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THalseth
Starting member
USA
19 Posts |
 Posted - 28/03/2016 : 23:12:53
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Hi,
I am looking into what became of my 3rd great grandfather Ole Olsen Underbakke, who was born in 1809 in Bø, Telemark, Norway, and his daughter Thorbjør Olsdatter Underbakke, who was born in 1866 in Suldal, Rogaland.
Ole and his family left Suldal, Rogaland around 11 April 1872 for America. The last record I found of him and Thorbjør was when the family arrived in Quebec on 1 June 1872. Does anyone know how they were likely to have traveled from Quebec to Iowa?
In the church records for the Stavanger Lutheran Church in Ossian, Iowa, the name Ole Olsen Underbakke appears probably as new members of the church in the year of 1874, if I remember right. It is not clear if Ole Olsen Underbakke was still alive. FYI, he had a son by the same name who was born in 1842 and died in 1885 and is buried at the Stavanger Lutheran Church cemetery.
According to the 1880 U.S. Census, Ole's wife Thorbjør Knutsdatter is listed as a widow living with a son Knute in Dover, Fayette, Iowa. So, Ole and daughter Thorbjør had to have passed away sometime between 1872 and 1880. Neither of them are not listed as being buried at the Stavanger Lutheran Church cemetery. They likely died somewhere between Quebec and Ossian, Iowa.
Thorbjør was only 6 when she got to Quebec. Her parents were much older, 48 and 56, when she was born. I don't know if she was healthy or not.
Does anyone have any suggestion how I can find them - when they died and where they are buried?
Thanks. |
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jwiborg
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
4961 Posts |
Posted - 29/03/2016 : 00:14:06
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The son Ole born 1842 was not with them when the family emigrated in 1872. Did he emigrate later? Only Sjur (14), Knud (11) and Thorbjør (7) is listed with the parents.
In 1868, the son Ole moved from Underbakka, Suldal, Rogaland to Jelsa, Rogaland.
This article; Concerning Emigration?, was posted in the Norwegian "Billed-Magazin" in spring 1869.
It decribes several routes from Quebec to the west, and how to cross Lake Michigan.
The magazine was published in Madison, Wisconsin, and many subscribers send it home to friends and relatives in Norway.
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THalseth
Starting member
USA
19 Posts |
Posted - 29/03/2016 : 02:48:17
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Ole Olsen Underbakke the younger emigrated 2 years earlier. He arrived in Quebec 16 Jun 1870.
My 2nd great grandmother Bergit (age 23) and her brother Halvor (age 17) were with the family when they left Norway in 1872.
Another brother Lars (born in 1845) emigrated a year later.
Thanks for the article.
What was likely to happen if someone died en route from Quebec to say Iowa, either by ship or train? Was the body likely to be removed from the train as soon as it made a stop or disposed into one of the Great Lakes if by ship? Would there be records for such incidents? Just looking at a possible angle as to what became of Ole and/or Thorbjør.
quote:
Originally posted by jwiborg
The son Ole born 1842 was not with them when the family emigrated in 1872. Did he emigrate later? Only Sjur (14), Knud (11) and Thorbjør (7) is listed with the parents.
In 1868, the son Ole moved from Underbakka, Suldal, Rogaland to Jelsa, Rogaland.
This article; Concerning Emigration?, was posted in the Norwegian "Billed-Magazin" in spring 1869.
It decribes several routes from Quebec to the west, and how to cross Lake Michigan.
The magazine was published in Madison, Wisconsin, and many subscribers send it home to friends and relatives in Norway.
