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Charles Hansen
Starting member
USA
26 Posts |
 Posted - 07/06/2011 : 22:15:26
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I’m trying to locate Norway-sourced information on my grandfather, who came to America in 1910. There is some history associated with the two names for the same town, located on the island of Svinholmen, in the far northwest.
Although I’ve found Norwegian-based info that he is from this town, I’m trying to verify that he was born there, or in the immediate region. I have no info on his parents, although this may exist locally.
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jwiborg
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
4961 Posts |
Posted - 07/06/2011 : 22:57:48
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Confirmation record #11, June 17th, 1906.
Oskar Johan Valdemar Hansen is born 09 MAR 1892
Parents: journeyman baker Herman Hansen & Josefine Maximiliane Johannesen, Klo farm.
Source: Nordland county, Langenes in Øksnes, Parish register copy nr. 894C04 (1905-1922), Confirmation records 1906, page 56.
A fosterson in Census 1900
Christening record #7, July 31st, 1892.
Jan Peter |
Edited by - jwiborg on 07/06/2011 23:13:08 |
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eibache
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
6495 Posts |
Posted - 07/06/2011 : 23:14:28
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His baptismal record is #7, he was baptized Oskar Johan Valdemar and he was born out of wedlock.
His mother was Josefine Maximiliane Johannesdatter and the father was baker Herman Hansen from Kabelvåg.
His father was married and lived with his parents in 1900.
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Einar |
Edited by - eibache on 07/06/2011 23:38:19 |
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jwiborg
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
4961 Posts |
Posted - 07/06/2011 : 23:28:11
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A royal name.... Joséphine Maximiliane Eugénie Napoleone (1807-1876) was King Oscar I' wife, and queen of Sweden/Norway from 1844 to 1859.
Jan Peter
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jwiborg
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
4961 Posts |
Posted - 08/06/2011 : 00:32:03
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Hi,
I found a picture of your Oscar in the farm history book "Gård og slekt i Øksnes", Volume 4.
He is listed under farm no 75, Klo.
Oskar is listed together with Fredrik Joakim Lund and his wife Helmina Maria Kristina Mikkelsdatter.
The book say that they didn't have any own children, and that they had a fosterson Oskar Johan Waldemar Hanssen b.1892, who as an adult emigrated to the US and became a famous sculptor. It doesn't mention his parents, only that he was born out of wedlock in "Nyksund" in 1892.
The picture shows him as an American soldier in the artillery. I guess it could be from his early 20s, ie around WWI.
Jan Peter |
Edited by - jwiborg on 08/06/2011 00:37:40 |
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Charles Hansen
Starting member
USA
26 Posts |
Posted - 08/06/2011 : 00:47:39
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Thanks to both of you for the info. Sometime between 1920-1930, based on the US census, he changed the spelling of his first name to Oskar, although from your documents it looks like it was recorded as Oscar when he entered the U.S. and he was just going back to his "roots".
Perhaps around this time he started giving his "full" name as:
"Oskar III., J.W.F. Hansen", and at some point began claiming his parents as Oskar II and Josephine Maximiliana, which is physically impossible if referring to the queen of Oscar I.
However, the "born out of wedlock" is interesting. My father quotes other possible hints to a royal background, but this makes me wonder if there is any faint possibility that perhaps he was a product of Oscar II and this Josefine Maximiliane Johannes, and the baker was persuaded to get involved? Oskar was apparently always reluctant to talk of his Norwegian background to his family and others; although just the illegitimacy issue could have caused some of this, it seems unlikely to have stopped all discussion of Norway. He once stated that he was "banned" from Norway for 65 years - which seems like a very odd term (why not life?)
I've always been very skeptical of all this, but learning the name of his mother (with no suggestion that it was the former queen), has caused me to wonder. Oskar had a very large ego, and was known for inventing/exaggerating stories, which I had always taken this to be.
One other thing - he became a well-known sculptor (Hoover Dam, etc.) and my father says he created a piece that was given to a member of the royal family and is in their collection, perhaps named Excelsior. I'm actually studying sculpture myself in Boston - at age 64.
Charles |
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jwiborg
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
4961 Posts |
Posted - 08/06/2011 : 00:48:24
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From the Hoover dam... I guess you've seen this before... 
