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Richard Schumacher
Junior member
USA
53 Posts |
 Posted - 04/10/2006 : 03:02:46
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I have reason to believe that a Christie Louisa Mattes is my g-g-grandmother. She married my g-g-grandfather, Peter Ondell, in Whitewater, Walworth County, Wisconsin. Peter was there in a boarding house alone in 1850 according to the census. Other records show the first two of the four children born in Milwaukee, which in near by. Whitewater was quite primitive in 1850 and many wives apparently lived in Milwaukee, while the husbands worked around there.
The Wisconsin Archives lists the marriage date as April 18, 1851. The original hand written "certificate" is difficult to read and the date looks like 1857, but I am not an expert with the script. The name is slighlty difficult to real accurately, but seems to be reasonanly accurate for the time. The witnesses were Caroline Talloof and Talloof Talloof?
She also apparently shows up in the 1860 U.S. Census as a "Chasten Ollendorf", wife of Peter was listed as "Peter Ollendorf". The children's names and ages were correct (and agree with all other documents), except fot the family name in 1860 census only. The address was also correct and agreed with 1870 and 1880. Apparently, the census taker was a first generation with a different language than the first generation residents. In the census, Christie's birth was shown as being in Norway in 1814. There was no mention of her after the census and Peter remarried in the 1860's
I have looked at some sources for her, but she left Norway before the 1860 Census. I am trying to determine what her actual name may have been, so I can look elsewhere. I looked for the witnesses since they may have been related or from the same area/farm. No luck so far on the witnesses. I have no idea where in Norway Peter Ondell came from.
The death records in that part of Wisconsin were very poor at the time and the is nothing in the archives or local cemeteries.
Since I must assume she was from Norway, I would appreciate any help on possible Norwegian names since Mattis or Mattes do not seem Norwegian, but it could be Mathiasson or Matthewsson or ???
I am in Minneapolis/St. Paul and have access to many fine Family History Centers and very good libraries. If necessary, I will buy a service (Ancestry, etc. if necessary), but I need to know what to look for since I have plenty of time.
Thanks in advance for any assistance.
Dick
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jwiborg
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
4961 Posts |
Posted - 04/10/2006 : 11:43:55
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Hi,
this will be a hard nut to crack...! 
Let's start with the witnesses; I belive he could have been named Tollef Tollefsen in Norway. Caroline/Karoline could have been given the last name "Talloof " from her husband, so her patronym is uncertain at this point.
Btw; Tollef can be spelled in many ways in the norwegian census too; here are some variants of that name in the 1865-census, together with the number of reocurrences:
Tollef 1424
Tellef 783
Tollev 256
Tallef 158
Tøllef 78
Tølløv 75
Tolleif 34
Thollef 31
Tolef 21
Tolleiv 20
Tøllev 19
Tellev 15
Tollif 14
Tollov 11
Tollof 11
Christie Louisa Mattes could have been a Christine Louise Mattisdatter in Norway. (Mathisdatter - Mathiasdatter)
Regarding Peter Ondell, a lot of info is given here http://www.norwayheritage.com/snitz/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2865
I still believe he would be from one of these farms:
Ondal in Sørum, Akershus county
Aandalen in Vardal, Oppland county
Aandal in Gryten, Frænen & Thingvold, Møre og Romsdal county
Aandahl, in Gryten, Frænen & Thingvold, Møre og Romsdal county
Regarding this John Andreas Aandahl you mentioned in the same area in Wisconsin, was John's wife named Marie?
Here is a record of one Johan Andreas AANDAHL who married Marie LOKKE in Trondheim on 16 Nov 1847.
I believe you should look for Peters family in Møre og Romsdal county... 
Jan Peter |
Edited by - jwiborg on 04/10/2006 11:49:10 |
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jwiborg
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
4961 Posts |
Posted - 04/10/2006 : 20:48:30
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I saw from your other posting that this John Andreas Aandahl is the correct one, married to a Johanna Maria Johannesdatter Lokke...
