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Cojohn
Starting member
Australia
5 Posts |
 Posted - 12/05/2016 : 08:40:14
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| My grandfather had the surname Sweetensen. He began living in Cardiff, UK, in 1903. According to my father, he was born in Riga Latvia(then Russia) in 1886 approximately; however, in some records he has listed his origins as Kristiania. We think perhaps as a teenager he travelled to Kristiania from Riga and made it his base until 1903. At some stage he would have changed his name to Sweetensen from his original name (something like Kushkin). We are wondering whether, if not native born, his details would have still been recorded in Kristiania for the purposes of national service. |
CJohnson |
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Kåarto
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
5861 Posts |
Posted - 12/05/2016 : 09:53:12
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You are right about at some time he changed his Latvian surname. Sweetensen is not Norwegian, but the ending -sen is. You don't have his first name, in case he lived in Oslo 1900?
Kåre |
Edited by - Kåarto on 12/05/2016 09:53:37 |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7848 Posts |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9410 Posts |
Posted - 12/05/2016 : 16:49:45
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Several Family Tree's exist for William D Sweetensen on Ancestry.com. Not much in the way of sources and no listing of ancestors.
William D Sweetensen
18861927
BIRTH 1886 Riga, Latvia
DEATH 1927 Pontypridd, Glamorganshire, Wales
William D Sweetensen
in the England & Wales, Death Index, 1916-2007
Name: William D Sweetensen
Birth Date: abt 1886
Date of Registration: Jun 1927
Age at Death: 41
Registration district: Pontypridd
Inferred County: Glamorganshire
Volume: 11a
Page: 531 |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9410 Posts |
Posted - 12/05/2016 : 17:14:01
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The Family Tree on Anestry states he was married in 1911 to Norah McCarthy and shows her as still unmarried in the 1911 Wales Census. There are two men who pop up in the 1911 Wales Census as being born abt 1885 and in Riga. Both are seamen and living at the same address. They are Bernat Krause and Gustav Matusal. Have you eliminated both as candidates. Hee is the record for one but the other is also on the same page.
Name: Bernat Krause
Age in 1911: 25
Estimated birth year: abt 1886
Relation to Head: Boarder
Gender: Male
Civil Parish: Cardiff
County/Island: Glamorgan
Country: Wales
Street address: 1 Sophia Street Docks Cardiff
Marital Status: Single
Occupation: Seaman
Registration district: Cardiff
Registration District Number: 588
Sub-registration district: Central Cardiff
ED, institution, or vessel: 27
Household schedule number: 269
Piece: 32126
Household Members:
Name Age
August Risman 30
John Tusbedg 22
Gustav Wikstrom 27
John Karton 24
Annete Risman 30
August Risman Under 1/12
Lisette Strasdin 18
Gustav Matusal 24
Bernat Krause 25
Andrei Fredrikson 19
Karl Fromut 30
Nekoli Eatlarhuk 31
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JaneC
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3020 Posts |
Posted - 12/05/2016 : 17:39:01