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peder
Advanced member
USA
835 Posts |
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eibache
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
6495 Posts |
Posted - 29/03/2016 : 12:51:57
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Leaving Suldal in 1872 #12-18:
Ole Olsen (64)
Thorbjør Knudsdfatter (54)
Sjur Olsen (14)
Knud Olsen (11)
Thorbjør Olsdatter (7)
Bergethe Olsdatter (22)
Halvor Olsen (16) |
Einar |
Edited by - eibache on 29/03/2016 15:45:08 |
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Hopkins
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3351 Posts |
Posted - 29/03/2016 : 14:51:21
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Ossian is in Winneshiek County Iowa - northeastern Iowa and a common location for early Norwegian emigrants The Winneshiek County Genealogical Society (in Decorah) published lists of the cemetery lists of the various county townships and that is available copied to LDS microfilm through the FamilySearch.org catalog and their widely scattered Family History Centers.
I have great-grandparents who left Norway (through Oslo) in 1872, entered North America through Quebec and are proven to have been in northwestern Iowa by 1876. The microfilm copy of the Oslo emigration protocol for them gave some tiny details not included in the wonderful online database at the Digitalarkivet website. They are listed as yet unmarried, the woman nine years older than her future husband and both headed to Milwaukee. The microfilm copy of their arrival manifest through Quebec indicates that they are now married and she has somehow become nine years younger. (A miracle?) I've never found any actual documentation of their earliest years of migration between Quebec and far northwestern Iowa - but there are a number of articles and stories on THIS website that tell more details of similar travels and the struggles of others taking similar journeys. Cousins also now start to relate stories of what they were told about our "John and Mari" - they were in WI or northern ILL for some time, had and lost a set of twins, saved a bit of money somehow and were able to travel across the Mississippi River and finally settle in Iowa a few years later. Unfortunately only stories - no proofs. |
Edited by - Hopkins on 29/03/2016 14:58:05 |
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Kåarto
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
5861 Posts |
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THalseth
Starting member
USA
19 Posts |
Posted - 30/03/2016 : 02:41:04
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Thanks to all who replied.
I have tried finding them in Ancestry.com and Findagrave.com to no avail (so far). Findagrave.com does not have every grave documented for every cemetery.
I think it'd be a lot of work to go through cemetery listings or registers for every possible place between Quebec and Winneshiek County, Iowa.
Anyway, I hope to get an answer one day in the near future.
Again, thanks. |
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NancyC
Medium member
Norway
198 Posts |
Posted - 30/03/2016 : 10:51:31
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You will find information on your family at Underbakke farm in the book by Hallvard M. Hoftun, Gamle Suldal. Gards- og ættesoge. Suldal kommune, 1972, on p. 262, entry 51. According to this information, Ola Olson was from Bø in Telemark and born around 1809. He married Torbjørg Knutsdotter Sørestad, b. 1817, in 1833. They had the following children: Knut (1839-39), Ola b. 1842, Lars b. 1845, Bergitte b. 1849, Ola b. 1851, Halvor b. 1854, Sjur b. 1857, Knut b. 1861, Torbjørg b. 1866. The entry says that Ola Olson was a tenant farmer at Underbakkamoen under part 1 of the Underbakke farm, from the late 1840s. Before this, he lived as a so-called "inderst" at Underbakke for several years. He was a painter. In 1872, Ola and his wife traveled with 6 of their children to Amerika: Lars, Bergitte, Halvor, Sjur, Knut and Torbjørg. The information on how many of them emigrated is certainly based on entries for those leaving Suldal to be found in the church record, but I have not checked this.
