Ralph Sorensen

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Topic URL: http://www.norwayheritage.com/snitz/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=6479
Printed on: 30/01/2025

Topic:

Topic author: Carolaquilante
Subject: Ralph Sorensen
Posted on: 29/09/2016 18:30:44
Message:

My grandfather, Ralph Sorensen, was born in Oslo Fylke, Norway in 1890. As the story goes, he got into some kid trouble at around 13 years old and left his books by the water and stowed away on a ship. He eventually changed his last name to Rivers and at some point a sea captain told him to write home to let them know he was alive. They may have thought he drowned. My grandfather died around 1961 and he and his wife Mary Almeida Rivers had ten children. Is there any information out there on an potential relatives? It would be nice to pass some information on to the rest of the family.

His first name may have been the Norweigan form of the name.

Replies:

Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 29/09/2016 19:08:54
Message:

There are two men named Ralph Rivers in the WWI draft registration database both of whom have the same birthdate 12 Aug 1890:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KZ8X-ZHD

Here is the other card. Typo on statement above his birthdate is given as 12 Aug 1891, employed as mariner in Port Arthur Texas:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KZXG-WVR

He became a naturalized citizen in 1941 and the record states he entered through Boston on 24 Jan 1921:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QK6K-LB36

Reply author: Kåarto
Replied on: 29/09/2016 21:29:20
Message:

Ralph/Ralf/Rolf Sørensen in Norwegian.

Kåre

Reply author: jwiborg
Replied on: 29/09/2016 22:15:22
Message:

Reply author: AntonH
Replied on: 29/09/2016 22:18:40
Message:

In the 1930 US Census he is living in Rhode Island with wife and family and is listed as Business Agent for the Seamans Union. Listed as having arrived in 1918. He must have travelled a lot
for he is listed in 1924 as having arrived Jan 8, 1918, in Port Arthur Texas. From Tampico, Mexico

Ralph Rivers
in the Rhode Island, State and Federal Naturalization Records, 1802-1945
Name: Ralph Rivers
Age: 33
Record Type: Declaration
Birth Date: 12 Aug 1890
Birth Place: Christiania, Norway
Arrival Date: 8 Jan 1918
Arrival Place: Port Arthur, Texas
Declaration Date: 23 Jan 1924
Declaration Place: Rhode Island, USA
Spouse: Mary
Declaration Number: 39415

Reply author: AntonH
Replied on: 29/09/2016 22:31:36
Message:

As a sailor he shows up in a lot of records. Here is one coming to Boston from Tampico, Mexico. Age 30 born in Norway on the original manifest.

Ralph Rivers
in the Massachusetts, Passenger and Crew Lists, 1820-1963
Name: Ralph Rivers
Nationality: Norwegian
Departure Place: Tampico, Mexico
Arrival Date: 1 May 1920
Arrival Place: Boston, Massachusetts, USA
Ship: George

Reply author: AntonH
Replied on: 29/09/2016 22:38:20
Message:

In 1916, 1917, 1918 and 1919 he sailed into New Orleans from various places, including Nicraugua, Honduras and Mexico. In one instance he is listed with the first name of Ralf.
Ralf Rivers
in the New Orleans, Passenger Lists, 1813-1963
Name: Ralf Rivers
Arrival Date: 2 Jul 1917
Port of Arrival: United States
Birth Date: abt 1889
Age: 28
Nationality: Norwegian
Port of Departure: Frontera, Mexico
Ship Name: Norwalk

Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 30/09/2016 01:14:38
Message:

Here is an obit for one of Ralph Sr's kids:
Lillian May Nelson
Lillian May (Rivers) Nelson, formerly of Anawan Street, Rehoboth, and more recently the Maples Nursing and Rehabilitation Center in Wrentham, died on Aug. 15, 2013, knowing she was loved by her sister, daughters, sons-in-law, grandchildren and great-grandchildren.
She met her future husband Al, who died in 2007, in 1944 at the Fields Point Shipyard in Providence, while building ships for the war effort. They were indeed part of the greatest generation and they married on April 14, 1945.
She was born Oct. 13, 1923 in Providence to Ralph Rivers Sr. and Mary (Almeida) Rivers. She was the first of 10 children. She was preceded in death by Elsie Aquilante, Ralph W., Raymond, Frank, Dorothy Wagner, Helen Lavin and Ann Joan. She is survived by a brother, L. William Rivers and a sister, Rosemarie Kapusta and many nieces and nephews.
Mrs. Nelson worked at Engelhard Industries in Attleboro as the receptionist in the late 1960s and early 1970s.
She was the Past Worthy Matron of the Order of Eastern Star of the Martha Washington Chapter No. 18, Warren, R.I., in 1957-1958. Mrs. Nelson was a member of Second Congregational Church, UCC of Attleboro and a member of the board of deacons from 1988-1990, a member and past president of the Martha Circle and a proud member of the church's flower committee.
Her other love was the water. She used to love to swim and sail to the Sabin Point Lighthouse on Rose Island in East Providence before the '38 hurricane changed life for her family when they lost their home.
They had two daughters, Joyce who married Ted Moxham of Attleboro, and Cheri who married Ernie Dardenne, also of Attleboro. Mrs. Nelson loved watching her grandchildren, Jennifer Dardenne Callan, Kristin Moxham Keith, Jeffrey Dardenne, and Erika Moxham Murphy, grow and enjoy the "wide open spaces of Rehoboth while visiting their grandparents."
She was blessed with five great-grandchildren, Ashley, Tyler, Hailey, Jake and Ben, who just arrived on Aug. 8.
Public visitation has been respectfully omitted.
A private funeral service was scheduled for Tuesday, Aug. 20, 2013, in the Memorial Chapel of the Dyer-Lake Funeral Home - the nationally historic Colonel Obed Robinson Home, 161 Commonwealth Ave. (exit 5 off Interstate-95 N or S, go right, 3/4 mile on the left), Village of Attleboro Falls, North Attleboro with the Rev. F. Vernon Wright, pastor of Second Congregational Church, Attleboro, officiating.
Burial was to follow in Oak Knoll Cemetery, Rehoboth.
Please omit flowers. Memorial donations in Mrs. Nelson's name may be made to the Second Congregational Church - Deacon's Fund, Park Street, Attleboro, MA 02703.
For additional information or to send the family a written expression of sympathy, visit a guest book at dyer-lakefuneralhome.com.
Arrangements are under the direction of the Dyer-Lake Funeral Home - the national historic Colonel Obed Robinson Home, 161 Commonwealth Ave., Village of Attleboro Falls, North Attleboro, 508-695-0200.

