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carraj
Medium member
USA
107 Posts |
 Posted - 22/04/2005 : 07:00:04
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Have exhausted everything I know to do to find ship's records of 3 brothers, with no luck. I would appreciate it if someone could please point me in the right direction? Emigration dates are from US Census, Minnesota.
Peder Odin Johnson, Born 1871, Emigrated 1889 (All may also have used "Pederson" instead of "Johnson")
Benhard S Johnson, Born 1869, Emigrated 1891 (Also spelled "Bernhard/Bernard")
Martin Ole Johnson, Born 1877, Emigrated 1893
Family in 1865 Census, Father Peder Johnson, Mother Olina Pedersdatter. (Distriknr 6, Side 113, Skoledistrikt Ritsen, Sogn Risen, Prestegjeld Stadsbygd, Gardsnavn Nostbraettingen, Overskrift 1. Post 721-727)
Any guidance would be greatly appreciated! |
Carra Johnson |
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Hopkins
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3351 Posts |
Posted - 22/04/2005 : 15:52:42
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I will try the emigration databases at the Digitalarkivet.
You say they lived at Stadsbygd on a farm called Nostbraettingen -- that is in Sør-Trøndelag and therefore the closest port of departure would probably be Trondheim. (Narrowing down search to database for emigration register for Trondheim 1867-1930.)
The most unusual name of the three boys is of course 'Benhard S. Johnson' or more likely Bernhard, born about 1869 and left Norway about 1891 - I always like to search for the 'least common first'.
Here in the previously Trondheim database for emigration -
http://digitalarkivet.uib.no/cgi-win/webcens.exe?slag=visbase&filnamn=EMITROND&gardpostnr=64805&sokefelt=skjul
Bernhard leaves with a younger sister and she lists the farm name Nøst as part of her identification. (Other members of the family may have done the same - keep note of that!)
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Hopkins
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3351 Posts |
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Hopkins
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3351 Posts |
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carraj
Medium member
USA
107 Posts |
Posted - 23/04/2005 : 02:45:19
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THANK YOU! THANK YOU! I have spent hours searching in exactly the same place in digitalarkivet where you found them, ausing much of the same search philosophy/advice that you are so generously sharing. I feel like an idiot that I was not able to find them myself, but I bless you for finding them! I am going to now try to find them myself again since I know that they ARE there. If I can master the search process there, (I have over a dozen more members to find) perhaps I can do for someone else on this forum what you have so kindly done for me!
The sister "Olivia" listed with Benhard in 1891 is actually "Ovidia" and you are right, there is some connection to the Nost farm. I don't quite know what it is yet. Another sister Karen, who immigrated in 1889, I recently discovered on her marriage certificate listed her name as "Karen Johnson Nost". She may have emigrated with a baby it appears, and got married almost immediately upon arriving in Minnesota so we thought perhaps there was a previous marriage to a "Nost" in Norway. Based on your findings, that's most likely not the case. I appreciate your information that this is a farm name, I would not have known that.
With Martin that you found in 1993 is someone (Johan Johanson Sve) who has listed the same name as Martin's older sister who never emigrated, Methe Maria who married Ole Sve, born 1855 in Ritsen. Is this a farm name also? I will try to pursue a relationship between Johan and Ole.
I agree about the first brother .. I will pursue him from different angles and see what I can come up with! Thank you again! |
Carra Johnson |
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Hopkins
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3351 Posts |
Posted - 23/04/2005 : 05:22:35
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Actually it was YOU that mentioned Nøst/Nost farm first . In your original posting of this thread you stated "Skoledistrikt Ritsen, Sogn Risen, Prestegjeld Stadsbygd, Gardsnavn Nostbraettingen" and that pretty much translates to School District Ritsen, Parish Risen, Clerical District Stadsbygd, Farm Name Nostbraettingen.
Notice the Nost in the beginning of the farm name? That's the connection to Nøst or Nost right there.
I hadn't bothered to check what you listed from the 1865 census for the family. But I just did and the farm name is actually Nøstbrættingen. In fact there are two farms there by that name in 1865 AND two farms called Nøst which will probably all turn out to have come from an older larger original farm also earlier known as Nøst or some similar spelling. You'll learn about that when you study the history of the parish and area.
A quick summary of one of the search patterns I used in that database. Entered the Trondheim emigration database. Narrowed first to all the males (usually wouldn't have started with that... but just felt like it). Then narrowed to year starting with (and view) 189... and chose those the year you listed PLUS one year on either side of that. Then all with given name starting with 'Be'. Then all with given name containing 'ard'. Then asked for all terms of last or surnames to be listed - chose all with names begining with Pe... or Joh.... and I think one had a 'nost' similarity. Not very many left in the 'pool' - so checked what I should expect the age of the emigrant to be from your original information and scanned down the 'possibles' for those closest to that age - watching for other pieces of information that matched like previous residence. You could have done those various searches in almost any order and had the same result or close.
Leaving as much room for spelling errors or variations in names (both first and last) as possible - and keeping in mind that many of us including those listed in the databases have and had problems remembering dates completely accurately - you narrow down the list of possibles as carefully as possible.