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| William Daniel Sweetensen either came to Norway after 1900 census, or appears with name badly transcribed (not likely) such that it's not findable, OR he is listed under unknown Latvian name. |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7848 Posts |
Posted - 12/05/2016 : 19:08:42
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Here are sailors on ships in 1900 in the special census schedule who were born in Riga, found none listed as born in Latvia:
Modest Anikief 1881 Riga ug Letmatros : Helga Folketelling 1900 - skipslister fra innland og utland
August Kera 1873 Riga ug Fyrbøder : Hilda Folketelling 1900 - skipslister fra innland og utland
John Rathart 1854 Riga (Rusland) ug 3die Maskinist : Hugin Folketelling 1900 - skipslister fra innland og utland
Hans Gude 10.02.1878 Riga Rusland ug Bodsmand : Oscar 2 Folketelling 1900 - skipslister fra innland og utland
Georg Tedor 1875 Riga ug Matros : Carmel Folketelling 1900 - skipslister fra innland og utland
Ricard Straoas 1871 Riga ug Matros : Carmel Folketelling 1900 - skipslister fra innland og utland
Edvard Tærniann 01.04.1878 Riga Ved ikke Ungmand : Aicadia Folketelling 1900 - skipslister fra innland og utland
Mathias Blumberg 1874 Riga ug Matros : Fridtjof Nansen Folketelling 1900 - skipslister fra innland og utland
Jakob Losseman 1878 Riga ug Letmatros : Catharina Folketelling 1900 - skipslister fra innland og utland
Alexander Tumm?? 1884 Riga ug Lettmatros Kristiania: Margaretha Folketelling 1900 - skipslister fra innland og utland
Theodor Bergman 1876 Riga ug Matros Kristiansand: Nyland Folketelling 1900 - skipslister fra innland og utland
Fritz Dromme 1873 Riga Matros Bergen: Mines Folketelling 1900 - skipslister fra innland og utland
Julius Otto Wildenhoff 02.12.1878 Riga ug Trimmer : Argo Folketelling 1900 - skipslister fra innland og utland
Johan Asp 1853 Riga (Rusland) e Matros : Sigyn Folketelling 1900 - skipslister fra innland og utland
John Boumann 1877 Riga ug Farbøder!! : Viken Folketelling 1900 - skipslister fra innland og utland
Karl Darsing 1875 Riga ug Matros : Inga Folketelling 1900 - skipslister fra innland og utland
Rolf Czevinski 1878 Riga ug Matros : Dronningen Folketelling 1900 - skipslister fra innland og utland
John Paiso 1865 Riga Rusland ug Matros : Olaf Folketelling 1900 - skipslister fra innland og utland
Karl Kalning 1879 Riga ug Matros : Sappo Folketelling 1900 - skipslister fra innland og utland
Peter Kruse 1866 Riga ug Baadsmand : Aslaug Folketelling 1900 - skipslister fra innland og utland
Rickard Lahigis 1880 Riga ug Let Matros : Nagpore Folketelling 1900 - skipslister fra innland og utland
Hans Strenberg 1875 Riga ug Matros : Ophelia Folketelling 1900 - skipslister fra innland og utland
Karel Stenbærg 1873 Riga ug Matros : Senora Folketelling 1900 - skipslister fra innland og utland
Edvard Graslien 1881 Riga ug Matros : Senora Folketelling 1900 - skipslister fra innland og utland
Edvard Motle 1880 Riga ug Fyrbøder : Dalbeattie Folketelling 1900 - skipslister fra innland og utland
Frederik Dumberg 1883 Riga ug L matros : Prospect Folketelling 1900 - skipslister fra innland og utland
Berthel Borlin 1876 Riga ug Matros : Elida Folketelling 1900 - skipslister fra innland og utland
Alfred Palmgren 1875 Riga ug Matros : Sylvia Folketelling 1900 - skipslister fra innland og utland
A Ronneberg !! Riga (Russ) ug Jungmand : Hanseat Folketelling 1900 - skipslister fra innland og utland