There were two sons named Ola (see comment in post below). Neither one emigrated with the rest of the family. The second one b. 1851 did not emigrate, but lived in Sand, the town in Suldal kommune today. He is written up in the local history for Sand: Ernst Berge Drange, Sand. Gårdar og folk, vol. 3, Suldal kommune, 2000, on p. 504. There is a long entry on his family. Ola Olsen Underbakke, Suldal, tenant farm Moen (1851-1922) married Berta Serine Henriksdotter (1850-1925) from Sand. Ola was the son of rose painter Ola Olsen from Bø in Telemark, who had lived at the tenant farm Underbakka-Moen in Suldal. The parents and 6 siblings left for America in 1872, while Ola remained in Norway, the only member of the family to do so. He and Berta had married young, age 19 and 20. They rented lodgings from several people in Sand, before getting their own house in the 1890s. Ola probably had apprenticed in shoemaking and worked as a shoemaker the first years after his marriage. But he also must have learned rose painting from his father. In 1875, he had taken up the craft of rose painting, but he also worked as a shoemaker, did house painting and odd jobs. He was in America 1884-85, probably to visit his family. Ola and Berta had 10 children. Those who grew up mostly immigrated to America. Their son Henrik Lind Moss b. 1891 was the only one who remained in Norway. He took over his father's painting business, and he also did wallpapering. When Ola and Berta celebrated their golden wedding anniversary in 1920, there was an artikkel about them in the newspaper, "Ryfylkeposten".
Suldal kommune is a wealthy county, benefitting from the hydroelectric power industry, and they have long employed Ernst Berge Drange to write their local history. He is now working on the farms in the Suldal Valley. Judging by the article in the volume on Sand cited above, he may have more information on the family before they emigrated. If you want to contact him, let me know.
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NancyC
Medium member
Norway
198 Posts |
Posted - 30/03/2016 : 11:06:04
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A note on families with children bearing the same given name.
As you can see, Ola and Torbjørg had two sons named Ola, one born in 1842 and the other in 1851. The normal pattern at this time involved a very strict custom of namesaking. According to this tradition, the first or second son should be named after the father's father, and after they were finished naming children for their own parents, and other ancestors, a couple would name children after themselves. If a child died, a new one of the appropriate sex would be named after this child (and the grandparent). You can see that the first son was named Knut after Torbjørg's father. He was the "local" grandfather, and thus to be so honored first. This Knut died, and a new one was christened in 1861. But both Olas grew to maturity. The first one was certainly named for his paternal grandfather and the second one probably after his father. But in the Suldal Valley there are many families in which multiple children have the same given name and they all grow to maturity. It is an interesting phenomenon, since in many other places, you will find that parents adhere to the tradition but avoid giving children the same given name. I have discussed this custom with several people in Suldal, but never really gotten a good answer. Strict namesaking is certainly a reason. One informant said that parents would give a new child a name already "used" if they thought the first child was about to die. The norm was otherwise to wait until a child was deceased before using its name. This might explain the custom, but there are quite a few cases in Suldal where 2-4 children were given the same name, and all or most of them survived. In the Underbakke family, however, it seems fairly clear that the two Ola's were namesakes for their paternal grandfather and father.
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NancyC
Medium member
Norway
198 Posts |
Posted - 30/03/2016 : 12:04:38
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| Your 3rd great grandmother, Torbjørg Knutsdotter Sørestad b. 1817, is also written up in the book by Hallvard Hoftun, p. 303. Her folks were from Røldal, the county next to Suldal but in the province of Hordaland. Her father Knut Sjurson (1762-1831) was from Oppistov in Røldal. Her mother Ambjørg Knutsdotter Dalen (also Røldal) died in 1872, age 96, and was presumably born in 1776. Their children were: Ola b. ca. 1798, Inger b. 1801, Sjur b. 1803, Brita b. 1807, Helga b. 1810, Knut b. 1813, Halvor b. 1815, Torbjørg b. 1817. Knut Sjurson bought part 1 of Sørestad from the minister Erich Ancher Bruun in 1799. According to the terms of the sale, he was obliged to support the previous owners, Bård Knutson and Torborg Osmundsdotter. |
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THalseth
Starting member
USA
19 Posts |
Posted - 31/03/2016 : 19:44:54
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Interesting! Thanks for the new information. I had no idea that there was another Ole Olsen Underbakke. Seems very unusual to have three in the same househould. I was aware of the naming patterns, but to have three in the same family must be pretty unique.
Wonder how they were able to avoid any confusion. Were they likely to have nicknames? I notice you used Ola, not Ole. Are they interchangeable depending on one's preference?