Reply author: peder
Replied on: 30/09/2016 11:21:48
Message:

Ralph Rivers


Gender: Male
Birth: Circa 1891

Norway



Residence: 1940

1721 Westminster Street, Providence, Rhode Island, USA

Age: 49
Residence in 1935: Same Place - 1721 Westminster Street, Providence, Rhode Island, USA
Race: White
Citizenship status: NA
Marital status: Married
Wife: Mary Rivers
Children: Lillian Rivers, Ralph Jr Rivers, Dorothy Rivers, Elsie Rivers, Lewlyn Rivers, Raymond Rivers, Frank Rivers, Jona A Rivers, Helen Rivers


Census


County: Providence Enum. District: 6-116 Page: 12B
State: Rhode Island Roll: m-t0627-03777 Family: 239
Date: 1940 Frame: 00027 Line: 51

Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 30/09/2016 13:53:28
Message:

There is a death in the British Columbia Canada death record set in the 1970s for a man named Wall Rivers who was born in Setskogen, Norway in the 1890s.
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FLBX-B8L

His name at birth is Ragnvald #5:
SAO, Høland prestekontor Kirkebøker, F/Fc/L0001: Ministerialbok nr. III 1, 1880-1897, s. 28
Brukslenke for sidevisning: https://media.digitalarkivet.no/kb20060719030031


Here is a long shot Torolf / Toralf Wang b 12 Aug 1890:
http://digitalarkivet.arkivverket.no/gen/vis/279/pk00000000534794

As Toralf Pedersen in the 1900 census:
http://digitalarkivet.arkivverket.no/ft/person/pf01037091006789

Listed as deceased in 1910:
http://digitalarkivet.arkivverket.no/gen/vis/267/pg00000000559170


The things to like about Toralf is that his name could be reasonably shortened to Ralph and his birthdate is on the money. But many elements in the family story don't match the records on him, not clear where the Sorenson comes in nor Rivers and the story of leaving at age 13 or thereabouts. But I think I'll check the death record to see if he disappeared or is thought to have drowned or some such.

Cause of death looks to me like appendicitis, so no mysterious disappearance or drowning. Back to drawing board.

Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 30/09/2016 16:44:18
Message:

Here is a possible a Realf b 1890 in the 1900 census:
http://digitalarkivet.arkivverket.no/ft/person/pf01037167003160

He is a sailor in 1910, living in US:
http://digitalarkivet.arkivverket.no/ft/person/pf01036523006322

Definately born 14 June 1890 #78:
SAKO, Solum kirkebøker, F/Fa/L0010: Ministerialbok nr. I 10, 1888-1898, s. 28
Brukslenke for sidevisning: https://media.digitalarkivet.no/kb20060531090404

Realf Realfsen is in DIS Gravminner. He died in 1914 so can't be your man:
Name Realf Realfsen
Birth date 1406 1890
Died date 1912 1914
Square C
Cemetery Solum
County/Municipality Telemark/Skien
Registrations by Kirkevergen i Skien
Transcriber Kirkevergen
Registration finished Mars 2008
Notes
Photographer Eva Erntsen, DIS-Telemark
About the registration Kirkevergens database + gravminnene


Here is Realf's dodfallsprotokol #132 says he died of Taering:
SAKO, Solum lensmannskontor, H/Ha/L0002: Dødsanmeldelsesprotokoll, 1909-1916, p. upaginert
Quick link: https://media.digitalarkivet.no/en/sk10081301022110

Reply author: peder
Replied on: 30/09/2016 19:53:02
Message:

http://www.reportertoday.com/rehoboth/rehoboth/stories/RehobothWrentham-Lillian-May-Rivers-Nelson,5574

http://www.dyer-lakefuneralhome.com/memsol.cgi?user_id=1064767
Lillian May Nelson