Olaf Mankewist 1876 Riga ug Matros : Frithjof Folketelling 1900 - skipslister fra innland og utland
Petter Wilhelm 1882 Riga ug Jungmand : Malmen Folketelling 1900 - skipslister fra innland og utland
Wladimir Schiegen 1881 Riga ug Dæksgut : Infategable Folketelling 1900 - skipslister fra innland og utland
Carl Jamsohn 1853 Riga ug Matros Fredrikstad: Nesaia Folketelling 1900 - skipslister fra innland og utland
Jan Vikman 1875 Livland ug Stuert : Athene Folketelling 1900 - skipslister fra innland og utland
David Martinson 1871 Wenden (Livland) ug Tømmermand : Souvenir Folketelling 1900 - skipslister fra innland og utland
Johan Rints !! Hapsa Livland ug Tømmermand : Edvard Percy Folketelling 1900 - skipslister fra innland og utland
John Bersin 1872 Lifland ug Matros : Jens Folketelling 1900 - skipslister fra innland og utland
Rudolf Piss 1877 Lifland ug Matros : Vivax Folketelling 1900 - skipslister fra innland og utland
Goottlieb Rosenbauhm 1881 Lifland ug Letmatros : Vivax Folketelling 1900 - skipslister fra innland og utland
Louis Mølzer 18.02.1882 Olai (Kurland) ug Daiks gut : Edvard Percy Folketelling 1900 - skipslister fra innland og utland
All males born Russia (Rusland) 1880-1889 whatever occupation:
Victor Dengin 1883 Rusland b ug Handelsbetjent sit erverv i Rusland Trondheim kjøpstad: Kirke Gade m Folketelling 1900 for 1601 Trondheim kjøpstad
Moses Isaksen 1881 Latzkovæ Rusland el ug Handelsreisende for uldvarer Volda herred: Halkjelsvik m Folketelling 1900 for 1519 Volda herred
Gregorius Oster 1880 Rusland s ug Seminarist (i Rusland) Kristiania kjøpstad: Hausmanns Gade 42 m Folketelling 1900 for 0301 Kristiania kjøpstad
Alex Kull 1880 Rusland ug Fyrbøder : Saturn m Folketelling 1900 - skipslister fra innland og utland
Ivan Perdin 1881 Rusland fl ug Sagfiler Kraakstad: Bjerke m Folketelling 1900 for 0212 Kråkstad herred
Markus Braldiwir(?) 1883? Rusland? b ug Omreisende kramkarl (jøde) Akers: Korsvold m Folketelling 1900 for 0218 Aker herred
Hyrskrim !! 1882 Rusland b ug handelsmand Krødsherred: Ørgenvigeiet m Folketelling 1900 for 0621 Sigdal herred
Alexander 1889 Rusland el ug Sømand Hammerfest kjøpstad m Folketelling 1900 for 2001 Hammerfest kjøpstad
Jakob Jorgojow 1880 Rusland el ug Fiskeri og Jordarbeide Nesseby herred: Byluft m Folketelling 1900 for 2027 Nesseby herred
Sigfrit Gemoff 1881 Rusland tj ug Tjenestegut Nord-Varanger herred: Jakobselv m Folketelling 1900 for 2029 Nord-Varanger herred
Hans Alfred Pettari 1889 Rusland Dattersøn ug Pleiesøn forsørges af hf Sør-Varanger herred: Bjørkholt m Folketelling 1900 for 2030 Sør-Varanger herred
Ludvik Ranta 1880 Rusland b ug Fisker Sør-Varanger herred: Bratli m Folketelling 1900 for 2030 Sør-Varanger herred
Alexander Sotkajærvi 1882 Rusland b ug Fisker Sør-Varanger herred: Bratli m Folketelling 1900 for 2030 Sør-Varanger herred
Isak Levin 1882 Rusland el ug Handelsmand Kristiania kjøpstad: Karl den 12tes Gade 16 m Folketelling 1900 for 0301 Kristiania kjøpstad
Mads Broberg 1881 Nakø Song Rusland ug Jungmand : Høvding m Folketelling 1900 - skipslister fra innland og utland
Johannes Sämø 1882 Rusland ug Matros : Sea Breeze m Folketelling 1900 - skipslister fra innland og utland
Germann Rasemann 1883 Dagø (Rusland) ug Letmatros : Helios m Folketelling 1900 - skipslister fra innland og utland
Tanislaw Symansky 1883 Rusland ug Deksgut : Sterling m Folketelling 1900 - skipslister fra innland og utland
