read it wrong, or your Aunt have written it down as it sounded or how she remembered it orally.

Are you absolutely sure it says "Lauden Vordner", or is there room for interpretation of your Aunt's handwriting? Could you provide a scan of the text?

Jan Peter

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Reply author: jwiborg
Replied on: 14/09/2013 10:04:13
Message:

quote:

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Originally posted by jungfigh

Sorry Jan Peter, as said, the journal of my Aunt went missing. On her death I managed her estate If I had come across such a mine of information I would have kept it. The two possibilities you mentioned: Could you let me have them and I will attempt a trace from this end. I cannot impinge on your hospitality. Everything people from Norway have sent is proving invaluable. I again Thank-You all.

I remain, yours sincerely,
Derek.

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Reply author: jungfigh
Replied on: 14/09/2013 10:28:21
Message:

Sorry again Jan Peter.

I remember it as written when my Auntie Marge shewed me the Journal. Perhaps it was lost in translation by Auntie.

I recall telephoning the Norwegian Embassy in London at the time, some 30 years ago when I worked in the Capital, with that given name...obviously it came up negative. (well before the time of PC's and this wonderful World Wide Web).

I've 'the bit between my teeth' now and time is no problem,... usually. I am determined to get to the bottom of this conundrum.

I remain, yours sincerely,
Derek. ;o)

Reply author: jwiborg
Replied on: 14/09/2013 11:10:44
Message:

Any chance you could locate their marriage certificate? Any idea of where and when they could have married?

Jan Peter

Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 14/09/2013 11:38:04
Message:

Derek, what about your gran? Did she remarry? Where did she live? Do you have a copy of her obituary or other documents about her??

The clothing she's wearing in the picture looks to be mid to late 19 teens (Belle epoque). Do you have any pictures of her and her children?

Were there only 2 children--your parent and sister Chrissie or were there more? What do you know about them, like the place where they were born, where they lived, that sort of thing?

Sorry, so many questions...

Reply author: jungfigh
Replied on: 14/09/2013 12:07:36
Message:

quote:

---

Originally posted by jwiborg

Any chance you could locate their marriage certificate? Any idea of where and when they could have married?

Jan Peter

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Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 14/09/2013 12:08:47
Message:

Long shot on the name of the place. What if the v is a non-speakers attempt to deal with fj?

The list of name places in my KNA Kart- og Reise- Handbok
(sorry no date) has this "Loddefjord." I haven't actually found it on the map but the general location given for it locates it somewhere near Bergen but south of Bergen, by Sund, Fana, and Os....

In the 1900 Norwegian census there are 8 farms called Loddefjord in Askøen.

Here's what familysearch says about Loddefjord:
"Microfilm of parish registers available at the Family History Library for Laksevåg clerical district. Contains the parish registers of Laksevåg and Loddefjord parishes. They were separated from Askøy clerical district in 1915. For earlier records see Askøy and Fjell clerical districts. Records available from 1875-1926. "

Wikipedia describes Loddefjord as a suburb of Bergen.

Reply author: jungfigh
Replied on: 14/09/2013 12:18:36
Message:

quote:

---

Originally posted by jkmarler

Derek, what about your gran? Did she remarry? Where did she live? Do you have a copy of her obituary or other documents about her??

The clothing she's wearing in the picture looks to be mid to late 19 teens (Belle epoque). Do you have any pictures of her and her children?

Were there only 2 children--your parent and sister Chrissie or were there more? What do you know about them, like the place where they were born, where they lived, that sort of thing?

Sorry, so many questions...

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Reply author: Kåarto
Replied on: 14/09/2013 13:15:53
Message:

Lauden Vordne
To translate from Norwegian to English is not easy nor to attemt to understand the origin since the pronunciation of the Englsh and Norwegian alphabet is quite different.

I have listened to Norskklassen and twisted my ears

Worth a try.
Lauden ?? Lodalen?? - dalen means valley - Lovalley.
There are several Lodalen in Norway.

Vordner is a hard nut to crack at this point

If we could solve one of the names the solution is perhaps "Stumling close" (A Norwegian saying)

Kåre

Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 14/09/2013 13:27:07
Message:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kåarto

Lauden Vordne
"Stumling close" (A Norwegian saying)
Kåre

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Reply author: jwiborg
Replied on: 14/09/2013 13:31:24
Message:

quote:

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Originally posted by jungfigh

That is in hand Jan Peter. Of course any results will be published here.
Sincerely, Derek. ;o)

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Reply author: Kåarto
Replied on: 14/09/2013 14:19:10
Message:

quote:

---

Originally posted by jkmarler

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kåarto

Lauden Vordne
"Stumling close" (A Norwegian saying)
Kåre

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You mean we might stumble & fall into it?

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Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 14/09/2013 14:26:08
Message:

If you estimate 2 years /child (most familes will average that over time) and if the 7 kiddies & Dad picture was taken late during WWI (say 1917-1918), so subtracting 14 years roughly marriage date as early as 1903 or 1904 as late as 1910.

Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 14/09/2013 14:28:35
Message:

What about Christian's army enlistment papers?

Reply author: jungfigh
Replied on: 14/09/2013 17:43:56
Message:

I tried that route.
During WW2 the bulk of WW1 Army service records were transferred to one of the home counties for 'safe keeping'...on returning from a bombing raid the German planes randomly discharged any bombs not used.
Yes. A bomb hit the storage facility where my Granfather's and millions of others were stored. an amount of which were burnt beyond recovery, his being one of them..!

So as you can see...not an easy exercise, but, I'll get there with all the help from you lovely people.

Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 14/09/2013 18:15:18
Message:

What company owned the Campanula when your grandfather worked on it?

Reply author: jwiborg
Replied on: 14/09/2013 19:55:57
Message:

The Steam Trawler CAMPANULA from Isle of Thanet Steam Trawler Company sunk after trawled a mine on 28 Jan 1920. 2nd Engineer Christian Thompson was onboard when it hit the mine, and was killed in the accident.
"The woman" Christine Thompson onboard when it sunk it mentioned here...

Census-1911 for Ramsgate, Kent, England:
Name: Cristian Tompson
Age in 1911: 28
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1883
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Norway
Civil Parish: St Lawrence Intra
County/Island: Kent
Country: England
Street Address: 31 Alma Road, Ramsgate
Marital Status: Married
Years Married: 8
Estimated Marriage Year: 1903
Occupation: Timber Merchant
Registration District: Thanet
Registration District Number: 63
Sub-registration District: Ramsgate
ED, institution, or vessel: 24
Household Schedule Number: 395
Piece: 4534
Household Members:
Name Age
Cristian Tompson 28
Maud Tompson 25
Rose Tompson 8
Doris Tompson 5
Crissy Tompson 4
Margie Tompson 2
Daisy Tompson 4/12
Ellen Burton 28
William John Pettit 63

Jan Peter

Reply author: jwiborg
Replied on: 14/09/2013 20:10:27
Message:

What does it say?



Source (Census-1911 for Ramsgate, Kent, England)

EDIT: It looks like it reads "Resident".

Jan Peter

Reply author: jungfigh
Replied on: 14/09/2013 21:26:38
Message:

Invaluable stuff Jan Peter.
Grandfather's name is indeed shewn as Christine on the tablet in the Sailor's Church, Ramsgate harbour. I note also that the census shews Tompson, not Thompson. My two uncles, Tom & Frank had yet to be born. Maud's last two children of 7. With regard the other two people shewn I have never heard of them. Possibly lodgers..? An interesting aside: My Auntie Marge and Mother Daisy always said their Father was a carpenter. His shewn occupation as Timber Merchant possibly confirms their statements.

The puzzle unravels..!

Reply author: jwiborg
Replied on: 14/09/2013 21:47:15
Message:

Rose Malinda Joanna Tompson
Christening: 12 Jul 1905, St. Paul's, Ramsgate, Kent, England
Father's Name: Christine Tompson
Mother's Name: Maud Olivia Tompson

Rose is listed as 8 y.o. in the 1911-census, and should thus have been born in 1903, but is prob. born in 1905.
The census says the parents have been married for 8 years, ie about 1903.
I guess they married in Ramsgate, Kent, England about 1904 (+/- 1 year).

Jan Peter

Reply author: jungfigh
Replied on: 14/09/2013 22:33:01
Message:

I have been in touch with Births Marriages and deaths for Thanet, Kent where St Laurence is a district. I was told they have no record of their marriage. I will recall them giving them information which you supplied a few posts back. I hope that will do the trick for their marriage Cert.

Reply author: jwiborg
Replied on: 14/09/2013 22:42:55
Message:

I was hoping their firstborn child Rose Malinda Joanna was named after maternal and paternal grandmother, but it seems not? It looks like Maud Olivia's mother was named Mary?

Census-1901 for St Lawrence Intra, Kent, England:
Thomas Fast Head 1850 Brixham, Devonshire
Mary A Fast Wife 1852 Ramsgate, Kent
John Fast Son 1883 Ramsgate, Kent
Maud Fast Daughter 1886 Ramsgate, Kent
Thomas Fast Son 1890 Ramsgate, Kent
Stephen Fast Son 1892 Ramsgate, Kent
Robert Fast Son 1894 Ramsgate, Kent
Francis Fast Son 1899 Ramsgate, Kent

Jan Peter

Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 15/09/2013 00:10:13
Message:

Well, that's a baptismal record from a church named St. Paul's, in Ramsgate, perhaps that's where they married as well?

Here is another completely long shot from the 1900 Norwegian census. Searching for persons with "rist" in the first name all forms chosen see below, occupation beginning with "sne" all forms chosen do., birthyear 1883 +/-1 year and last name starting with "t"

fornavn: christ, christan, christen, christens, christiaen, christian, christians, christien, christin, cristen, cristian, krist, kristan, kristean, kristem, kristen, krister, kristian, kristien, kristin, kristinn, kristion, kristtian, kristyen, krristian
yrke: snedker, snedkerarb, snedkerarbeide, snedkerarbeider, snedkerarbejder, snedkerdreng, snedkerdræng, snedkerelev, snedkerer, snedkerfabr, snedkerfabrik, snedkergut, snedkerhaandverk, snedkeri, snedkeriarbeider, snedkering, snedkerlerling, snedkerlærling, snedkerm, snedkermester, snedkermestr, snedkersv, snedkersven, snedkersvend, snedkersvendarb, snedkersvænd, snedkersøn, snedkerverksted, snedkring, sneker, snekerarbeider, snekerlerling, snekerlærling, snekersv, snekersvend, snekker, snekkerarbeider, snekkerfabrik, snekkerlærling, snekkermester, snekkersven, snekkersvend
fodeaar: 1882, 1883, 1884
etternavn: t

Found this one person:
Kristen Gabriels. Tusskvam b. 1883 Ytr Holmedal
http://digitalarkivet.uib.no/cgi-win/WebCens.exe?slag=visbase&sidenr=2&filnamn=f01444&gardpostnr=248&personpostnr=1588&merk=1588#ovre

Kristen Gabriels baptism #11
Source information: Sogn og Fjordane county, Holmedal in Fjaler, Parish register copy nr. B 1 (1865-1894), Birth and baptism records 1883, page 40b-41a.
Permanent pagelink: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=8834&idx_id=8834&uid=ny&idx_side=-42

He's off the table as he went to America in 1906:
http://digitalarkivet.uib.no/cgi-win/webcens.exe?slag=visbase&filnamn=EMIBERG

Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 15/09/2013 04:03:24
Message:

Here is a database in which Maude Fast appears, not much info but the database was recently attended in Aug 2013. Email address supplied for the database owner, you could write to see if he has anything further which he had not yet posted. Also his first name is David...

http://worldconnect.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=measday&id=I4984

Reply author: David Yaw
Replied on: 15/09/2013 12:30:55
Message:

quote:

---

Originally posted by jungfigh

I have been in touch with Births Marriages and deaths for Thanet, Kent where St Laurence is a district. I was told they have no record of their marriage. I will recall them giving them information which you supplied a few posts back. I hope that will do the trick for their marriage Cert.

---

Reply author: jungfigh
Replied on: 15/09/2013 12:39:47
Message:

Thank-you David. Invaluable information. I will act on this.

Would contributors excuse my naivety. I have a single photograph of Maud Fast...after marriage..? and Also a photograph of Christian, In British Army uniform with ALL of their children, possibly pre 1918.

My Question: How can I upload them to this site..?

Reply author: jungfigh
Replied on: 16/09/2013 11:30:57
Message:

Through various contributors I have managed to trace my Grandmother Maud's Birth, Marriage and Death certificates. Hard copies are being despatched from England.

Thank-you all once again for your tremendous input in my quest.

I remain, yours faithfully,

Derek Lawbuary. Malta. G.C.

Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 17/09/2013 05:24:32
Message:

Post pertninent details when they come available, okay?

Reply author: jungfigh
Replied on: 17/09/2013 05:54:16
Message:

Definitely: A delivery date has been given as the 7th October.

Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 17/09/2013 17:09:11
Message:

I haven't been able to eliminate the following Kristian from Løten:

1900 Census last names starting with trøm, the only family with a Kristian of approximately the right birthyear:
http://digitalarkivet.uib.no/cgi-win/WebCens.exe?slag=visbase&sidenr=2&filnamn=f00415&gardpostnr=329&personpostnr=1952&merk=1952#ovre

Kristian Johansen Trømnæs #21, b 23 Dec 1885:
Source information: Hedmark county, Løten, Parish register copy nr. 6 (1892-1909), Confirmation records 1900, page 220.
Permanent pagelink: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=6027&idx_id=6027&uid=ny&idx_side=-211

Trømnæs in 1910:
http://digitalarkivet.arkivverket.no/ft/person/pf01036399005002

I didn't find him in the 1910 census either by birthdate or by name Kristian Johansen. There were 3 or 4 Kristian Johansens in Løten death records but none with a birthdate or year like his. Also doesn't appear to be in the utflyttedes from the parish.

Reply author: jungfigh
Replied on: 18/09/2013 12:10:07
Message:

I cannot thank-you enough for your stalwart efforts on my behalf jkmarler. It really is so much appreciated.

I am, yours sincerely,
Derek Lawbuary. Malta. G.C.

Reply author: jwiborg
Replied on: 18/09/2013 20:02:54
Message:

These are the possibilities I found, at first glance. Have not checked the 1910 census to rule them out...

1) Kristian Tomasen, Dayworker, born 1883 Nesj Hedemarken, residence Gjøvik, Oppland
2) Thomas Christian Thomassen, Mechanical apprentice, born 1883, residence Kristiansand, Vest-Agder
3) Kristen Tomassen, Farm work, born 1884, residence Selbu, Sør-Trøndelag IN NORWAY 1910
4) Ole Kristian Tomassen, Tailor apprentice, born 1883, reidence Grong, Nord-Trøndelag
5) Theodor Kristian Tomassen, Farm work, born 1884, residence Nord-Rana, Nordland
6) Kristian Tomassen, Mechanical work, born 1882 Bodø Nordland, residece Skjerstad, Nordland

Jan Peter

Reply author: jungfigh
Replied on: 18/09/2013 21:41:53
Message:

Once again invaluable Jan Peter: If only I could get something on an official document from England to match one of these.

Reply author: jungfigh
Replied on: 19/09/2013 19:14:25
Message:

This link: http://www.michaelsbookshop.com/orw/id4.htm will take you to the church In Ramsgate where Christian & Maud were believed to be married.

Reply author: jungfigh
Replied on: 20/09/2013 10:32:59
Message:

I have posted photographs of Maud, on her own and Christian with the seven children to the sites web-master to upload for me. No response. Please let me know if the scan wasn't received.

I remain yours in anticipation,

Derek Lawbuary. Malta. G.C.

Reply author: David Yaw
Replied on: 20/09/2013 13:28:04
Message:

quote:

---

Originally posted by jwiborg

These are the possibilities I found, at first glance. Have not checked the 1910 census to rule them out...

1) Kristian Tomasen, Dayworker, born 1883 Nesj Hedemarken, residence Gjøvik, Oppland
2) Thomas Christian Thomassen, Mechanical apprentice, born 1883, residence Kristiansand, Vest-Agder
3) Kristen Tomassen, Farm work, born 1884, residence Selbu, Sør-Trøndelag IN NORWAY 1910
4) Ole Kristian Tomassen, Tailor apprentice, born 1883, reidence Grong, Nord-Trøndelag
5) Theodor Kristian Tomassen, Farm work, born 1884, residence Nord-Rana, Nordland
6) Kristian Tomassen, Mechanical work, born 1882 Bodø Nordland, residece Skjerstad, Nordland

Jan Peter

---

Reply author: David Yaw
Replied on: 20/09/2013 13:43:03
Message:

quote:

---

Originally posted by jungfigh

Once again invaluable Jan Peter: If only I could get something on an official document from England to match one of these.

---

Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 21/09/2013 03:27:04
Message:

Donald would be an exceedingly uncommon first name in Norway. Perhaps Christian's family including father came from Norway to England and are to be found in the 1901 census?

Few Donald but there are lots of first names which contain "ald" in Norway. Perhaps Donald is an adaptation from one of those names.

Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 21/09/2013 05:00:52
Message:

Here is what the Norsk Maritime Museum web page has for sail ships of the name Liv. There were 5 listings but the last two concerned the finding of the word liv in the descriptions and not what the ship was called. None of the captain's names appear to match the 1901 census finding.:

LIV18..Vikkilen, Grimstad, NorgeNasjonalitet:
Norsk
Type:Skip
Material:Tre
Byggeår:18..
Shipyard:Salve Johnsen
Construction site:
Vikkilen, Grimstad, Norge
Home: Grimstad

LIV ex britisk EAST ANGLIAN1876Pt. GlasgowNasjonalitet:
NorskType:Bark
Material: Jern/stål
Byggeår:1876
Shipyard:Robt. Duncan & Co.
Byggenr:106
Construction site:Pt. Glasgow
tonnage:912 brt, 797 netto
Mål:197,3 - 32,6 - 19,4
Home: Larvik 1896-1912
Owners: Chr. Nielsen 1896-1901 Chr. Nielsen & Co. 1901-12 (A/S Liv)
Skipsførere:A. H. Larsen 1896-1903 L. R. Farup 1903-06 Alfr. Nielsen 1906-12
Endelig skjebne:
Solgt Uruguay 1912, forandret til CLAVO. Avrigget 1912 i Motevideo, opprigget 1916, forandret til CLAVO

picture and other information from Sjøhistorie website:
http://www.sjohistorie.no/skip/l/1351715781.98


LIV1859Porsgrunn, NorgeNasjonalitet:Norsk
Type:Bark
Material:Tre
Byggeår:1859
Construction site:Porsgrunn,
Norgetonnage:264 brt, 246 nettoMål:106 -2 26 - 12,4 DNV
Ombygginger:Ombygget 1880 i Tønsberg
Home:Tønsberg -1864, -1897/98 Larvik 1897/98-1903Owners:Joh. Harbitz -1897/98 H. Corneliussen 1897/98-1903
Skipsførere:A. Svendsen 1864 Corneliussen -1903 H. A. Ditmansen L. A. Larsen 1889-98 H. Isaksen 1898-Farter:Trelastfart på Canadas østkyst
Endelig skjebne:Douglas, Isle of Man - Larvik. Ballast. Til ankers. Strandet, vrak 1903 10/10 Fleetwood Road

Reply author: jwiborg
Replied on: 21/09/2013 21:12:23
Message:

This is a challenge!

Donald Tompson is for sure not a Norwegian name. I wonder what "Donald" could have been in Norway?
Did Cristian Tompson apply for naturalisation as a British citizen?

Jan Peter

Reply author: jungfigh
Replied on: 22/09/2013 07:01:48
Message:

quote:

---

Originally posted by JaneC

Derek, I also haven't succeeded in teaching myself how to upload a photo to this forum. Here's a workaround - a free image hosting site. You can upload your jpg here and then post a link.
http://tinypic.com/

---

Reply author: jungfigh
Replied on: 22/09/2013 09:43:52
Message:

Another link to the loss of Campanula with another named crew member

http://www.ramsgatehistory.com/forum/index.php?topic=541.0

Reply author: jungfigh
Replied on: 22/09/2013 09:47:20
Message:

quote:

---

Originally posted by jwiborg

This is a challenge!

Donald Tompson is for sure not a Norwegian name. I wonder what "Donald" could have been in Norway?
Did Cristian Tompson apply for naturalisation as a British citizen?

Jan Peter

---

Reply author: jwiborg
Replied on: 22/09/2013 11:12:06
Message:

Jan Peter

Reply author: jwiborg
Replied on: 22/09/2013 12:17:08
Message:

It will be hard to identify Cristian Tompson 100% without a date or place of birth. Were could that be found?
In the application for naturalisation as a British citizen at the Ramsgate courthouse?
The deathrecord from 1920 could possibly contain some information?
Christening records for his children could also possibly tell something?

"Donald" could be Didrik, Daniel or Ditlef in Norway.
There is one Didrik Andreas Thomsen in census-1885 for Bergen.
A son Didrik Thomsen born 1885 is listed, but no Cristian born ab. 1883 in the census. Besides, he is a painter apprentice, and not a carpenter.

Being a sailor, his origin should be from the coastal area of Norway.

Jan Peter

Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 23/09/2013 03:05:50
Message:

Are either of the two witnesses to the Cristian's and Maud's wedding Norwegian? John William (Anderson? maybe?) and Clara Agnes Johnson?

Reply author: jungfigh
Replied on: 23/09/2013 11:40:47
Message:

quote:

---

Originally posted by jwiborg

It will be hard to identify Cristian Tompson 100% without a date or place of birth. Were could that be found?
In the application for naturalisation as a British citizen at the Ramsgate courthouse?
The deathrecord from 1920 could possibly contain some information?
Christening records for his children could also possibly tell something?

