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Gayle Bright
Starting member
New Zealand
9 Posts |
 Posted - 14/04/2009 : 11:12:36
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Hi Kare,
Yes they must have been very brave. I do know that Berthe's brother Johan Olsen was her Nominator for the Vogel Scheme, but still no sign of her husband. Johan had land not far away from where I am now living! Unfortunately from what I have found out recently - I'm not sure they were any better off coming to N.Z. Life here was very, very hard for them in those days and Birthe in particular. |
Gayle |
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Colleen Pallesen
Starting member
New Zealand
7 Posts |
Posted - 18/04/2009 : 13:45:01
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I am Anette Vollheim's (nee Andricksen) great granddaughter and have been researching this branch of the family for a while. My husband, son and I visited Sylling this time last year. Such a lovely spot - I would love to go again now that I know what farms the family were on. From my research it looks like the whole family were going to go to Queensland in Feb 1881 but they were still in Sylling when Kristen was born. It looks like Andreas left for America on his own on 17/6/1881. Going on the Angelo to England and then boarding the Germanic for New York. His age is a year out but everything else matches and they have him as Swedish on the Germanic passenger list but it ties in with the connecting ships as per this site.
I did not know there were any Andricksens left and am fascinated to how Peter is related?
With all my research I have no idea why I have not found this forum before!! |
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Kåarto
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
5861 Posts |
Posted - 18/04/2009 : 14:47:44
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As I told Peter, its a small world Colleen.
We can assume there are more "Andrickens" in N.Z.
I agree, Lier and Sylling is a beautiful place. Now when you know the location of the farms I understand if a new Journey to Lier is wanted.
Its a long distance between New Zealand and Norway, the most far away we can get to occupeid/inhabited land, if we should travel longer we would be on way back home again.
Then this could be Andreas Kristensen, age 33 dest Bay City, that explain why he seems to have been a missing person, his age seems as correct as we can expect.
Click on Gayle or Peters name and send them a message.
Kåre |
Edited by - Kåarto on 19/04/2009 15:55:15 |
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Gayle Bright
Starting member
New Zealand
9 Posts |
Posted - 19/04/2009 : 01:54:54
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Kare, Many thanks for finding that emigration record. It certainly fits in with the age of Andreas and would explain his disapearance and Birthe's subsequent "widowhood" and why she went out to her brother in N.Z. I am excited Colleen has responded and will email her directly.
Thanks again. Gayle |
Gayle |
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Colleen Pallesen
Starting member
New Zealand
7 Posts |
Posted - 19/04/2009 : 03:16:41
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Hi Kare
I want to say how wonderful the Norwegian census and parish records are. I knew so little about my Norwegian roots although it always fascinated me (even as a child) as the Andricksen's seemed to have so many secrets. Our branch of the family did not even know where in Norway the family came from except for some information from Kristen's Australian military records that said he was born near Drammen. My mother's cousin has done some research but always came to a dead end. But the information she gave to me was invaluable. She was able to give me the year Annete was born, the cemetery record for Berthe and the names of Anette's brothers and sisters and that Anette was born in Lear. No one had been able to find Lear but knowing that it was near Drammen meant I was able to use a google map to find Lier. From there it was easy to find Anette in the parish records and finally discover her father's name! And also to understand where the Andiricksen name came from. It would have been disappointing to go to Norway and not to find where they came from.
I have only gone back so far through the parish records because they get harder to follow as they get older. I think you need to understand Norwegian! It will be good to be able to add those older entries to my family tree that eibache has found. Also I had never been able to interpret the words in brackets under Karen Johanne's birth. It is also good to comfirm that Johanne Bergesdatter died from pneumonia. When I searched the parish records I found another sister of Berthe's - the youngest Olava born 7 July 1863 baptised 20 December 1863. In the 1865 census she was living as fosterbarn with Amund Andersen and Ingeborg Olsdatter at Kornerud. Johan, Bernt and Hans Olsen came to NZ in 1875. They left Norway on 2 October 1875 on St Olaf line to Hamburg then on the Shakespeare to New Zealand. There was a Hans Olsen at Kristen's baptism so perhaps he came back. Or maybe it was a different Hans Olsen.
I have found three brothers for Andreas:
Hans born 21 March 1847
Martin born 21 September 1851
Christian born 2 September 1855
I have looked in the 1900 census to see if any of the relatives were still around then, but have not found any. When did women start taking on their husband's names when they got married? Perhaps some of Bertha's sisters have a different name?