Julius Tarschis 1887.04.04 Rusland s ug Søn Kristiania kjøpstad: Osterhaus Gade 8 m Folketelling 1900 for 0301 Kristiania kjøpstad
Morits Tarschis 1889.01.13 Rusland s ug Søn Kristiania kjøpstad: Osterhaus Gade 8 m Folketelling 1900 for 0301 Kristiania kjøpstad
S. Blomberg 1881 Rusland el ug Handlende Kramkar Fredriksstad: Hjørnet af Baggaden & nedre Torvstrede m Folketelling 1900 for 0103 Fredrikstad kjøpstad
Leventhal 1882 Rusland Reisende ug Handelsmand Vaage: Sørum m Folketelling 1900 for 0515 Vågå herred
Isak Levin 1880 Rusland el ug Handelsmand Drammen kjøpstad: Grønlandsgade m Folketelling 1900 for 0602 Drammen kjøpstad
Jakob Land 1885 Riga Rusland fl ug Handlende Tønsberg kjøpstad: Nedre Langgd m Folketelling 1900 for 0705 Tønsberg kjøpstad
H. Fischer 1883 Gobna Gobnerna Rusland fl ug Handlende Tønsberg kjøpstad: Nedre Langgd m Folketelling 1900 for 0705 Tønsberg kjøpstad
Ivan Lebetjof 1882 Rusland tj ug Tjener. Gaardsarbæide Skjervøy herred: Skjærvøberg m Folketelling 1900 for 1941 Skjervøy herred
Victor Olsen 1883 Rusland s ug Butikbetjent Kolonialfor. Vardø kjøpstad: Strandgade m Folketelling 1900 for 2002 Vardø kjøpstad
Stepan Jerskoff 1880 Rusland el ug Sjømand (Matros) Vardø kjøpstad: N. Langgade m Folketelling 1900 for 2002 Vardø kjøpstad
Johan Njemælæ 1882 Rusland s ug Fisker Vardø kjøpstad: Kristian 4des Gade m Folketelling 1900 for 2002 Vardø kjøpstad
Andreas Brotckin Arkipoff 1885 Rusland tj ug Dreng hos Handelsm. Vadsø kjøpstad: Hvistendahlsgade m Folketelling 1900 for 2003 Vadsø kjøpstad
Jakob Stefansen 1883 Rusland s ug Fisker Vardø herred: Fiskemoldtangen m Folketelling 1900 for 2028 Vardø herred
Kristian Gustavsen 1889 Rusland Pleiesøn ug Pleiesøn ? fors. af en som har maanedsarbeide og fiskeri Vardø herred: Baadsfjord Havnen m Folketelling 1900 for 2028 Vardø herred
Jørgen Persen Matvig 1885 Rusland Pleiesøn ug Behjelpelig med Fiskeriet og Jordbruget Sør-Varanger herred: Myrland m Folketelling 1900 for 2030 Sør-Varanger herred
Iver Jonsen 1880 Rusland fl ug Fisker Sør-Varanger herred: Ropelv m Folketelling 1900 for 2030 Sør-Varanger herred
Alexander Lenc 1884 Rusland el ug Maskinist ved Mekanisk verksted Stavanger kjøpstad: Øvre Strandgade m Folketelling 1900 for 1103 Stavanger kjøpstad
Lion Lendvin 1880 Polen Rusland fl ug Handelsmand Kristiania kjøpstad: Youngsgade 1 m Folketelling 1900 for 0301 Kristiania kjøpstad
Harry Backman 1881 Rusland ug Matros : Bogstad m Folketelling 1900 - skipslister fra innland og utland
Calle Øidermand 1881 Rusland ug Letmatros : Manin m Folketelling 1900 - skipslister fra innland og utland
Carl Prolet 1881 Rusland ug Letmatros : Areola m Folketelling 1900 - skipslister fra innland og utland
Latvian equivalent for William is Vilius.
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Edited by - jkmarler on 13/05/2016 01:13:50 |
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jwiborg
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
4961 Posts |
Posted - 12/05/2016 : 19:33:19
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quote:
Originally posted by jkmarler
Here are sailors on ships in 1900 in the special census schedule who were born in Riga, found none listed as born in Latvia:
(,,,)
The name Latvia didn't exist in 1900. The region was under russian control, and in Norwegian called Lifland, Livland and Letland (various spellings.)