Reply author: AntonH
Replied on: 30/09/2016 22:47:07
Message:

In the 1900 Norwegian Census there is only one Rolf Sørensen born between 1888 and 1892.
Rolf Brynulf Finn Sørensen born in Kristiania in 1888
http://www.rhd.uit.no/folketellinger/ftliste_e.aspx?ft=1900&knr=0301&kenr=153&bnr=0021&lnr=04

There are two Throlf Sørensen one born in Krisitiania in 1891
http://www.rhd.uit.no/folketellinger/ftliste_e.aspx?ft=1900&knr=0301&kenr=172&bnr=0005&lnr=01

This looks like the same family in the 1910 Census with the birth date for Thorlf given as Feb 12, 1891 and a occupation that does not seem to go with that of being a sailor.

http://www.rhd.uit.no/folketellinger/ftliste_e.aspx?ft=1910&knr=0301&kenr=143&bnr=0060&lnr=01

And one born in Skien, that would be a stretch to be connected with Oslo.and the 1910 Cesnus lists him as bein born March 14, 1889.

http://www.rhd.uit.no/folketellinger/ftliste_e.aspx?ft=1900&knr=0827&kenr=006&bnr=0023&lnr=00

Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 30/09/2016 23:42:09
Message:

Rolf Brynjul etc is not with the family in 1910...
http://digitalarkivet.arkivverket.no/ft/person/pf01036392087030

Looks like one of Rolf's brothers came to US in 1913:
http://digitalarkivet.arkivverket.no/gen/vis/8/pe00000001136674

He apparently stayed 1913-1916 and made a return to visit to his aunt Marie Raynor in 1920, coming on the Stavangerfjord.

Marie Raynor in 1920 census:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MJPV-CY2

As Ida Marie Raynor in 1910 census:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M539-Y4R

Dies in New York in 1943:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2WPW-2X4

https://a860-historicalvitalrecords.nyc.gov/view/11470178

Birth and baptism of Rolf's mother auntie Harda:
http://digitalarkivet.arkivverket.no/gen/vis/255/pd00000002245551
(Her father is noted as Carl M Dechmann, wonder if this is the same person as ships captain Carl Dechmann who captained several voyages of the Askur out of Drammen carrying numerous passengers to North America?)This must be an older namesake sister of Harda Sofie who married Andreas Sorenson.

Harda's birth and baptism #4
SAKO, Sem kirkebøker, F/Fa/L0007: Ministerialbok nr. I 7, 1856-1865, s. 113
Brukslenke for sidevisning: https://media.digitalarkivet.no/kb20051018020444

Harda with her birth family in 1865 census:
http://digitalarkivet.arkivverket.no/ft/person/pf01038118002280

Harda with her birth family in 1875 census:
http://digitalarkivet.arkivverket.no/ft/person/pf01052055045204

Harda's and Andreas' marriage #76
SAO, Paulus prestekontor Kirkebøker, F/Fa/L0004: Parish register (official) no. 4, 1879-1891, p. 215
Quick link: https://media.digitalarkivet.no/en/kb20060922020394


In Norway Baptisms at familysearch.org there are found five children of Andreas Sorenson and Harda Deichmann. Rolf is not among them. The one born in 1886 was ____ Trygve Johan and he was baptized at Paulus and the girl Elly Sofie baptized in 1890 was baptized at "Hospital".

The widow H. Diechmann-Sørensen in 1905 at the address given in Rolf's confirmation record of 1903:
RA, Kristiania adressebok (publikasjon)*, 1905, p. 299
Quick link: https://media.digitalarkivet.no/en/db10061202274991

Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 01/10/2016 09:47:35
Message:

We have lift off!!!

Rolf #222 was born 12 August 1888
SAO, Paulus prestekontor Kirkebøker, F/Fa/L0013: Ministerialbok nr. 13, 1887-1894, s. 71
Brukslenke for sidevisning: https://media.digitalarkivet.no/kb20060830050180

Reply author: eibache
Replied on: 01/10/2016 15:05:47
Message:

Marvelous Jackie!

quote:

---

(Her father is noted as Carl M Dechmann, wonder if this is the same person as ships captain Carl Dechmann who captained several voyages of the Askur out of Drammen carrying numerous passengers to North America?)

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Reply author: Kåarto
Replied on: 01/10/2016 15:20:40
Message:

quote:

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Originally posted by jkmarler

We have lift off!!!

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Reply author: eibache
Replied on: 01/10/2016 15:30:31
Message:

His father Andreas Sørensen was born Sept 27 1853, see #137.
His parents were Seaman Søren Jensen and Bolette Andersdatter.

Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 01/10/2016 17:01:24
Message:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kåarto

quote:

---

Originally posted by jkmarler

We have lift off!!!