Wonder why Henrik Lind Moss doesn't have Olsen or Underbakke to his name. I would understand not having Underbakke because he likely did not live there. I recall that the Norwegians discontinued the patronymic naming pattern in the 1920's or so. So where did Lind or Moss come from? Were his siblings also Lind Moss when they emigrated to America?
Again, thanks.
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NancyC
Medium member
Norway
198 Posts |
Posted - 31/03/2016 : 21:42:41
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I checked the entry in the church record for when the Ola born in 1842 moved to Jelsa. He is also listed as a painter. There might be an entry on him in the local history for Jelsa. I will try to check on this and get back to you. So that means that all three of the Olas in your family were painters! Sand and Suldal had a long tradition in rose painting, and there used to be a school in Sand where you could study the subject, a kind of trade school at the high school level. It was a national trade school for rose painting. Unfortunately, the school authorities closed it a good many years ago. Perhaps these Olas were some of the pioneers in this field? A man from Telemark named Knut Hovden was the teacher there when I first heard about it, and he was from Telemark, as was the elder Ola Olsen Underbakke.
It is an interesting question how they kept the three Olas apart. They might have called father Ola "Papsen" og some nickname like that for Dad. Maybe one of the sons was called Olemann, a typical nickname for a boy name Ola. There are several forms of the name Ola/Ole. Men in rural Norway who bore this name were called Ola. But the ministers were responsible for recording births and names in the church records. At this time, ministers used Danish when they wrote, and the Danish form of Ola is Ole. So most boys named Ola were recorded as Ole in the church records. A boy named Ola probably used the Danish form of his name when (and if) he wrote it. Both forms of this name have developed from the Old Norse form of the name Olafr, which is written Olafur in modern Icelandic. Around the turn of the last century, a "historical spelling" of Ola was used. This was Olav. The trend to use this form of the name is evident in the name taken for Prince Alexander, when his father became King of Norway. He took the name King Haakon, and he chose Olav for his son, who later became King Olav. Some people use the spelling Olaf, and this is also a common spelling of the name in America, as well as Ole. You have certainly heard of the film Frozen, in which the snowman is named Olaf. In the Norwegian version, he is called Olav.
I checked again on the name Henrik Lind Moss, and I think it is a typo in the book, as this person turns up elsewhere. I am pretty sure Henrik junior also used Underbakke as his surname. |
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NancyC
Medium member
Norway
198 Posts |
Posted - 31/03/2016 : 23:49:30
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As for the custom in Suldal of giving the same name to multiple children, here are a couple more examples:
Ånen Gauteson Ståpa had three daughters named Ingrid. The first one died as an infant, but the next two both grew to adulthood, one born in 1818 and the other in 1823.
Then there was Nils Tollefson Thøstheim. He was married twice. His first daughter b. 1793 was named Marta, but she died in infancy. He and his wife produced another Marta in 1805. The first wife died, and in his second marriage, two more daughters were named Marta, one born in 1809 and the other in 1812, with no other children born in between. The half sister Marta was only 5 when the next one was born, so the three Martas were no doubt in the household together for many years.
It is a good question how they kept these people apart, whether they had an elaborate custom of nicknames, called them one, two and three, or something else...
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THalseth
Starting member
USA
19 Posts |
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NancyC
Medium member
Norway
198 Posts |
Posted - 01/04/2016 : 10:33:18
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| I have checked the baptism. Henrik, b. 24 March 1891, was christened Henrik Lind Moss, but these were his given names. It is confusing because he was named after his maternal grandfather, Henrik Lind Fredriksen Moss, originally from Kvinnherad in Hordaland. Henrik is otherwise referred to as Henrik Underbakke in the local history by Ernst Berge Drange (vol. 3, p. 504), so he must have used Underbakke as his surname. |
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Ole Olsen Underbakke & Thorbjør Olsdatter Underbak