I believe Vilius is the Lithuanian equivalent for William. The Latvian equivalent for William is Vilis.
William Daniel = Vilis Dainis or Viljams Daniels?
Typical Latvian male given names starting on V:
Vairis
Valdemars
Valdis
Valentins
Valerijs
Valters
Valts
Vasilijs
Verners
Viesturs
Viktors
Vilhelms
Vilis
Viljams
Vilnis
Visvaldis
Vitauts
Vitolds
Vitalijs
Vilums
Vladimirs
Vladislavs
Voldemars
Typical Latvian male given names starting on D:
Dagnis
Dainis
Daniels
Didzis
Dmitrijs
Dzintars
Davids
Davis
Deimss
Dons
Dords
Typical Latvian surnames on K:
Kalnin
Kalejs
Kaneps
Krastin
Krievin
Krievs
Kreslin
Krumin
Kruze
Kundzin
Karklin
Klavin
Patronymic Latvian surnames on K:
Kalvans
Karlovics
Karlovs
Karlovskis
Kasparovics
Kasparsons
Klovans
Klavsons
Kovalenoks
Kristapsons
Krijansons
Kritopans
Krians
Karlsons |
Edited by - jwiborg on 12/05/2016 20:17:38 |
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jwiborg
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
4961 Posts |
Posted - 12/05/2016 : 22:47:24
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Many mariners from Riga are listed in the norwegian 1900-census and also in the shipslist from that year.
But your g.father was only 14 y.o. in 1900, and I doubt he went abroad as a mariner before the age of 15/16, so more likely in 1901-02...?
A ship from Riga to Scandinavia would likely have rye as cargo in those days, while it from Norway to Cardiff typically had lumber onboard.
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Edited by - jwiborg on 12/05/2016 22:49:43 |
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JaneC
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3020 Posts |
Posted - 13/05/2016 : 05:57:09
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A boy only briefly in Norway, if not in the census, will be hard and maybe impossible to trace. No one has searched the address book for Kristiania (Oslo), but it defies common sense that he would be in it. link
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Edited by - JaneC on 13/05/2016 06:00:36 |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7848 Posts |
Posted - 13/05/2016 : 07:49:45
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| The name change for any records search will create difficulty. The OP's first original question was whether or not Sweetensen might be in the mønstring and other sailor records in Norway, if he became a sailor while in Norway. He might be in them but which name and where? Christiania's are searchable on line if you have a lot of time to read. I have seen Sweden born people in the files so it is at least possible.... |
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Cojohn
Starting member
Australia
5 Posts |
Posted - 13/05/2016 : 11:12:08
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Wow! Thank you everyone for your help and all that amazing information. It has given us a lot to think about, The William Sweetensen in the British census is my grandfather. His life in the UK is well documented, but the trail goes cold before 1903, mainly because of his name change, and the lack of records on mariners in Riga. It looks like he was too young to be in Norway in 1900, as most of the Riga-born mariners in the 1900 census were older. jwiborg suggested 1901-2. Are shiplists available for 1901-2?
I may be able to trace back through British crew agreements to at least find out when the name change happened, and/or when he was actually in Kristiania.
Also of interest are the two other Riga natives living in Cardiff born around the same time - I'll try to find out more about them.
Thanks again everyone!
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CJohnson |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7848 Posts |
Posted - 13/05/2016 : 16:32:46
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Well, if nothing else works out here is a link to the second to the last end of some of the Oslo records (about 1900) Information included is birthplace and parents' names so if your man appears here might be useful:
Kildeinformasjon: Oslo fylke, Oslo mønstringskontor, Yngre ruller, Annotasjonsruller, Annotasjonsrulle 3 (SAO/A-10569g/F/Fc/Fca/L0003), 1887-1902, oppb: Statsarkivet i Oslo.