---

Houston here, I can read you

Kåre

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Reply author: Kåarto
Replied on: 01/10/2016 17:52:10
Message:

Rolfs parents Andreas Sørensen and Harda Sophie Andrea Deichman born in Slagen 1861 married in St. Pauli congregation, Oslo, Sept. 6. 1884. Parents; Seaman Søren Jensen and Ship master Carl Martinius Deichman, se #76

Kåre

Reply author: Kåarto
Replied on: 01/10/2016 17:54:36
Message:

Slagen is a population center in Tønsberg

Earlier Slagen was a sub parish in Sem municipality. Sem merged with Tønsberg 1988

Kåre

Reply author: Kåarto
Replied on: 01/10/2016 20:43:24
Message:

The Deichman family belonged to the upper class and had their own coat of arms.
Hardas father Carl Martiniusd Deichman, his father was Johannes Petersen Deichmann, son of Peter Deichman link

Kåre

Reply author: Kåarto
Replied on: 01/10/2016 21:37:30
Message:

Alliance-coat of arms between the two families Deichman and Rach without helmet with a crown painted in Solum church, Telemark, ca 1760. Deichman coat of arms to the left link

Kåre

Reply author: Kåarto
Replied on: 01/10/2016 22:10:59
Message:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kåarto

Rolfs parents Andreas Sørensen and Harda Sophie Andrea Deichman born in Slagen 1861 married in St. Pauli congregation, Oslo, Sept. 6. 1884. Parents; Seaman Søren Jensen and Ship master Carl Martinius Deichman, se #76

Kåre

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Reply author: eibache
Replied on: 01/10/2016 22:54:23
Message:

Harda Sofie Andrea Dokmand (Deckmann) bapt record show the parents being Carl Martinius Deckmann and Inger Marie Foss Gunnerød, see #4.
The family in 1865.
Father Carl Martinus Dokmand was born in Strømsø Jan 10 1827, see #7.
Parents Skomagermester Johannes Dekmand and Susana Andersdatter.

Reply author: eibache
Replied on: 01/10/2016 22:57:56
Message:

Carl Martinius Deckmann and Inger Marie Hansdatter Foss was married Dec 29 1852, see #11
Carl Martinius Deckmanns father was Skomagermester Dechmann.
Inger Marie Hansdatters father was Hans Jensen.

Reply author: AntonH
Replied on: 01/10/2016 23:20:44
Message:

A family tree for Carl Martinius Deichman from Geni.com. Hardas is listed here as Harda. The tree lists her as marrying a Sørensen no first name and the list of children does not include Rolf.

https://www.geni.com/people/Carl-Martinius-Deichmann/6000000011080441624

Reply author: Kåarto
Replied on: 01/10/2016 23:49:25
Message:

The founder of Oslo Public Library known as "Deichmanske Bibliotek" Deichman Library, Carl Deichman, was son of Bishop Bartholomæus Deichman and Peter Deichman's brother, see family tree above link

Kåre

Reply author: eibache
Replied on: 02/10/2016 00:58:03
Message:

Beware of mixxing the surnames Deichmann and Deckmand (Dokmand)

Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 02/10/2016 01:37:42
Message:

Here are some small snippets about the captain Carl Dechmann of the vessel Askur, from the voyage in 1862 excerpted from Frontier Mother: the Letters of Gro Svendsen translated and edited by Pauline Farseth and Theodore C. Blegen published by the Norwegian American Historical Association at Northfield, Minnesota 1950:

Letter dated 17 April 1862 after leaving Drammen written to Gro's parents in Hallingdal:

"...The officers on board are friendly and eager to talk. I have often visited the captain and mate in their cabins and browsed among their books. They were astonished to know that I could write and that I liked to read and improve myself. The first day on board I chanced to be on deck and saw a sailboat far off in the distance. I remarked to one of the sailors 'There's a sail on the horizon.'

'Mate, the young lady seems to be informed,' he answered and repeated what I had said. Ever since we have been good friends. They are eager to answer all my questions,...

...The first day we sailed ever so many were sick, but I escaped because I dressed in warm clothes and walked the deck continuously. How long the Good Lord will hold His protecting hand over me, I don't know but the captain told me that warm clothing and exercise were the best cures for seasickness.... "

Letter to her parents and siblings dated 20 June 1862 as at Quebec:

"...Mother [mother-in-law] has been ill, confined to her bed all this time. On the third of June she gave birth to a son. He was christened on the seventh and was named Carl Deckman....

...I have so much to tell you. I really can't begin to write everything as I haven't paper enough. Neither do I have the time because the captain is going ashore soon, and he has promised to mail my letter. He has been unusually kind, I may say I am his favorite. He has lent me his books, and he has let me look at his maps and other interesting objects....."

Then in about August 1862 Gro, after she and her husband and the rest of the family had arrived in St. Ansgar, Iowa, made a copy of the daily journal she kept day by day through the voyage and mailed that to her brothers in Norway.

"...April 21st ....the captain's father and several other people came on board.....

...April 25th....Every evening the captain reads a passage from Skriver's The Soul's Treasure. It is a great comfort....

...April 27th (First Sunday after Easter) The captain led the worship....

...April 29th ....I hope Bergit will feel better after taking the medicine I got from the captain.....

...May 1st....Today a little bird came flying up to the deck. It had ventured too far out to sea and just wanted to rest its weary wings. But the captain's dog snatched it and tore it to pieces......

...May 6th.... Today I called on the captain.He gave me a drink of strong liquor to bolster me up. I borrowed a medical book and looked at his maps. I also looked over his library. .....

...May 18th...Today the captain's dog had five puppies.

...May 27th - I was so ill today that I almost fainted away. However, speedy help prevented my fainting. Some stimulants from the captain helped me and I recovered....