"Donald" could be Didrik, Daniel or Ditlef in Norway.
There is one Didrik Andreas Thomsen in census-1885 for Bergen.
A son Didrik Thomsen born 1885 is listed, but no Cristian born ab. 1883 in the census. Besides, he is a painter apprentice, and not a carpenter.

Being a sailor, his origin should be from the coastal area of Norway.

Jan Peter

---

Reply author: jungfigh
Replied on: 23/09/2013 11:50:16
Message:

quote:

---

Originally posted by jkmarler

Are either of the two witnesses to the Cristian's and Maud's wedding Norwegian? John William (Anderson? maybe?) and Clara Agnes Johnson?

---

Reply author: Kåarto
Replied on: 23/09/2013 15:20:40
Message:

Christian Tompsen born ca 1883 in Norway.
Father Donald Tompsen.
Most of the em. kept the intials; D. T.
Traditional Norwegian naming practice; Christians father was Donald (Daniel, Dankert, David, Didrik, Ditlef, Dyre + some rare names)

If Christians father had some of the names in the parenthesis as his 1. name Christian was bapt. Christian Danielsen, Christian Dankertsen, Christian Davidsen, Christian Didriksen etc.

Kåre

Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 23/09/2013 16:31:39
Message:

In the 1911 England census transcription there are 127 Norway born people listed as residing in Kent. There are only 2 in Ramsgate, Cristian and this one Edith Tinniswood age 27:

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XW6W-8W8

Perhaps there's a connection?

Reply author: David Yaw
Replied on: 23/09/2013 17:56:26
Message:

quote:

---

Originally posted by jkmarler

Are either of the two witnesses to the Cristian's and Maud's wedding Norwegian? John William (Anderson? maybe?) and Clara Agnes Johnson?

---

Reply author: David Yaw
Replied on: 23/09/2013 18:22:33
Message:

quote:

---

Originally posted by jungfigh

Below are the details of my maternal Grandfathers death.

It is believed he travelled to UK (Ramsgate, Kent) at the turn of the 19th century from an unknown Norwegian location. It is also known that he fought on the Western Front in the Great War as a gunner in the Royal Artillery.
I have been told that Tromm translates into English, or was changed to Thompson. There is also a memorial plaque dedicated to 'Campanula' in the Seaman's Church, Royal Harbour Ramsgate. Interestingly my Grandfather's name is shewn : Christine Thompson.
Any information would be sincerely appreciated in helping me find my Norwegian relatives.

Name: THOMPSON, CHRISTAIN
Initials: C
Nationality: United Kingdom
Rank: Second Engineer
Regiment/Service: Mercantile Marine
Unit Text: Steam Trawler "Campanula" (Ramsgate)
Age: 37
Date of Death: 28/01/1920
Additional information: Husband of Maude Oliva Thompson (nee Fast), of 6, Florence Terrace, Cannonbury Rd., Ramsgate. Born in Norway.
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Memorial: TOWER HILL MEMORIAL

---

Reply author: David Yaw
Replied on: 23/09/2013 18:33:26
Message:

quote:

---

Originally posted by David Yaw

quote:

---

Originally posted by jungfigh

Below are the details of my maternal Grandfathers death.

It is believed he travelled to UK (Ramsgate, Kent) at the turn of the 19th century from an unknown Norwegian location. It is also known that he fought on the Western Front in the Great War as a gunner in the Royal Artillery.
I have been told that Tromm translates into English, or was changed to Thompson. There is also a memorial plaque dedicated to 'Campanula' in the Seaman's Church, Royal Harbour Ramsgate. Interestingly my Grandfather's name is shewn : Christine Thompson.
Any information would be sincerely appreciated in helping me find my Norwegian relatives.

Name: THOMPSON, CHRISTAIN
Initials: C
Nationality: United Kingdom
Rank: Second Engineer
Regiment/Service: Mercantile Marine
Unit Text: Steam Trawler "Campanula" (Ramsgate)
Age: 37
Date of Death: 28/01/1920
Additional information: Husband of Maude Oliva Thompson (nee Fast), of 6, Florence Terrace, Cannonbury Rd., Ramsgate. Born in Norway.
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Memorial: TOWER HILL MEMORIAL

---

Derek, can you please clarify the source of the info that Christian served in the Royal Artillery on the western front. My guess is he would have been awarded a medal for service in this campaign - or is the implication his medal card was one of those destroyed by the unfortunate bomb on the records building ??

And do you have any steer on when he joined the Merchant Marine and the vessel he was serving on at time of death ?? I can't find a record for him among the Norwegians who were awarded the Merchant Marine Medal and/or Ribbon for service in WW1.

So might he have served in the army until the end of the war in Nov 1918, and only then taken up service in the merchant marine ??

---

Reply author: David Yaw
Replied on: 23/09/2013 18:43:25
Message:

quote:

---

Originally posted by jkmarler

In the 1911 England census transcription there are 127 Norway born people listed as residing in Kent. There are only 2 in Ramsgate, Cristian and this one Edith Tinniswood age 27:

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XW6W-8W8

Perhaps there's a connection?

---

Reply author: jwiborg
Replied on: 23/09/2013 19:09:34
Message:

Just a thought, but Tinniswood could be Tønnevold, a farmname in Fjære (Grimstad), Aust-Agder.

Jan Peter

Reply author: JaneC
Replied on: 23/09/2013 20:02:01
Message:

Ellis Island record 1916 for an Edith Tinniswood, actress, age 26, journeying from Liverpool to New York, final destination Los Angeles, California, USA; going to sister Evelyn Tinniswood in Los Angeles; nearest relative in England is George Tinniswood, brother.
O. T. Tønnevold had a shipping firm.

Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 23/09/2013 20:29:59
Message:

Here is George Tinniswood in 1911:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XW3K-DKB

Reply author: David Yaw
Replied on: 23/09/2013 20:43:13
Message:

quote:

---

Originally posted by JaneC

Ellis Island record 1916 for an Edith Tinniswood, actress, age 26, journeying from Liverpool to New York, final destination Los Angeles, California, USA; going to sister Evelyn Tinniswood in Los Angeles; nearest relative in England is George Tinniswood, brother.
O. T. Tønnevold had a shipping firm.

---

Reply author: jwiborg
Replied on: 23/09/2013 20:51:18
Message:

George Alfred Tinniswood is born in England by parents Robert John Tinniswood & Mary Anderson Tinniswood
Census-1891 shows the family living in Wolverhampton, Staffordshire, England.
Robert listed as born abt 1813 in Cumberland, England
Only Edith are listed as born in Norway. I think she could be born while the family was on a trip to Norway.

Jan Peter

Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 23/09/2013 21:32:20
Message:

quote:

---

Originally posted by David Yaw

quote:

---

[i]

---

Neither Edith nor George appear in the 1901 UK census

---

Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 23/09/2013 22:24:13
Message:

Here is another long shot, a Kristian Severin Trommestad b. 1885 in a place called Tromø, Ned.(short for Nedenes?) and his father is named Tom:

http://digitalarkivet.uib.no/cgi-win/WebCens.exe?slag=visbase&sidenr=5&filnamn=f00922&gardpostnr=281&personpostnr=1636&merk=1636#ovre

Reply author: jwiborg
Replied on: 23/09/2013 22:27:44
Message:

Tom listed as customs official...
Tromø Ned is the island Tromøy outside Arendal, Aust Agder. (Former Nedenes county).

Jan Peter

Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 23/09/2013 22:32:22
Message:

Okay, as I say, long shot. Here is his confirmation #29:
Source information: Aust-Agder county, Hisøy, Parish register copy nr. B 3 (1885-1905), Confirmation records 1899, page 205.
Permanent pagelink: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=6163&idx_id=6163&uid=ny&idx_side=-196

Reply author: David Yaw
Replied on: 23/09/2013 22:36:19
Message:

quote:

---

Originally posted by jkmarler

quote:

---

Originally posted by David Yaw

quote:

---

[i]

---

Neither Edith nor George appear in the 1901 UK census

---

Here is Edith Tinniswood birthplace Norway in 1901 but she is a British subject:

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/X9G7-X32

---

Reply author: David Yaw
Replied on: 23/09/2013 22:51:30
Message:

quote:

---

Originally posted by jwiborg

Tom listed as customs official...
Tromø Ned is the island Tromøy outside Arendal, Aust Agder. (Former Nedenes county).

Jan Peter

---

Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 23/09/2013 23:10:36
Message:

Do we really know that in 1903 Cristian actually could read and write English? Your signature is the same in English or Norwegian.

But the Kristian Trommestad is probably not a really good match--birthdate / year 1885, last name Trommestad vs Trom/Tromm, father's name Donald (of which there are virtually none in Norway),

The really promising Cristian s have probably already been looked at. What's happening now is to try to find the "average" of all the clues from long ago, place name Lauden Vordner, Trom, etc.etc, pending any further information from England.

Reply author: jwiborg
Replied on: 23/09/2013 23:23:03
Message:

Lauden Vordner....
Lauden... Rands?
Vordner... fjorden?

Randsfjorden?

Reply author: Kåarto
Replied on: 24/09/2013 00:19:27
Message:

Worth a tray
There were 20 Trommestad farms on the island Hisøy just outside Arendal town in 1900, seven of the persons used the Christen-Christensen name.

Arendal Mai. 27. 1882 a Christen Masilius was born. Parents; merchant Daniel Torgrimsen and Johanne Christine Madssen #27

Cant find any of them in the 1900 census for Norway, hoping for a connection to Trommestad.

Kåre

Reply author: jwiborg
Replied on: 24/09/2013 00:36:48
Message:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kåarto

Arendal Mai. 27. 1882 a Christen Masilius was born. Parents; merchant Daniel Torgrimsen and Johanne Christine Madssen #27

Cant find any of them in the 1900 census for Norway, hoping for a connection to Trommestad.

Kåre

---

Reply author: jwiborg
Replied on: 24/09/2013 00:47:13
Message:

Worth mentioning is that the coastal part of this area of Norway (Arendal-Grimstad) had big business with England at that time, exporting timber and ice to London.



Jan Peter

Reply author: jwiborg
Replied on: 24/09/2013 00:53:33
Message:

Places in Norway containing "fjord" (ref census-1900):

aafjord
aafjorden
arnefjord
baldsfjord
balsfjord
balsfjorden
battenfjord
battenfjorden
bøfjord
bøfjorden
eidfjord
eidsfjord
eikefjord
eiridsfjord
ekefjord
eresfjord
erfjord
eridsfjord
erisfjord
flekefjord
flekkefjord
flækkefjord
frafjord
hjørendfjord
hjøringfjord
hjørundfjord
hjørungfjord
hogsfjord
høgsfjord
høksfjord
isfjorden
kaafjord
kaafjorden
kjøllefjord
kvedfjord
kvefjord
kvefjords
kvædfjord
kvæfjord
langfjord
madsfjorden
masfjord
masfjorden
masfjordens
matsfjorden
nordfjord
nordfjordeid
nordfjordeide
nordfjordeidet
norfjord
persfjord
ramfjord
randsfjord
sandefjord
sigerfjord
syltefjord
syndfjord
søndfjord
sønfjord
sørfjord
sørfjorden
tysfjord
tysfjorden
ulfsfjorden
valsøfjord
valsøfjorden
velfjord
velfjorden
åfjorden
øksfjord
øxfjord

Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 24/09/2013 01:56:26
Message:

Here is Daniel Torgrimsen & family in 1865 census:
http://digitalarkivet.uib.no/cgi-win/WebCens.exe?slag=visbase&sidenr=13&filnamn=f60903&gardpostnr=179&personpostnr=1801&merk=1801#ovre

Here is Erika Torgrimsen going to America in 1896:
http://digitalarkivet.no/cgi-win/webcens.exe?slag=visbase&filnamn=KRISTUT&personpostnr=29618&merk=29618

Kristen Masilius Torgrimsen confirmation:
Source information: Aust-Agder county, Arendal, Parish register (official) nr. A 8 (1878-1899), Confirmation records 1897, page 295.
Permanent pagelink: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=776&idx_id=776&uid=ny&idx_side=-292

Daniel Torgrimsen death /funeral #17:
Source information: Aust-Agder county, Arendal, Parish register copy nr. B 5 (1874-1888), Death and burial records men 1885, page 408.
Permanent pagelink: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=9406&idx_id=9406&uid=ny&idx_side=-381

Reply author: jwiborg
Replied on: 24/09/2013 17:32:15
Message:

Kristen Marcelius Torgrimsen
Census-1910

Jan Peter

Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 24/09/2013 18:09:59
Message:

quote:

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Originally posted by jwiborg

Places in Norway containing "fjord" (ref census-1900):

aafjorden
baldsfjord
balsfjord
balsfjorden
battenfjord
battenfjorden
bøfjorden
flekefjord
flekkefjord
flækkefjord
hjørendfjord
hjøringfjord
hjørundfjord
hjørungfjord
høksfjord
isfjorden
kaafjorden
kjøllefjord
langfjord
madsfjorden
masfjorden
masfjordens
matsfjorden
nordfjordeid
nordfjordeide
nordfjordeidet
ramfjord
randsfjord
sandefjord
syltefjord
søndfjord
sørfjorden
tysfjorden
ulfsfjorden
valsøfjord
valsøfjorden
velfjord
velfjorden

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Reply author: Kåarto
Replied on: 24/09/2013 20:06:23
Message:

quote:

---

Originally posted by jkmarler
There is also a parish Leirfjord created from Alstahaug. Above I left in those with an L or d or t in the first syllable and those spellings with the article en or et at the end.

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Reply author: jungfigh
Replied on: 25/09/2013 11:13:20
Message:

quote:

---

Originally posted by David Yaw

quote:

---

Originally posted by jwiborg

These are the possibilities I found, at first glance. Have not checked the 1910 census to rule them out...

1) Kristian Tomasen, Dayworker, born 1883 Nesj Hedemarken, residence Gjøvik, Oppland
2) Thomas Christian Thomassen, Mechanical apprentice, born 1883, residence Kristiansand, Vest-Agder
3) Kristen Tomassen, Farm work, born 1884, residence Selbu, Sør-Trøndelag IN NORWAY 1910
4) Ole Kristian Tomassen, Tailor apprentice, born 1883, reidence Grong, Nord-Trøndelag
5) Theodor Kristian Tomassen, Farm work, born 1884, residence Nord-Rana, Nordland
6) Kristian Tomassen, Mechanical work, born 1882 Bodø Nordland, residece Skjerstad, Nordland

Jan Peter

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Derek, is it useful to consider how and when Christian ended up in Ramsgate and marrying there ?? It's not a place like say Hull or Newcastle with obvious Norwegian connections. JKMarler's earlier post on the Norwegian census gives Christian's occupation as "Kok paa Dampskip", which I guess means "cook on a steamship" - at least a seaman. I looked to see if the there are "sjomannsroller" seaman's records for Bergen, but found none.

He doesn't appear in the 1901 UK census, and so presumably came between then and a few months (weeks even ??) before his marriage in third quarter 1903. Have you checked to see if their marriage was preceded by banns read in the church there ?? Just might have an address. If not, hopefully the marriage certificate will have it,as well as name of his father.

A long shot maybe. The 1901 UK census has a Norwegian vessel in port of Ramsgate on the night the census was taken, 31 March 1901. Record difficult to read, but looks like she was the Norwegian registered sailing ship "Liv", home port "Lausing", which I can't find on any map. What is clear is that the master was Ole Christian Andreassen, with an all Norwegian crew. Local newspaper records often published details of vessels arriving and leaving port, so a search might give a clue whether this was a one-off voyage or part of a regular route or indeed other vessels making this call. Maybe our Norwegian friends can trace either the vessel or master, just might give a clue as to its/his origins..

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Reply author: jungfigh
Replied on: 25/09/2013 11:15:31
Message:

Although I've been 'absent' for a few days ( telephoning English Parishes, etc.) I have kept abreast of all postings. I sincerely thank all of you for your on-going assistance.

Reply author: David Yaw
Replied on: 25/09/2013 13:45:05
Message:

quote:

---

Originally posted by jungfigh

Another link to the loss of Campanula with another named crew member

http://www.ramsgatehistory.com/forum/index.php?topic=541.0

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Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 25/09/2013 17:05:34
Message:

His last name was changed from Tromm to Tompson. Perhaps it was changed from "Strommen" to Tromm to Tompson. In Norway the most common spelling of Strommen would be Strømmen. Here is Kristian Strommen onboard vessel b. 1883:

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XSF3-3D5

Reply author: David Yaw
Replied on: 25/09/2013 19:45:07
Message:

quote:

---

Originally posted by jkmarler

His last name was changed from Tromm to Tompson. Perhaps it was changed from "Strommen" to Tromm to Tompson. In Norway the most common spelling of Strommen would be Strømmen. Here is Kristian Strommen onboard vessel b. 1883:

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XSF3-3D5

---

Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 25/09/2013 21:02:38
Message:

Strommen could be a last name or the name of a farm. Here are two Kristian Strøm and Kristian Strømmen. The Strømmen is a bit youngish to be a fellow marrying in 1903 unless there's an error in the birthyear in the census. The other is not living with parents but is a "pleie" a foster child.:

Kristian Strøm 1900 Norway b. 1884 Hammerø:
http://digitalarkivet.uib.no/cgi-win/WebCens.exe?slag=visbase&sidenr=7&filnamn=f01917&gardpostnr=338&personpostnr=2149&merk=2149#ovre

Kristian Strømmen b. 1889 Bokns Rogaland Norway in 1900:
http://digitalarkivet.uib.no/cgi-win/WebCens.exe?slag=visbase&sidenr=34&filnamn=f01145&gardpostnr=127&personpostnr=680&merk=680#ovre

Birthyear not in error, #1 Sigvald Kristian:
Source information: Rogaland county, Bokn in Tysvær, Parish register (official) nr. A 7 (1878-1897), Birth and baptism records 1890, page 29.
Permanent pagelink: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=6362&idx_id=6362&uid=ny&idx_side=-32

Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 25/09/2013 21:40:00
Message:

Living on Strømmen:

Kristian Knuds. b 1881 Fjære father is :
http://digitalarkivet.uib.no/cgi-win/WebCens.exe?slag=visbase&sidenr=4&filnamn=f00920&gardpostnr=416&personpostnr=2305&merk=2305#ovre

Olaf Kristian Olsen b. 1878 Barbu carpenter pleie son:
http://digitalarkivet.uib.no/cgi-win/WebCens.exe?slag=visbase&sidenr=26&filnamn=f00920&gardpostnr=508&personpostnr=2849&merk=2849#ovre

Kristian Anders. B. 1886 øiestad :
http://digitalarkivet.uib.no/cgi-win/WebCens.exe?slag=visbase&sidenr=26&filnamn=f00920&gardpostnr=421&personpostnr=2329&merk=2329#ovre

Kristian Kristenson b. 1886 Hisø temp in America father Tobias:
http://digitalarkivet.uib.no/cgi-win/WebCens.exe?slag=visbase&sidenr=8&filnamn=f00922&gardpostnr=151&personpostnr=869&merk=869#ovre

Kristian Mathisen b. 1885 Lier Buskerud:
http://digitalarkivet.uib.no/cgi-win/WebCens.exe?slag=visbase&sidenr=11&filnamn=f00231&gardpostnr=314&personpostnr=2057&merk=2057#ovre

Kristian Hansen b. 1879 hurdalen works on railroad:
http://digitalarkivet.uib.no/cgi-win/WebCens.exe?slag=visbase&sidenr=14&filnamn=f00239&gardpostnr=189&personpostnr=1083&merk=1083#ovre

Kristian Sørlund b. 1880 Ringsaker carpenter apprentice:
http://digitalarkivet.uib.no/cgi-win/WebCens.exe?slag=visbase&sidenr=17&filnamn=f00412&gardpostnr=1269&personpostnr=7627&merk=7627#ovre

Kristian Olsen b. 1879 Inderøen onboard English sail ship:
http://digitalarkivet.uib.no/cgi-win/WebCens.exe?slag=visbase&sidenr=20&filnamn=f01729&gardpostnr=192&personpostnr=1037&merk=1037#ovre

Johan Kristian Tobiassen b.1888 birthplace not recorded living on Strømmen in Ibestad:
http://digitalarkivet.uib.no/cgi-win/WebCens.exe?slag=visbase&sidenr=23&filnamn=f01917&gardpostnr=1005&personpostnr=6378&merk=6378#ovre

Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 25/09/2013 22:16:26
Message:

In 1900 Norway had a special schedule in the census of sailors. Here is the only man with "rist" as part of his first name and born in 1883 :

http://digitalarkivet.uib.no/cgi-win/webcens.exe?slag=visbase&sidenr=30&filnamn=s0landet&gardpostnr=455&personpostnr=5303&merk=5303#ovre

Reply author: jungfigh
Replied on: 26/09/2013 09:49:20
Message:

quote:

---

Originally posted by jkmarler

His last name was changed from Tromm to Tompson. Perhaps it was changed from "Strommen" to Tromm to Tompson. In Norway the most common spelling of Strommen would be Strømmen. Here is Kristian Strommen onboard vessel b. 1883:

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XSF3-3D5

---

Reply author: jwiborg
Replied on: 26/09/2013 16:21:12
Message:

Derek, while the search continues; I hope you are pursuing the British records for Christians date/place of birth.

Jan Peter

Reply author: jungfigh
Replied on: 26/09/2013 16:54:13
Message:

Good afternoon Jan Peter,
Yes, that avenue is being investigated.
sincerely.
Derek..

Reply author: jungfigh
Replied on: 27/09/2013 10:59:36
Message:

During Christian's relatively short life time The Sailor's church' in Ramsgate harbour is where he may have worshipped before going to sea.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8PjgRfLyl4k

Reply author: jungfigh
Replied on: 27/09/2013 11:06:09
Message:

Derek,



I spent a bit of time this afternoon trying to make some progress with Christian's father in Norway.