Colleen |
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eibache
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
6495 Posts |
Posted - 19/04/2009 : 08:44:41
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quote:
I have found three brothers for Andreas:
Hans born 21 March 1847
Martin born 21 September 1851
Christian born 2 September 1855
Just some comments on these dates:
Hans was born Jan 23 and baptized March 21.
Martin was born Sept 2 1851 and baptized March 7 1852
No birth date is given for Christian, he was baptized Sept 2. |
Einar |
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Colleen Pallesen
Starting member
New Zealand
7 Posts |
Posted - 19/04/2009 : 08:50:00
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| Thanks for the date corrections |
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Kåarto
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
5861 Posts |
Posted - 19/04/2009 : 09:03:06
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To Gayle and Colleen, I am happy for you, genealogy is exiting.
I guess it was ship routes between USA and Australia/N.Z., Bay City is in Michigan.
The Norwegian censuses and records are wonderful.
You seems to be familiare to them, her is Lier going back to 1672.
To find a person without any help is very exiting, can be challenging too, but after a while it works well.
Døpte means christened.
The censuses for Lier.
Use contains, start with one or two letters to see how the name is spelled, "same " names might have various spellings.
Ask for help if you are uncertain.
Fosterbarn means fosterchild Colleen.
Around 1900 woman started to take the husbands name when they married, from the 1865 censuses we can see some already praticed did, but that was unusual.
Island still practice this traditional naming, lasting for more than 1000 years.
Good luck.
Kåre
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Edited by - Kåarto on 19/04/2009 10:54:10 |
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orm overland
Starting member
Norway
22 Posts |
Posted - 19/04/2009 : 13:17:34
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| Some who have taken part in these exchanges seem to have been confused about last names in rural Norway where most people did not have family names in our sense until late ninettenth and early twentieth centuries. Their patronymic identified them as the son or daughter of their father. So naturally, this was not effected by marriage. The farm name that was also used was not a family name in our sense either. This name identified people by the place where they lived. So if a man in marriage became farmer on a farm inherited by his wife, he would take this farm name, but this does not mean that he took his wife's family name. On coming to a country where it was assumed that you had a family name, either a patronymic or a farm name became a family name. The change is evident when Ole, the son of Ole Nilsen, does not become Ole Olsen but Ole Nilsen. This will be obvious to many, but perhaps not obvious to all. |
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Kåarto
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
5861 Posts |
Posted - 19/04/2009 : 14:35:15
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Andreas three brothers are mentioned, he had more siblings, you asked if some of them are mentioned in the 1900 census.
All farms ending on -eie means owned by, it was a sub farm, Hørteeie was owned by Hørte etc.
We can start with Runsevoll under Hørte, almost bottom page.
"Fra omkring 1840...About 1840 Christian Hansen is mentioned, b. 1820 on Solbergeie, d. 1898, married to Kari Chistensdatter b. 1813 on Horn-eie, d. 1874.
Children; Kristine, Andrine, Hans (settled down on Engerhagen), Andreas (to Kyllingrud), Martin to Runterud under Solberg, Christian.
It was likley Runsevoll that was taken over by Christian Christiansen in 1875, born 1855, d. 1878, married to Anne Margrete Svendsdatter b. 1854 in Modum (daughter to Svend Larsen Vibe on Bjerknes in Modum parish in Buskerud County).
Children; Karl, Karen, Silia. They moved from here (Runsevoll) in 1877, then mentioned on Sylling eie. Christian died on Svang eie next year.
The next information is about another family.
Engerhagen under Østre Enger and Hans Christiansen is mentioned almost bottom.
......."Hans etterfølger på plassen var Hans Christiansen" He was followed by Hans Christiansen born 1848 on Runsevoll under Hørte married to Anne Markusdatter Skustad born 1844.
Children; Gine, Karoline, Martin, Anna-Lovise.
The next information is about another family.
Runterud under vestre Solberg and Martin Christiansen bottom page.
...lease holder her in 1900 was Martin Christiansen likley born 1852 on Runsevoll under Hørte married to Ingeborg Nilsdatter Solberg eie born ab. 1846 in Lier.'