...May 29th (Ascension Day) I am up again. Today I saw a large iceberg which we almost sailed into because of the fog. Somehow the captain had a feeling that we ought to change our course and so we escaped this disaster. Within the hour we should have crashed....

...June 4th Mother and child are both well. The captain gave us a special treat for the occasion. Cream porridge!.....

...June 6th....This evening the captain wanted to try his luck fishing. He pulled a large fish up to the side of the boat. He and his men were just striking a hook in the belly of the fish when the line suddenly broke. The hook tore a deep gash, and the wounded flounder fell promptly back into the water. The men were both disappointed and disgusted.

June 7th.....Towards nightfall the captain was obliged to baptize our little baby brother, and he was named Carl Deckman. I presented him for baptism, and all the passengers were there to witness the sacred event....

June 19th.....We had just gone a short distance when a Danish boat came along and offered to tow us to Quebec. Our captain refused to pay what they asked so they went on but came back before long and accepted his terms. The boat's name was Lady Simpson...

...June 25th At nine o'clock we were to board the steamer. It was a sad day, leaving the kind captain and his men. He treated us to punch. It was hard to leave him and his crew....."

Carl Deckman dies in London? #25:
SAKO, Sem kirkebøker, F/Fa/L0008: Ministerialbok nr. I 8, 1866-1873, s. 226
Brukslenke for sidevisning: https://media.digitalarkivet.no/kb20051018020933

Yes he died in England:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2VS9-X26

His baptism transcription:
385 Strømsø MINI I 11 171 7 1827 16.04. 1827 Strømsøe K: hj.døpt av Arup
Rolle Stilling Førenamn Etternamn Kjønn Fødd dato Fødd år Ekte/uekte
3414 Barn Carl Martinius M 10.01. 1827 E
3415 Far Skomagermester Johannes Dekmand
3416 Mor Kone Susana Andersdatter
3417 Fadder Madme: Loss K
3418 Fadder Jomfrue Anne Helene Kjømmøe K
3419 Fadder Høker Samuel Brandt M
3420 Fadder Skibscapitain I: Pauss M
3421 Fadder const: Klokker Jeremiassen M

Reply author: eibache
Replied on: 02/10/2016 10:23:30
Message:

Inger Maria was born Febr 24 1829, see #10.
Her parents were Hans Jensen, Søndre Foss and Anne Kirstine Andersdatter.

Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 02/10/2016 14:04:16
Message:

This may be the death of Rolf's uncle Carl Martinius Dechmann in Chicago:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q2M3-GZ56

Death of Nils Deichman, first cousin to Rolf's mother also in Chicago:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q2MD-BMC8

Nils' marriage in 1889 to Anna Berg:
DEICHMANN, NIELS J
BERG, ANNA
1889-04-27
00138784
COOK

Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 03/10/2016 15:52:35
Message:

These are Rolf's maternal grandmother and 2 aunts and uncle going to US in 1882. Don't know if this was intended to be permanent relocation or not:
Given name Last name Residence Age Date of emigration destination Source
Marie Deckmann Kr.ania 53 02.09.1882 New York
Emigranter over Kristiania 1871-1930, redigert utgave

Anna Kr.Deckmann Kr.ania 23 02.09.1882 New York
Emigranter over Kristiania 1871-1930, redigert utgave

Marie Deckmann Kr.ania 11 02.09.1882 New York
Emigranter over Kristiania 1871-1930, redigert utgave

Harald Deckmann Kr.ania 10 02.09.1882 New York
Emigranter over Kristiania 1871-1930, redigert utgave

Reply author: AntonH
Replied on: 03/10/2016 18:48:36
Message:

Marie and the other three arrival in New York. No information on the original manifest as to their destination or whom they may be going to.

Marie Deckmann
in the New York, Passenger Lists, 1820-1957
Name: Marie Deckmann
Arrival Date: 20 Sep 1882
Birth Date: abt 1829
Age: 53
Gender: Female
Ethnicity/ Nationality: Norwegian
Place of Origin: Norway
Port of Departure: Bremen, Germany
Destination: United States of America
Port of Arrival: New York, New York
Ship Name: Salier

Reply author: AntonH
Replied on: 03/10/2016 19:01:54
Message:

Interesting there is a lady from Sweden with a Family Tree on Ancestry.com that contains information on at least some of this family.

Niels Julius Dechmann
1864–1942
BIRTH 17 AUG 1864 • Stromso, Buskerud, Norway
DEATH 13 APRIL 1942 • Chicago, Cook, Illinois, USA

She lists two siblings of Niels and his mother but no father?

Wilhelm Severinus Dechmann
1860–1893
BIRTH 13 AUG 1860 • Stromso, Buskerud, Norway
DEATH 28 OCT 1893

Peder Rangvald Dechmann
1867–
BIRTH 1867 • Stromso, Buskerud, Norway
DEATH Unknown

Mother is listed as

Ingeborg Helene Hansen
1824–
BIRTH 1824 • Slagen
DEATH Unknown

Reply author: jwiborg
Replied on: 03/10/2016 19:04:19
Message:

Family and Friends are hereby notified that our beloved mother and mother-in-law, widow Marie Deichmann, has passed away in Brooklyn after a long illness.
Christiania, May 11th 1891
Harda Sørensen (nee Deichmann), Andreas Sørensen.