When I run a search in the Norwegian archive for all databases and the period 1800-2013 for someone forename Donald, there are about 43 records. Many of them relate to Norwegian emigrants to North America, and to more recent deaths in Norway.

But there is one record that is really unusual - see the attached scan. This is for the baptism of a child with the forenames Donald Campbell Mackey - born in Calcutta of all places in January 1849, and christened in Stromso (its near Drammen, and not far from Strommen) in October that year - probably after the voyage home which must have taken several months in those days. Apart from missing an "Angus" and a "Mc", it would be difficult to find a more Scottish name !!!

The apparent parents are Honoratus Bonnevie and Petronelle Lund both from Tangen - and as far as I can make out, the witnesses at the baptism include a Pastor Bonnevie and some Lund's. Bonnevie doesn't sound particularly Norwegian either (more like French, and one branch of the family does originate from there), but there are quite a few who pop up in a search. Honoratus' occupation is given as "Proprietaire" - I'd translate that from the French as "Property- or land-owner", but need to check the Norwegian version.

So how the heck did a couple of Norwegian parents come to be (apparently) in India and choose some very Scottish names for their child ?? Or was he maybe orphaned and/or adopted ???? And following Norwegian naming practice, would his name thus be Donald Campbell Mackey Honoratusen ??? I can't find anyone at all with that surname in the Norwegian archives 1800 - 2013 !!

I have tried to trace them in the 1865 and later Norwegian censuses without success, but I'm not that proficient at navigating my way around the Norwegian archives - definitely still have "L" plates on !!!

But what then becomes a bit more intriguing is when we run a search into the 1900's. Hakon Honoratus Bonnevie b 1916 and Rolf Donald Bonnevie b 1923 both show up as (I think I have the translation correct) students at the Bergen Cathedral School 1930 - 1947. These names sound like too much of a coincidence for there not to be some family connection there.

BUT what are the chances this "Donald" could possibly be Christian's father - born 1849 so age would not dis-bar him.

This post courtesy of David with his permission to print. Meanwhile my searches In The British Isles continue.

Thank-you all once again for your input. Every little piece of the puzzle makes a complete one. As we all appreciate.

Reply author: David Yaw
Replied on: 27/09/2013 13:15:33
Message:

Derek,

A little more digging. I googled "Donald Campbell Mackey Bonnevie". Lo and behold, he comes up with a family tree on Geni managed by Jouni Ruohonen. Its beyond my IT skills to put the link here - maybe one of our more proficient community colleagues could find and post it.

Parents are stated as Honoratus and Petronelle, so the tree does refer to the same person. Incidentally, links to this tree state Honoratus died 1854, one link stating he died in India, (Donald would have been just 5 years old) and Petronelle in 1863.

According to the same tree, Donald married Sofia Elisabet - and wait for it, maiden name STROMER !!!! The tree gives links to other trees, which yield the information that she was born 7 May 1853 in Oulu, Finland. No date or place is given for their marriage.

The tree further states they had TWO children :

Emmy b Fredrikshald (now Halden) . I found her on the Norwegian archives, b 2 September 1876 baptised 8 October 1876, record #119

Henry Honoratus, b Royken, Buskerud. I found this record too, b 12 May 1878 baptised 16 June 1876 record #56.

(Apologies, I don't know how to put the links here. Again, maybe a community colleague could do that - they might also glean more info from the names of the witnesses)

Both baptisms refer to Donald as "Engineer", which together with the spread of places for his wife's and children's birthplaces might imply he travelled around.

But the trees make no reference at all to a third child Christian, who we reckon was born around1883 - the two above would have been his siblings.

Apparently Donald died in Christiania in 1900.

I want to avoid the danger of making the facts fit the story rather than the other way around, but surely there are now too many coincidences I this thread with the names Donald, Bonnevie and Stromer for there not to be a linkage ??

I'd be grateful if another pair of eyes more experienced than mine could run over these searches to validate these comments.
.

Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 27/09/2013 14:02:16
Message:

Here is bit of family history on Bonnevie family:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honoratus_Bonnevie

Here is a geni page for Donald Campbell Mackey Bonnevie:
http://www.geni.com/people/Donald-Campbell-Mackey-Bonnevie/6000000013172354458

Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 27/09/2013 14:28:07
Message:

Here is the baptism for Donald #110:
Kildeinformasjon: Buskerud fylke, Strømsø, Ministerialbok nr. I 14 (1848-1858), Fødte og døpte 1849, side 33.
Permanent sidelenke: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=1137&idx_id=1137&uid=ny&idx_side=-36


Here is Donald Bonnevie in 1885 living in Oslo. Unfortunately no son named Christian:
http://digitalarkivet.uib.no/cgi-win/webcens.exe?slag=visbase&sidenr=8&filnamn=f80301&gardpostnr=1384&personpostnr=29321&merk=29321#ovre

Reply author: jungfigh
Replied on: 27/09/2013 16:59:58
Message:

This really is a conundrum wrapped up in an enigma...or vice-versa..!

Reply author: jungfigh
Replied on: 27/09/2013 17:02:08
Message:

Still no receipt of Certificates from UK. (yet).

My telephone calls also seem to be non events. (so far).

Onward and upward..!

Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 27/09/2013 18:55:59
Message:

Donald Bonnevie doesn't necessarily get a by. I've seen lots of baptisms celebrated in which the parents are listed as "gifteman" & "pige"--married man and unmarried female....

Reply author: jungfigh
Replied on: 27/09/2013 19:51:48
Message:

I've never heard of or seen those terms Jackie...are they American in origin..?

Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 27/09/2013 20:23:51
Message:

They are Norwegian for married man and unmarried woman.

Here is a database at familysearch.org for Honoratus Bonnevie:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.2.1/S5ZX-STB

Reply author: jungfigh
Replied on: 27/09/2013 21:16:53
Message:

Thank-you Jackie.


Manuel born 1647.. Capitaine...would that be a military title or sea-going..?

Reply author: Kåarto
Replied on: 27/09/2013 21:35:14
Message:

The origin of the familyname Bonnevie in Norway is French from the city Antibes in Provence and Honore Bonnevie born June 8. 1663. He came to the costal town Brevik in Telemark 1714 where he on March 9. 1715 married Boel Corneliusdatter, daught. to Cornelius Danielsen and Anne Larsdatter. Honore Bonnevie moved Denmark where he died 1734.
He left 3 sons in Norway, one of them was Honoratius Bonnevie 1726-1811. He had 5 sons and these are the ancestors to the Norwegian Bonnevies.
Source; Norsk Slekthistorisk Forening (Norwegian Familyhistory Society)

Honoratius Bonnevie was married twice, his Family-tree

Kåre

Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 28/09/2013 05:28:17
Message:

quote:

---

Originally posted by jungfigh




Manuel born 1647.. Capitaine...would that be a military title or sea-going..?

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Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 28/09/2013 06:47:51
Message:

Do you know if there might be a town or village in England or Great Britain named Norway?

I'm reminded because an old researcher one time told me they found their ancestor was listed as having moved to Wyoming and he set to searching in Wyoming records and was unsuccessful. It turned out that it was to the town Wyoming in the next county, not the state..

Reply author: David Yaw
Replied on: 28/09/2013 10:08:53
Message:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kåarto

The origin of the familyname Bonnevie in Norway is French from the city Antibes in Provence and Honore Bonnevie born June 8. 1663. He came to the costal town Brevik in Telemark 1714 where he on March 9. 1715 married Boel Corneliusdatter, daught. to Cornelius Danielsen and Anne Larsdatter. Honore Bonnevie moved Denmark where he died 1734.
He left 3 sons in Norway, one of them was Honoratius Bonnevie 1726-1811. He had 5 sons and these are the ancestors to the Norwegian Bonnevies.
Source; Norsk Slekthistorisk Forening (Norwegian Familyhistory Society)

Honoratius Bonnevie was married twice, his Family-tree

Kåre

---

Reply author: David Yaw
Replied on: 28/09/2013 10:51:00
Message:

quote:

---

Originally posted by jkmarler

Donald Bonnevie doesn't necessarily get a by. I've seen lots of baptisms celebrated in which the parents are listed as "gifteman" & "pige"--married man and unmarried female....

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Reply author: jungfigh
Replied on: 28/09/2013 10:54:10
Message:

Good morning Jan Peter,

I have scanned photographs of my Grandmother Maud and a second with Christian In British Army uniform with all the children.

Thank-you for your assistance in posting these on site for me.

Sincerely,

Derek.

Reply author: David Yaw
Replied on: 28/09/2013 10:55:36
Message:

quote:

---

Originally posted by jkmarler

Do you know if there might be a town or village in England or Great Britain named Norway?

I'm reminded because an old researcher one time told me they found their ancestor was listed as having moved to Wyoming and he set to searching in Wyoming records and was unsuccessful. It turned out that it was to the town Wyoming in the next county, not the state..

---

Reply author: David Yaw
Replied on: 28/09/2013 10:58:53
Message:

Derek, don't think this has been picked up in this thread to date.

On Ancestry, there are two public member trees which include Cristian Tomson born Norway 1883. They are the Mault and Thomas family trees. I don't have full access to Ancestry, but maybe some community member has, and could check these out to see if there are any clues there.

Reply author: jungfigh
Replied on: 28/09/2013 11:47:45
Message:

I'll see what I can do from here David...Thank-you.

Reply author: jungfigh
Replied on: 28/09/2013 11:52:58
Message:

David:

I haven't scrutinised this link but I've gone through the Military site as the name doesn't appear a common one one to me.

http://www.forces-war-records.co.uk/NameSearch?FirstNamePlaceholderText=First%20name&FirstNameIncludeSimilar=False&SurnameIncludeSimilar=False&SaveThisSearch=False&RecordDateStartYear=1700&RecordDateEndYear=2013&IncludeRecordsWithoutServiceNumber=True&DiedInActiveService=False&SurvivedActiveService=False&ReceivedGallantryAward=False&MentionedInDespatches=False&IsFBApp=False&RecordType=NotSelected&Page=0&RecordsPerPage=0&SurnameNamePlaceholderText=Surname&Surname=Mault

Reply author: jungfigh
Replied on: 28/09/2013 12:03:26
Message:

Another Military site for Thomas...these records go back to pre Napoleonic ( 1700). A lot of reading here but through other avenues and cross referencing I may find a match.

http://www.forces-war-records.co.uk/NameSearch?FirstNamePlaceholderText=First%20name&FirstNameIncludeSimilar=False&SurnameIncludeSimilar=False&SaveThisSearch=False&RecordDateStartYear=1700&RecordDateEndYear=2013&IncludeRecordsWithoutServiceNumber=True&DiedInActiveService=False&SurvivedActiveService=False&ReceivedGallantryAward=False&MentionedInDespatches=False&IsFBApp=False&RecordType=NotSelected&Page=0&RecordsPerPage=0&SurnameNamePlaceholderText=Surname&Surname=thomas

Reply author: jwiborg
Replied on: 28/09/2013 20:14:20
Message:

Grandmother Maud (not dated).
On the back: "Mother of Rose, Christine, Doris, Marjorie, Daisy, Tom and Frank".
Courtesy of Derek Lawburary.


Christian with the children, from clockwise: Tom, Frank, Rose, Christine, Marjorie, Doris, Daisy.
Although not dated; Christian is still in British Army uniform so this was possibly taken towards the end of WW1 before Christian went to sea.
Courtesy of Derek Lawburary.

Jan Peter

Reply author: jungfigh
Replied on: 29/09/2013 10:45:32
Message:

Thank-you Jan Peter, you're a star.

The photograph of Christian (with all of his children) is what this topic is all about.


I've a gut feeling that we're not too far away from solving his antecedents.

The photograph of Grandmother Maud as stated has no date, but, it bears a striking resemblance in age to the earlier one posted on this site when Maud was posing with an unknown lady.

I will take this time to thank-you all who have contributed to the search of Christian.

Reply author: jungfigh
Replied on: 29/09/2013 11:29:54
Message:

Forgot to reference:

Maud is pictured on page 1 of this topic.

Reply author: David Yaw
Replied on: 02/10/2013 17:41:47
Message:

quote:

---

Originally posted by David Yaw

Derek, don't think this has been picked up in this thread to date.

On Ancestry, there are two public member trees which include Cristian Tomson born Norway 1883. They are the Mault and Thomas family trees. I don't have full access to Ancestry, but maybe some community member has, and could check these out to see if there are any clues there.

---

Reply author: David Yaw
Replied on: 02/10/2013 17:45:39
Message:

Derek, I spent some time today looking at the UK National Archives records of naturalisations in the early 1900's. Lots of C(h)ristians, including not a few from Norway. But unfortunately no T(h)ompsons.

This is just for the record - I was hoping there might be details of addresses and parentage in any file. .

Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 02/10/2013 18:47:24
Message:

quote:

---

Originally posted by David Yaw

quote:

---

Originally posted by jkmarler

Do you know if there might be a town or village in England or Great Britain named Norway?

I'm reminded because an old researcher one time told me they found their ancestor was listed as having moved to Wyoming and he set to searching in Wyoming records and was unsuccessful. It turned out that it was to the town Wyoming in the next county, not the state..

---

Jackie, looked for this today - only through Google - but no match.

---

Reply author: jungfigh
Replied on: 02/10/2013 18:48:51
Message:

quote:

---

Originally posted by David Yaw

Derek, I spent some time today looking at the UK National Archives records of naturalisations in the early 1900's. Lots of C(h)ristians, including not a few from Norway. But unfortunately no T(h)ompsons.

This is just for the record - I was hoping there might be details of addresses and parentage in any file. .

---

Reply author: David Yaw
Replied on: 02/10/2013 19:04:13
Message:

quote:

---

Originally posted by jungfigh

quote:

---

Originally posted by David Yaw

Derek, I spent some time today looking at the UK National Archives records of naturalisations in the early 1900's. Lots of C(h)ristians, including not a few from Norway. But unfortunately no T(h)ompsons.

This is just for the record - I was hoping there might be details of addresses and parentage in any file. .

---

Thank-you David.

I found this to-day http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=pubmembertrees&rank=1&new=1&so=3&MSAV=1&msT=1&gss=ms_db&gsfn=Cristian&gsln=Tompson&uidh=ey3 Christian and Maud are mentioned here also others of whom I do not know . The 'net' will be cast further.

Still no certificates from England...yet..!

---

Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 02/10/2013 20:12:30
Message:

Not sure what you might find (and or have to pay for to get) at this newspaper site. It let me look quite a bit:

http://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk

Reply author: jungfigh
Replied on: 02/10/2013 21:17:31
Message:

Sincere thanks Jackie.

I have subscribed for a couple for a couple of days to carry out some armchair research..!

Not expensive approx $10 US.

Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 02/10/2013 23:18:01
Message:

Derek,

Why did Christian join land forces rather than naval forces when he decided to serve in WWI? Or did England draft him? If he had a strong previous maritime experience wouldn't the recruiters have tried to steer him to naval service instead? Just curious....

Reply author: jungfigh
Replied on: 03/10/2013 10:43:03
Message:

Good morning Jackie,

I believe the answer may be within the link below. At that time the R.N. was the mightiest fleet in the world and to all intents and purposes,...fully manned.

My impression is that apart from Admiral's and senior RN officers, mostly their offspring were accepted...the future uncrowned King Edward V111 and his brother who became King by abdication...George V1 are examples albeit extreme.

At the outbreak of WW1 The British Army was very small. After the Boer War at the turn of the century soldiers were demobbed (whether they liked it or not) to save expenses. The recruiting campaign for the Army in this latest war was intense. Young officers were chosen from public schools to lead the hundreds of thousands of 'ordinary men' who were known as the PBI (Poor bloody Infantry)...'cannon fodder' which only proved to be so true. The majority of these poor souls were all volunteers. 'For King And Country'.

Then there was the fledgling R.F.C ( Royal Flying Corps) Later The R.A.F. Who also had to supply thousands of pilots and aircrew combined...again mostly from public schools.

So with that regard to Christian and taking away nothing whatsoever of his education or maritime skills I feel he was way down the pecking order for selection to the R.N. and ended up with the R(F)A on the Western front as a gunner.

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/FWWnavy.htm

Addendum to above: http://www.airwar1.org.uk/

and: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recruitment_to_the_British_Army_during_the_First_World_War

Reply author: jungfigh
Replied on: 03/10/2013 11:27:41
Message:

A finding from the marvellous link Jackie supplied;

A transcript from Dover Express dated Friday 06 February 1920:

RAMSGATE TRAWLER MISSING:

It is feared that another accident has happened to the Ramsgate fishing fleet. The trawler 'Campanula' last Tuesday which left for a cruise and has not been heard of since last Thursday.

It was purchased last November by the Isle of Thanet Steam Trawling Company and had previously been engaged on minesweeping and patrol at Ramsgate. There was a crew of nine.

Reply author: jungfigh
Replied on: 03/10/2013 11:37:05
Message:

I appreciate this post above does not give any more information with regard Christian, but, the fact, was Campanula still on mine sweeping duties? I was always told by my family that the mine that killed the crew was trawled up whilst the trawler was fishing. Another misconception..?

Reply author: jwiborg
Replied on: 03/10/2013 17:33:52
Message:

quote:

---

Originally posted by jungfigh

I appreciate this post above does not give any more information with regard Christian, but, the fact, was Campanula still on mine sweeping duties? I was always told by my family that the mine that killed the crew was trawled up whilst the trawler was fishing. Another misconception..?

---

Reply author: jungfigh
Replied on: 04/10/2013 09:20:52
Message:

Correct Jan Peter.

"I must pay more attention" X 100...there I've given myself 100 lines..!

Onlyexcuse for that fooh-pah was that I was a bit 'bog-eyed' after a long computer session.

Reply author: jwiborg
Replied on: 04/10/2013 17:45:15
Message:

quote:

---

Originally posted by jungfigh

Correct Jan Peter.

"I must pay more attention" X 100...there I've given myself 100 lines..!

Onlyexcuse for that fooh-pah was that I was a bit 'bog-eyed' after a long computer session.

---

Reply author: jungfigh
Replied on: 04/10/2013 18:31:02
Message:

To-day I have spent more than two hours telephoning various departments in the UK whom I believed could help in my quest with regard Christian...Results...Nil..!

Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 04/10/2013 18:32:18
Message:

Derek, Thanks for information about the recruitment during WWI in Britain. But, unless you were drafted and couldn't avoid it, wouldn't most men with 7 children & wife to support try not be in a spot where they might die? Even artillery men can be killed.
Strangely ironic that he survived the war & died after the war by left over weapons from the war.

As to the fully manned status of the Royal Navy, that is quite interesting. I figured not taking in someone with maritime experience into the Navy sounded like a "snafu", situation normal all fouled up.

Reply author: jungfigh
Replied on: 05/10/2013 10:26:56
Message:

Jackie,

The article below is rather lengthy but very poignant. I believe that through these tragic deaths The British War Office decreed that not all the Son's of one family could fight in the front-line during later conflicts. I believe the USA had a similar diktat. The film Saving Private Ryan reflects that.

As we know things were very different In theatres of war then. 'For King and Country' and 'Your Country Needs You' were two of the best recruiting posters during WW1 Britain attracting over a million combatants. Then there was Patriotism which has come down the line to to-day. In W.W.1 it was a fierce Patriotism. This was also the time of the white feathers. Many young Men who weren't in uniform were given these, usually by women. The white feather signified cowardice, even though the Men were serving but in mufti. I believe not many young men wanted to receive the 'badge of Cowardice'...which also spurred them on to enlist.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2060179/Armistice-Day-2011-The-mother-lost-sons-WW1.html

Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 05/10/2013 16:41:39
Message:

Wars do unleash all sorts of unholiness...The ironic thing about the "Sullivan" law in US and elsewhere illustrated in Saving Private Ryan is that many families had only one son to lose in service and did. Numbers don't signify the loss only the absurdity.

Thanks for the explanation about the "white feather." As a genealogist, my curiosity always bends to what motivates action to find clarity.

Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 05/10/2013 23:40:35
Message:

In the online marriage index for Britain there was a Sophie C. H. Tromm who married a Carl O. M. Pflug in Dover, Kent about Oct 1912. Is she worth pursuing?

Reply author: David Yaw
Replied on: 06/10/2013 12:55:33
Message:

quote:

---

Originally posted by jkmarler

In the online marriage index for Britain there was a Sophie C. H. Tromm who married a Carl O. M. Pflug in Dover, Kent about Oct 1912. Is she worth pursuing?

---

Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 06/10/2013 13:16:27
Message:

The marriage was in the transcribed alphabetical list at Ancestry. I thought it was just interesting the same uncommon name, also in Kent, near the same time as Christian, but it may or may not be significant. I did look at the list and it was exactly as indexed. I didn't mail to myself since there was no further info in it --such as ages, etc.

Also there were 4 references to a "Donald Tromm" in the directories section but when I looked at the page links I was unable to find Donald Tromm, so seemed to be an OCR read problem, maybe. One place was in Bedfordshire from 1849.

Reply author: jungfigh
Replied on: 06/10/2013 20:43:24
Message:

quote:

---

Originally posted by jkmarler

The marriage was in the transcribed alphabetical list at Ancestry. I thought it was just interesting the same uncommon name, also in Kent, near the same time as Christian, but it may or may not be significant. I did look at the list and it was exactly as indexed. I didn't mail to myself since there was no further info in it --such as ages, etc.

Also there were 4 references to a "Donald Tromm" in the directories section but when I looked at the page links I was unable to find Donald Tromm, so seemed to be an OCR read problem, maybe. One place was in Bedfordshire from 1849.

---

Reply author: jungfigh
Replied on: 10/10/2013 11:02:28
Message:

Good morning friends.