Source: link
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jwiborg
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
4961 Posts |
Posted - 08/06/2011 : 00:57:03
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I don't think he ever claimed to be of royal family....?
His parents are listed as Herman Hansen & Josefine Maximiliane Johannesdtr
The mother though (Josefine Maximiliane born about 1867) was most likely named after the former Queen of Sweden/Norway.
Although it is commonly known that both King Oscar I and King Oscar II have numerous descendants after their Royal trips around the country...
Jan Peter |
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Charles Hansen
Starting member
USA
26 Posts |
Posted - 08/06/2011 : 01:12:55
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Jan -
Yes, I know those photos. At the time they were installed, the bronzes (30' tall) were described as the largest in America, and I don't know if that has changed. Many people like them (blogs, etc.) and I have seen questions if they were available in miniature.
As I said, I took the "royal heritage" as part of his self-mythology. The main reason I wanted to get information from Norway is that virtually every reference in America is the one that he wanted people to believe, propably directly quoted from his self-published book "Beyond the Cherubim".
This is a sample of what you find on the web, at least in the U.S.: "Oskar Hansen was born in 1892 to Oskar II and Josephine Maximiliana in what was then the dual Kingdom of Norway and Sweden. Before coming to America, he served as a merchant seaman, then joined the French Foreign Legion in North Africa where he attained the rank of General of Brigade. In the US he served in the US Army and rose from Private to Major. Upon leaving the Army, he built a home and sculpture studio near Charlottesville, Virginia."
Although he was in the US Army 1911-1914, I don't think anyone can go from private to major in three years, and I think the FFL story is pure invention.
I think he may have been a seaman ~1907-1910, and I believe he claimed he "jumped off ship" when he came here.
Charles |
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jwiborg
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
4961 Posts |
Posted - 08/06/2011 : 01:16:08
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What you say about King Oscar II being his father, and that the mother was Josefine Maximiliane Johannesdtr is interesting....
I have a similar story from my hometown, where there are rumours that King Oscar II is the father of a girl born in the 1880's. The mother could possibly have worked as a servant at the hotel where he stayed at.
Oscar II (1829-1907), King of Sweden (1872–1907) and Norway (1872–1905).
King Oscar II performed numerous trips around Norway. He was crowned in Trondheim in 1872, and travelled directly to Northern Norway after that. Residing in Stockholm, Sweden, he travelled to Norway every year while he was King. Perhaps you should look for a trip to Øksnes in June 1891...? It is very likely that he visited Bodø town if he was in the area, being the biggest town in Nordland county.
Jan Peter |
Edited by - jwiborg on 08/06/2011 01:45:12 |
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Charles Hansen
Starting member
USA
26 Posts |
Posted - 08/06/2011 : 01:28:23
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Jan -
Why aren't you sleeping? A "night owl" like me?
I have two additional "teasers".
This is from a review of Beyond the Cherubim on the site of book (and everything else now) seller Amazon:
"I had the uncanny coincidence of meeting him when I went with my older brother to his house to return a gift he'd sent to our mother. I was 14 and my brother 17. While we were there a limousine
arrived with the woman who claimed to be the surviving Grand Dutchess Anastasia! The fact that Oskar knew her to be the real person and that they had known each other for some time was strong proof this was the real Grand Dutchess! "
Although, I wonder how this fellow knows of and recognizes "the surviving Grand Dutchess Anastasia".
Also, this from my father, from a recording of a phone conversation with Oskar:
"He told the story of being in the Naval Museum when the guard told him "You have a visitor." Oskar turned and saw Count Bernadotte who said to him, "Your Majesty", as he bowed. Oskar replied, "That is not necessary.", Cound Bernatotte then said, "You're entitled."
I don't know what to believe at this point, although my father thinks there are possibilities of something there.
Charles
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jwiborg
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
4961 Posts |
Posted - 08/06/2011 : 01:39:12
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This was interesting, but I will head for the bed now...
Are you from a direct father-son link from Oscar? If so, there might be possible to take a DNA test to prove any relationship. A Y-DNA test requires a direct male link up to the ancestor. There have been several discussions in Norwegian Forums about how to prove a link to Oscar II...
But I don't think you can claim the Royal Swedish Crown though... Crown Princess Victoria are the first in line...
But maybe you can inherit a small castle up in the mountans?
