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NancyB
Medium member
USA
104 Posts |
 Posted - 04/09/2013 : 05:56:39
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Telegrams sent upon death of Hazel Miller, daughter of Charles and Anna Miller and granddaughter of Betsy Anderson.
From Arthur Johnson, Great Falls, MT to Chas. Miller, Alabaster, MI:
Accept my sorrow and sympathy in your sad bereavement. Arthur E. Johnson
The surname may be of note. I'm seeing 5 Arthur Johnsons in Great Falls on the 1910 census.
From Betsy Anderson, Great Falls, MT to Charles Miller, Alabaster, MI:
Will leave as soon as I get money.
There is a subsequent telegram from son Alex who had gone to Great Falls intending to travel with his mother, but she had already left.
Those are the only ones that are family-related. Not sure of any help, but thought I would post. |
NancyB |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
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NancyB
Medium member
USA
104 Posts |
Posted - 04/09/2013 : 06:25:46
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Additional note regarding 1920 Census in Great Falls, MT.
Living at 809 5th Ave. South--the address Betsy used in 1912 and again in 1920--are Charles & Margaret Arnold with their daughter Alice (16). Alice's age is written over, but based on her age of 6 in the 1910 census and 26 in 1930, she would have been 16 in 1920. This does not reconcile with Betsy's account of living with a couple with a two-year-old child. |
NancyB |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
Posted - 04/09/2013 : 07:31:37
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These notes and cards that Betsy wrote--were they in English or Norwegian?
An Arthur E. Johnson b. 4 Nov 1891 Great Falls registered for WWI draft on 31 May 1917. His address was 1826 7 Ave N in Great Falls. |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
Posted - 04/09/2013 : 07:59:25
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I'm not sure I've seen this posted. Here is a link to the transcription of the 1895 Iowa State census. Her name as Bessie A, age 43 and birthplace Sweden:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/VTSN-P6X
Name: Bessie A Andersen
Event Type: Census
Event Date: 1895
Event Place: Boone, Iowa, United States
Gender: Female
Birth Year (Estimated): 1852
Family Number: 69
Line Number: 17
Page: 369
GS Film number: 1020332
Digital Folder Number: 004234902
Image Number: 00342
Household Gender Age Birthplace
Bessie A Andersen F 43
John A Andersen M 19
Andrew G Andersen M 18
Annie M Andersen F 16
Ida C Andersen F 14
Frank O Andersen M 13
Emm O Andersen F 11
Clarence E Andersen M 9
Alexander A Andersen M 7
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Edited by - jkmarler on 04/09/2013 08:17:15 |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
Posted - 04/09/2013 : 08:10:38
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quote:
Originally posted by NancyB
I also have the original "Dop-Attest" for daughter Anna Mathilda. The father is listed as Alek. Andersons and the mother as Bettys. Date of baptism (?): 22 May 1878
"Dop" makes me think Swedish rather than Norwegian--I could be wrong. What's the name of the church or the pastor who signed it? |
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Kåarto
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
5861 Posts |
Posted - 04/09/2013 : 15:02:15
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quote:
Originally posted by NancyB
Transcription of Death Certificate from State of Iowa
This may be the only "official" place I've seen the middle name of Bell.
Place of Death
County: Pocahontas County; State: Iowa
Township: Swan Lake; City: Laurens
Length of residence in city where death occurred: blank
Full Name
Betsy Bell Anderson
Date of Death: 12-14, 1934
Personal and Statistical Information
Sex: female
Color or Race: white
Marital status: widow
Husband of Alexander Anderson
Date of Birth: February 28 (typed) 1850 (handwritten)
Age: 84 years, 9 months, 13 days
Housewife
Birthplace: Bergen Norway
Father: (?) Johnson (or Joen, Jon, John, Johan, Johanes, Johannes ??) ; Birthplace: Norway
Mother’s maiden name: Don’t know; Birthplace: Norway
Informant: Mrs. Chas. Anderson, Laurens, Ia.
Burial: Laurens, Ia. 12-18, 1934
A contributory cause of death was old age. Handwritten to the right of that (actually in the column called Date of Onset) is 94a encircled.
Impressing how much info you have. If we only had the name of her father or mother, we might have solved the problem.