Although I have been AWOL from the topic for a few days, I haven't been malingering..! Many telephone calls may result in new feedback. I will post when I receive.

The Cert's from England promised for the 7th October have still not arrived..!

Reply author: jungfigh
Replied on: 11/10/2013 10:57:35
Message:

A lot of this report is already known: The interesting point is the 3 reports Terry found: Watch this space.

Hi Derek
>
> Please find the following info on Campanula also I have found newspaper
> reports giving details of funds raised by fishing boats and the people of
> Ramsgate to
> help the relatives of men lost. Memorial services were carried out at St.
> George's Church, Harbour Mission Church and the Sailors Rest. A majority
> of the
> bereaved relatives attended the Harbour Mission Church along with crews
> from other Ramsgate fishing vessels.
>
> I found 3 reports . They will be forwarded
>
>
> Name;- Campanula.
>
> First Registered at Ramsgate;- December 1919.
>
> Formerly Registered at Lowestoft.
>
> Gross tonnage;- 95 tons.
>
> Nett tonnage;- 40 tons.
>
> Length;- 86.2 feet.
>
> Beam;- 18.6 feet.
>
> Depth;- 9.1 feet.
>
> Built;- Yarmouth 1913.
>
> Construction;- Steel
>
> Date lost;- 4th February,1920.
>
> Owners;- Isle of Thanet Steam Trawling Co,Ltd.
>
> Last known position;- 10 miles off the Galloper.
>
> Date re last position;- 4th February,1920.
>
> Crew List CAMPANULA.
> ----------------------------
>
> Skipper;- George Kennard. Age 25yrs. Son of Mr.G. and Mrs A.Kennard of
> 4.Norman's Place,West Malling,Kent.
>
> Mate;- Frederick Samuel Halsey. Age 29yrs.Son of Samuel Thomas and Lydia
> Halsey;husband of Agnes Alicia Elizabeth Halsey (nee MacDougal), of
> 8.Plains of
> Waterloo, Ramsgate, Kent.
>
> First Engineer;- William John Owen. Age 43yrs. Son of William John and
> Mary Ann Owen; husband of Alice Edith Owen (nee Lawrence) of 61 Dane Road,
> Margate, Kent.
>
> Second Engineer;- Christian Thompson. Age 37yrs. (born 1883). Husband of
> Maude Oliva Thompson (nee Fast) of 6 Florence Terrace, Cannonbury Road,
> Ramsgate, Kent. Born in Norway.
>
> Third Hand;- John Saunders. Age 31yrs. Son of the late Mr and Mrs
> Saunders; husband of Ellen Rose Saunders (nee Hubbard) of 49 Finsbury
> Road, Ramsgate.
> Born;- Croydon, Surrey.
>
> Deck Hand;- Alfred Roland Cook West. Age;- 28yrs. Son of Alfred and
> Harriet Amelia West of 3 Cottage Road, Ramsgate, Kent.
>
> Deck Hand;- Robert Bailey Fast. Age;- 25yrs. Son of Mary Ann Fast of 3
> Dove Cottages, King Street, Ramsgate, Kent.
>
> Deck Hand;- Edward John Miller. Age;- 31yrs. Son of the late Edward John
> and May Miller; husband of Sarah Lilian Miller (nee Boughton) of 13
> Hereson Road,
> Ramsgate, Kent (born Ramsgate).
>
> Trimmer;- James Frederick Cox. Age;- 45yrs. Son of the late George Daniel
> and Sarah Cox; husband of Charlotte Louisa Cox (nee Bond), of 6 St.James
> Square,
> Ramsgate, Kent.
> Born;-St.Peter's,Kent.
>
> Hope this helps with your research - if you have any further questions
> please do contact me.
>
> Very best regards
>
> Terry
>
>
>
> Terry Wheeler
> The Ramsgate Historical Society
> https://www.facebook.com/RAMSGATE.HISTORICAL.SOCIETY

Reply author: Kåarto
Replied on: 11/10/2013 15:57:35
Message:

Hi.
The birth of your Christian Tromm, it is hard nut to crack.

There are many pages in this topic, lots of names, so it is easy to get lost.

I look into this topic every day without any luck.
This is what genealogy sometimes is, but suddnly new info appears that need to be examined.

I spend several years to find one of my ancestors.

Do not give up

Kåre

Reply author: jungfigh
Replied on: 11/10/2013 17:29:57
Message:

Good afternoon Kåre ,

Thank-you.

Yes it is an extremely onerous exercise.

I'm sure the answer lies within the thousands of words printed in Christian's topic...all is needed is a...the link..!

Your encouragement is welcomed. I know I'm new to this 'game' but it is so infectious.

I (WE) will get there.

Reply author: jungfigh
Replied on: 11/10/2013 22:11:11
Message:

A medallist in England put me onto this site. He says his monthly magazine states that ALL wills made by WW1 soldiers will eventually be on-line. At present only soldiers who were killed/died in action are available. He also says that it was mandatory for every soldier to make a will. That makes sense


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-23861821

Reply author: jungfigh
Replied on: 12/10/2013 10:57:32
Message:

As Kåre suggested... " Don't give up". I certainly won't.

I have been over and over and over again many times on the posts in this topic. Taking my own notes and expanding links to find Christian's connection...as you all know this can be very tiring...but...the link is here or coming from England..!

Reply author: Kåarto
Replied on: 12/10/2013 14:38:35
Message:

All probate records in Norway will be online in a "few years" and finally digitized and searcable (some are already) and free for anyone to use.
There Christian will be mentioned even though he has moved to another country.

Kåre

Reply author: jungfigh
Replied on: 12/10/2013 15:31:56
Message:

Thank-you Kåre.

I do hope I don't have to wait that long to establish Christian's past, but if, so be it.

Reply author: jungfigh
Replied on: 13/10/2013 11:39:20
Message:

I received from the National Archives UK indication that documents applied for are now ready...I paid on line for them...I'm told it will take 14 days from date of receipt for arrival...can you believe that..?!

The other documentation awaiting from England (7th October) still awaits..!....nil desperandum.

Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 13/10/2013 13:58:33
Message:

Hoping that Christian's will from his WWI will reveal something, also. Very interesting set of records, thanks for the reference to the article.

Reply author: jungfigh
Replied on: 13/10/2013 15:13:25
Message:

Jackie,

I have searched probate records in UK with regard a will made by Christian...negative.

If the only will (mandatory) were kept with his Army papers (destroyed)...we start again..!

Reply author: jungfigh
Replied on: 14/10/2013 18:26:48
Message:

Received in post 1 0f 3 requests.

2 more to follow. 'Sent separately for security'.

When all received I will post.

Reply author: jungfigh
Replied on: 15/10/2013 13:37:34
Message:

I have asked our Son, Darren, to assist in my quest...he travels to Norway a couple of times each year.

He tells me some of his friends are Genealogists.. Who knows...a different slant on things..?

Reply author: David Yaw
Replied on: 15/10/2013 23:39:15
Message:

quote:

---

Originally posted by jkmarler

Hoping that Christian's will from his WWI will reveal something, also. Very interesting set of records, thanks for the reference to the article.

---

Reply author: jwiborg
Replied on: 15/10/2013 23:57:52
Message:

quote:

---

Originally posted by David Yaw

Derek, I was at the main probate registry office in London this afternoon in connection with my own family research. I took the opportunity to check out the indexes for the years 1921 and 1922 for Thompson, Thomson and Tomson - regret to report no matches for Christian. Let's hope there is indeed a document from his army service, and that it wasn't with the rest of his records destroyed in that bombing raid.

---

Reply author: jungfigh
Replied on: 16/10/2013 02:35:54
Message:

quote:

---

Originally posted by David Yaw

quote:

---

Originally posted by jkmarler

Hoping that Christian's will from his WWI will reveal something, also. Very interesting set of records, thanks for the reference to the article.

---

Derek, I was at the main probate registry office in London this afternoon in connection with my own family research. I took the opportunity to check out the indexes for the years 1921 and 1922 for Thompson, Thomson and Tomson - regret to report no matches for Christian. Let's hope there is indeed a document from his army service, and that it wasn't with the rest of his records destroyed in that bombing raid.

---

Reply author: jungfigh
Replied on: 16/10/2013 02:40:57
Message:

quote:

---

Originally posted by jwiborg

quote:

---

Originally posted by David Yaw

Derek, I was at the main probate registry office in London this afternoon in connection with my own family research. I took the opportunity to check out the indexes for the years 1921 and 1922 for Thompson, Thomson and Tomson - regret to report no matches for Christian. Let's hope there is indeed a document from his army service, and that it wasn't with the rest of his records destroyed in that bombing raid.

---

Cristian Tompson died in January 1920, so maybe the probate was in 1920?

---

Reply author: jungfigh
Replied on: 18/10/2013 10:04:12
Message:

quote:

---

Originally posted by jungfigh

A medallist in England put me onto this site. He says his monthly magazine states that ALL wills made by WW1 soldiers will eventually be on-line. At present only soldiers who were killed/died in action are available. He also says that it was mandatory for every soldier to make a will. That makes sense


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-23861821

---

Reply author: jungfigh
Replied on: 18/10/2013 11:04:23
Message:

Unfortunately no information on the Will Christian had to submit.

Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 18/10/2013 19:16:29
Message:

The article link you posted earlier in the topic mentioned that the database online contains only those wills of men who were killed in action. Since Christian survived his military experience he is unlikely to be in the database. However, his will may have been preserved, but just not indexed.

Reply author: jungfigh
Replied on: 18/10/2013 22:10:40
Message:

I hope so Jackie.

I've still a few 'irons in the fire' pending from UK. Hopefully will have them sometime next week.

Reply author: jungfigh
Replied on: 21/10/2013 22:06:07
Message:

quote:

---

Originally posted by jungfigh

Dear Mr Borg.

That is my Maternal Grandmother (sitting) in the picture you posted. I don't know who the other lady is. One discrepancy: my Nan died about 1952. I was 8 years old.

I would like to thank all contributors in my search. I will scrutinise them all tomorrow...an early start beckons. Thank-you all.

---

Reply author: jungfigh
Replied on: 22/10/2013 12:19:39
Message:

One of the certificates received from England, the wedding of Cristian and Maud dated July 19th. 1903. The Parish Church (Christchurch Ramsgate). His Father Donald Tompson (carpenter), her Father Thomas Fast (fisherman).

Cristian and Maud were both shewn as living at the same address at the time of their wedlock.
Cristian signs as Cristian Tompson. ( No H ).
Maud signs as Maud Olivia Adams Fast. (not hyphenated)..

He 20 years.

She 17 years.

Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 22/10/2013 16:27:50
Message:

Just curious, topic is so big now can't remember if anyone has looked at the 1901 England census at the Fast family to see if they had other boarders or fisherman living with them that year...

Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 22/10/2013 16:39:53
Message:

Grasping for straws.....

Search criteria:
given name including rist: christ, christain, christan, christean, christen, christian, christin, christjan, cristen, cristian, krist, kristain, kristan, kristban, kristean, kristen, kristiae, kristian, kristinius, kristinn, kristion, kristjan, kristoval, kristpinus, kristtian, kristyen, krristian, risten

surname starting with to: tobias, tobiasen, tobiass, tobiassen, tobies, tobiesen, tolefsen, tolfsen, tolfsrød, tollags, tollaks, tollaksen, tollefs, tollefsen, tollefssøn, tollevs, tollevsen, tollis, tollisen, tollofs, tolløfsen, tomas, tomasen, tomass, tomassen, tomasson, tomassøn, tommas, tommasen, tommassen, tommasstuen, tommesen, torakilds, torberg, torbergsen, torbjørns, torbjørnsen, torbjørnsrud, torbjørs, tordsen, torers, tores, toresen, toreson, toress, toressen, torevalds, torgals, torgers, torgersen, torgerss, torgrims, torgunrud, torjes, torjesen, torjeson, torjus, torjusen, torjuss, torjussen, torjusson, torkels, torkelsen, torkelss, torkilds, torkildsen, torkils, torkilsen, tormodsen, torsen, torson, torsteins, torsteinsen, torstens, torstensen, torstenson, torvalds, torvaldsen, torvilds, torvilsøn, tossen, tostens, tostensen
birthyear 1883 +/- one year: 1882, 1883, 1884
occupation includes fis: fisker, fiskeri

Finds 5 possibles:
Rogalnd, Egersund
Kristian Torkildsen b. 1882 Egersunds ladestad sta; father’s full name and occupation not known from census entry since this Kristian is an employee:
http://digitalarkivet.uib.no/cgi-win/WebCens.exe?slag=visbase&sidenr=20&filnamn=f01116&gardpostnr=39&personpostnr=231&merk=231#ovre

Rogaland, Strand
Kristian Tostensen Fjelle b 1883 Strand; father Tosten Kristiansen Fjelle boat builder
http://digitalarkivet.uib.no/cgi-win/WebCens.exe?slag=visbase&sidenr=17&filnamn=f01130&gardpostnr=285&personpostnr=1596&merk=1596#ovre

Møre og Romsdal, Edø
Kristian Toresen b. 1883 Edø; listed as son of Paul Jakobsen, Kristian is temporarily away in Trondheim
http://digitalarkivet.uib.no/cgi-win/WebCens.exe?slag=visbase&sidenr=23&filnamn=f01573&gardpostnr=371&personpostnr=2439&merk=2439#ovre

Sør Trøndelag, Aa
Kristian Torbergsen b. 1884 Aa; son of Torberg Olsen
http://digitalarkivet.uib.no/cgi-win/WebCens.exe?slag=visbase&sidenr=26&filnamn=f01630&gardpostnr=308&personpostnr=2309&merk=2309#ovre

Nordland, Rødø
Kristian Torstensen b. 1884 Rødø; father is Torsten Hanssen
http://digitalarkivet.uib.no/cgi-win/WebCens.exe?slag=visbase&sidenr=29&filnamn=f01836&gardpostnr=91&personpostnr=589&merk=589#ovre

None are particularly enticing as no Donald for father, no birthplace or residence reminiscent of Trom or Lauden Vordner. Only one's father, Kristian from Strand, is demonstrably a carpenter (boat building requires carpentry unless one building a metal ship).

But at least this is on the wall....

Reply author: jungfigh
Replied on: 22/10/2013 16:48:25
Message:

Thank-you for your continuing help Jackie...we'll get there.

Reply author: jungfigh
Replied on: 22/10/2013 17:14:29
Message:

quote:

---

Originally posted by jkmarler

Just curious, topic is so big now can't remember if anyone has looked at the 1901 England census at the Fast family to see if they had other boarders or fisherman living with them that year...

---

Reply author: jungfigh
Replied on: 23/10/2013 22:22:17
Message:

I've widened my search: Lloyds of London ( ship losses, etc). and similar to try to establish Cristian's date of birth. It must be recorded somewhere.

Reply author: jungfigh
Replied on: 26/10/2013 20:04:40
Message:

Dear Lawbuary,
Thank you for your email which has been passed to me.
Unfortunately we do not keep records of crew, however I have attached one of our infosheets with other places for you to contact.
If you want details of the ship just let me know and I will see if we had a record of her.

Regards,
Anne Cowne
Information Officer, Information Centre
Group Communications

Lloyd's Register Group Services Limited,
71 Fenchurch Street, London EC3M 4BS, UK
T +44 (0)20 7423 2475 F +44 (0)20 7423 2039
E anne.cowne@lr.org W http://www.lr.org
Enhancing the safety of life and property for the benefit of the public and the environment


Lloyd's Register Group Services Limited (Reg. no. 6193893) is a limited company registered in England and Wales. Registered office: 71 Fenchurch Street, London, EC3M 4BS, UK. A subsidiary of Lloyd's Register Group Limited.

Lloyd's Register Group Limited, its affiliates and subsidiaries and their respective officers, employees or agents are, individually and collectively, referred to in this clause as 'Lloyd's Register'. Lloyd's Register assumes no responsibility and shall not be liable to any person for any loss, damage or expense caused by reliance on the information or advice in this document or howsoever provided, unless that person has signed a contract with the relevant Lloyd's Register entity for the provision of this information or advice and in that case any responsibility or liability is exclusively on the terms and conditions set out in that contract.


________________________________________
From: lloydsreg@lr.org
Sent: 25 October 2013 09:42:01 (UTC) Dublin, Edinburgh, Lisbon, London
To: Enquiry for lr.org
Subject: Request for information from Group web site

Reply author: jwiborg
Replied on: 27/10/2013 15:15:56
Message:

On behalf of Derek Lawburary.

Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 27/10/2013 16:51:43
Message:

Does the Adams in Maud's name relate to the John William Adams who was a witness to the wedding?

Since the banns were read is there any record within the church of those and who the bondsmen/goormsmen for the ceremony might have been?

Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 27/10/2013 17:47:17
Message:

Another thing for the wall:

Looking strictly at the 1900 Norwegian census, exact use of spelling of Cristian, birthyear 1883+/-1 year finds 2:

Cristian Sigfred Opperud b. 1882 Larvik glaspuster son of Fredrick also a glaspuster:
http://digitalarkivet.no/cgi-win/WebCens.exe?slag=visbase&sidenr=6&filnamn=f00707&gardpostnr=2172&personpostnr=9970&merk=9970#ovre

Cristian Karls b. 1884 Sarpsborg father is Karl Clausen a tømmerskriver some kind of lumber related occupation:
http://digitalarkivet.no/cgi-win/WebCens.exe?slag=visbase&sidenr=9&filnamn=f00130&gardpostnr=856&personpostnr=5733&merk=5733#ovre

Reply author: jwiborg
Replied on: 27/10/2013 18:21:13
Message:

A tømmerskriver is an accountant at a lumber storage.


Lumber storage

Reply author: jungfigh
Replied on: 28/10/2013 05:28:07
Message:

quote:

---

Originally posted by jwiborg


On behalf of Derek Lawburary.

---

Reply author: jungfigh
Replied on: 28/10/2013 05:30:40
Message:

quote:

---

Originally posted by jkmarler

Does the Adams in Maud's name relate to the John William Adams who was a witness to the wedding?

Since the banns were read is there any record within the church of those and who the bondsmen/goormsmen for the ceremony might have been?

---

Reply author: jungfigh
Replied on: 28/10/2013 05:35:03
Message:

quote:

---

Originally posted by jwiborg

A tømmerskriver is an accountant at a lumber storage.


Lumber storage

---

Reply author: jungfigh
Replied on: 30/10/2013 12:27:42
Message:

I have been, nearly continually on the telephone to the Lloyd's Southampton office (e-mail previously sent) who may have the date and place of birth for Cristian. Unfortunately, I've had to dwell a while for another day.

Reply author: jungfigh
Replied on: 01/11/2013 06:20:17
Message:

We have found documentation that shews Cristian's place of birth as Waldon. No date. Is there such a place, village/hamlet in Norway..?

Reply author: jungfigh
Replied on: 01/11/2013 07:44:38
Message:

Thank-you Jane:

I made a mistake with the spelling. It is WALDEN. It was found on the Mercantile list of deceased seamen, which required nationality and place of birth. Although it shewed Cristian as British at time of death in 1920, his place of birth is shewn Walden. Nothing further.

Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 01/11/2013 12:32:19
Message:

There are few places which start with W in Norway (1 only in my undated KNA book) but plenty of places that start with V. So my guess would be Valden, Volden or the like. So 2 syllables starting with V containing a d. Some of these are parishes, some just places:

Valden
Valders
Velde
Verdal
Volda
Volden

Reply author: Kåarto
Replied on: 01/11/2013 14:03:30
Message:

Walden, changed from Valden, Wolden or Volden?
It was a large number of Volden farm (1878 persons) in Norway in 1900, 36 persons on Valden farms, 14 persons on Wolden farms.

Kåre

Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 01/11/2013 15:09:37
Message:

Thinking making a Norwegian place name into English spelling-- I searched at www.familysearch.org for any person listed with a birthplace of Walden, Norway.

Most interesting is this fellow Ole Pulers b. Walden, Norway living in Kent, England in 1901 1911 my bad:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XWDD-HXP

And then these men in United States:

Ole Andrew Nauvued b. abt 1887 son of Sven S Nauvued
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XJDJ-ZQV

Severt Johannes Siverson b. 14 July 1886:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/29J7-849

#20
Source information: Møre og Romsdal county, Volda in Volda, Parish register (official) nr. 511A08 (1878-1890), Birth and baptism records 1886, page 101.
Permanent pagelink: www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=6803&idx_id=6803&uid=ny&idx_side=-112" target="_blank">http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=6803&idx_id=6803&uid=ny&idx_side=-112

Matt Olsen b 27 Sept 1889
Specified as born Walden, Gulbransdal, Norway
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/K87N-42K

Nels Veflin b. 2 Nov 1890
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/K6Z1-NF4

Edwin Semling b. 11 Feb 1887
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/K6ZJ-XLZ

Some of the farmnames become surnames of these fellows might indicate a parish in which to look for Cristian.

Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 02/11/2013 00:47:12
Message:

Here is another one for the wall, way off the wall. #49 Kristian Elias Danielson b 2 Nov 1882 son of Daniel Danielson and Johanne Ananiasdtr, living on Strømme:

Source information: Møre og Romsdal county, Volda in Volda, Parish register copy nr. 511C03 (1864-1884), Birth and baptism records 1882, page 298.
Permanent pagelink: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=15961&idx_id=15961&uid=ny&idx_side=-269


The father's occupation of strandsitter is, if I remember correctly, a coast watcher like a lighthouse keeper, but not a carpenter.

