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MichaelBaird
Starting member
USA
22 Posts |
 Posted - 03/01/2014 : 20:36:42
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Hi,
I'm on this forum posting because I was so impressed with help and answers given to "Carrie B" about his ancestor who came to Chicago (I ran into that in a search on the name Tesli). I've been struggling with an issue and looking for help. I've been doing Norwegian research for quite a while. My great-great Grandmother (Margarethe Teslie) came to America in 1892.
The issue is around the parents of her father Oluf Iversen Teslie.
The genealogy as I have it starting with my great-great grandmother:
Margarethe Christine Teslie --> Oluf Iversen Teslie --> Iver Jacobsen Teslie --> Jakob Iversen Kuråsen and so forth
Here is the information I have:
Oluf Iversen Teslie Christening: 12 April 1846
Transcribed record: http://digitalarkivet.arkivverket.no/en-gb/kb/dp/person/pd00000000965202
Note the correction on this transcribed record – Father’s name transcribed incorrectly
Digitized record(no 36): http://tinyurl.com/l85ghmr
Father: Iver Jacobsen Teslie
Mother: Margrethe Hansd
Residence: Hlade
Seems straight forward but this is the issue - It seems from everything else I can find that his mother isn't Margrethe Hansd but rather is Margrethe Knudsd. Here is what else I have:
1865 Census:
http://digitalarkivet.arkivverket.no/en-gb/ft/person/pf01038310011804
12 - Iver Teslie born in Strinden
13 - wife: Margrethe Teslie born in Kvikne
15 - Son: Oluf Teslie born in Strinden
14 – Son: Adolf Martin Teslie born in Strinden
Brothers birth records:
Older brother Johan Conrad:
Birth transcribed: http://digitalarkivet.arkivverket.no/en-gb/kb/dp/person/pd00000001047731 (digitized #85: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=16287&uid=ny&idx_side=-50)
Father: Iver Jacobsen Teslie
Mother: Anne Margrethe Knudsd
Residence: Hlade (hard to make out but I think that is correct)
Younger brother Adolf Martin’s records:
http://digitalarkivet.arkivverket.no/en-gb/kb/dp/person/pd00000001938749
digitized: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?urnread_imagesize=gigant&info=ingen&hode=nei&show=19&uid=231106&js=j
Father: Iver Jacobsen Teslie
Mother: Margrethe Knudsdtr
Residence: Reitgjerdet
Iver Jacobsen Teslie Marriage:
Digitized (13): http://tinyurl.com/lwszzp6
Iver Jacobsen Teslie born Strinda age 36 father Jacob Ivers. Jacobslie
Margrethe Knudsd Bakke born Kvikne age 32 father Knud
Witnesses Ole Olsen Teslie, Jacob I. Teslie
Case for Oluf’s mother to be Margrethe Knudsdatter:
1. 1865 Census Margrethe is the same person as Margrethe Knudsd in 1839 marriage
- Census Age of 57 corresponds with marriage age of 32
- Place of birth is same on both records (Kvikne)
- No mention of 2nd marriage etc. in Census
2. 1865 census states that both Oluf and Adolf Martin are sons to Iver and Margrethe
3. Older brother Johan Conrad birth record states father is Iver Jacobsen Teslie and mother is Margrethe Knudsd
4. Younger brother Adolf Martin in 1865 census with same parents birth record states that mother is Margrethe Knudsdtr
So my questions are:
1. Is Oluf of a completely different set of parents with father of same name (Iver Jacobsen Teslie) and mother of same first name (Margrethe) but different last name (Hansd.)?
2. But how can that be when Oluf and Adolf have the same parents in the 1865 Census?
3. I can’t find a marriage of an Iver Jacobsen Teslie in the correct time frame to a Margrethe Hansdtr. Can I not just find it?
4. Is there any reason to believe Iver Jacobsen was married twice? None that I can find. Also seems unlikely since Oluf is bracketed by Johan Conrad in 1839 and Adolf Martin in 1852 who have the same mother (Margrethe Knudsd.) and given the arguments for Margrethe in the 1865 Census being the same Margrethe in the 1839 Marriage record.
