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Borge
Veteran Moderator
Norway
1297 Posts |
 Posted - 15/05/2005 : 08:49:43
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| It should be written "Kvæn" or "Kvaen". Here is a link to an article about the Sami law in English. Sami law |
Børge Solem |
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Neil Tangen
New on board
USA
3 Posts |
Posted - 30/05/2005 : 16:01:59
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This is all very fascinating. I looked for several days before I found this cite, which is discussing my very questions.
I am 7/8 Norwegian [1/16 German & 1/16 English]. My dad was full Norwegian and my mother is ¾.
I have Vladres ancestry on both sides: my dad’s paternal grandmother and maternal grandmother and my mother’s paternal grandmother are all Valdres. The rest are more near Oslo I think.
I am the lightest one in either side of the family, especially on my dad’s. I am also the only one with red-blond hair and very blue eyes. My brother’s hair is darker with a reddish tint and his eyes more hazel. My beard is red, not deep red. Our sister has dark hair and is darker complected, with nearly brownish eyes. Both parent had blue eyes. However, my dad’s mother had black hair & brown eyes.
My dad mother was very dark, as is one of his brothers. Of five boys, all are darker than I am.
My mother once told me that my dad’s grandmother looked like an old Indian Woman. Since my mother grew up on a reservation in North Dakota, she is not a stranger to Native Americans.
Anyway, I have always wondered if my dad’s mother was Lapp [Saami].
I have not been able to find any information on the frequency of Saami heritage in Valdres.
Most of us are descended form the German tribes that pushed the Saami north. I would imagine that some Saami ancestry in Norwegians is not uncommon. It would seem that the dark Norwegian’s are more likely Saami than resulting from women carried off by the Vikings. Those boats only held so many people.
Can anyone tell me if there were Saami in Valdres. If so, how does one determine that?
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neil tangen |
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Borge
Veteran Moderator
Norway
1297 Posts |
Posted - 31/05/2005 : 20:56:37
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| I don't know if there are many Lapp people in Valdres, but I know the main Lapp population is living in the northern pats of Norway, Sweden and Finland. I have met many persons of Lapp descent, and many of them are not very dark. Also I think that the assumption of all Norwegians being blond in a historic perspective is stereotype. The majority may have been blond, but there are several examples from the historic sources revealing that Norwegians in old ages could be quite dark without there being any specific reason. |
Børge Solem |
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Neil Tangen
New on board
USA
3 Posts |
Posted - 01/06/2005 : 04:50:47
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Yes, however, are not the modern Lapps part Germanic these days.
Likewise, the German tribes came in and pushed the Lapps north as long as 2,0000 years ago; so, it would seem that dark Norwegians in the center of Norway might be the result of that interplay.
It seems there are more dark Norwegians than dark Swedes.
Neil Tangen
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neil tangen |
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Neil Tangen
New on board
USA
3 Posts |
Posted - 14/08/2005 : 05:34:06
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I have directed my query to the Saami Council.
NRT
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neil tangen |
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ninakarls
Senior member
Norway
232 Posts |
Posted - 14/08/2005 : 16:28:26
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| It's interesting that nobody has brought up the "tater" population in this discussion. In Valdres, a lappish origin would be rare. The Norwegian "taters" who claim to be of Romani descent (gypsy) would be rather common. A mixed marriage might well be a reason to emigrate, as these people were "nomads", (though not like the sami with their reindeer herds) and not very popular in the farming communities (regarded the same way as "tinkers" in Great Britain). I've seen pictures of old women of this ethnisity who definitely have similar traits with the native American population, though not all of them are as dark as Gypsies or Indians. |
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debbie jacobsen
Starting member
USA
28 Posts |
Posted - 22/08/2005 : 04:29:12
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Yes, there are many non-fairskinned and non blonde Norwegians. And as these many replies indicate, there are a variety of reasons for this. Regarding the Lapplanders or Samer, they are a Mongol or Mongolian race - I'm certain that all children in the United States learned about the people from northeast Asia who traveled across the to Alaska and south into what is the US today - the early ancestors of the Native American / American Indian population. And so yes, it stands to reason that Lapps/Samer share physical characteristics with Native Americans.