Reply author: AntonH
Replied on: 03/10/2016 19:10:14
Message:

I do not know whay the Swedish lady did not add the name of the father of the three sons with mother Ingeborg Helen Hansen. Ancestry.com data records show his name to be Anders Dechmann.. A little poor use of Norwegian naming practices in the headline.

Wilhelm Severinius Anders Johansen
in the Norway, Select Baptisms, 1634-1927
Name: Wilhelm Severinius Anders Johansen
Gender: Male
Birth Date: 13 aug 1860
Baptism Date: 28 okt 1860 (28 Oct 1860)
Baptism Place: Strømsø, Buskerud, Norway
Father: Anders Johan Dechmann
Mother: Ingeborg Helene Hansen
FHL Film Number: 278218
Reference ID: 54-165

Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 03/10/2016 20:43:04
Message:

Apparently grandma Marie came to America twice. Here she is with son Carl coming in 1884 on the Martha Washington #52 & #53:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939V-5RSD-P2?i=67&wc=MX6L-8MS%3A165897101%3Fcc%3D1849782&cc=1849782

Uncle Harald Deichmann goes to America again as a sailor:
http://digitalarkivet.arkivverket.no/gen/vis/8/pe00000000498894

Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 04/10/2016 04:21:10
Message:

quote:

---

Originally posted by jwiborg

Family and Friends are hereby notified that our beloved mother and mother-in-law, widow Marie Deichmann, has passed away in Brooklyn after a long illness.
Christiania, May 11th 1891
Harda Sørensen (nee Deichmann), Andreas Sørensen.

---

Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 04/10/2016 06:17:47
Message:

In the Brooklyn Daily Eagle 26 May 1931 pg 20:

"Dr Frank C Raynor died 25 Mar 1931 at Oslo Norway, formerly of Brooklyn and Port Jefferson, L.I., husband of Marie Deichman Raynor."

Would he be in Oslo's dodfallsprotokol?

It appears that Marie's daughter and her granddaughter Marie may have lived in Norway for some time.

This is from Gravsferdsetaten I Oslo:
Gravnr: 20.312.02.002
Vestre gravlund
 These two are paid / cared for until 2028
Marie Deichman Hilliard
29.05.1891 - 17.11.1967
Gravlagt: 20.09.1985
Marie Deickmann Hilliard
22.05.1918 - 01.03.2008
Gravlagt: 22.05.2008

20.103 This is a brother of Rolf
Andreas Deichman-Søren
Vestre gravlund
1894-02-05 1954-07-04
 
20.055.15.023
Gerd Elin Deichman-Sørensen
Vestre gravlund
1920-12-091992-02-09
 
20.055.15.024
Ingrid Deichman-Sørensen
Vestre gravlund
1894-01-221978-02-10
 
20.055.15.024
Bjørn Deichman-Sørensen
Vestre gravlund
1918-05-111980-10-02
 
20.103 a possible sister-in-law of Rolf
Lilly Deichman-Sørensen
Vestre gravlund
1899-09-25 1982-12-16
 
07.026.03.005
Jenny Margrete Deichmann
Grefsen kirkegård
1892-05-15 1961-07-02
 
07.026.03.005
Ragnvald Eugen Deichmann
Grefsen kirkegård
1890-07-28 1976-04-12
 
20.074
Elise Deichmann
Vestre gravlund

 
20.074
Peder Deichmann
Vestre gravlund
1867-01-22
 

 
20.312.02.002
Marie Deichman Hilliard
Vestre gravlund
1891-05-29 1967-11-17
 
07.050.06.003
Gerd Solveig Deichmann Raaberg
Grefsen kirkegård
1916-07-14 2006-12-13
 
20.221.00.071
Bothild Deichman Sørensen
Vestre gravlund
1916-08-212007-07-24

Reply author: peder
Replied on: 04/10/2016 17:24:30
Message:

perhaps the author will thank those who have given all of this info. or acknowledge that this is his family

Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 04/10/2016 17:51:35
Message:

Who knows? I did send a within system epost to her to let her know that we think we've got him, but so far no response.

Also there is further work to do to pick up all the records Jane mentioned on page 1. Some of them might further tie the guy to this family. Or maybe Harda Diechman Sørenson's dodfallsprotokol might mention missing Rolf.

Reply author: jwiborg
Replied on: 04/10/2016 19:21:14
Message:

Harda's husband (and Ralphs father) Andreas Sørensen died on 26 Sep 1893, only 40 years old. He had suffered from tuberculosis for several years.

Reply author: jwiborg
Replied on: 04/10/2016 21:41:27
Message:

Ralph's brother, Manager Bjørn Deichman Sørensen (33) arrived New York on the ship Hellig Olav on March 7th, 1918. Closest relative: wife Ingrid Deichman Sørensen, Arbinsgate 5, Christiania
His destination was uncle Frank Raynor, 68 Montgue str., Brooklyn N.Y.
Bjørn is listed on a norwegian cruiser that left America on July 7th 1918, headed for Norway, together with 800 fellow norwegians whos aim was to visit the home country.

Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 04/10/2016 21:54:11
Message:

Rolf was still around to be confirmed #57 in 1903 (the family tradition was that he ran away at age thirteen which means about 1901 since he was born in 1888 or about 1903 if the birthday was 1890):
SAO, Trefoldighet prestekontor Kirkebøker, F/Fb/L0004: Ministerialbok nr. II 4, 1896-1915, s. 97
Brukslenke for sidevisning: https://media.digitalarkivet.no/kb20060606050576

Here the family is living 19 Wergelandsv in 1902. Rolf is called "Finn":
OBA, Kommunal folketelling 1902 for Kristiania kjøpstad, 1902, s. 23551

They don't appear to be at this address in 1903 at the time of the census.
Brukslenke for sidevisning: https://media.digitalarkivet.no/of20130423058118

Reply author: AntonH
Replied on: 04/10/2016 23:06:51
Message:

Bjørn did seem to get around.

Björn Deichman-Sörensen
in the Hamburg Passenger Lists, 1850-1934
Name: Björn Deichman-Sörensen
Gender: männlich (Male)
Departure Age: 38
Ethnicity/Nationality: Norwegen (Norwegian)
Occupation: Disponent
Military Service: Passvisum
Birth Date: 5 Mrz 1885 (5 Mar 1885)
Birth Place: Christiania
Residence: Hamburg
Departure Date: 6 Okt 1923 (6 Oct 1923)
Port of Departure: Hamburg
Destination: Kristiania
Ship Name: Kong Dag
Shipping Clerk: Rob. M. Sloman jr., Hamburg
Shipping line: Det Sondenfjelds Norske Dampskibsselskab
Ship Type: Dampfschiff, kein Auswandererschiff
Emigration: nein
Accommodation: 2. Klasse
Volume: 373-7 I, VIII A 1 Band 305
Household Members:
Name Age
Björn Deichman-Sörensen 38

Reply author: jwiborg
Replied on: 04/10/2016 23:57:30
Message:

Bjørn got married again in 1947, at the age of 62.

Reply author: jwiborg
Replied on: 05/10/2016 00:36:22
Message:

quote:

---

Originally posted by jkmarler


20.055.15.024
Bjørn Deichman-Sørensen
Vestre gravlund
1918-05-11 - 1980-10-02
 

---

Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 05/10/2016 01:59:13
Message:

Interesting among the godparents of Bjorn Johan were Bjorn Sverre's and Rolf's brother and sister.

Here is Bjorn Sverre and 2nd wife at DIS gravminner:
1894734 
Margarethe Deichman Sørensen 
0107 1906 
1903 1993 
2503 1993 
AA 07 076 Hoff Østre Toten

1894735 
Bjørn Sverre Deichman Sørensen 
0503 1885 
1601 1965 
2201 1965 
AA 07 077 Hoff Østre Toten

Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 05/10/2016 14:23:10
Message:

From the index to Oslo sailor records left hand page Rolf is listed with hoved number 9335.

SAO, Oslo sjømannskontor, F/Fa/L0002: Register for Kristiania krets, 1866-1930, p. 443-444
Quick link: https://media.digitalarkivet.no/en/ru10040910220175

His record shows only one voyage on the Mabelle out of Drammen to some other county (utl.) in 1905 #9335:
SAO, Oslo mønstringskontor, F/Fc/Fca/L0004: Annotasjonsrulle, 1897-1908, p. 327
Quick link: https://media.digitalarkivet.no/en/ru20090416640337

It might be this vessel the Mabella:
https://www.sjohistorie.no/no/skip/18391/

The earliest newspaper report about the Mabella found at elephind.com was that she was in the port of Bunbury in Australia on 21 Dec 1906 having arrived from Port Natal. Not sure how long such a voyage would last.

The captain of the Mabella in the 1910 Norwegian census:
http://digitalarkivet.arkivverket.no/ft/person/pf01036458026819

And in 1900:
http://digitalarkivet.arkivverket.no/ft/person/pf01037106017080

It appears that we still have a gap of about 12 years between the records in Norway on Rolf Sørensen and the records in US about Ralph Rivers.

Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 05/10/2016 18:51:29
Message:

Well Ralph has to come to Mary or Mary has to come to Ralph.

Here is Mary in the 1910 census at Bristol, Rhode Island:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MP6K-F7M

1920 Census, not yet married:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MJVF-68S

Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 05/10/2016 21:58:13
Message:

Rolf's next eldest brother Birger Trygve Johan Sørensen also put to sea between 7797 and 7798, at least one voyage to US:
SAO, Oslo mønstringskontor, F/Fc/Fca/L0004: Annotasjonsrulle, 1897-1908, p. 40
Quick link: https://media.digitalarkivet.no/en/ru20090416640042

Here is the other record associated with Birger's maritime life #4151
SAO, Oslo sjømannskontor, F/Fc/L0004: Hovedrulle, 1904, p. 115-116
Quick link: https://media.digitalarkivet.no/en/ru10051003110065

This is perhaps Birger the brother in the 1900 census. What is waisenhusbarn?
http://digitalarkivet.arkivverket.no/ft/person/pf01037045005232

He came to US and lived in New York

He named a son Ralph who died young:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2WN2-L5F