5. So then is the birth record wrong and Oluf’s mother is Margrethe Knudsdatter and not Margrethe Hansdatter?
If you have followed this post to this point you are incredibly patient and I thank you. If you have any insights or helps I will doubly thank you!
Michael
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Michael Baird |
Edited by - MichaelBaird on 04/01/2014 01:36:59 |
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eibache
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
6495 Posts |
Posted - 03/01/2014 : 23:09:48
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quote:
5. So then is the birth record wrong and Oluf’s mother is Margrethe Knudsdatter and not Margrethe Hansdatter?
- a reasonable guess since also Johan Adolfs mother was Knudsdatter - if it was not for the fact that the confirmation record names Olufs mother Margrethe Hansdatter, #25.
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Einar |
Edited by - eibache on 04/01/2014 09:07:33 |
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MichaelBaird
Starting member
USA
22 Posts |
Posted - 03/01/2014 : 23:30:11
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Thanks Einer! Even though it seems to blow things up for me  Yet I want to get things straight!
I didn't have the confirmation record. That makes both the birth and confirmation that are consistent that Oluf's parents are Iver Jacobsen Tesli and Margrethe Hansdatter.
I'm clearly missing something somewhere but I can't figure out what...
The 1865 census unfortunately lists the mother as Margrethe Tesli so that doesn't help other than to indicate that Adolf Martin has the same parents.
I went and found the confirmation record for Oluf's younger brother Adolf Martin. It was no help as the mother is simply listed as Margrethe while father was Iver Jakobsen Teslie
#15
Posting help: I can figure out how to make the text #15 above a hyperlink but I can't figure out how add the actual link information to it so I have the link below
http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?urnread_imagesize=full&info=ingen&hode=nei&show=181&uid=310345&js=j
So it seems there is either two Iver Jacobsen Tesli's or one that married two different Margrethe's.
Any thoughts on where to go from here?
--Michael
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Michael Baird |
Edited by - MichaelBaird on 04/01/2014 00:21:12 |
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peder
Advanced member
USA
835 Posts |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
Posted - 04/01/2014 : 11:49:32
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Is there more than one Iver Jakobsen Teslie?
Well there are more than one Iver Jakobsen in the 1865 census. Your fellow, of course, doesn't appear in the count below since his name in the census is Iver Teslie:
first name starting with "Iv" selecting for spelling & variations of Iver / Ivar
last name including "ja" selecting for spelling & variations of Jacobson
Total in all the fylke
Østfold 1
Akershus 3
Oslo 1
Hedmark 1
Oppland 26
Buskerud 1
Vestfold 2
Telemark 2
Aust-Agder 0
Vest-Agder 0
Rogaland 10
Hordaland 20
Sogn og Fjordane 12
Møre og Romsdal 24
Sør-Trøndelag 7
Nord-Trøndelag 15
Nordland 9
Troms 4
Finnmark 0
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Totalt 138
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Total in Sør Trøndelag per parish
1601 Throndhjem 2
1617 Hitteren 1
1625 Stadsbygd 1
1653 Melhus 1
1655 Bynes 1
1660 Strinden 1
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Totalt 7
The one in Strinden is a 7 year old boy.
Selecting further for any Iv & ja combination born in a place name containing "Strin" finds only one the same 7 year old boy.
Granted there could have been another Iver Jakobsen & Margarethe combination around in circa 1846 not living in 1865, but by looking at the marriage records of Strinden you could find those most likely to be procreating.
At the top of the page in the parish registers (the actual images) there is a blue bar that has 3 boxes where you can enlarge the image, place the documentary evidence (over or below the image or not see it) and if you want the archives logo to appear on the page. In the documentary evidence there is a description of the book & page and 2 addresses the permanent page link / permanent sidelenke is what you want to copy for the address to take you there. I don't know how to do hyperlink myself but find that having the actual physical documentation is exceedingly important also, so I cut & paste. There is a testing forum here at norwayheritage which might help you try things out. |
Edited by - jkmarler on 04/01/2014 11:58:52 |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9301 Posts |
Posted - 04/01/2014 : 18:47:25
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Michael, are you aware that there is a Family Tree on Ancestry.com that appears to contain your person of interest. The people listed are.