And then as someone else mentioned there are "tater." Another name for tater is "sigøyner." Tater or Sigøyner is the Norwegian word for gypsy. I was always told that they originally came from India, and through a hundred years of traveling have moved through Europe. At some point they temporarily settled in eastern Europe, in Romania, Turkey, etc.. Eventually, the sigøyners in Norway seemed to end-up largely between Arendal and Lista. On the peninsula Lista, the gypies, who were there called "fante" lived in a colony of bungalows and shacks called "Hollywood." They went door to door and sharpened knives, etc. I do, by the way, think there is a connection between the tater, sigøyner, fanter of Norway and the "Tinkers" of Ireland. For further information, there is a book by Thor Gotaas, who has a lot of knowledge on the subject. Because these gypies were a sub-culture, intermarriage between Norwegians and the Gypies was not common.
Are your Dark Norwegian ancestors from the coastline? My father, for example had ruddy dark skin, black hair and hazel eyes. His father's skin was olive and his eyes were dark brown. On my mother's side, there are many people with brown eyes and light brown hair or even red hair. Some of them have very white skin both with and without freckles (they burn easilty) and others are light, but not white (they tan). These families have all been on the coastline for 400 + years. In addition to the expected sailing and trading and fishing, there was boat building. I know that in my family, there were young men who left Norway to build boats in Holland in the 1600s. It was not a suprise when they returned home to Norway with Dutch wives.
If you dig a little deeper and think about where in Norway these ancestors lived, you'll probably be able to figure out where the "darkness" came from.
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das
Starting member
USA
20 Posts |
Posted - 22/08/2005 : 21:22:24
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I'm new @ this. Great post Debbie. Perhaps if I put some of my family info out here you could tell me whether or not they may qualify to be Sami / Gypsi, or not. Perhaps just good old Norske.
My mother was called a "black norwegian". Brunette hair with dark brown eyes and white skinned with a hint of freckles. Her father, my grandfather, was the same. She had sibs that were red haired with sky blue eyes as was my grandmother.
My grandfathers people were from Lyster / Luster Sogn og fjordane. I think this area is north of Bergen but I'm not sure. Is this near the coast or subject to coastal ventures? Oh ya, My GG grandfathers name was Lars Larson Hengesteg if that helps. Thanks, David
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Edited by - das on 24/08/2005 22:59:04 |
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kaare n
Medium member
Norway
114 Posts |
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das
Starting member
USA
20 Posts |
Posted - 25/08/2005 : 16:08:22
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Thank you for all the help and your efforts. My original intent was to try and determine the "Dark" norwegian traits that are sometimes exhibited in my family. I was wondering if the geographical location of the farms / farm names might tell us something about the people there.
As I stated in my original post my Mother said that she was called a "black Norwegian". Her brunette hair and dark brown eyes have been passed to two of my brothers and to one of my sons. No unusal physical traits,squattiness,etc...Actually the exact opposite. Quite striking features. My son David (the dark one) has been used in rock videos, commercials and photo ads. My son Jurgen is the fair haired having blonde hair and my daughter Kirsten is blonde as well ( you can see David & Jurgen on my web site under"instructors").
Since you asked about birth date and other info that I might have on Lars Larson Hengesteg here is what I have;
Lewis L. Lewison (my G grandfather) born August 19th 1850 in Lyster, Sogn(Luster church records). Lewis L. Lewison was most likely Lars Larsen in Norway. Baptized Lars Larsen Hengesteg, son of Lars Larsen Hengesteg and wife, Gjertrud Henricksdatter, Sept. 22,1850. Lyster is the old way to spell Luster, Sogn og Fjordane.
Lars Oyane's Gards og Attesoge for Luster Kommune finds these persons living on the Hengesteg farm in Luster.