You are right Jackie, Dop is Swedish, Døp (Bapt.) in Norwegian (dop means drugs in Norwegian)
Kåre |
Edited by - Kåarto on 05/09/2013 11:03:36 |
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JaneC
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3020 Posts |
Posted - 04/09/2013 : 15:51:49
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Wow - this is one of the most impressive presentations of research I've seen, Nancy. Some new facts have seemed to surface - but also impressive is your identification and clarification of the sources. This helps the team to evaluate the varying credibility of each presumed fact. (For example, the "R" as a middle initial on the marriage license comes from a transcription only. So we can guess "R" could be a hard-to-read "B" or "K" or "A" ) Thank you so much for all this!
Nancy's careful transcription of the obit says Betsy's funeral was held at the Swedish Lutheran Church, but she had only recently returned to the Laurens area, and perhaps daughter Ida Christine in Laurens attended a Swedish Lutheran Church, since she had married a Swedish fellow. The choice of church for the funeral could be due to Ida's church affiliation. Nancy, did you write Dop, the Swedish, on purpose, or only due to not having the right letter for Døp? Or...do you know Betsy's church affiliation? I wonder if a Swedish Lutheran Church (if that's her affiliation) in one of the areas where she lived might have further information about her origins. A long shot.
It seems Ida was the informant on Betsy's death certificate. Honestly I have to believe she knew her grandmother's first name (maybe not her "surname") and I am guessing the person writing down Ida's answers on the death form did not pause to note what Ida knew. Just a guess, and it doesn't help to know one way or the other - I'm just sayin'. IF it is true Ida did not know Betsy's mother's name - IF - then it might - might- indicate Betsy had a mother who died when Betsy was quite young and thus is not much mentioned in daily life.
Arthur E. Johnson is rather tantalizing, but as he lives in Great Falls, it could be he is unrelated, someone who became a friend to Betsy and/or Anna's family during their time there.
Okay, so obviously I have nothing useful to add but will try later today. Wanted to say bravo to Nancy! :D |
Edited by - JaneC on 04/09/2013 15:54:40 |
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NancyB
Medium member
USA
104 Posts |
Posted - 04/09/2013 : 15:59:58
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quote:
Originally posted by jkmarler
I'm not sure I've seen this posted. Here is a link to the transcription of the 1895 Iowa State census. Her name as Bessie A, age 43 and birthplace Sweden:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/VTSN-P6X
Name: Bessie A Andersen
Event Type: Census
Event Date: 1895
Event Place: Boone, Iowa, United States
Gender: Female
Birth Year (Estimated): 1852
Family Number: 69
Line Number: 17
Page: 369
GS Film number: 1020332
Digital Folder Number: 004234902
Image Number: 00342
Household Gender Age Birthplace
Bessie A Andersen F 43
John A Andersen M 19
Andrew G Andersen M 18
Annie M Andersen F 16
Ida C Andersen F 14
Frank O Andersen M 13
Emm O Andersen F 11
Clarence E Andersen M 9
Alexander A Andersen M 7
This is a new find, missed because of spelling the last name with an 'e.' Thank you! It's certainly interesting that it says born in Sweden. Census error? I also notice her neighbor is J.M. Johnson, age 73--certainly old enough to be her father. |
NancyB |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
Posted - 04/09/2013 : 16:12:30
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One thing about birthdate calculation from death date. When I put the years 84, months 9, days 13 beginning from the death date of 14 Dec 1934 the calculator in my program gets a "birthdate" of 1 Mar 1850.
The Dop-attest for the eldest daughter is most interesting. Likely to have a pastor's name or church which issued--likely to be the church attended during her marriage. I hate to prescribe but getting any possible marriage from the church (provided Alexander and Betsy married in a church) would be helpful. I don't how Swedish Lutheran pastors treated "furriners" in their pastoral records, but more information than usual might have been sought because of her non Swedish but Norwegian status. [ I laugh because in the great book on Norwegian Lutheran churches Norske Lutherske Menigheter i Amerika the "souls" in each church are counted with the special notation of how many German and how many Swede. It's not clear that other nationalities are counted among the "souls" !]