Oluf Iversen Teslie
Birth 1847 in Strinda, Sør-Trøndelag
Death
wife is listed as
Margrete Knutsdtr. Halvorsgård
Birth 1808 in Halvorsgården, Kvikne, Tynset, Hedmark
There are three children listed, Halvor, Oluf and Adolf Martin all listed as Iverson Teslie.
The owner of the Family Tree is listed as VBuran and he is listed as the owner of the tree villys slekstre
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JaneC
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3020 Posts |
Posted - 04/01/2014 : 18:59:15
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quote:
Originally posted by MichaelBaird
Hi,
Oluf Iversen Teslie Christening: 12 April 1846
Transcribed record: http://digitalarkivet.arkivverket.no/en-gb/kb/dp/person/pd00000000965202
Note the correction on this transcribed record – Father’s name transcribed incorrectly
Digitized record(no 36): http://tinyurl.com/l85ghmr
Father: Iver Jacobsen Teslie
Mother: Margrethe Hansd
Residence: Hlade
Would someone please take another look at the handwriting. Could the mother be Margrethe Halvorsgård, Hlade? Or....? It doesn't really look like "Hansd" or similar to me. Oluf's confirmation record seems more clearly to be "Hansdtr," though.
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Edited by - JaneC on 04/01/2014 19:07:28 |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9301 Posts |
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eibache
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
6495 Posts |
Posted - 04/01/2014 : 20:10:58
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quote:
Would someone please take another look at the handwriting.
- Olufs mother is clearly Kone Margrethe Hansdatter paa Hlade.
The transcription is wrong, the father is Iver Jacobsen Teslie - not Ole Jacobsen Teslie.
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Einar |
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MichaelBaird
Starting member
USA
22 Posts |
Posted - 04/01/2014 : 20:12:37
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Hi Everyone.
Thanks so much for the replies that from my point of view showed up overnight!
I haven't had time to process all the replies totally yet but wanted to express my appreciation for your time and effort.
It is Saturday morning here and I expect between now and Sunday night I'll be able to put in quite a few hours of research following up on your comments and thoughts as well as searching.
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Michael Baird |
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MichaelBaird
Starting member
USA
22 Posts |
Posted - 04/01/2014 : 20:18:07
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quote:
Originally posted by eibache
quote:
Would someone please take another look at the handwriting.
- Olufs mother is clearly Kone Margrethe Hansdatter paa Hlade.
The transcription is wrong, the father is Iver Jacobsen Teslie - not Ole Jacobsen Teslie.
That Transcription error kept me from finding that record for a long time!
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Michael Baird |
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MichaelBaird
Starting member
USA
22 Posts |
Posted - 04/01/2014 : 20:20:43
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quote:
Originally posted by lyndal40
Proabably the Margretha born in 1808 on the left side of the page.
http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=9230&idx_id=9230&uid=ny&idx_side=-96
The Margrethe in that record is who I have had as Oluf's mother for the past 6 months or so based on all the other evidence I'v cited before. The 'Margarthe Hansdatter" on his birth record however has been bugging me for a while and led to my posting here in my look for help. |
Michael Baird |
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JaneC
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3020 Posts |
Posted - 04/01/2014 : 20:23:27
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| Thanks Einar. |
Edited by - JaneC on 04/01/2014 20:23:49 |
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MichaelBaird
Starting member
USA
22 Posts |
Posted - 04/01/2014 : 21:07:25
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quote:
Originally posted by lyndal40
Michael, are you aware that there is a Family Tree on Ancestry.com that appears to contain your person of interest. The people listed are.
Oluf Iversen Teslie
Birth 1847 in Strinda, Sør-Trøndelag
Death
wife is listed as
Margrete Knutsdtr. Halvorsgård
Birth 1808 in Halvorsgården, Kvikne, Tynset, Hedmark
There are three children listed, Halvor, Oluf and Adolf Martin all listed as Iverson Teslie.