Crown Princess Victoria of Sweden
Jan Peter |
Edited by - jwiborg on 08/06/2011 01:40:23 |
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Charles Hansen
Starting member
USA
26 Posts |
Posted - 08/06/2011 : 06:39:03
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eibache -
I'm not sure of the meaning of this:
"His father was married and lived with his parents in 1900."
I looked at the linked document, but I don't read Norwegian, although am thinking that perhaps I should learn it and visit there in the next year or two. I have heard that bonfires are lit on the tops of mountains on the summer solstice.
I'm guessing this means that Herman Hansen had married someone other than Josefine Maximiliane Johannesdatter by the census that year, and Herman and his wife were living on his parent's farm?
I'm curious - I suspect that the "datter" means daughter, but of Johannes, or Johannesen as Jan mentioned? Perhaps her father is known as Johannesen, as he is the son (sen) of Johannes, but the "en" gets replaced for a female offspring?
Jan - You give the information for the foster parents in 1900, by which time Herman was married, and I gather Josefine Maximiliane gave her son up because she couldn't afford to keep him (where is the father when he is needed?) - or perhaps to be more able to attract a husband for herself.
I just had an interesting thought. I don't know the time relationship to his adding the "III" to Oskar, but at some point he also added the third middle initial "F.", although I don't know what it represents. I'm wondering if perhaps this was in honor of his foster father Fredrik? Maybe it should have been F3!
On the DNA - based on the travel style of Oscar II that you mention, I should think that Sweden ran out of small castles in the mountains decades ago! But yes, my father is Oskar's first son.
Charles
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eibache
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
6495 Posts |
Posted - 08/06/2011 : 07:47:01
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quote:
I'm not sure of the meaning of this:
"His father was married and lived with his parents in 1900."
- sorry for bad description.
The 1900 census shows that Herman Hansen ran a bakery, was born 1865 (approx.), was then married to Margrethe Hansen and they had two children, Fjore Hansen and Hildur Hansen. The family is recorded at the same place as Herman Hansens parents Jacob Hansen and Berntine Hansen.
I read Josefine Maximilianes last name as Johannesdatter - based on the confirmation record it should have been Johannesen. (Her father is not yet documented - whether she should be Johannesen or Johannesdatter or xx-datter cannot be confirmed.)
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Einar |
Edited by - eibache on 08/06/2011 07:54:18 |
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eibache
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
6495 Posts |
Posted - 08/06/2011 : 08:19:04
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quote:
Oskar is listed together with Fredrik Joakim Lund and his wife Helmina Maria Kristina Mikkelsdatter.
- in the 1900 census it says Fredrik Lund and Helmine Matiasdatter.
Fredrik Lund is Fredrik J Johansen in the 1865 census = Frederik Joachim, see #10, his parents Johan Scheldrup Lund and Hanna Fredrike Hansdatter, Sommerø.
Helmine Matiasdatter is the girl born out of wedlock, see #55 - her father was Mathias Johannesen, Klo and the mother Maren Marie Birgithe Nilsdatter, Klo.
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Einar |
Edited by - eibache on 08/06/2011 08:25:18 |
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Charles Hansen
Starting member
USA
26 Posts |
Posted - 08/06/2011 : 08:20:52
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eibache - No, it wasn't bad. I just wanted to be sure I understood and that Herman hadn't married Josefine Maximiliane, which seemed unlikely as Oscar was later a foster child.
Jan Peter - I just realized that Oscar II would have been 62 in 1891, so I'm going back to being skeptical. Not that it's impossible, but most men have much less libido by then . . .
I've just been reading the history of Queen Sophia - what a strong, suffering woman.
I was also thinking more about Oskar adding "F." to his name, and checked on Oscar II again - he was also a Fredric.
Now I'm wondering why my grandfather made this name change (III + F.) - maybe a mid-life crisis? Illusions of grandeur? Was there some event in his life that triggered it?
As far as the Swedish castle, I find in another forum:
"A child born out of wedlock had no legal right to inherit the father or the fathers family before 1917 if the father did not "Lyse i kull og kjønn" claimed paternity, law by 1854."
One thing that still puzzles me is where did Oskar get his creative genes? For a while I was wondering about Prince Eugén - he was a young man in 1891 . . . .
Now I have to finally go to bed.
Charles
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OSKAR J.W. HANSEN – born 1892 in Langenes/Oksnes