#39 Kristian Elias Danielsen confirmation:
Source information: Møre og Romsdal county, Volda in Volda, Parish register copy nr. 511C04 (1884-1903), Confirmation records 1898, page 243.
Permanent pagelink: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=6477&idx_id=6477&uid=ny&idx_side=-233


Here the father is with many of his family in 1875 on Strømme:
http://digitalarkivet.uib.no/cgi-win/WebCens.exe?slag=visbase&sidenr=6&filnamn=f71519&gardpostnr=689&merk=689#ovre

The parents of Kristian Elias marriage #17:
Source information: Møre og Romsdal county, Volda in Volda, Parish register copy nr. 511C03 (1864-1884), Marriage records 1877, page 35.
Permanent pagelink: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=15961&idx_id=15961&uid=ny&idx_side=-36

Here is Daniel Strømme in 1900 with occupation defined as stenarbeider and snedker (carpenter) , Kristian is not at home,
http://digitalarkivet.uib.no/cgi-win/WebCens.exe?slag=visbase&sidenr=2&filnamn=f01519&gardpostnr=494&merk=494#ovre

Here is Daniel Strømme & family in 1910:
http://digitalarkivet.arkivverket.no/ft/person/pf01036754002642

Reply author: jungfigh
Replied on: 02/11/2013 06:25:37
Message:

Thank-you Jackie, Kåre.

It is such a coincidence that two official English documents, for two different Norwegian Men shew Walden, as their place of birth. Was there ever such a place, or as, suggested, corrupted down the line..?

This quest is so intriguing that it becomes exhausting at times.But we'll get there..!

Reply author: jungfigh
Replied on: 02/11/2013 08:12:56
Message:

Could either of these be Cristian's birthplace..?


http://www.geographic.org/geographic_names/name.php?uni=-440013&fid=4436&c=norway

http://www.indexmundi.com/z/?lat=63.7&lon=8.5666667&t=p&r=8840&p=volden&cc=no&c=norway

Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 03/11/2013 02:27:55
Message:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kåarto

Walden, changed from Valden, Wolden or Volden?
It was a large number of Volden farm (1878 persons) in Norway in 1900, 36 persons on Valden farms, 14 persons on Wolden farms.
Kåre

---

Reply author: jungfigh
Replied on: 03/11/2013 06:51:02
Message:

Phew: Great information Jackie, Thank-you very much. The search continues..!

Reply author: jwiborg
Replied on: 03/11/2013 09:42:55
Message:

Without seeing the above replies, I also noticed this Kristian Elias Danielson b 02 Nov 1882 in Volda. He seems like a plausible clue.

My best guess for place of birth "Wolden" is Volda in Møre og Romsdal county.

ps: A strandsitter was a man who did not own any land, but owned a house on rented ground, preferably near the coast. Normally they paid rent for this lease.

Reply author: jungfigh
Replied on: 03/11/2013 10:34:29
Message:

One of the links I found:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volda

Thank-you Jan Peter. Volda is very well documented on line.

Reply author: jwiborg
Replied on: 03/11/2013 12:10:15
Message:

Great link. You see the name change from Volden to Volda took place in 1918. Now it would be great to find his date of birth in some english records. Could it be 02 NOV 1882?

His father was listed as Donald..., which could fit with Daniel. Could "Thompson" be made up, for simplicity...?

Reply author: jungfigh
Replied on: 03/11/2013 14:22:57
Message:

Great train of thought Jan Peter. I'm on the case..!

Reply author: jwiborg
Replied on: 03/11/2013 14:37:15
Message:

For the record, Daniel Strømme (1854-) is on this family page.
But his son Christian born 02 Nov 1882 is not listed, so the manager of the webpage obviously doesn't know about him.

Daniels occupation is listed as woodwork and carpentry. It's also interesting that his older brother Annanias was a seaman.

Reply author: jwiborg
Replied on: 03/11/2013 14:58:53
Message:

Another family page.
iii. Kristian Elias Danielsson Straume, f. 02.11.1882, d. 1918, emigrert til Amerika.
Where would this info come from? It says he emigrated to America, and died in 1918. It is possible that it could be England and 1920...?

There is an e-mail link to the web-owner at the bottom left of this page. He states on his webpage that "If you find errors in my reports or have additional information, I would be very happy for an email!"

It also says his brother Ananias Johannes Danielsson Straume born 13 Feb 1880 emigrated to England.(!!!)

Reply author: jwiborg
Replied on: 03/11/2013 15:12:42
Message:

quote:

---

Originally posted by jungfigh

It is such a coincidence that two official English documents, for two different Norwegian Men shew Walden, as their place of birth.

---

Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 03/11/2013 15:36:53
Message:

Too real, maybe the brothers' destinations were turned around?

The names are at the top of page 15 this post...

Evolution of the name Trom to Thompson. (Cristian)

Evolution of the farm name Strømme to Straume (Norway)

Perhaps the Trom comes from a slightly remembered Strømme?

Reply author: Kåarto
Replied on: 03/11/2013 16:13:09
Message:

quote:

---

Originally posted by jwiborg

Without seeing the above replies, I also noticed this Kristian Elias Danielson b 02 Nov 1882 in Volda. He seems like a plausible clue.

My best guess for place of birth "Wolden" is Volda in Møre og Romsdal county.

---

Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 03/11/2013 16:25:08
Message:

Here is one of the Christian Stromme found in US records, arriving New York in 1910:

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/JJFY-Z31

There is no one named Ananias in 1910 Norway born Volden with the birthdate of 13 Feb 1880--so he left Norway between 1900 & 1910 or died between those dates.

Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 03/11/2013 19:02:04
Message:

Derek, you have mentioned that the service records of WWI Brits were destroyed. But apparently there are some fragments left. There is this database at www.familysearch.org. It's not searchable in that there is no search engine yet available for it but it is browseable... Here is small description of contents and the page link to the 43,000,000 records:

"United Kingdom, World War I Service Records, 1914-1920
Description
This collection contains World War I service records from 1914-1920. It contains records from two publications in the National Archives: WO 363 (War Office: Soldiers' Documents, First World War "Burnt Documents") and WO 364 (War Office: Documents from Pension Claims, First World War)."

https://familysearch.org/search/collection/2125045

Perhaps, if Maude never remarried she might have claimed a pension based on her husband's service....

Unfortunately there is a caveat on the use of these images:
"
Image Visiblity
Whenever possible, Family Search makes images available for all users. However, ultimate rights to view images on our website are granted by the record Custodians, The National Archives. The United Kingdom, World War I Service Records, 1914-1920 collection is available to the Family History Library, FamilySearch Centers, and to members of the supporting organization, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. The images can be viewed at a FamilySearch Center near you. "

Which restrictions apparently keep any old internet user from seeing them...

Is there a Family History Center in Malta?

Reply author: jwiborg
Replied on: 03/11/2013 22:18:45
Message:

I sent a mail to the owner of the website containing Kristian Elias Danielsson Straume.
He replied quite fast, and said that the info about this Kristian emigrating to America probably were taken from the book "Busetnadssoga for Volda", Volume 2 Folkestad, Kilsfjorden, Bjørkedalen", by Olav Myklebust, Eldar Høidal, Arnfinn Kjelland.

But he didn't know this family good enough to add any value to whether Kristian Elias Danielsson Straume could be connected to Cristian Tompson...

Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 03/11/2013 22:48:29
Message:

Interesting the Busadd... etc books are a newer publishing impulse in the 2000 + up years. Perhaps the authors are still living?

I guess I would be curious what the source is for information about the dates on the brothers and locations. If, for instance, it was in the old man's (Daniel Danielsen's) dødsfallsprotokol in 1942 as a list of children or what? Or a family memory? Or a letter? Knowing the source would be so helpful....

Reply author: jwiborg
Replied on: 04/11/2013 00:07:29
Message:

quote:

---

Originally posted by jkmarler

Interesting the Busadd... etc books are a newer publishing impulse in the 2000 + up years. Perhaps the authors are still living?

---

Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 04/11/2013 00:11:45
Message:

quote:

---

Originally posted by jungfigh

Phew: Great information Jackie, Thank-you very much. The search continues..!

---

Reply author: jungfigh
Replied on: 04/11/2013 11:46:50
Message:

As an old cynic I appreciate that jackie..!

An amazing input over the past 24 hrs.

Please, all, give me time to digest and replies will be sent where needed...Thank-you all. You're gems.

Reply author: jungfigh
Replied on: 05/11/2013 06:49:18
Message:

quote:

---

Originally posted by jwiborg

quote:

---

Originally posted by jungfigh

It is such a coincidence that two official English documents, for two different Norwegian Men shew Walden, as their place of birth.

---

What's the name of the other person with p.o.b. = Walden?

---

Reply author: jungfigh
Replied on: 05/11/2013 06:51:59
Message:

quote:

---

Originally posted by jkmarler

Derek, you have mentioned that the service records of WWI Brits were destroyed. But apparently there are some fragments left. There is this database at www.familysearch.org. It's not searchable in that there is no search engine yet available for it but it is browseable... Here is small description of contents and the page link to the 43,000,000 records:

"United Kingdom, World War I Service Records, 1914-1920
Description
This collection contains World War I service records from 1914-1920. It contains records from two publications in the National Archives: WO 363 (War Office: Soldiers' Documents, First World War "Burnt Documents") and WO 364 (War Office: Documents from Pension Claims, First World War)."

https://familysearch.org/search/collection/2125045

Perhaps, if Maude never remarried she might have claimed a pension based on her husband's service....

Unfortunately there is a caveat on the use of these images:
"
Image Visiblity
Whenever possible, Family Search makes images available for all users. However, ultimate rights to view images on our website are granted by the record Custodians, The National Archives. The United Kingdom, World War I Service Records, 1914-1920 collection is available to the Family History Library, FamilySearch Centers, and to members of the supporting organization, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. The images can be viewed at a FamilySearch Center near you. "

Which restrictions apparently keep any old internet user from seeing them...

Is there a Family History Center in Malta?

---

Reply author: jungfigh
Replied on: 05/11/2013 06:57:06
Message:

quote:

---

Originally posted by jkmarler

Derek, you have mentioned that the service records of WWI Brits were destroyed. But apparently there are some fragments left. There is this database at www.familysearch.org. It's not searchable in that there is no search engine yet available for it but it is browseable... Here is small description of contents and the page link to the 43,000,000 records:

"United Kingdom, World War I Service Records, 1914-1920
Description
This collection contains World War I service records from 1914-1920. It contains records from two publications in the National Archives: WO 363 (War Office: Soldiers' Documents, First World War "Burnt Documents") and WO 364 (War Office: Documents from Pension Claims, First World War)."

https://familysearch.org/search/collection/2125045

Perhaps, if Maude never remarried she might have claimed a pension based on her husband's service....

Unfortunately there is a caveat on the use of these images:
"
Image Visiblity
Whenever possible, Family Search makes images available for all users. However, ultimate rights to view images on our website are granted by the record Custodians, The National Archives. The United Kingdom, World War I Service Records, 1914-1920 collection is available to the Family History Library, FamilySearch Centers, and to members of the supporting organization, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. The images can be viewed at a FamilySearch Center near you. "

Which restrictions apparently keep any old internet user from seeing them...

Is there a Family History Center in Malta?

---

Reply author: jungfigh
Replied on: 06/11/2013 16:05:14
Message:

I received documentation from the National Archives today. All about Campanula, but, nothing on her crew at time of loss.

Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 07/11/2013 03:09:05
Message:

Well, you could visit the family history center then to see what the "burnt" records contain.

You might also want to see if family members, descendants of Kristian Elias' siblings who stayed in Norway, know anything. I'd suggest www.1881.no There are about 20 or so people with the last name Straume in Volda and with luck you might find via calling one who is an historically informed family member. The younger folks mostly all speak English, the elders probably understand but haven't used the bits they've heard. The site also has a nice map feature.

Reply author: jungfigh
Replied on: 07/11/2013 04:38:45
Message:

Thank-you so much Jackie. I'll contact them.

Reply author: jungfigh
Replied on: 07/11/2013 04:44:29
Message:

Also recently received from Southampton City Archives:

Dear Derek,



Thank you for your email.



We hold here the Central Index (or 4th) Register of Merchant Seamen 1918-41 which includes details of those serving on board British-registered vessels from 1918 to 1941.

The Register consists of 4 series of index cards – two are arranged in alphabetical order (CR1 & CR10) and two in discharge number order (CR2 & Combined Series). For a full search of the Register we make a charge of £15 which entitles you to a search of up to 3 people with the same family surname and to black and white photocopies of anything we happen to find. Alternativately you are very welcome to come and search the register for free (copies of any documents would incur a charge of 25p per A4 copy). We are open on Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday 10 – 4, although it is worth noting that we can not produce any records from our strong rooms between 12.30 – 1.30 on all three days.

I hope the above helps in the first instance.



Best wishes,

Angie Mew,

Collections (Access and Care) Assistant,

Arts and Heritage,



Environment & Economy Directorate

Southampton City Council, Civic Centre, Southampton SO14 7LY

Tel: 023 8083 2251

Reply author: jungfigh
Replied on: 07/11/2013 11:15:36
Message:

Enquiries made with above:

Promising.

A hard copy of their findings will be sent to me.

Reply author: jungfigh
Replied on: 09/11/2013 12:39:39
Message:

Many calls to different agencies have so far proved negative.

Tomorrow is Remembrance Day. Celebrated in the UK. And other Countries.

Also by me here in Malta by flying the Union Flag above The Cross of St. George.

I know this isn't in the search for Cristian, but Join with me to remember ALL that have died in Wars to give us our lifestyle.

Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 09/11/2013 14:53:05
Message:

Hear! Hear!

Reply author: jungfigh
Replied on: 09/11/2013 19:42:59
Message:

Thank-you Jackie.

Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 10/11/2013 01:37:21
Message:

quote:

---

Originally posted by jwiborg

Rose Malinda Joanna Tompson
Christening: 12 Jul 1905, St. Paul's, Ramsgate, Kent, England
Father's Name: Christine Tompson
Mother's Name: Maud Olivia Tompson

Jan Peter

---

Reply author: jungfigh
Replied on: 10/11/2013 06:36:35
Message:

Yes Jackie we do have the full names of all the children:

The Boys' are straightforward, Thomas & Frank.

Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 10/11/2013 06:49:52
Message:

Who were the godparents at their baptisms?

Reply author: jungfigh
Replied on: 11/11/2013 05:57:08
Message:

That's a poser at present Jackie. I'm sure we may have the information somewhere...but where..?

Another entry inserted on to my increasing ' to do ' list..!

Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 11/11/2013 06:58:59
Message:

quote:

---

Originally posted by jungfigh

That's a poser at present Jackie. I'm sure we may have the information somewhere...but where..?

Another entry inserted on to my increasing ' to do ' list..!

---

Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 11/11/2013 07:35:48
Message:

Was a death certificate ever issued on Cristian? It's hard to get one generally without remains but....

Do you have the d.c. of each of the children of Cristian & Maude? The modern d.c. in America have room for information about the parents' names and birth places, perhaps the modern British d.c. do also? The value of each of the children's is that it might show a transformation in the name or placename.

On Saturday I had a look at the original record of Kristian Strommen 1901 census listing and Ole Pulers in 1911.

This Kristian is one of only 5 or 6 crew, is given the status of AB which I think might mean "Able bodied" and the ship he was one was the Rapide of Shoreham. But the last name did look like Strommen rather than Stromme or Strommer.

Ole Pulers was indexed in Ancestry as M Pulers and the town is written in a fashion which to me looked like Wolden rather than Walden. The schedule at the top also said that it was taken in Scotland.

Reply author: David Yaw
Replied on: 11/11/2013 09:45:59
Message:

quote:

---

Originally posted by jungfigh

Yes Jackie we do have the full names of all the children:

The Boys' are straightforward, Thomas & Frank.

---

Reply author: David Yaw
Replied on: 11/11/2013 10:02:24
Message:

quote:

---

Originally posted by jkmarler

Was a death certificate ever issued on Cristian? It's hard to get one generally without remains but....

Do you have the d.c. of each of the children of Cristian & Maude? The modern d.c. in America have room for information about the parents' names and birth places, perhaps the modern British d.c. do also? The value of each of the children's is that it might show a transformation in the name or placename.

On Saturday I had a look at the original record of Kristian Strommen 1901 census listing and Ole Pulers in 1911.

This Kristian is one of only 5 or 6 crew, is given the status of AB which I think might mean "Able bodied" and the ship he was one was the Rapide of Shoreham. But the last name did look like Strommen rather than Stromme or Strommer.

Ole Pulers was indexed in Ancestry as M Pulers and the town is written in a fashion which to me looked like Wolden rather than Walden. The schedule at the top also said that it was taken in Scotland.

---

Reply author: David Yaw
Replied on: 11/11/2013 11:17:12
Message:

quote:

---

Originally posted by David Yaw

quote:

---

Originally posted by jkmarler

Was a death certificate ever issued on Cristian? It's hard to get one generally without remains but....

Do you have the d.c. of each of the children of Cristian & Maude? The modern d.c. in America have room for information about the parents' names and birth places, perhaps the modern British d.c. do also? The value of each of the children's is that it might show a transformation in the name or placename.

On Saturday I had a look at the original record of Kristian Strommen 1901 census listing and Ole Pulers in 1911.

This Kristian is one of only 5 or 6 crew, is given the status of AB which I think might mean "Able bodied" and the ship he was one was the Rapide of Shoreham. But the last name did look like Strommen rather than Stromme or Strommer.

Ole Pulers was indexed in Ancestry as M Pulers and the town is written in a fashion which to me looked like Wolden rather than Walden. The schedule at the top also said that it was taken in Scotland.

---

Jackie, I agree with you about Kristian. The mate who completed the census form has clearly legible handwriting - the ending of Kristian's family name as Strommen is consistent with the way he has written the endings of two other crew members - OS (Ordinary Seaman) Robson and Wilson. (and yes, AB does stand for Able Bodied, next rank after OS)

I also noticed the census form for Ole Pulers is on a return form for Scotland, although transcribed for Swanscombe, Kent. I guess there could be two explanations for this - either the person conducting the census had been undertaking this task in both England & Wales and in Scotland and simply ran out of forms or used the wrong one. Unlikely, since the returns were normally overseen by the local Customs Officers.

Or the census return form has been mis-filed when the returns were collated centrally - the records either side of it in the series are indeed for Swanscombe. If Scotland is correct, Ole was several hundred miles away from Kent. Note Ole is recorded as single, b ca 1875.

---

Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 11/11/2013 13:22:54
Message:

Yes the link to stones of the Gravminner database in Ancestry only comes to the main search engine in Gravminner. For some reason the links to Gravminner don't seem to last. But here is one of 18 Kristian Strømmen entries at Gravminner the one you mentioned as at Drammen:

http://www.disnorge.no/gravminner/bilde.php?id=3749001

Name Kristian Strømmen
Birth date 1879
Died date 1957
Square CA
Row 06
Grave number 002
Obituary Guds Fred
Cemetery Skoger
County/Municipality Buskerud/Drammen
Registrations by Kirkevergen i Drammen
Transcriber Kirkevergen + Anne-Lise Skillinghaug
Registration finished Mars 2012
Notes
Photographer Liv Ofsdal
About the registration Kirkevergens database + gravminnene

Of the 4 Kristian Strømmen in the 1910 Norwegian census, there are 2 that are under 10 years of age b Aadalen (a location in Buskerud fylke), one born 1884 Hitra, and one born 1889. The Hitra fellow is a fisherman.

The reason for the interest in this fellow is a possible source of the name Tromm in England. I can't say with any certainty or liklihood that any of the Kristian Strømmen found in Norwegian census are the equivalent of the fellow in the 1901 English census.

Reply author: David Yaw
Replied on: 11/11/2013 16:17:57
Message:

quote:

---

Originally posted by jkmarler

Yes the link to stones of the Gravminner database in Ancestry only comes to the main search engine in Gravminner. For some reason the links to Gravminner don't seem to last. But here is one of 18 Kristian Strømmen entries at Gravminner the one you mentioned as at Drammen:

http://www.disnorge.no/gravminner/bilde.php?id=3749001

Name Kristian Strømmen
Birth date 1879
Died date 1957
Square CA
Row 06
Grave number 002
Obituary Guds Fred
Cemetery Skoger
County/Municipality Buskerud/Drammen
Registrations by Kirkevergen i Drammen
Transcriber Kirkevergen + Anne-Lise Skillinghaug
Registration finished Mars 2012
Notes
Photographer Liv Ofsdal
About the registration Kirkevergens database + gravminnene

Of the 4 Kristian Strømmen in the 1910 Norwegian census, there are 2 that are under 10 years of age b Aadalen (a location in Buskerud fylke), one born 1884 Hitra, and one born 1889. The Hitra fellow is a fisherman.

The reason for the interest in this fellow is a possible source of the name Tromm in England. I can't say with any certainty or liklihood that any of the Kristian Strømmen found in Norwegian census are the equivalent of the fellow in the 1901 English census.

---

Reply author: Kåarto
Replied on: 11/11/2013 16:30:19
Message:

quote:

---

Originally posted by jkmarler

quote:

---

Originally posted by jwiborg

Rose Malinda Joanna Tompson
Christening: 12 Jul 1905, St. Paul's, Ramsgate, Kent, England
Father's Name: Christine Tompson
Mother's Name: Maud Olivia Tompson

Jan Peter

---

Derek do you have the full complement of names of all the children? The typical naming custom in Norway (earlier in the 1800s, that is, not so much in later years) was to name the first children after their grandparents. It might be of interest if either of the boys have Daniel or Donald (but most especially Daniel)in their full extended name.