You can't be sure exactly where they would have said they were from.... the parish name? the school district? the school district? the name of the broader valley/fjord/etc? For those data items that you can't rely on - you have to carefully consider a way to capture the greatest number of possible right answers. Clear as mud? (Sorry - but it makes perfect sense to me.)
I can't really give you the perfect English version of the search options in the Digitalarkivet databases. I use the Norwegian version of those databases - trying to FORCE myself to learn a little more of the language.
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carraj
Medium member
USA
107 Posts |
Posted - 23/04/2005 : 06:45:30
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Thank you so much for taking the time to share your search patterns for locating persons in Digitalarkivet databases. I know that everyone reading through the posts on this site will benefit as much from your teachings/suggestions as much as I am. They are very, very clear and usable! I particularly learned a good trick from "Then narrowed to year starting with (and view) 189... and chose those the year you listed PLUS one year on either side of that. Then all with given name starting with 'Be'. Then all with given name containing 'ard'. Then asked for all terms of last or surnames to be listed - chose all with names begining with Pe... or Joh.... " I used some of the others you mentioned, but didn't think of these! They will be of great assistance on future searches! Although I use the English option on Digitalarkivet when it is offered, I have never found the key to an English version of the search options if they exist. I agree with you, (my English to Norwegian dictionary in hand), it is a perfect opportunity to learn more of the language.
I got sidetracked reading about the ships and the journey on this wonderful site, now that you led me to the names and lines my relatives were on. I had a real "duhh" moment this evening realizing that the emigration record's ship listing is only the ship for the first leg of the journey, in this case from Trondheim to Hull, not the ship from Trondheim to New York. (Duhh!) Pursuing further the Cunard Line ship "Juno" from Trondheim to Hull on May 27, 1891, it seems from the great information on this site that it might be logical to assume that the journey continued on a Cunard line ship from Liverpool to New York after a train journey from Hull to Liverpool? And if so, would it then be logical to assume that this particular journey would have continued on the Cunard line ship S/S Etruria which arrived from Liverpool in New York 1891-06-06? Or is there a better way to try to follow the journey all the way?
Again, thank you ... your guidance is priceless. |
Carra Johnson |
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Hopkins
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3351 Posts |
Posted - 23/04/2005 : 16:34:31
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Sticking to one shipping line the entire journey? That's beyond me. The 'long-timers' on this website would probably be much better able to guess.
To my way of thinking - if I know WHEN they left Norway and WHAT port they said they were headed for -- I find out how to get to microfilm copies of the lists of arrivals at that port (Usually the LDS for me). Give the emigrants a bit of time (age of sail vs. age of steam adjustment) and start rolling the microfilm looking at all ships arriving from likely ports very slowly (fingers crossed for good handwriting and unfaded ink). After such effort - a loud amount of whooping and hollering and a dance are enjoyed when success is met.
One great-grandfather gave me much trouble -- he left Norway and stayed in England well over a month before he boarded another ship -- I haven't got the slightest idea what that 18 year old was actually up to - but I sure hope he had a good time. |
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Jo Anne Sadler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
1100 Posts |
Posted - 23/04/2005 : 18:20:29
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The shipping agents arranged for the emigrant's entire journey, to their final destination, including the train tickets. Generally, agents of the line who spoke Norwegian and English met the immigrants and helped with their connections. The great majority of time people traveled together to a final destination, maybe not relatives but at least people from the same area.
From information on this site, the Cunard Line never operated a direct route to America. In 1891, from Trondheim on the Cunard Line:
Steamship to Hull, by railway to Liverpool and by steamship to New York or Boston and from there on to the final destination.
Could not find them in New York databases but that just means I could not find them, they may have come through New York but a better possibility is to check Boston passenger lists. |
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carraj
Medium member
USA
107 Posts |
Posted - 23/04/2005 : 22:31:10
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| Thank you both for your guidance, I will follow your suggestions. (Including the "loud amount of whooping and hollering and a dance"!) |
Carra Johnson |
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carraj
Medium member
USA
107 Posts |
Posted - 10/05/2005 : 08:03:10
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| Hopkins, I wanted to let you know that tonight I had one of the moments you mentioned in your kind posting of April 23 ... "loud amount of whooping and hollering and a dance are enjoyed when success is met" You generously helped me locate ship's records for 3 great-uncles, but were concerned about one because "his destination as listed did not match the information you mentioned". Tonight I read a newly acquired account of his life, given by his elderly daughter: "In 1888, a couple in the state of Kansas offered to pay Peter's ticket to America. In return he would come and work for them on their farm. I believe he worked there 2 years. When he left Kansas, he headed north, two of his sisters had already come to America and settled in the Hendrum, Minnesota area." YOU FOUND THE RIGHT GUY!!! Even though it looked like he was going to the wrong place!! Thanks again so much!! |
Carra Johnson |
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Hopkins
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3351 Posts |
Posted - 10/05/2005 : 16:10:46
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I'm very pleased for you. Wish I could have seen the moment of discovery and the celebration!
I hope your family history research has many such moments of success in the future!
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3 brothers emigration from Risen/Stadsbygd area