Merknader: Annotasjonsrulle, patent nr. 5198-7595.
Permanent sidelenke: http://arkivverket.no/URN:db_read/db/42069/451/
I assume by well documented that you have the actual documents recording William's life in UK. Otherwise you should get the actual record of his marriage, his death record, birth records of his children and the actual record of the Merchant marine the link to the index listing posted earlier. Not every piece of information (which might be valuable) on the actual record gets recorded in the indexes.
Crew are not always recorded on passenger arrival lists. As far as I know Norway did not require arriving ships to record their passengers the way the US, Canada and Great Britain did. I see William's son Alexander appears on a couple of lists of ships arriving in New York in the 1940s so sometimes later crew are included but not regularly before.
Good luck!
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jwiborg
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
4961 Posts |
Posted - 13/05/2016 : 17:29:28
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Colleen, can you provide some more info about your g.father from the earliest period, e.g. before 1912?
- Any links to online records? Which records have you found him in? You mentioned some records from 1903?
- Name of the ships he served on?
- Which records refer to Kristiania?
- Have you observed other spelling variants of his name besides William Daniel Sweetensen? All variants is of interest, and could point towards his original name. "Kushkin" is only orally transmitted?
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Edited by - jwiborg on 13/05/2016 17:30:08 |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7848 Posts |
Posted - 13/05/2016 : 21:03:26
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quote:
Originally posted by jwiborg
quote:
Originally posted by jkmarler
Here are sailors on ships in 1900 in the special census schedule who were born in Riga, found none listed as born in Latvia:
(,,,)
The name Latvia didn't exist in 1900. The region was under russian control, and in Norwegian called Lifland, Livland and Letland (various spellings.)
I believe Vilius is the Lithuanian equivalent for William. The Latvian equivalent for William is Vilis.
William Daniel = Vilis Dainis or Viljams Daniels?
Typical Latvian male given names starting on V:
Vairis
Valdemars
Valdis
Valentins
Valerijs
Valters
Valts
Vasilijs
Verners
Viesturs
Viktors
Vilhelms
Vilis
Viljams
Vilnis
Visvaldis
Vitauts
Vitolds
Vitalijs
Vilums
Vladimirs
Vladislavs
Voldemars
You might want to find Latvian male names that begin with S since Sweetensen might have been a nod at patronymic name origin Sweeten-sen.
Or perhaps Sweetensen was a nod at a piece of Latvian geography. For instance on a 1914 map of Riga there is a small island called "Swirdenholm" , what if William wanted his name to say son of Swirden? |
Edited by - jkmarler on 13/05/2016 21:21:44 |
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David Yaw
Medium member
United Kingdom
128 Posts |
Posted - 31/05/2016 : 15:26:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Cojohn
Wow! Thank you everyone for your help and all that amazing information. It has given us a lot to think about, The William Sweetensen in the British census is my grandfather. His life in the UK is well documented, but the trail goes cold before 1903, mainly because of his name change, and the lack of records on mariners in Riga. It looks like he was too young to be in Norway in 1900, as most of the Riga-born mariners in the 1900 census were older. jwiborg suggested 1901-2. Are shiplists available for 1901-2?
I may be able to trace back through British crew agreements to at least find out when the name change happened, and/or when he was actually in Kristiania.
Also of interest are the two other Riga natives living in Cardiff born around the same time - I'll try to find out more about them.
Thanks again everyone!
Colleen, ref your comment about his UK history being well documented. I see the National Archives in Kew have his UK naturalisation certificate - and presumably application - based on the experience of my grandmother's husband who was also a naturalised Norwegian, there may be further info about his personal life in there. The NA also have his medal card from service in the UK Merchant Marine in WW1, plus some other records of Sweetensen's - which is an uncommon name in UK. I am a regular visitor to Kew, and would be happy to look these up and forward electronic copies if you don't already have them.
Regards |
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Question on Mariners Records held in Archives
