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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
 Posted - 22/01/2012 : 05:47:40
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quote:
Originally posted by RandyFisher
Why does GGGGrandfather Guttorm Amundsen not take his father’s last name, Amund Guttormsen? Why would he use “Amundsen” as his last name?
Lastly, is it possible that Albertine be 2nd or 3rd cousins to Roald? I understand Roald’s father, Jens, has several brothers, Petter, Johannes, Carl, and Amund. Could one of these Roald Uncles have a son named Amund Guttormsen?
Naming practice in Norway during the 1700s, 1800s was not , in the majority of cases, inheriting a surname from your father.
Your last name came from your father's first name during that time. So the answer to your first question is because his father's first name was Amund.
Since none of these men have Guttorm for a first name it is unlikely they would have have a son named Guttormson.
From 1923 and on, Norwegians have inherited surnames by law. And when the Norwegians came to US the mix of names came due to trying to make their lives "fit in" with American customs. Each person had to find a way to make it work for them here, producing a wide variety of names. |
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Kåarto
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
5861 Posts |
Posted - 22/01/2012 : 10:49:35
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quote:
Originally posted by RandyFisher
I understand Roald’s father, Jens, has several brothers, Petter, Johannes, Carl, and Amund. Could one of these Roald Uncles have a son named Amund Guttormsen
Norwegian naming tradition that was practiced in more that 1000 years ended ca 1900.
It´s still used but very rarely. Icelend still practice it.
Reg. Jens brothers Petter, Johannes, Carl and Amund and a possible son Amund, he would have been named;
Amund Pettersen (Petters son)
Amund Johannesen (Johannes son)
Amund Carlsen (Carls son)
Amund Amundsen (Amunds son)
Kåre |
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RandyFisher
Starting member
USA
6 Posts |
Posted - 22/01/2012 : 15:29:44
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So the daughter, Albertine Amundsen [person I’m interested in], would take her father’s last night of Guttorm Amundsen but the sons traditionally take their father’s first name? If so, unless we can link a “Guttorm” in the Roald chain then Albertine is probably not related (1st, 2nd nor 3rd cousins).
Thank you everyone from the United States for helping me.
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Randy Fisher |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
Posted - 22/01/2012 : 15:48:42
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Hey Randy,
No, women go under the same rules--if her father was an Amund she would be an Amundsdatter, if her father was a Guttorm she was a Guttormsdatter and so on.
Datter names probably disappeared first in the immigrant population in America as there was no Yankee equivalent.
Jackie M.. |
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Hopkins
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3351 Posts |
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RandyFisher
Starting member
USA
6 Posts |
Posted - 23/01/2012 : 02:56:08
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To Jackie... thank you for the reply. I do not understand why her name is not "Alberine Guttormsdatter" but instead breaks tradition and keeps Amundsen has her last name. Would you know of common reasons?
In Einar's earlie post they include several links to Alberine and her father and grandfather... is there any website that shows a complete listing of Roald's Uncles and Cousins? Or do I have to drill down into each uncle separately?
Basically, I have always been told that Alberine was related to Roald. We all assumed the Amundsen name would be easy to trace within the past 150 years... I guess not.
Thank you again for your time. |
Randy Fisher |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
Posted - 23/01/2012 : 03:47:09
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Hi Randy,
Well, a Roald Amundson link is a very common family tale. If you read through the posts on this site, very few can be substantiated in records. It sounds like you might like to follow such a project through to make a comprehensive list of relatives, and that would be a welcome venture.
As to the name Albertine was known by, I guess the difference might be in where the record which gives her surname as Amundson is kept, in Norway or in America. Was she married in Norway and how was she recorded in that record? Most likely she was confirmed in Norway, how is she recorded in that record?
The most common reason why someone might be known by one name or another depends on the situation. In America, only very occasionally and usually at the time of the very earliest settlers will the "datter" names be recorded. Usually they become "sons" even though they are daughters. And if a person of authority, such as a clerk of court, asks your name and you aren't sure of the language or what they are meaning with the question and they then ask your father's name, you give it. The default in America is your last name is the same as your father's last name. And because of the situation above you are recorded with that name.
I know of a family here, in all the various census records from 1860-1885 are known by their father's patronymic name Knudson. After his death, then the children all changed and became Thorson which is what any male child of their father would have been known as in Norway, since his first name was Thor. Every person, every family has a different approach to their name.
Good Luck to you
Jackie M. |
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ariordan
Starting member
Australia
15 Posts |
Posted - 18/09/2013 : 02:04:20
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| Am very interested in work done on Amundsen tree as I am still trying for the connection to Ludwig Valle who came to Victoria1860,s . We have a letter written to Ruth Valle from Roald Amundsen on way back from South Pole. We were always told he was Ludwig's father ( Truls) cousin |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
Posted - 18/09/2013 : 03:05:10
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| What does the letter say? |
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ariordan
Starting member
Australia
15 Posts |
Posted - 18/09/2013 : 05:52:54
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| He was sending greetings and expressing wish to come to Australia some time ... actually sent to Ludwig Valle and we always thought he was a first or second cousin of Roald |
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hasto
Senior member
Norway
294 Posts |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
Posted - 18/09/2013 : 14:49:24
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quote:
Originally posted by ariordan
He was sending greetings and expressing wish to come to Australia some time ... actually sent to Ludwig Valle and we always thought he was a first or second cousin of Roald
Was the letter in Norwegian or English? |
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ariordan
Starting member
Australia
15 Posts |
Posted - 19/09/2013 : 03:09:33
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| I would love to read the blog re 'relatives' in English |
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ariordan
Starting member
Australia
15 Posts |
Posted - 19/09/2013 : 03:47:14
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| I have been told that there is a connection between the Torp family and the Valle family . I see The Torp family was connected to Amundsen .Could this be the connection from 1700's ? |
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ariordan
Starting member
Australia
15 Posts |
Posted - 19/09/2013 : 12:16:00
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| The letter from Amundsen was in English and referred to his 'niece, Ruth Valle or Walle as oho toes are often marked |
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Roald Amundsen (1872-1928), Norwegian Explorer