Another thing is about the given names of the children, if they were following the "customary" practice, the eldest John may have been named for Betsy's father, the next son named for Alexander's father Andrew / Anders; Anna Mathilda and Christine Ida named for either of the grandmothers. People were not religious about this practice by the 1870s and in America so it may be coincidental but at least for the boys it seems to have a ring of truth.
For a last ditch effort finding the names of the godparents for the baptism of each of her children might bear some fruit. Typically the godparents are a mix of relatives, friends and neighbors, a name with some legs might turn up. |
Edited by - jkmarler on 04/09/2013 16:29:27 |
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JaneC
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3020 Posts |
Posted - 04/09/2013 : 16:18:31
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Also in 1885 Betsy is noted as born in Sweden (see the transcription posted earlier).
Yes, a census error. Alex was born in Sweden and we can guess the harried census taker hurriedly assumed the husband and wife "match" as would be typical in this era.
Betsy's obituary and death record both state she was born in Norway. Information in these sources is provided by a family member on a significant occasion, so the source is more credible.
I like the neighbor J. M. Johnson. Good find.
An original copy of Betsy's marriage certificate might provide her parents' names, although not necessarily.
I didn't note in the records whether or not Betsy was a naturalized citizen. Since she lived on her own for 4-6 years she could have applied as a single woman. (Married women in this era were automatically made citizens if their husbands won citizenship.)
[Back in an edit. Just read jkmarler remark re marriage certificate. Yes maybe it's a better chance to have more information on Betsy's certificate than sometimes was includedl] |
Edited by - JaneC on 04/09/2013 16:21:02 |
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JaneC
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3020 Posts |
Posted - 04/09/2013 : 16:37:00
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quote:
Originally posted by jkmarler
Finding the names of the godparents for the baptism of each of her children might bear some fruit. Typically the godparents are a mix of relatives, friends and neighbors, a name with some legs might turn up.
Yes. Okay, there's another opportunity for research in the USA to help the search in Norway. One turns to this bothersome type of additional research when the easy route hits a dead end (bothersome because original documents usually have to be specially requested and sometimes a fee is required). Sorry Nancy. |
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NancyB
Medium member
USA
104 Posts |
Posted - 04/09/2013 : 16:57:05
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[/quote]
"Dop" makes me think Swedish rather than Norwegian--I could be wrong. What's the name of the church or the pastor who signed it?
[/quote]
It is just Dop, though further down on the form it says Dopt (with 2 dots over the o) i Guds. That's right above the part where Anna Mathilda is named. Alexander, Bety's husband, was Swedish.I was going to attach a copy, but I haven't figured out how to do that yet.
To answer another question, the postcard and letter to/from Great Falls are in English. |
NancyB |
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JaneC
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3020 Posts |
Posted - 04/09/2013 : 17:02:39
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| " i Guds" - in God's name, I think |
Edited by - JaneC on 04/09/2013 17:03:12 |
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NancyB
Medium member
USA
104 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2013 : 00:21:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Kåarto
[quote]Originally posted by NancyB
Transcription of Death Certificate from State of Iowa
This may be the only "official" place I've seen the middle name of Bell.
Place of Death
County: Pocahontas County; State: Iowa
Township: Swan Lake; City: Laurens
Length of residence in city where death occurred: blank
Full Name
Betsy Bell Anderson
Date of Death: 12-14, 1934
Personal and Statistical Information
Sex: female
Color or Race: white
Marital status: widow
Husband of Alexander Anderson
Date of Birth: February 28 (typed) 1850 (handwritten)
Age: 84 years, 9 months, 13 days
Housewife
Birthplace: Bergen Norway
Father: (?) Johnson (or Joen, Jon, John, Johan, Johanes, Johannes ??) ; Birthplace: Norway
Mother’s maiden name: Don’t know; Birthplace: Norway
Informant: Mrs. Chas. Anderson, Laurens, Ia.
Burial: Laurens, Ia. 12-18, 1934
A contributory cause of death was old age. Handwritten to the right of that (actually in the column called Date of Onset) is 94a encircled.
To be clear on this, for Father's Name on the death certificate is typed: (?) JOhnson
IOW, I did not add the (?).
For Mother's Maiden Name is typed: Don't Know |
NancyB |
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Betsy Johnson of Bergen