Johan Ferdinand Johansen
Birth: 02 Dec 1849
Christening: 10 Mar 1850, Vor Frue Church, Trondheim, Sor-Trondelag, Norway
Death: 29 Dec 1850
Parents: Johan Pedersen & Johanna Marie Lokke link
(They probably got a new "Johan Ferdinand" two years later)
Petrine Oline Johansdatter Aandahl
Birth: 14 Jan 1855,
Christening: 22 Apr 1855, Domkirken Church, Trondheim, Sor-Trondelag, Norway
Parents: Johan Andreas Aandahl & Johanna Marie Lokke link
Jan Peter |
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jwiborg
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
4961 Posts |
Posted - 04/10/2006 : 21:26:24
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Hmmm.. how can we tie this family to Peter Ondell and/or John Andreas Pedersen Aandahl...?
I'm 99% sure they must be related somehow.... 
Jan Peter |
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Richard Schumacher
Junior member
USA
53 Posts |
Posted - 04/10/2006 : 23:14:47
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Jan Peter -
Thank you for the assistance, information and help.
I agree with you that there must be a relationship, but I cannot make a link any stronger than the smilarites of common names.
I was aware of the second Johan Fredinand and also Petrine, but not the second John Andreas.
There was a John Ondell (b. 1829 in Norway) in Walworth county in 1860 and another (son?) John Ondell (b. abt 1852 in Norway) in Walworth County. One in a rooming house and the younger with another family (John Myers).
There was also a John William Ondell (b. 1859 in Wisconsin) in the area - another son?. He married a Mary Chase. One refernce cites his father as John Oudell(Ondell) and his mother as just Mary. This sounds like it could be John Andreas Aandahl and Johanna Marie Johannesdatter Lokke, but I have no proof they ever came to the U.S. I have photos (circa 1905) of John William Ondell's grandson with my great Grandmother's childern at the home of another Ondell (Lena Elizabeth).
I have assumed there there was a connection and possibly my Peter Ondell was a brother of John Andreas Aandahl, but I have not been able to find where John Andreas came from. This could lead me to his siblings and immigration onformation. There may also be another brother, Samuel Ondell (married in Walworth County in 1858). He moved to another area with his family and became known as a Samuel Omdahl.
The imformation on the Tollefssen's was good, but I am going to concentrate on the more direct possibilities now. These are the Ondells and Peter Ondell's wife Christine Louise Maates. After more than ten years, I have almost enough information to write a book with no conclusion.
Thank you again. Possibly my poor skill of reading Norwegian script will improve. My mother's family from Ringebu was much easier to follow.
Dick |
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jwiborg
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
4961 Posts |
Posted - 05/10/2006 : 00:31:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Richard Schumacher
I was aware of the second Johan Fredinand and also Petrine, but not the second John Andreas.
Which second John Andreas are you refering to?
John Andreas Aandahl's full name in Norway looks to be Johan Andreas Pedersen Aandahl, based on the christening records of his children Johan Ferdinand and Petrine Oline.
So his father must have been a "Peder"...
Jan Peter |
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jwiborg
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
4961 Posts |
Posted - 05/10/2006 : 00:47:00
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Johana Maria Johanesdatter Lokke
Birth: 17 Jan 1816
Christening: 04 Apr 1816, Domkirken church, Trondheim, Sor-Trondelag, Norway
Parents: Johanes Lokke & Brynild link
Jan Peter |
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Richard Schumacher
Junior member
USA
53 Posts |
Posted - 05/10/2006 : 02:54:45
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Jan Peter - I caught the Pedersen just after I sent my reply. I just did not look far enough.