---

Reply author: David Yaw
Replied on: 11/11/2013 16:38:39
Message:

quote:

---

Originally posted by jkmarler

Strommen could be a last name or the name of a farm. Here are two Kristian Strøm and Kristian Strømmen. The Strømmen is a bit youngish to be a fellow marrying in 1903 unless there's an error in the birthyear in the census. The other is not living with parents but is a "pleie" a foster child.:

Kristian Strøm 1900 Norway b. 1884 Hammerø:
http://digitalarkivet.uib.no/cgi-win/WebCens.exe?slag=visbase&sidenr=7&filnamn=f01917&gardpostnr=338&personpostnr=2149&merk=2149#ovre

Kristian Strømmen b. 1889 Bokns Rogaland Norway in 1900:
http://digitalarkivet.uib.no/cgi-win/WebCens.exe?slag=visbase&sidenr=34&filnamn=f01145&gardpostnr=127&personpostnr=680&merk=680#ovre

Birthyear not in error, #1 Sigvald Kristian:
Source information: Rogaland county, Bokn in Tysvær, Parish register (official) nr. A 7 (1878-1897), Birth and baptism records 1890, page 29.
Permanent pagelink: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=6362&idx_id=6362&uid=ny&idx_side=-32

---

Reply author: jungfigh
Replied on: 11/11/2013 18:05:13
Message:

quote:

---

Originally posted by jkmarler

Was a death certificate ever issued on Cristian? It's hard to get one generally without remains but....

Do you have the d.c. of each of the children of Cristian & Maude? The modern d.c. in America have room for information about the parents' names and birth places, perhaps the modern British d.c. do also? The value of each of the children's is that it might show a transformation in the name or placename.

On Saturday I had a look at the original record of Kristian Strommen 1901 census listing and Ole Pulers in 1911.

This Kristian is one of only 5 or 6 crew, is given the status of AB which I think might mean "Able bodied" and the ship he was one was the Rapide of Shoreham. But the last name did look like Strommen rather than Stromme or Strommer.

Ole Pulers was indexed in Ancestry as M Pulers and the town is written in a fashion which to me looked like Wolden rather than Walden. The schedule at the top also said that it was taken in Scotland.

---

Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 11/11/2013 21:13:38
Message:

quote:

---

Originally posted by David Yaw
[
But one that did catch my eye was your find for Kristian Strom in the above link to the Norwegian 1900 census as a foster-child, born Hammero in 1884.

Was he fostered because his parent(s) died, or maybe just couldn't afford to bring him up ??

---

Reply author: Kåarto
Replied on: 11/11/2013 21:14:17
Message:

Hi.
The foster son Kristian Strøm was born on Hamarøy

Kåre

Reply author: Kåarto
Replied on: 11/11/2013 21:36:55
Message:

Kristian Strøm born July 28.m 1884 in Trondheim/ or Hammarøy?

Same person or a name sake born on Hamarøy July 28. 1884 and lived in Norway, sorry, link

Kåre

Reply author: David Yaw
Replied on: 11/11/2013 21:41:00
Message:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kåarto

Hi.
The foster son Kristian Strøm was born on Hamarøy

Kåre

---

Reply author: David Yaw
Replied on: 11/11/2013 22:33:26
Message:

quote:

---

Originally posted by jkmarler

Peculiar, there is another Kristian Strommen a sailor in 1901 in England. This found in familysearch:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XSF3-3D5

---

Reply author: Kåarto
Replied on: 12/11/2013 00:05:10
Message:

This Christian Strømmen in Southampton 1901, his birth place S Norwegian or "Sør Norge" (South Norwegian/Southern Norway) can have two meanings.
1) Norway "Sør-Norge" Southern Norway are the counties south of Nordland county, but traditionally were the two counties Nord-Trøndelag and Sør-Trøndelag considered to be a part of "Nordenfjelske" Northern Norway.
S Norway ca 1900; The counties south of Sør-Trøndelag.

2) Todays "Sørlandet" Southern Norway, the coast of the two counties Vest-Agder and Aust-Agder were before 1902 considered beeing a part of Western Norway.

If S Norwegian stands for "Sør Norsk" or "Sørlending" South Norwegian the two Agder counties seems to be most correct.

Kåre

Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 12/11/2013 01:02:57
Message:

quote:

---

Originally posted by David Yaw

quote:

---

Originally posted by jkmarler

Peculiar, there is another Kristian Strommen a sailor in 1901 in England. This found in familysearch:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XSF3-3D5

---

Jackie,

This Kristian Strommen was picked up in previous postings. What is intriguing is he is the only Norwegian aboard a British vessel with a small crew in Southampton - just 100km away from Ramsgate where Cristian Tompson marries and is settled in the 1911 census. Kristian Strommen's stated yob is 1883 - and that corresponds with Cristian Tompson's stated yob in the 1911 census. Tantalising, but not surely not enough in its own to confirm these are indeed one and the same person ???

---

Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 12/11/2013 01:08:37
Message:

The Sjøhistorie site has only two persons with the last name Strømmen, both appear to be this man. Of the 9000 or so sailors in the database they are supposed to be southern Norway sailors:

Ole Larsen (Strømmen)
Født:13.09.1878Fødested:Holt Sogn
Bosted:Holt, rode 51, Lauget
Foreldre:Sagarb. Karl Larsen og Maren Olsen
Annotasjonsrulle:U-26, Patent 2565Andre opplysninger

09.05.1895: Førstereisgutt, mønstret i Risør til skip "RUDOLF", mønstret av i Bergen 21.12.1895.

14.02.1900: Udslettet av Rullen paa grund af Mangel paa Lovbestemt Fart.

If there is a reasonable certainty that Cristian Tromm / Tompson was a sailor in Norway before he came to England it might be of value to search for these sailor's records for him:
http://www.norwayheritage.com/articles/templates/genealogy.asp?articleid=4&zoneid=2

Hopefully there will be a death certificate containing a birthdate and other information for Cristian.

Reply author: jungfigh
Replied on: 12/11/2013 05:25:30
Message:

Certainly a lot of work has been undertaken by you tireless genealogists during the past two days...Thank-you so much.

I haven't been sitting on my hands. A lot of time on the telephone yesterday to various military, civil institutions. Unfortunately no further forward at this stage.

Reply author: David Yaw
Replied on: 12/11/2013 11:24:17
Message:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kåarto

This Christian Strømmen in Southampton 1901, his birth place S Norwegian or "Sør Norge" (South Norwegian/Southern Norway) can have two meanings.
1) Norway "Sør-Norge" Southern Norway are the counties south of Nordland county, but traditionally were the two counties Nord-Trøndelag and Sør-Trøndelag considered to be a part of "Nordenfjelske" Northern Norway.
S Norway ca 1900; The counties south of Sør-Trøndelag.

2) Todays "Sørlandet" Southern Norway, the coast of the two counties Vest-Agder and Aust-Agder were before 1902 considered beeing a part of Western Norway.

If S Norwegian stands for "Sør Norsk" or "Sørlending" South Norwegian the two Agder counties seems to be most correct.

Kåre

---

Reply author: Kåarto
Replied on: 12/11/2013 13:13:52
Message:

Hello David.
Perhaps you are right.
I did not think of that.
I thought perhaps the info S Norwegian came from Christian, but he had most likley given the name of region or place in Norway.
Christian is a hard nut to crack

Most likely he came to England before 1900.
I have a feeling he was a "førstereisgutt" a deck boy who perhaps jumped of the ship in England.

Just a thought;
To me it looks like the reason he used an English name of his father was because he did not want to be found.
I do not know if the English authorities at that time required a birth certificate or passport to get married in England?

Another shot in the dark:
Christian Tromm, Christian Strømm.
Christian Strømm born on or connected to the island Trommøya outside Arendal town, Aust-Agder county.

Kåre

Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 12/11/2013 17:01:54
Message:

Cristian was an engineer on the trawler (as I recall). Is there some kind of licensure or training requirements to be an engineer on a vessel? Is there some kind of sailors' union or professional organization which might have records about sailors similar to the Norwegian records?

Reply author: Kåarto
Replied on: 12/11/2013 20:43:32
Message:

Christian was an engineer "Motormann" in Norwegian

Not sure if or where an engineer school was taken place in Norway ca 1900.
You started on level one as "Maskingutt" an apprentice, and then promoted to "Smører" an finally "Motormann" Engineer when you was trained and level 4 was chief engineer (ships officer).

The engineer supported/helped the chief engineer.
It was the chief engineer who promoted a "smører" to "motormann" engineer

Kåre

Reply author: jungfigh
Replied on: 14/11/2013 12:05:41
Message:

Through a link supplied by David Yaw I contacted this Gentleman in Canada who had researched the Fast's lineage.

After explaining to him the search for Cristian's date and place of birth he replied with this:

Hi Derek,
I have just spoken to a Norwegian, who said that many Lutheran Records
are available. I tried familysearch.org a free Mormon site, and
came up with the 6 following possibilities:-

Kristian Thomesen

Norway, Baptisms, 1634-1927

birth: 23 July 1882
christening: 27 August 1882 HALDEN, OSTFOLD, NORWAY
residence: 1882 Halden, Ostfold, Norway


father: Thomas Marinius Bernhard Thomesen
mother: Trine Amalie Harby


Kristian Thorvald Thomassen

Norway, Baptisms, 1634-1927

birth: 30 December 1882
christening: 29 April 1883 Bremsnes, Møre og Romsdal, Norway
residence: 1882 Møre og Romsdal, Norway


father: Kristian Thomassen
mother: Barbro Kristiansdr


Christian Jørgen Thomassen

Norway, Baptisms, 1634-1927

birth: 20 October 1881
christening: 13 November 1881 Tomter, Østfold, Norway
residence: 1881 Østfold, Norway


father: Thorvald Thomassen
mother: Thale Sørensdatter

Kristian Thomassen

Norway, Baptisms, 1634-1927

birth: 18 October 1881
christening: 13 November 1881 Fjel, Hordaland, Norway
residence: 1881 Hordaland, Norway


father: Iver Thomassen
mother: Marta Olsdatter


Christian Bernhard Thomasen

Norway, Baptisms, 1634-1927

birth: 26 May 1884
christening: 17 August 1884 Buskerud, Norway
residence: 1884 Buskerud, Norway


father: Andreas Thomasen
mother: Olava Larsdatter


Kristian Thomassen

Norway, Baptisms, 1634-1927

christening: 12 October 1884 Ringebu, Oppland, Norway
residence: Oppland, Norway


father: Torsten Thomassen
mother: Kristine Iversdatter


Note that none of the names is a perfect match, but at least the
father's names are all different. The marriage certificate MAY have the
original spelling. You can get the certificate within a couple of
weeks. I have an account if you do not know what to do:

http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/default.asp

I cannot find a tree with his name on it. If you want a wager, I think
the first is the most likely, because the age is correct, there was no
middle name, and the first son of Cristian and Maud was called Thomas.
Best wishes
David.

Reply author: jungfigh
Replied on: 14/11/2013 12:12:55
Message:

I do have the copy of Cristian's and Maud's wedding.

Cristian does sign his name Cristian Tompson on that certificate. Does the new information above cast any new lines of enquiry..?

As David stated the first name seems the best bet, but, the date of birth doesn't quite match with the information given. i.e. 1883.

Could you geographic historians confirm that Halden could have been miscronstrued as Walden..?

Reply author: jungfigh
Replied on: 14/11/2013 12:17:17
Message:

I still await further certificates which MAY give Cristian's full date and place of birth..fingers crossed for this very long search...Thank-you all once again.

Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 14/11/2013 13:57:59
Message:

quote:

---

Originally posted by jungfigh


Could you geographic historians confirm that Halden could have been miscronstrued as Walden..?

---

Reply author: David Yaw
Replied on: 14/11/2013 14:10:23
Message:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kåarto

Christian was an engineer "Motormann" in Norwegian

Not sure if or where an engineer school was taken place in Norway ca 1900.
You started on level one as "Maskingutt" an apprentice, and then promoted to "Smører" an finally "Motormann" Engineer when you was trained and level 4 was chief engineer (ships officer).

The engineer supported/helped the chief engineer.
It was the chief engineer who promoted a "smører" to "motormann" engineer

Kåre

---

Reply author: jungfigh
Replied on: 15/11/2013 06:05:24
Message:

With regard your last para. David:

I do have a further search to make at the Southampton archives, that is pending till I receive my first certificate which may void the subsequent search.

As said earlier: Cristian certainly is an enigma, but, as with all evidence, it (he) is there to be found.

Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 17/11/2013 08:25:15
Message:

Looking at the lately generated list of Kristians from familysearch (This is just to clarify. I took the birthdates recorded in the familysearch records and input into the 1910 Norwegian census search engine. Some produced no results--no person of the name or birthplace on the date.) :

KRISTIAN THOMESEN b Halden 1882-07-23 there is a Kristian Berg b Tistedalen on that date in the 1910 census. Tistedalen is now a neighborhood in Halden, originally started some 4 km from the center of Halden.

KRISTIAN THORVALD THOMASSEN b. Bremsnes 1882-12-30
Found no Kristian or Christian (of any or every last name) b. that date nor Kristian or Christian Thomassen born (any date) in Bremsnes.

CHRISTIAN JØRGEN THOMASSEN b. Tomter 1881-10-20
There are 2 Kristians born that date 1 born Hobøl, 1 born Hadeland. Found no Christian born that place or date.

KRISTIAN THOMASSEN b. Fjel 1881-10-18
Found neither Kristian nor Christian (of any last name) b Fjel either Fjel or born that date

CHRISTIAN BERNARD THOMASEN b. Buskerud 1884-05-26
Found no Christian Thomassen b. that date. Found 1 Kristian Berg b. that date but the place is given as Furnes.

KRISTIAN THOMASSEN b. Ringebu 1884-10-12
Found 3 Kristian born (of any or every last name) that date but none born Ringebu. Found no Christian (of any or every last name) born that date.

Reply author: jungfigh
Replied on: 17/11/2013 10:25:04
Message:

Thank-you Jackie...your tenacity and investigative powers are very impressive. I'm sure if Cristian hasn't already been mentioned in this thread we're not far away from finding him. Southampton may hold the key.

Reply author: jungfigh
Replied on: 20/11/2013 11:12:39
Message:

quote:

---

Originally posted by jungfigh

Thank-you Jackie...your tenacity and investigative powers are very impressive. I'm sure if Cristian hasn't already been mentioned in this thread we're not far away from finding him. Southampton may hold the key.

---

Reply author: Kåarto
Replied on: 20/11/2013 12:40:58
Message:

quote:

---

Originally posted by jungfigh
haven't forgotten Cristian:

Many phone calls made to UK and still await Southampton's findings.

Fingers crossed.

---

Reply author: jungfigh
Replied on: 20/11/2013 14:21:52
Message:

Thank-you Kåre.

Reply author: jwiborg
Replied on: 20/11/2013 23:30:33
Message:

Regarding Halden:
The city was named Fredrikshald between 1665-1928. Thus; Fredrikshald would probably be the cityname anyone would use in records up until 1928...

Reply author: Kåarto
Replied on: 21/11/2013 15:03:30
Message:

quote:

---

Originally posted by jungfigh

came up with the 6 following possibilities:-

Kristian Thomesen

Norway, Baptisms, 1634-1927

birth: 23 July 1882
christening: 27 August 1882 HALDEN, OSTFOLD, NORWAY
residence: 1882 Halden, Ostfold, Norway


father: Thomas Marinius Bernhard Thomesen
mother: Trine Amalie Harby

Best wishes
David.

---

Reply author: jungfigh
Replied on: 22/11/2013 05:52:49
Message:

Thank-you Kåre. Another off the list.

Nil desperandum..!

Reply author: jungfigh
Replied on: 22/11/2013 11:12:39
Message:

quote:

---

Originally posted by jwiborg

Regarding Halden:
The city was named Fredrikshald between 1665-1928. Thus; Fredrikshald would probably be the cityname anyone would use in records up until 1928...

---

Reply author: jwiborg
Replied on: 23/11/2013 20:54:22
Message:

quote:

---

Originally posted by jungfigh
Good morning Jan Peter,

Halden/Walden as shewn on the certificate of deceased seamen:

Would this name have been used by emigres as an abbreviation or 'local' interpretation, as Berks. in England for Berkshire..? As you know there are many more locations in the UK who abbreviate their names as such. Is something being missed in the translation somewhere...Could Cristian have ' re-invented ' himself for whatever reason..?

---

Reply author: jungfigh
Replied on: 24/11/2013 06:39:48
Message:

Trying to 'keep an open mind' on this Jan Peter my thoughts keep wandering back to a possible false name.

Reply author: jungfigh
Replied on: 27/11/2013 06:36:37
Message:

When I started to trace Cristian's details I thought it may be a hard task. It certainly has been. All contributors help has been invaluable.

My to do list/places to search, (with one exception, Southampton, which could be the lynch-pin) are just about exhausted. Any further ideas from you 'professionals' please..?

Reply author: jungfigh
Replied on: 27/11/2013 18:00:41
Message:

Just received from G.R.O. Cristian is still being elusive..!

Dear Sir/Madam,

Thank you for your order as detailed below.

Death Certificate: CRISTIAN TOMPSON

We have been unable to process your application, please refer to the paragraph below.

A search has been made of our indexes but no trace has been found of an entry with the details you supplied. We only have registrations of events which occur on British Registered ships. We suggest you contact the following who may hold the records.

National Archives, telephone: 020 88 76 344
Web site: www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Reply author: jungfigh
Replied on: 28/11/2013 06:28:29
Message:

This earlier post certainly rebuts the reply sent to me by the G.R.O. I will telephone them to-day with this information:

Name;- Campanula.
>
> First Registered at Ramsgate;- December 1919.
>
> Formerly Registered at Lowestoft.
>
> Gross tonnage;- 95 tons.
>
> Nett tonnage;- 40 tons.
>
> Length;- 86.2 feet.
>
> Beam;- 18.6 feet.
>
> Depth;- 9.1 feet.
>
> Built;- Yarmouth 1913.
>
> Construction;- Steel
>
> Date lost;- 4th February,1920.
>
> Owners;- Isle of Thanet Steam Trawling Co,Ltd.
>
> Last known position;- 10 miles off the Galloper.
>
> Date re last position;- 4th February,1920.
>
> Crew List CAMPANULA.
> ----------------------------
>
> Skipper;- George Kennard. Age 25yrs. Son of Mr.G. and Mrs A.Kennard of
> 4.Norman's Place,West Malling,Kent.
>
> Mate;- Frederick Samuel Halsey. Age 29yrs.Son of Samuel Thomas and Lydia
> Halsey;husband of Agnes Alicia Elizabeth Halsey (nee MacDougal), of
> 8.Plains of
> Waterloo, Ramsgate, Kent.
>
> First Engineer;- William John Owen. Age 43yrs. Son of William John and
> Mary Ann Owen; husband of Alice Edith Owen (nee Lawrence) of 61 Dane Road,
> Margate, Kent.
>
> Second Engineer;- Christian Thompson. Age 37yrs. (born 1883). Husband of
> Maude Oliva Thompson (nee Fast) of 6 Florence Terrace, Cannonbury Road,
> Ramsgate, Kent. Born in Norway.
>
> Third Hand;- John Saunders. Age 31yrs. Son of the late Mr and Mrs
> Saunders; husband of Ellen Rose Saunders (nee Hubbard) of 49 Finsbury
> Road, Ramsgate.
> Born;- Croydon, Surrey.
>
> Deck Hand;- Alfred Roland Cook West. Age;- 28yrs. Son of Alfred and
> Harriet Amelia West of 3 Cottage Road, Ramsgate, Kent.
>
> Deck Hand;- Robert Bailey Fast. Age;- 25yrs. Son of Mary Ann Fast of 3
> Dove Cottages, King Street, Ramsgate, Kent.
>
> Deck Hand;- Edward John Miller. Age;- 31yrs. Son of the late Edward John
> and May Miller; husband of Sarah Lilian Miller (nee Boughton) of 13
> Hereson Road,
> Ramsgate, Kent (born Ramsgate).
>
> Trimmer;- James Frederick Cox. Age;- 45yrs. Son of the late George Daniel
> and Sarah Cox; husband of Charlotte Louisa Cox (nee Bond), of 6 St.James
> Square,
> Ramsgate, Kent.
> Born;-St.Peter's,Kent.
>
> Hope this helps with your research - if you have any further questions
> please do contact me.
>
> Very best regards
>
> Terry
>
>
>
> Terry Wheeler
> The Ramsgate Historical Society
> https://www.facebook.com/RAMSGATE.HISTORICAL.SOCIETY

Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 28/11/2013 14:38:45
Message:

Was Robert Bailey (on account of his mother's name Mary Ann Fast) a relative of yours?

Reply author: David Yaw
Replied on: 28/11/2013 18:59:00
Message:

quote:

---

Originally posted by jungfigh

Just received from G.R.O. Cristian is still being elusive..!

Dear Sir/Madam,

Thank you for your order as detailed below.

Death Certificate: CRISTIAN TOMPSON

We have been unable to process your application, please refer to the paragraph below.

A search has been made of our indexes but no trace has been found of an entry with the details you supplied. We only have registrations of events which occur on British Registered ships. We suggest you contact the following who may hold the records.

National Archives, telephone: 020 88 76 344
Web site: www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

---

Reply author: jungfigh
Replied on: 28/11/2013 20:24:02
Message:

quote:

---

Originally posted by David Yaw

quote:

---

Originally posted by jungfigh

Just received from G.R.O. Cristian is still being elusive..!

Dear Sir/Madam,

Thank you for your order as detailed below.

Death Certificate: CRISTIAN TOMPSON

We have been unable to process your application, please refer to the paragraph below.

A search has been made of our indexes but no trace has been found of an entry with the details you supplied. We only have registrations of events which occur on British Registered ships. We suggest you contact the following who may hold the records.

National Archives, telephone: 020 88 76 344
Web site: www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

---

Derek, just a thought on this. Having come across a couple of ship-board deaths in my own family history reasearch, it seems to me that in the "normal" course of a death taking place on board ship, the captain of the vessel would record the event, I guess added by a ship's medical officer on large vessels, and report it at the vessel's destination, with the remains of the deceased perhaps being buried at sea or ashore at the following port of call. I think it must be these returns that are collated in the GRO records.