The owner of the Family Tree is listed as VBuran and he is listed as the owner of the tree villys slekstre
I'm not a member of ancestry.com, but rather I'm a member of familysearch.org which is where I'm keeping all my information. Looks like I ought to join and check out the information there.
On familysearch.org Oluf Teslie locator is K657-X5R and he is here: https://familysearch.org/tree/#view=ancestor&person=K657-X5R.
I have quite a bit of information up that line there and even more up Oluf's "wife" (common law marriage) Anne Larsdatter of Stigen farm in Ringebu line.
Up until this past 6 months most of my research over the past 13 years or so has been on Anne Larsdatter of Ringebu side of the family. The Ringbu records have been online since Jan 2001.
I have been the family genealogist for Norway since I speak Swedish and have inherited all of the Norway "stuff" through my mother's and her grandmother before (Anne Larsdatter is my mor-far-mor-mor).
I have had remarkable experiences in my Norway research including a visit to the Ringebu area in 2004. If you are interested you are welcome to download and read this document which I wrote in Jan 2005 about my experiences and visit to Ringebu.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/300276/Family%20History/My%20ancestors%20in%20Ringebu%20-%20public.pdf
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Michael Baird |
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MichaelBaird
Starting member
USA
22 Posts |
Posted - 04/01/2014 : 21:12:43
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quote:
Originally posted by jkmarler
At the top of the page in the parish registers (the actual images) there is a blue bar that has 3 boxes where you can enlarge the image, place the documentary evidence (over or below the image or not see it) and if you want the archives logo to appear on the page. In the documentary evidence there is a description of the book & page and 2 addresses the permanent page link / permanent sidelenke is what you want to copy for the address to take you there. I don't know how to do hyperlink myself but find that having the actual physical documentation is exceedingly important also, so I cut & paste. There is a testing forum here at norwayheritage which might help you try things out.
Thanks for the tips! Especially the one about the two link addresses. I hadn't figured that out before.
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Michael Baird |
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MichaelBaird
Starting member
USA
22 Posts |
Posted - 04/01/2014 : 21:27:32
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quote:
Originally posted by jkmarler
Is there more than one Iver Jakobsen Teslie?
Well there are more than one Iver Jakobsen in the 1865 census. Your fellow, of course, doesn't appear in the count below since his name in the census is Iver Teslie:
first name starting with "Iv" selecting for spelling & variations of Iver / Ivar
last name including "ja" selecting for spelling & variations of Jacobson
Total in all the fylke
Østfold 1
Akershus 3
Oslo 1
Hedmark 1
Oppland 26
Buskerud 1
Vestfold 2
Telemark 2
Aust-Agder 0
Vest-Agder 0
Rogaland 10
Hordaland 20
Sogn og Fjordane 12
Møre og Romsdal 24
Sør-Trøndelag 7
Nord-Trøndelag 15
Nordland 9
Troms 4
Finnmark 0
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Totalt 138
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Total in Sør Trøndelag per parish
1601 Throndhjem 2
1617 Hitteren 1
1625 Stadsbygd 1
1653 Melhus 1
1655 Bynes 1
1660 Strinden 1
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Totalt 7
The one in Strinden is a 7 year old boy.
Selecting further for any Iv & ja combination born in a place name containing "Strin" finds only one the same 7 year old boy.
Granted there could have been another Iver Jakobsen & Margarethe combination around in circa 1846 not living in 1865, but by looking at the marriage records of Strinden you could find those most likely to be procreating.
Thanks for the research. This gets to the heart of the matter. Is there more than one Iver Jacobsen Teslie that meets the criteria for being Oluf Teslie's father?
The other question - is there a Margrethe Hansdatter that is married to Iver Jacobsen Teslie? Either the same Iver Jacobsen Teslie that Margrethe Knudsdatter is married to or another Iver Jacobsen Teslie.
All the gathered evidence adds up to a logical problem (which is what brought me here in the first place for help).
So far the best additional information found (Oluf's confirmation record - thanks again eibache) strengthens the logical problem.
Mike
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Michael Baird |
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Topic |
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Help with Oluf Iversen Teslie