1920 Census:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MJ5J-CMT

1930 census, 2 daughters Lillian and Alfild:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X4J3-7KS

1942 Draft Reg b 24 Sept 1886 Oslo:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:F36V-NWR

A possible cousin you never met? Lillian Sorensen Hogrebe?
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QK71-M5VV

This Lillian looks promising because her mother Mrs. Jennie (Nilsen)Sorensen died at the home of her daughter Mrs. Knut Hogrebe on 15 Nov 1969 in Enfield Mass. Only survivors mentioned by name are the daughter and a brother Nils in Norway.Reported in the Springfield (Mass.) Union 17 Nov 1969,

Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 06/10/2016 00:20:23
Message:

It would be valuable to have Harda Deichmann-Sørensen's dodfallsprotokol, it is in the index 10 /10 1935 1191 I but when I got to look at the book, a block message came up and said adoption records are private for 100 years since adoptions are sometimes disclosed in probate records this leads to probate records being blocked as well. I wonder if there is an obituary for Enkefru Deichmann-Sørensen?

Reply author: AntonH
Replied on: 06/10/2016 16:43:18
Message:

quote:

---

What is waisenhusbarn?

---

Reply author: jwiborg
Replied on: 06/10/2016 18:29:13
Message:

quote:

---

Originally posted by jkmarler
What is waisenhusbarn?

---

Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 06/10/2016 18:59:55
Message:

Hmm Rolf's Birger would only have been 1/2 an orphan so might not be him but if the child is not, then where is he in 1900?

Reply author: peder
Replied on: 07/10/2016 14:25:57
Message:

birger trygve seems to be here in the 1900 census. name Trygve

http://www.rhd.uit.no/folketellinger/ftliste_e.aspx?ft=1900&knr=0301&kenr=019&bnr=0015&lnr=01

Reply author: jwiborg
Replied on: 08/10/2016 00:59:11
Message:

I have today been in contact with a granddaughter of Bjørn Sverre!

Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 08/10/2016 01:31:41
Message:

quote:

---

Originally posted by jwiborg

I have today been in contact with a granddaughter of Bjørn Sverre!

---

Reply author: Ashley K
Replied on: 30/10/2020 17:03:52
Message:

quote:

---

Originally posted by jkmarler

quote:

---

Originally posted by jwiborg

I have today been in contact with a granddaughter of Bjørn Sverre!

---

Way cool! Now if we can only get the O.P. to come back....

---

Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 30/10/2020 23:55:52
Message:

Thanks for response. Do you have any questions about the findings?

Reply author: Ashley K
Replied on: 07/03/2021 23:26:58
Message:

quote:

---

Originally posted by jkmarler

Thanks for response. Do you have any questions about the findings?

---

Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 08/03/2021 15:19:04
Message:

quote:

---

Originally posted by jkmarler

There is a death in the British Columbia Canada death record set in the 1970s for a man named Wall Rivers who was born in Setskogen, Norway in the 1890s.
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FLBX-B8L

His name at birth is Ragnvald #5:
SAO, Høland prestekontor Kirkebøker, F/Fc/L0001: Ministerialbok nr. III 1, 1880-1897, s. 28
Brukslenke for sidevisning: https://media.digitalarkivet.no/kb20060719030031


Here is a long shot Torolf / Toralf Wang b 12 Aug 1890:
http://digitalarkivet.arkivverket.no/gen/vis/279/pk00000000534794

As Toralf Pedersen in the 1900 census:
http://digitalarkivet.arkivverket.no/ft/person/pf01037091006789

Listed as deceased in 1910:
http://digitalarkivet.arkivverket.no/gen/vis/267/pg00000000559170


The things to like about Toralf is that his name could be reasonably shortened to Ralph and his birthdate is on the money. But many elements in the family story don't match the records on him, not clear where the Sorenson comes in nor Rivers and the story of leaving at age 13 or thereabouts. But I think I'll check the death record to see if he disappeared or is thought to have drowned or some such.

Cause of death looks to me like appendicitis, so no mysterious disappearance or drowning. Back to drawing board.

---

Reply author: Ashley K
Replied on: 19/03/2021 19:09:39
Message:

if you don't mind, what is the order of Ralph's family remembers? Like his parents, grandparents, siblings.

Reply author: jkmarler
Replied on: 21/03/2021 05:05:10
Message:

Rolf's parents: Harda Sofie Andrea Deichmann (many spellings of this surname are found) b. 10 Nov 1861 Slagen (or Sem) d. 15 Oct 1935

Andreas Sørensen b. 27 Sept 1853 Stromso d. 26 Sept 1893
Harda and Andreas married on 6 Sept 1884 Kristiania.

Rolf's siblings:
Bjorn Sverre Deichman Sorensen b. 5 Mar 1885 Krisitiania
d. 16 Jan 1965

Birger Trygve Johan Deichman Sorensen b. 24 Sept 1886

Elly Sophie Deichman Sorensen b. Oct 1890 d. about 18 Oct 1894

Alfhild Bergliot Deichman Sorensen b. 27 Aug 1892 Nordstrand d. on or about 12 May 1942

Andreas Deichman Sorensen b. 5 Feb 1894 Kristiania

Norway Heritage Community : http://www.norwayheritage.com/snitz/