In the case of Christian, I infer from your report of the accident to the Campanula that there were no survivors and with an explosion probably no bodies found after the vessel sank. If that were indeed the case, it seems likely Christian's widow and the families of the other casualties would have to obtain a death certificate through some formal process - maybe after some form of inquiry. Perhaps the GRO recording process is less efficient at picking up death certificates resulting from such a process. This is not an assertion - just a thought.

I'll be at the National Archives in Kew sometime next week, and if it would help you, I'd be happy to query this line with them on your behalf.

---

Reply author: jungfigh
Replied on: 29/11/2013 11:15:41
Message:

quote:

---

Originally posted by jungfigh

[quote]Originally posted by jungfigh

[quote]Originally posted by jkmarler

Was Robert Bailey (on account of his mother's name Mary Ann Fast) a relative of yours?

---

Reply author: jungfigh
Replied on: 02/12/2013 11:29:26
Message:

Another disappointment:

I have received documentation from Southampton with regard their search for Cristian. A negative reply.

I will also take this opportunity to thank David Yaw for ALL the enquiries he has done for me in my quest. Far beyond a 'call of duty'. Thank-you sincerely David.

Where is the answer to the elusive Cristian Tompson..?

Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 02/12/2013 19:01:11
Message:

I've taken an opportunity to look at the 1971 Volda bygdebøker looking for more modern relatives of Kristian Elias Danielsen Strømme. The book only traces out one line (or I could only find one line to follow) among the children of Daniel Danielsen Strømme and Johanne Annaniasdotter. The son Alfred Strømme b. 13 Nov 1896 d. 12 Nov 1972 and he and his wife had 4 known children.
1. Jon b. 9 Dec 1921 d. 3 June 1996
2. Kari b. 5 Feb 1925 d. 9 Aug 2009 m. Ole Sperre
3. Dagny b 1927 m. Arild Eliasson Yksnøy
4. Alvhild Klara b. 1933 m. Einar Nilsen, Ulefoss

Unfortunately both the son Jon and daughter Kari have passed on but I haven't been able to find Dagny nor Alvhild Klara. If they are still living they would be very aged. Just to clarify their father would have been a brother to Kristian E.D. Strømme

The information about Kristian Elias Danielson Strømme re the move to US and the accidental (ved ulykke) in 1918 are in this edition of the book as well, but no particular source for those pieces are given in the book.

Reply author: jungfigh
Replied on: 02/12/2013 19:46:24
Message:

Thank-you so much Jackie. All detail (as well you know) helps.

Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 02/12/2013 20:39:05
Message:

Derek, I just tried to send you an email through the norwayheritage system but it came back as undeliverable. You might want to check your email address in the system. The letter contained addresses and phone numbers of 4 people who are descendants of Sivert Elias Danielson Strømme who was the elder brother of Kristian Elias Danielson Strømme's father, Daniel Danielson Strømme.

Jackie M.

Reply author: jungfigh
Replied on: 02/12/2013 21:46:17
Message:

Jackie.

Look at my Bio.

I couldn't change my e-address when I moved. The web-master has it in hand to fix.

Reply author: Kåarto
Replied on: 02/12/2013 21:58:45
Message:

I think Alvhild Klara Nilsen b. 1933 lives in Ulefoss, Telemark.

Kåre

Reply author: JaneC
Replied on: 03/12/2013 01:34:33
Message:

And maybe Kari lived in Ålesund, Møre og Romsdal. Tore is on Facebook (wife Ingrid also):
http://skatt.adressa.no/adressa-tax-search/2008/person?id=3092981

Same website lists Alvhild Klara.

Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 03/12/2013 01:51:04
Message:

Yes, Kari is buried in a cemetery in Ålesund. I wonder if the other two names with Sperre last name in that zipcode in Ålesund are relatives to her?

Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 03/12/2013 02:11:56
Message:

Kristian Danielson Strømme would have been the uncle to the four children of Alfred. Conceivable that they or their children would know the story about their uncle Kristian dying in an accident (even though he was thought to be in America)--Maybe even have pictures of Kristian...

Reply author: JaneC
Replied on: 03/12/2013 02:20:15
Message:

Yes and/or stories of an uncle who went to England....

Reply author: jungfigh
Replied on: 03/12/2013 06:00:28
Message:

Fingers crossed Jane.

I thank-you and Jackie for your recent input. You too Kåarto.

Reply author: jwiborg
Replied on: 05/12/2013 22:49:27
Message:

Reply author: jwiborg
Replied on: 05/12/2013 23:05:30
Message:

From the farmhistory book "Voldasoga", volume 2, p. 162:
Kristian: "travelled to America, died in an accident in 1918"
Ananias: "married and lived in England".

Daniel Johannes Danielssen Strømme from no. 4-10, b. 21 Sep 1854, d. 28 Nov 1942, married 08 Jul 1877 to Johanne Gurine Ananiasdatter from Åmelfotsætra (1-8), b. 21 Apr 1854, d. 17 Aug 1900, lived here some years, then moved to Vågan in Lofoten in 1884.
Children:
1 Daniel Andreas, b. 01 May 1878, d. 06 Dec 1898, worker at a mechanical workshop.
2 Ananias Johannes, b. 13 Feb 1880, d. ?, travelled to England, married and lived there.
3 Kristian Elias, b. 02 Nov 1882, d. 1918, travelled to America.
4 Peder Matias Strømme, b. 10 Oct 1885, d. ?, married to Petra Hellandshamn, lived at Ålesund.
5 Gustav Strømme, b. 08 Jun 1888, d. ?, married 06 Oct 1914 to (Lovise) Bergljot Antonsd. Schei from Mosjøen, d. 15 Jul 1890, d. ?, lived in Molde.
6 Jenny Lovise Strømme, b. 10 Dec 1890, d. 31 Mar 1915.
7 Robert Johan Strømme, b. 09 Jul 1894, d. ?, married to Ida Sefland from Ålesund, lived at Ålesund.
8 Alfred Strømme, b. 13 Nov 1896, see Naustvegen 2, Øyra (16-2).
9 Dina Amanda, b. 23 Nov 1899, d. ?, married 28 Jul 1918 to Peder Anderssen Orvik from Bolsøy, b. 1893, d. ?, lived at Fugelset in Molde.

Daniel Johannes and Johanne Gurine later came to Plassebruk under Nilsgarden, Kile (16-1). Daniel Johannes later married again, see Naustvegen 2, Øyra (16-1).

Reply author: David Yaw
Replied on: 06/12/2013 10:18:26
Message:

quote:

---

Originally posted by jwiborg

From the farmhistory book "Voldasoga", volume 2, p. 162:
Kristian: "travelled to America, died in an accident in 1918"
Ananias: "married and lived in England".

Daniel Johannes Danielssen Strømme from no. 4-10, b. 21 Sep 1854, d. 28 Nov 1942, married 08 Jul 1877 to Johanne Gurine Ananiasdatter from Åmelfotsætra (1-8), b. 21 Apr 1854, d. 17 Aug 1900, lived here some years, then moved to Vågan in Lofoten in 1884.
Children:
1 Daniel Andreas, b. 01 May 1878, d. 06 Dec 1898, worker at a mechanical workshop.
2 Ananias Johannes, b. 13 Feb 1880, d. ?, travelled to England, married and lived there.
3 Kristian Elias, b. 02 Nov 1882, d. 1918, travelled to America.
4 Peder Matias Strømme, b. 10 Oct 1885, d. ?, married to Petra Hellandshamn, lived at Ålesund.
5 Gustav Strømme, b. 08 Jun 1888, d. ?, married 06 Oct 1914 to (Lovise) Bergljot Antonsd. Schei from Mosjøen, d. 15 Jul 1890, d. ?, lived in Molde.
6 Jenny Lovise Strømme, b. 10 Dec 1890, d. 31 Mar 1915.
7 Robert Johan Strømme, b. 09 Jul 1894, d. ?, married to Ida Sefland from Ålesund, lived at Ålesund.
8 Alfred Strømme, b. 13 Nov 1896, see Naustvegen 2, Øyra (16-2).
9 Dina Amanda, b. 23 Nov 1899, d. ?, married 28 Jul 1918 to Peder Anderssen Orvik from Bolsøy, b. 1893, d. ?, lived at Fugelset in Molde.

Daniel Johannes and Johanne Gurine later came to Plassebruk under Nilsgarden, Kile (16-1). Daniel Johannes later married again, see Naustvegen 2, Øyra (16-1).

---

Reply author: David Yaw
Replied on: 06/12/2013 10:55:25
Message:

quote:

---

Originally posted by jwiborg

---

Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 06/12/2013 13:28:40
Message:

quote:

---

Originally posted by jwiborg

From the farmhistory book "Voldasoga", volume 2, p. 162:
Kristian: "travelled to America, died in an accident in 1918"
Ananias: "married and lived in England".

Daniel Johannes Danielssen Strømme from no. 4-10, b. 21 Sep 1854, d. 28 Nov 1942, married 08 Jul 1877 to Johanne Gurine Ananiasdatter from Åmelfotsætra (1-8), b. 21 Apr 1854, d. 17 Aug 1900, lived here some years, then moved to Vågan in Lofoten in 1884.
Children:
1 Daniel Andreas, b. 01 May 1878, d. 06 Dec 1898, worker at a mechanical workshop.
2 Ananias Johannes, b. 13 Feb 1880, d. ?, travelled to England, married and lived there.
3 Kristian Elias, b. 02 Nov 1882, d. 1918, travelled to America.
4 Peder Matias Strømme, b. 10 Oct 1885, d. ?, married to Petra Hellandshamn, lived at Ålesund.
5 Gustav Strømme, b. 08 Jun 1888, d. ?, married 06 Oct 1914 to (Lovise) Bergljot Antonsd. Schei from Mosjøen, d. 15 Jul 1890, d. ?, lived in Molde.
6 Jenny Lovise Strømme, b. 10 Dec 1890, d. 31 Mar 1915.
7 Robert Johan Strømme, b. 09 Jul 1894, d. ?, married to Ida Sefland from Ålesund, lived at Ålesund.
8 Alfred Strømme, b. 13 Nov 1896, see Naustvegen 2, Øyra (16-2).
9 Dina Amanda, b. 23 Nov 1899, d. ?, married 28 Jul 1918 to Peder Anderssen Orvik from Bolsøy, b. 1893, d. ?, lived at Fugelset in Molde.

Daniel Johannes and Johanne Gurine later came to Plassebruk under Nilsgarden, Kile (16-1). Daniel Johannes later married again, see Naustvegen 2, Øyra (16-1).

---

Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 06/12/2013 14:10:04
Message:

Derek,

The aunty who had the journal in which was written the name of the place of Cristian's origin--you handled her estate settlement but were you the informant on her death certificate? If you weren't the informant perhaps the person who was also knew of the origins of her father and reported it on her death certificate.

Which funeral home handled the service for your aunt? In US funeral homes often collect all sorts of unexpected information--do they in Britain?

Did this aunt have any children with whom she might have shared family information?

Reply author: JaneC
Replied on: 06/12/2013 16:49:20
Message:

quote:

---

Originally posted by jkmarler

Here is another one for the wall, way off the wall. #49 Kristian Elias Danielson b 2 Nov 1882 son of Daniel Danielson and Johanne Ananiasdtr, living on Strømme:

Source information: Møre og Romsdal county, Volda in Volda, Parish register copy nr. 511C03 (1864-1884), Birth and baptism records 1882, page 298.
Permanent pagelink: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=15961&idx_id=15961&uid=ny&idx_side=-269


The father's occupation of strandsitter is, if I remember correctly, a coast watcher like a lighthouse keeper, but not a carpenter.

#39 Kristian Elias Danielsen confirmation:
Source information: Møre og Romsdal county, Volda in Volda, Parish register copy nr. 511C04 (1884-1903), Confirmation records 1898, page 243.
Permanent pagelink: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=6477&idx_id=6477&uid=ny&idx_side=-233


Here the father is with many of his family in 1875 on Strømme:
http://digitalarkivet.uib.no/cgi-win/WebCens.exe?slag=visbase&sidenr=6&filnamn=f71519&gardpostnr=689&merk=689#ovre

The parents of Kristian Elias marriage #17:
Source information: Møre og Romsdal county, Volda in Volda, Parish register copy nr. 511C03 (1864-1884), Marriage records 1877, page 35.
Permanent pagelink: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=15961&idx_id=15961&uid=ny&idx_side=-36

Here is Daniel Strømme in 1900 with occupation defined as stenarbeider and snedker (carpenter) , Kristian is not at home,
http://digitalarkivet.uib.no/cgi-win/WebCens.exe?slag=visbase&sidenr=2&filnamn=f01519&gardpostnr=494&merk=494#ovre

Here is Daniel Strømme & family in 1910:
http://digitalarkivet.arkivverket.no/ft/person/pf01036754002642

---

Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 06/12/2013 19:47:30
Message:

Yes this topic is voluminous. I'm not sure anyone had a copy of the Volda soge books you have linked to, Jane, to volunteer to look into. Below are the books which have been mentioned:\

1, Busetnadssoga for Volda, Volume 2 Folkestad, Kilsfjorden, Bjørkedalen, by Olav Myklebust, Eldar Høidal, Arnfinn Kjelland, published 2004 &+

2. The earlier bygdebøker was a series of 3 volumes published in 1971 titled Volda-soga I, II gardar og slekter, III written by Per Årviknes.

I found in the link you supplied one reference in one paragraph containing the words Strømme and Straume, but my Norwegian is not good enough to be certain what the paragraph or indeed the whole book is about. It appears to be a more general history about some aspect of Volda and perhaps there are details that might be useful in the search, just don't know.

The family tree that was posted earlier made reference to the details about the 2 brothers, Kristian and Ananias. The author of the family page said his source was the Busetnadssoga for Volda. This is nearly identical to the information about the brothers in the 1971 bygdebøker with the slight variation that Kristian died in an accident. So the information was likely repeated in the "new" bygdebøk from what was publsihed in 1971.

I suspect, but do not know for certain, that the source for at least some of the information about the brothers is probably in the parents' dødsfallprotokol records. My small experience with these records indicates that often the place names of locations of potential heirs are given. Some times its only general as in saying they are in US or others
more specifically Oslo. Often there is also a "source" person given. (In the case of my great great grandfather the informant on his record was his brother-in-law.)

Good that there are 2 reasonably thorough people looking in US for Kristian and neither have been able to find him there. Likewise I've also taken a stab in the British records for Ananias Johannes Danielsen Strømme but not found anyone who appears to be him.

Reply author: Kåarto
Replied on: 06/12/2013 21:37:35
Message:

quote:

---

Jan Peter, Kåre, Einar, how does one gain access to dødfallsprotokol records which haven't been posted online at the Digitalarkivet?

I just checked the probate records for Møre og Romsdal listed at familysearch and find the only record mentioned dates from 1700s when Sunnmøre was part of a larger clerical judicial district based in Bergen. At the Digitalarkivet the dates of the probate records don't cover 1900 (when Kristian Elias' mother died) and 1942 (when Kristian's father died) and even 1898 (when Kristian's elder unmarried brother died). The dødsfallprotokol for the parents might contain information about Kristian's whereabouts, information which might tend to rule him in or out.

---

Reply author: jungfigh
Replied on: 07/12/2013 05:38:43
Message:

quote:

---

Originally posted by jwiborg

---

Reply author: jungfigh
Replied on: 07/12/2013 05:48:10
Message:

quote:

---

Originally posted by jkmarler

Derek,

The aunty who had the journal in which was written the name of the place of Cristian's origin--you handled her estate settlement but were you the informant on her death certificate? If you weren't the informant perhaps the person who was also knew of the origins of her father and reported it on her death certificate.

Which funeral home handled the service for your aunt? In US funeral homes often collect all sorts of unexpected information--do they in Britain?

Did this aunt have any children with whom she might have shared family information?

---

Reply author: jungfigh
Replied on: 07/12/2013 05:51:42
Message:

quote:

---

Originally posted by David Yaw

quote:

---

Originally posted by jwiborg

---

Derek, I summarise here the searches we did "off line" so future contributors will see what avenues have been explored :

1. Kent County Council registrars. They could not advise what "procedure" was in place in the 1920's for issue of death certificates in cases of people lost at sea

2. Government Records Office Southport stated they would only have issued a death certificate based on a doctor's certificate having examined body of deceased and giving date, place and cause of death. While we find a GRO record for his marriage to Maud in 1903, we are unable to find a record for Cristian in GRO death record index.

3. Maritime & Coast Guard Agency, Cardiff. Hold no records of individual seamen, nor of formal inquiries into wrecked vessels.

4. National Maritime Museum, Greenwich. Hold no records of individual seamen, nor of formal inquiries into wrecked vessels

5. City Archives, Southampton. They have now digitised records of formal (Board of Trade) inquiries into vessels damaged or lost at sea. They records for 1920 have nothing for the Campanula - either there was no formal inquiry, or if there was the record has not survived.

6. Crew List Index Project CLIP. A few crew lists and agreements are held at Kew, while others are held at the Memorial University, Newfoundland. CLIP website does not throw up any crew records for Campanula.

7. National Archives, Kew. I went through the BT334/74 and BT334/80 records. As we suspected, these are simply the registers which record the deaths of seamen with very basic details of name, nationality, place of birth and residence. The deaths in the loss of the Campanula on 28 January are not recorded until March 1920 - presumably the delay was due to the length of time to realise the vessel was missing, that she was lost and the administrative process of forwarding that info to the authorities and them then entering it into the register. Note Christian's nationality given here as British, birthplace Walden.

One of the specialists at Kew confirmed in these circumstances, this register of deceased seamen is the formal death record - no separate death certificate would have been issued by GRO.

I also went back over the BT349 records for individual seamen searching for Christian's merchant marine service record - no luck.

Finally, I also looked at National Archives register MT25/85, which records vessels lost as a result of enemy action. The record for the Campanula implies she struck a mine - the other records on the page indicate that fishing vessels striking mines, or indeed trawling them up, was more frequent than one might suppose - three UK registered fishing vessels were lost from this cause in the North Sea in January 1920 alone.



But unfortunately bottom line in all this - no further clues as to Cristian's birth in Norway, son of a carpenter, with forename Donald

---

Reply author: jungfigh
Replied on: 07/12/2013 05:57:19
Message:

Although I haven't posted in the past few days I haven't been Idle. Going over previous ground, making further telephone calls to Parish Councils, etc. All negative.

I find it extremely frustrating that a 'simple' thing such as establishing Cristian's date and place of birth is proving so difficult. All of you who have assisted in this task are gems.

Thank-you..!

He will be 'found'..!

Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 07/12/2013 13:36:21
Message:

quote:

---

Originally posted by JaneC

A candidate from Family Search website

Johannes Stromme
Last Place of Residence: Stromme, Chrsand., Norway
Event Date: 09 Oct 1907
Age: 25y
Nationality: Norway, Scand.
Departure Port: Christiansand
Arrival Port: New York
Gender: Male
Marital Status: S
Citizenship Status:
Ship Name: C. F. Tietgen

---

Reply author: Kåarto
Replied on: 07/12/2013 22:27:31
Message:

You are right.
The Probate registers from Møre og Romsdal online ends late in the 1800 link

Kåre

Reply author: jwiborg
Replied on: 07/12/2013 23:07:39
Message:

Today I've been in contact again with one of the editors of the Volda farm history books. And he forwarded me to one of the descendants of Alfred Straume, Kristian's younger brother.

The descendant was happy for my contact, because he has been pondering about these brothers for years. His thoughts is that the first editor (Aarviknes) mixed up on the brothers; probably Daniel Johannes og Ananias Johannes. (But he later says it could be Kristian and Ananias...)
And that the fault had been copied over to the new volume.

It was only one of Alfreds daughters (Kari) that remembered the marriage in England (or rather "Shetland or Orkney islands" ?), but she was already quite ill when the book came out.
She said her uncle drowned on the sea when she was a little girl, and that they had received a letter from the widow, in english, asking for help to the children whom she now was alone with.

But she was quite sure that the book had it wrong, she ment that it was Ananias that died in America. The story about him is that he was heading home to Norway, left a train on the homeward trip, and was hit by a crossing train in the next lane.

As they had understood it, the English family should have been a fishing family on the islands, and that he drowned while fishing. The people who received the letter was Daniel and his second wife Synnøve.

The editors/authors I've been in contact with regarding this is Arnfinn Kjelland and Olav Myklebust. The information they had on this family was copied directly from the Volume made by Aarviknes.

Reply author: jwiborg
Replied on: 08/12/2013 00:24:31
Message:

A brother; blacksmith Per Mathias Danielsen Strømme b. 1885 emigrated to America on 18 Mar 1909.

Peder Stromma b.1886 arrived Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada on 02 Apr 1909 on the Corsican.

Border Crossings: From Canada to U.S., 1895-1956
BORDER CROSSINGS & PASSPORTS
NAME: Peder Matia Strome
BIRTH: 1886 - Norway
DEPARTURE: Liverpool, Lancashire, England
ARRIVAL: 02 Apr 1909 - St John, New Brunswick, Canada

#6189

Reply author: JaneC
Replied on: 08/12/2013 02:07:56
Message:

Name: Peder Strømme
Death Date: 15 Jun 1967
Burial Date: 20 Jun 1967
Burial Place: Ålesund, "Møre og Romsdal", Norway
Age: 81
Birth Date: 10 Oct 1885
http://www.disnorge.no/gravminner/index.php

from the Volda-Soga:
Peder Matias Strømme, b. 10 Oct 1885, d. ?, married to Petra Hellandshamn, lived at Ålesund.

Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 08/12/2013 02:13:47
Message:

Here is Peder Matias' confirmation #20:
Source information: Møre og Romsdal county, Volda in Volda, Parish register copy nr. 511C04 (1884-1903), Confirmation records 1900, page 251.
Permanent pagelink: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=6477&idx_id=6477&uid=ny&idx_side=-241


Here he is back in Norway in 1910--says he lived in Tacoma, Wash.:
http://digitalarkivet.arkivverket.no/ft/person/pf01036754002644

Reply author: JaneC
Replied on: 08/12/2013 03:13:53
Message:

Name: Gustav Strømme
Death Date: 20 Mar 1966
Burial Date: 25 Mar 1966
Burial Place: Molde, "Møre og Romsdal", Norway
Age: 77
Birth Date: 8 Jun 1888

from the Volda-Soga:
Gustav Strømme, b. 08 Jun 1888, d. ?, married 06 Oct 1914 to (Lovise) Bergljot Antonsd. Schei from Mosjøen, d. 15 Jul 1890, d. ?, lived in Molde.


Name: Robert Strømme
Death Date: 4 Nov 1976
Burial Date: 9 Nov 1976
Burial Place: Ålesund, "Møre og Romsdal", Norway
Age: 82
Birth Date: 10 Jul 1894
http://www.disnorge.no/gravminner/bilde.php?id=3114176

from the Volda-Soga:
Robert Johan Strømme, b. 09 Jul 1894, d. ?, married to Ida Sefland from Ålesund, lived at Ålesund.


Name: Alfred Strømme
Death Date: 12 Nov 1972
Burial Date: 16 Nov 1972
Burial Place: Volda, "Møre og Romsdal", Norway
Age: 75
Birth Date: 13 Nov 1896

from the Volda-Soga:
Alfred Strømme, b. 13 Nov 1896, see Naustvegen 2, Øyra (16-2)

All of the above from Ancestry.com index of
Norway Burial Index, DIS-Norge, 1700-2010

Reply author: jungfigh
Replied on: 08/12/2013 11:59:29
Message:

Good morning Jackie,

Negative results from our Son on the information you supplied.

Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 08/12/2013 14:19:11
Message:

Sister Dina Amanda Bolsø at DIS Gravminner:
http://www.disnorge.no/gravminner/bilde.php?id=3929104

Reply author: jwiborg
Replied on: 08/12/2013 15:13:50
Message:

What is left to search for in the UK; in order to locate Cristian Tompson's date of birth?
Did he apply for naturalisation as a British citizen?
Any probate register? Death record? Burial record?

Kristian Elias Danielssen Strømme in question was born 02 Nov 1882 in Volda, Møre & Romsdal, Norway.

Reply author: JaneC
Replied on: 08/12/2013 16:51:40
Message:

from jkmarler, posted above:
Name: Dina Amanda Bolsø
Death Date: 18 Feb 1991
Burial Date: 25 Feb 1991
Burial Place: Molde, "Møre og Romsdal", Norway
Age: 91
Birth Date: 23 Nov 1899
[DIS-Norge, 1700-2010]

From the Volda-Soga book, information from it furnished by jwiborg: Dina Amanda, b. 23 Nov 1899, d. ?,
married 28 Jul 1918 to Peder Anderssen Orvik from Bolsøy, b. 1893, d. ?, lived at Fugelset in Molde


Volda i Volda churchbook, 1891-1905, page 271, entry #33
Died, Ungkarl Arbeider xxx xxx Volsted Daniel Andreas Danielsen, 06 December 1898, buried 10 Dec,
born 01 May 1878, fødested: Straume, bopæl: Kile, Tdreng (tjenesdreng?/laborer?)

from the Volda-Soga book, information from it furnished by jwiborg:
Daniel Andreas [Danielssen Strømme] b. 01 May 1878, d. 06 Dec 1898, worker at a mechanical workshop



Seeking Ananias Johannes Danielssen Strømme (b. 13 Feb 1880) in America, possibly Tacoma, Pierce, Washington, ca 1910 US census.
I plan to check out an Andrew J Stromme in Tacoma records, wife Josephine, 1609 S 19th Street, son Arthur died 1913, unless someone already ruled out Andrew.
Descendant in this family told the ever-amazing jwiborg that Ananias Johannes died when "he was heading home to Norway,
left a train on the homeward trip, and was hit by a crossing train in the next lane."

Was this in America, or had he reached Norway, did the descendant know?

Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 08/12/2013 18:12:41
Message:

Attempting to squeeze every smidgeon of information from the story in 1971Volda-Soga II, page 162, this is exactly what it says:

"2. Annanias Johannes, f. 1879, gift og budde i England.
3. Kristian Elias, f. 1882, reiste til Amerika, d. ved ei ulykke i 1918."

So one possible combination in the mixup is that each phrase after the year belongs in whole to the other person, a la:

Annanias Johannes, f 1879, reiste til Amerika, d. ved ei ulykke i 1918. &
Kristian Elias, f. 1882, gift og budde i England.

If Annanias / Ananias moved to US, it had to have been after the 1900 Norwegian census and before the 1910 Norwegian census. So he should be somewhere in US in 1910.

I have checked 2 newspaper sites, Chronicling America and genealogybank.com looking for each part of Annanias' name with the added text of "train accident." While there were plenty of train accidents of the sort Alfred's descendant mention (hit by cross traffic) I didn't find any which appeared to be about a person containing the name Ananias, Johannes, Danielson, Stromme.

If Peder went to America to visit his sibling in Tacoma, coming east from Tacoma means the Great Northern and Northern Pacific US railways most likely to Chicago. But after Chicago I'm not sure which lines are most likely. And coming east on Canadian Pacific is also a possibility.

Reply author: jwiborg
Replied on: 08/12/2013 19:35:47
Message:

I will try to find out more about where he died. It looks like both brothers died at an early age. One in England while fishing, the other in an train accident.

Reply author: JaneC
Replied on: 08/12/2013 20:05:12
Message:

Thanks jwiborg. I have nothing new and have been busy.

Still not found: Kristian Elias Danielsen Stromme born 02 Nov 1882 in Volden
living in England with wife and children
(or in possibly the Shetland Islands or the Orkney Islands),
who may have died at sea on a fishing boat and with a possible date of death 1920;
seeking a candidate who is not "Derek's" Cristian.
The family story that the widow wrote to the family in Norway (in English), seeking help, as she was left alone with children to raise, suggests she not Norwegian. If found in England or Scotland, Kristian Elias Danielsen Stromme can be ruled out.
If he's NOT found....

The Orkney Islands refers to an archipelago in northern Scotland.
The Shetland Islands refers to a subarctic archipelago of Scotland.

I sense a gut feeling on the part of the group that the candidate Jackie found, Kristian Elias Danielsen Stromme, might indeed be Derek's Cristian.
Strikiing that Jan Peter said the family (one person anyway) has "been wondering about these brothers for years," from the Norway side,
and meanwhile Derek is wondering too, from the England side.

Reply author: jwiborg
Replied on: 08/12/2013 20:50:09
Message:

The descendant does not know where Ananias was run over by the train, other than it was in America. It could have been "Buffalo", but he could not find any source for that.
I showed him the picture of Cristian and the 7 children, and although he had seen old pictures of his family, he had never seen this picture.
He did not see any similarity to Alfred, but could imagine that Daniel maybe would have looked something like this at that age.

Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 09/12/2013 03:11:43
Message:

Well there are a lot of towns named Buffalo in US:

Buffalo, White County, Indiana
Buffalo, Scott county, Iowa
Buffalo, Wilson county, Kansas
Buffalo, Larue county, Kentucky
Buffalo, Wright county, Minnesota
Buffalo, Dallas county, Missouri
Buffalo, Fergus county, Montana
Buffalo, Erie county, New York
Buffalo, Cass county, North Dakota
Buffalo, Guernsey county, Ohio
Buffalo, Harper county, Oklahoma
Buffalo, Washington county, Pennsylvania
Buffalo, Harding county, South Dakota
Buffalo, Leon county, Texas
Buffalo, Putnam county, West Virginia
Buffalo, Johnson county, Wyoming

And double this number if it's Buffalo + something additional.

Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 09/12/2013 03:14:29
Message:

Realistically, England itself is an island but don't forget Ramsgate was on the Isle of Thanet....

Reply author: jungfigh
Replied on: 09/12/2013 11:26:21
Message:

quote:

---

Originally posted by jwiborg

What is left to search for in the UK; in order to locate Cristian Tompson's date of birth?
Did he apply for naturalisation as a British citizen?
Any probate register? Death record? Burial record?

Kristian Elias Danielssen Strømme in question was born 02 Nov 1882 in Volda, Møre & Romsdal, Norway.

---

Reply author: jwiborg
Replied on: 09/12/2013 15:39:14
Message:

Emigrants travelling to "Buffalo" from Trondheim:
162 Buffalo, New York
38 Buffalo, Minn
10 Buffalo
9 New Buffalo, Dakota
8 Buffalo, Cap. Dakota
6 Buffalo, N. Dakota
4 Buffalo, Dakota
1 Buffalo, Wisc
1 Buffalo, S. Dakota
1 Buffalo, Erie N. N.
1 Buffalo, Erico

Emigrants travelling to "Buffalo" from Ålesund:
5 Buffalo
3 Buffalo, u.s.a.
1 Buffalo, Dakota

So a "qualified" wild shot would be Buffalo, Erie county, New York. Is there a train station "hub" there, where you have connecting tracks from various parts of the country?
And was a Norwegian killed in an train accident there in 1918?

Reply author: David Yaw
Replied on: 09/12/2013 16:02:09
Message:

Apologies in advance if I sound like a dog with a bone with Cristian’s stated father’s forename of Donald and a Norwegian link thereto.

Herewith another unusual entry in the UK records.

Donald STEWART appears in the 1861, 1871 and 1881 censuses as follows :.

1861 – Donald b Norway 1854, son of John Stewart, born 1816 Dunkeld, Perthshire, farmer of 180 acres (= about 75 hectares) and wife Susannah Stewart b England 1822 and living in Tarbert, Gigha, Argyllshire. Tarbert is on the west coast of Scotland about 50 miles west of Glasgow as the crow flies. Gigha is a district of Argyll, and also the name of an island about 3 miles off the coast between the mainland and Islay. (I could not trace a marriage record for John & Susannah in England & Wales – I do not have access to Scotland’s People to site to check that out)

1871 – Donald b Norway, Sharpsborg (Sarpsborg ??) aged 16, bricklayer, living with his widowed mother Susannah, b Cambridge 1823 and her mother Lydia Aldus, born Hemingford, Hants(ie Hampshire), 1790 living in King Street, Batley, West Yorkshire
(Note: Lydia’s birthplace appears to be transcribed incorrectly – I think it should read Hemingford, Huntingdonshire. And Susannah’s maiden name may have been Allpress, not Aldus – there is a marriage record for Lydia Allpress and James Aldus b Laxfield Suffolk 1777 – they married abt Mar 1847 in St Ives on the Cambridgeshire/Huntingdonshire borders, and comparing 1841 and 1851 censuses looks like she was his second wife. The 1841 census also has a Susannah Allpress apparently unmarried living in the Wakefield district and born outside the county – the same area of Yorkshire as Batley to which she would later return,)

1881 – Donald b Norway, British Subject, aged 25 unmarried, general labourer living in Batley, West Yorkshire with widowed mother Susannah, lodging house keeper aged 60 b Fen Drayton, Cambridgeshire and his younger brother George age 23 born Scotland. Note there is a death record about Dec 1882 for Susannah Stewart aged 57 (calculated yob 1825) in Dewsbury - Batley is in this district, so very likely Donald’s mother.

Donald is not found in the 1891, 1891, 1901 or 1911 censuses (for the latter I only have access to England & Wales, not Scotland), nor did I find a matching death record for his year of birth (also England & Wales only).

I looked up Sarpsborg on Digitalarkivet – but the Ministerial records don’t start until 1859, ie 5 years after Donald’s supposed birth. (Can any of our Norwegian friends confirm whether there records simply don’t exist before 1859, or exist but are just not digitised ??)

So how does a young Norwegian-born son come to be part of this family with no obvious link to Norway ??

Were John & Susannah Donald’s natural parents ?? If so, why would modest farmers from Scotland be in Sarpsborg at the time of his birth around 1854/5 ??

Or might they have been his adoptive parents ?? But neither Tarbert nor Gigha are on any obvious route between Norway and western Scotland which might have brought Norwegian vessels or travellers there.

Where does he go after the 1881 census ?? Is it feasible he returned to Norway, where he soon married and his wife bore him a son Cristian in about 1883 ?? Then where does he/they go ??

And if – and it’s a big if !! - all this were so, why might the surname be changed from Stewart to Stromme or Tompson ??

Can anyone at least help in finding birth records for Sarpsborg, or later records for Donald ??

Another long shot – just hope its not yet another blind alley

Reply author: jwiborg
Replied on: 09/12/2013 16:06:39
Message:

For Sarpsborg before 1859, you have to look under Tune.

Reply author: David Yaw
Replied on: 09/12/2013 16:09:52
Message:

Derek, more on Cristian's father Donald.

Looking at some UK marriage certificates today from my own tree, I noticed that a number included the comment "deceased" against the father of the bride and/or groom. Not sure if this was a hard and fast "rule" of the Registrars.

But just going back to the original of Cristian's marriage certificate which I think you now have, does it make any such comment against his father ??

If not, maybe indicates there was a Donald Tompson still out there somewhere at time of the marriage who we still need to search for.

Reply author: Kåarto
Replied on: 09/12/2013 16:10:15
Message:

Kristian Elias Danielssen Strømme in question was born 02 Nov 1882 in Volda, Møre & Romsdal, Norway.

I believe you have found the right person, only the final proof for your Christians birtday remains.

His father Daniel could well be Donald in the UK.
Acc. to the 1900 census Daniels occ. was stoneworker and CARPENTER.

Kåre

Reply author: David Yaw
Replied on: 09/12/2013 16:29:18
Message:

quote:

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Originally posted by jwiborg

For Sarpsborg before 1859, you have to look under Tune.

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Reply author: JaneC
Replied on: 09/12/2013 17:38:21
Message:

quote:

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Originally posted by jwiborg


Jan Peter

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Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 09/12/2013 18:35:05
Message:

Here's the link for #251. His parents are unmarried:

Source information: Østfold county, Tune, Parish register (official) nr. 11 (1852-1856), Birth and baptism records 1854, page 71.
Permanent pagelink: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=456&idx_id=456&uid=ny&idx_side=-75

How does this Robert Donald explain the situation about the last name Tompson?

Apparently there was a question on the record. She is listed as Hustruen or Hustrue, so married but his position is unclear maybe not Ungkarl but Brug.Karl which is something else. The whole notation in the legitimate or illegitimate column is marked "ligesaa" which means same as above or ditto and the one above is legitmate. So never mind me...

Reply author: JaneC
Replied on: 09/12/2013 18:38:44
Message:

...and birth place Walden?

Originally posted by jkmarler
His last name was changed from Tromm to Tompson. Perhaps it was changed from "Strommen" to Tromm to Tompson. In Norway the most common spelling of Strommen would be Strømmen. Here is Kristian Strommen onboard vessel b. 1883:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XSF3-3D5


David Yaw added information about this vessel, the Rapid, and more, page 8 of this thread.

Reply author: eibache
Replied on: 09/12/2013 19:00:12
Message:

quote:

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Here's the link for #251. His parents are unmarried:

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Reply author: jwiborg
Replied on: 09/12/2013 19:17:42
Message:

quote:

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Originally posted by jkmarler

His last name was changed from Tromm to Tompson. Perhaps it was changed from "Strommen" to Tromm to Tompson. In Norway the most common spelling of Strommen would be Strømmen. Here is Kristian Strommen onboard vessel b. 1883:

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XSF3-3D5

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Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 09/12/2013 19:19:46
Message:

Family history is seldom perfect but always in a state of being perfected... So all have to be explored to find the truth

Reply author: jwiborg
Replied on: 09/12/2013 19:54:15
Message:

Fyi,
I have requested a copy of the 1942 probate records after Daniel Johannes Danielssen Strømme. The answer might take a couple of weeks, and will be provided by snail mail. Not sure if it will provide any new info, but its worth a try.

Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 10/12/2013 02:48:33
Message:

Having those records for Daniel Danielson will be excellent, await the day of arrival.

There is a special website of just New York newspapers online searchable. It makes my computer hiccup but perhaps some one else on forum could visit and see if there are any stories about "killed by train" in or near Buffalo, New York between 1900-1918.

http://www.fultonhistory.com/Fulton.html

Jane usually does a better job with summaries than do I but here is a summary of the starting information about Cristian Tompson and other facts generated on forum:

Cristian
Tompson
Born abt 1883
Born Norway
Born Lauden Vordner
Last name changed from Tromm to Tompson
Died on or about 20 Jan 1920 at sea
Occupation: 1903 fisherman,
1911 timber /lumber work,
1914-1918 artillerist
1920 2nd engineer on fishing vessel
Have photo of Cristian with 7 children taken about 1917-1918
Ramsgate is on the Isle of Thanet.

Information generated on forum
Married 3 July 1903 Ramsgate, Kent, England
Father’s name: Donald Tompson
Father’s occupation: carpenter
Age at marriage: 20
Birthplace Walden
Eldest daughter’s full name Rose Malinda Joanna Tompson
Eldest son’s name Thomas A.D. Tompson (don’t know yet what the D stands for)

If anyone has a correction to this, drop me an email and I will correct this summary. I fear this topic has gotten so large that everybody is finding it impossible to get their arms around it. (At least I know I am, since I'd forgotten about my own post of the Kristian Strommen 18 year old sailor in English waters census listing once before)

Reply author: jwiborg
Replied on: 10/12/2013 11:00:54
Message:

"Lauden Vordner" is a mystery. Was it an oral expression?

Reply author: jungfigh
Replied on: 10/12/2013 12:08:42
Message:

No Jan Peter,

... It was written by my Aunt Marge, which I actually saw. Her translation...of which she was told..? goodness knows.

I never questioned her with regard to Cristian.

My wife Lyn has asked me did all the children ( with the exception of Chrissie who died of tuberculosis when I was very young) talk about their Father..? No..! It wasn't the things I was told or even comprehended as a youngster.

Reply author: jungfigh
Replied on: 10/12/2013 12:13:48
Message:

quote:

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Originally posted by jwiborg

quote:

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Originally posted by jkmarler

His last name was changed from Tromm to Tompson. Perhaps it was changed from "Strommen" to Tromm to Tompson. In Norway the most common spelling of Strommen would be Strømmen. Here is Kristian Strommen onboard vessel b. 1883:

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XSF3-3D5

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That is a really good finding. I had totally missed this one.

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Reply author: jungfigh
Replied on: 10/12/2013 12:16:04
Message:

When I started this Inquiry,

I didn't appreciate it was like 'Opening Pandora's Box'.

I have learned a lot.

Reply author: Kåarto
Replied on: 10/12/2013 15:38:07
Message:

If the answer reg. the probate after Daniel Danielsen Strømme is negative there is perhaps a 2. chance.

A probate register after his wife Johanne Gurine Annaniasdatter Strømme.
She was born on farm Amelfotsæter and died of disease on Kile August 17. 1900, see down page #15

Woodworker and Carpenter Daniel Strømme married Synnøve (Henriksdatter Bjørdal) Mai 27. 1901, and because of that perhaps a probate record was set up.
See farm Øren 1910

Kåre

Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 10/12/2013 16:00:46
Message:

Another remote possibility is Kristianne Elinse Sjursdatter, Kristian Elias' grandmother, farmor. She was born in 1829 and died at 93 on 24 Oct 1922 according to the Volda-soga & family tree posted this topic.

Daniel's widow Synneve died in 1943 as I recall.

Also there are variations in spelling Strømme, as Daniel's burial record at DIS Gravminner carries the last name as Straume.

Reply author: Kåarto
Replied on: 10/12/2013 16:59:18
Message:

Straume was used on Strømme 1910.
Strømme/Straume means stream.
The location is where the narrow Kilspollen and "Straumselva" (Straum-river) flows into Voldsfjord/Austefjord.

Kåre

Reply author: jwiborg
Replied on: 10/12/2013 17:33:58
Message:

quote:

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Originally posted by Kåarto

If the answer reg. the probate after Daniel Danielsen Strømme is negative there is perhaps a 2. chance.

A probate register after his wife Johanne Gurine Annaniasdatter Strømme.
She was born on farm Amelfotsæter and died of disease on Kile August 17. 1900, see down page #15

Woodworker and Carpenter Daniel Strømme married Synnøve (Henriksdatter Bjørdal) Mai 27. 1901, and because of that perhaps a probate record was set up.
See farm Øren 1910

Kåre

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Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 10/12/2013 17:50:29
Message:

In the case of my great great grandmother who owned nothing really, there was a dødsfallprotokol for her and her husband survived her....

Reply author: jwiborg
Replied on: 10/12/2013 18:10:07
Message:

A dødsfallprotokoll could be available for his wife. Unfortunately, I did not request that for her. I'm not sure if that would add any news to the search. Kristian would be only 17 y.o., and the best we could possibly hope for, would be that he was listed as a seaman...?

Reply author: JaneC
Replied on: 10/12/2013 18:23:58
Message:

quote:

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Originally posted by jkmarler

On Saturday I had a look at the original record of Kristian Strommen 1901 census listing and Ole Pulers in 1911.

This Kristian is one of only 5 or 6 crew, is given the status of AB which I think might mean "Able bodied" and the ship he was one was the Rapide of Shoreham. But the last name did look like Strommen rather than Stromme or Strommer.

Ole Pulers was indexed in Ancestry as M Pulers and the town is written in a fashion which to me looked like Wolden rather than Walden. The schedule at the top also said that it was taken in Scotland.

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