Children; Karl, Karoline, Nils Kristian, Andreas, Inga, Hans, Ingvald (to Pålsrud under Horn). This family is first mentioned on Runterud eie in 1873. Martin bought Runterud in 1905, deed (property) signed in 1905)
Pålsrud under Horn, Ingvald Martinsen, see about 3/4 down, Pålsrud and next "Brukere"
....4) Ingvald Martinsen Runterud under Solberg b. 1889, d. 1960, married Elise Thorgersen born 1892 on Gunnerud-eie. d. 1972.
Children; Martin, Erling (to Skustad and Røyne), Harald (leased a farm on Skustad), Ingvald (lives in Sylling), Einar (moved to Hønefoss town, Buskerud), Ragnhild (marreid to Arne Sørum, Oddevald), Elida (married to Hans Røine, Oddevald in Lier), Martinius (to Drolsum, Modum municipality), Arne (to Vikersund, a sub parish in Modum municipality), Trygve (to Tranby, Lier), Kåre (lives in Lier), Dagmar (married to Georg Nilsen , Haslum in Bærum municipality), Mary (married to Erling Muggerud, Oddevald).
Ingvald sold Pålsrud in 1955 to his son Martin Martinsen b. 1911 married to Jenny Myrbråten Holmen b. 1910.
Children; Gerd (married to Gunnar Solberg, Oslo), Solveig (married to Kåre Åsen, Meren, Lier), Håkon, Astrid (married to Ragnar Torgersen, Engersand), Kåre, Ingvar, Helge
Kåre |
Edited by - Kåarto on 20/04/2009 13:43:22 |
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Gayle Bright
Starting member
New Zealand
9 Posts |
Posted - 20/04/2009 : 03:51:22
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Kare,
Many, many thanks once again for all the information on where the family went. I am sure there must be loads of descendants of Christian Hansens throughout Norway. I hope some of them find this forum.
Kind Regards and Grateful Thanks |
Gayle |
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Kåarto
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
5861 Posts |
Posted - 20/04/2009 : 13:37:34
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You are welcome Gayle.
You are right, it must be hundreds of descendants after Chrisitian Hansen living in Norway, most of them in Lier and surrounding municipalities. I brought up as many names as possible in case someone will find this forum.
Perhaps "Lier Historelag" Lier Historian association has some information to share with you, click on "kontakt oss" left side and send an inquiry to them, they might be interested to hear about what happend to the emigrants.
I think it was the right Andreas Kristensen going for Bay City Colleen found, no wonder he was "vanished".
He was married "g" and went alone.
Could the reason for that be that the journey to Queensland Australia was cancelled by the shipping company?
Birte had family in New Zealand from the information Colleen brought up, so she didn´t travel by random.
Kåre |
Edited by - Kåarto on 20/04/2009 23:18:00 |
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Gayle Bright
Starting member
New Zealand
9 Posts |
Posted - 20/04/2009 : 21:40:08
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Kare,
In the Emigration record that Colleen found, Andreas left for Michigan only a month after Kristian was born. I assume from this that he went off to "find his fortune", because they had already planned on going to Queensland. He may have been told that the US would be a better place for them. As you said earlier, letters may have gone missing which is why she didn't join him or they separated and went their own ways. We do know that Johan nominated her for the Vogel Scheme and I now think that she said "to husband" on the paperwork because with 5 children she may not have otherwise qualified as an immigrant. |
Gayle |
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Kåarto
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
5861 Posts |
Posted - 20/04/2009 : 23:14:39
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Gayle, after been working with Andreas and his family for almost 9 months I have been wondering what happened to him since he didn´t meet their ship and was never found.
I have seen many widows with children who emigrated to USA, but beeing a widow and think perhaps you could be a widow isn´t the same, times were differant .
This is only a guess from me, there could be reasons for him to travel to USA who never will be found , like to earn money, even the final dest was familymembers and friends who emigrated to New Zealand in 1875.
I think perhaps Andreas might have died in USA between 1881-87.
Berte kept her promise, going that fare with 5 children in 1887 require great courage.
Kåre
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Edited by - Kåarto on 20/04/2009 23:24:11 |
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Colleen Pallesen
Starting member
New Zealand
7 Posts |
Posted - 25/04/2009 : 04:38:57
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| If Berthe and Andeas lived at Kyllerud where would the children have gone to school? We saw Sylling school when we were in Sylling but there was no-one there. We would have liked to go to the library there. My grandmother told me that her mother (Anette) used to ski (or skate) to school. |
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