Lars Larsson Hengesteg born 1823
Wife -Gjertrude Henricksdatter Sandvik born Dec. 17 1822
Lars and Gjertrude lived @ Hengesteg until their emigration to USA in 1861 with their children which one of them was Lars Larson born Sept. 22 1850. They changed their names to Lewis and Gertrude Lewison as did Lars (their son) to Lewis L. Lewison.
Lewis L. Lewison Married (in the USA) Anna Rasmusdatter. Daughter to Rasmus and Kirsti Boyum.
Sorry I don't know how to use the correct punctuation. The "O" in Boyum has a slash through it.
That brings me to another topic... What kind of name is Boyum? Doesn't sound Norwegian.
Thank you for your ear and any help.
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Edited by - das on 15/09/2005 16:37:48 |
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kaare n
Medium member
Norway
114 Posts |
Posted - 25/08/2005 : 16:20:31
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Bøyum is maybe Norwegian
Here is a place calle Bøyum.
Click to see the map
It is many people to day, that has this surname |
Edited by - Borge on 25/08/2005 19:36:37 |
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das
Starting member
USA
20 Posts |
Posted - 25/08/2005 : 18:33:49
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| Kaare , Thank you so very much for the maps and your time. I copied the maps and sent them to mom. I was wondering if Boyum and Hengesteg have liliteral translations for something or someone. |
Edited by - das on 26/08/2005 14:05:02 |
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kaare n
Medium member
Norway
114 Posts |
Posted - 16/09/2005 : 22:45:18
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Bøyum is from old Norwegin. I will find the meaning later.
Just some links
http://www.sognafoto.no/bilde.asp?key=3044
http://www.sognafoto.no/bilde.asp?key=3495
http://www.sognafoto.no/bilde.asp?key=3045
http://www.fjordinfo.no/fjaerland/boyum.html
http://www.nrk.no/nyheter/distrikt/nrk_sogn_og_fjordane/fylkesleksikon/2806775.html
http://www.boyum.org/genealogy/d0001/g0000037.shtml
http://www.boyum.org/narratives/firstgen.shtml
Found one old posting
Name: Viggo M. Fosse
vimfosse@online.no <vimfosse@online.no>
Website:
Referred by: Just Surfed On In!
From: Bergen, Norway
Time: 1997-07-29 17:08:00
Comments: My current research is focused on tracing descendants of relatives who emigrated from Vik & Balestrand in Sogn, Norway. The Vik emigrants were associated with farms/surnames such as: DALE/DAHLE, NESE/NESS/NESETH/NASETH, HALSETH, AASE, FRETHEIM/FRETTEM, HAUGLUM/HOUGLUM/HOLUM, VALSVIK/WALSWICK, ALREK/ALRICK, RØYRVIK, WANGE, TENNEFOSS, NESSE, SETANE/SATHE, VANGSNES/WANGSNESS etc. The Balestarnd emigrants were associated with farms/surnames such as: DALE/DAHLE, FARNES, MEEL, SKRENES, TORSNES, BØYUM, etc. I look forward to be hearing from anyone with relations to, and info on, the above surnames.
http://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse.dll?gskw=Boyum&ti=3&ti.si=3&rank=0&hc=25&gss=mb&db=mb&p=localities.scan-balt.norway&application=public&filter=0&utype=Admin&mbtitle=Norway+Category
Kåre |
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das
Starting member
USA
20 Posts |
Posted - 20/09/2005 : 23:24:10
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| Thank you Kaare! Wonderful pictures. From maps it looks like the Boyum farm and the Hengesteg farm weren't that far apart. I know from the pictures that Jan sent that Hengesteg is on the Sogn Fjord. From your photos it looks as though Boyum is situated over the mountain. I 'm wondering if these families might have known each other prior to coming to U.S.A. This is where they are listed as meeting and marrying. |
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jwiborg
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
4961 Posts |
Posted - 21/09/2005 : 00:03:12
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Hi,
the distance between Bøyum farm in Aurland, and Hengesteg farm in Luster is 78km (48 miles). It will take you 1hr and 15 minutes today, if you take the "blue" road... 
Jan Peter |
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Dark Norwegians?
Topic Locked