From the LDS Family Search source (church christening records), I have:
Johan Fredinand <Johansen> Father: Pedersen, Mother: Johanna Marie Lokke
b. 02 Dec 1849 in <Trondheim, Sor Trondelag, Norway>
chr. 10 Mar 1850 in Trondheim, Sor Trondelag, Norway
d. 29 Dec 1850
Johan Ferdinand <Johansen Aandahl> Father: Johan Aandahl, Mother Marie Aandahl
b. 09 Sept 1852 in <Trondheim, Sor Trondelag, Norway>
chr. 14 Nov 1852 in Trondheim, Sor Trondelag, Norway
Petrine Oline <Johansdatter Aandahl> Father: Johan Andreas Aandahl Mother: Johanna Marie Lokke
b. 14 Jan 1855 <Trondheim, Sor Trondelag, Norway>
chr. 22 Apr 1855 Domkirken, Trondheim, Sor Trondelag, Norway
Thank you for reminding me.
Dick |
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Brining
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
868 Posts |
Posted - 05/10/2006 : 05:02:28
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Hi The Wisconsin Historical Society biographical sketch listed for Martin Ondell (born 1857) History of La Crosse county, Wisconsin, page(s) 845-6
You can purchase a copy on the site Click Here It may have some information that could help (if you haven't already read it)
Carla
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Edited by - Brining on 06/10/2006 03:10:10 |
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Hopkins
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3351 Posts |
Posted - 05/10/2006 : 15:04:08
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Does the marriage certificate or record list the name of the person who performed the ceremony? a minister?
If a minister you might be able to find out what church he was with. Then a careful search for what happened to the records of that church.
A Lutheran minister sometimes made notes of the original parish(es) of baptism/confirmation of new members somewhere in his records.
See if any history of the church exists - it may have had Norwegian emigrants from only a few certain areas that joined together for worship.
The old records may have been forwarded to a central archives for that particular demonination/synod, they might have allowed the LDS to film them (but not too many did), or they may still be held by the church.
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Richard Schumacher
Junior member
USA
53 Posts |
Posted - 05/10/2006 : 15:40:14
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Hopkins -
I got the marriage record from the Wisconsin Vital Records. It is a hand written document on what appears to be lined paper signed by a Mr. P(?) Kinney, Minister with no church noted. There are three dates on the document: the date of the marriage (April 18, 1857(?), a date (April 19, 1857(?) below with Whitewater noted, and a date(April 26, 1857(?) above. There was no mention of a church. There is a question on the date. The state lists the as 1851 in the computer records, but after looking at the document, I would think it should be 1857.
Wisconsin seems to be a little different in the control of records. According to the local historic records, the first white settlers arrived about 10 years before the certificate was written and the practices may not have been well established. In the late 1850's there was a surge of settlement and marriages.
I will do some research on the possible church for a name and to look for any possible notes.
Thank you for the suggestion.
Dick |
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jwiborg
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
4961 Posts |
Posted - 05/10/2006 : 15:55:09
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Rev. Martin P. KINNEY served as a pastor over the church in Whitewater, Wis. click here
The Presbyterian church of Whitewater was formed July 3, 1840, at Deacon CRAVATH's house in Lima, led by Rev. Daniel SMITH. Looks like Martin P. KINNEY served there from 1844-1853. click here
Jan Peter |
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Richard Schumacher
Junior member
USA
53 Posts |
Posted - 06/10/2006 : 19:31:36
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Jan Peter -
The Presbyterian church in Whitewater no longer exists and I called the nearest Presbyterian church. They had no information and will try to see if the central church office has the originals.
I will keep searching the Mattis/Mattes connection in addition to the Ondells and the possibility of John Andreas Aandahl being a younger brother. John's wife may be the Mary Ondell from Monroe county that was in a state mental hospital from 1862 - 1888 (an official "dead-end" since the 9/11 security measures). The John Ondell in a closed, abandonded, child cemetery near Monroe county could be a son.
Thank you your assistance.
Dick |
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Christie/Chasten Louisa Mattes/Mattis
