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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9301 Posts |
 Posted - 26/02/2023 : 03:17:24
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So source data for this tree can be found. Here is the marriage of the Johannes Olsen Bjornstad.
Johannes Olsen
in the Norway, Select Marriages, 1660-1926
Name: Johannes Olsen
Gender: Male
Age: 29
Birth Date: 1813
Marriage Date: 27 Apr 1842
Marriage Place: Røyken, Buskerud, Norway
Father:
Ole Pedersen
Spouse:
Karen Johanne Olsdr
FHL Film Number: 278214
Reference ID: 121
You can find a FAG for this man but the data are a mess.
FAG |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9301 Posts |
Posted - 26/02/2023 : 03:39:23
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Dylan, I hope I did not clutter up your thread too much but I was curious to see if a person could get the family tree correct if one put a little work into it. Sot it is possible le and maybe some of the managers of the messed up Trees out there will stumble across this thread and put their Trees in order.
https://www.ancestry.com/family-tree/tree/64198676/family?cfpid=220083316800 |
Edited by - AntonH on 26/02/2023 03:52:30 |
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dylankylesimon
Senior member
USA
200 Posts |
Posted - 26/02/2023 : 04:02:56
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quote:
Originally posted by AntonH
Dylan, I hope I did not clutter up your thread too much but I was curious to see if a person could get the family tree correct if one put a little work into it. Sot it is possible le and maybe some of the managers of the messed up Trees out there will stumble across this thread and put their Trees in order.
https://www.ancestry.com/family-tree/tree/64198676/family?cfpid=220083316800
Oh, no worries at all Anton. After your research, I am glad that the information is indeed wrong. My one post got out of hand, so I just made a new thread for it. I had contacted people in the past to correct their false information, as some had taken over some of my ancestor's wrong information and went on a wild goose chase with it.
Others click Yes on every hint that they get and end up with thousands of people in their trees. I have one DNA match, fairly close in DNA, who has thousands of people in his. He has some of my ancestors from completely different branches, in his with complete different information. No wonder, nobody trust Ancestry.
I tread Ancestry, MyHeritage, FamilySearch, Digitalarkivet, and Nb.no all as tools and it is our responsibility to ensure good research practices.
"Honesty, scrupulousness, transparency, independence, and responsibility are the guiding principles for good research. Not considering these principles as guiding threatens both the quality and the reliability of scientific research and that of the individual scientist and the university as an institution."
Basically, as longer as time will go on as more poisonous these Ancestry Family Trees will get and as harder it will be to find those random hints. If everyone has claimed certain sources, it will deter you from using them, because they have been claimed by another person.
Now you gotta not only prove that the source is yours, but also that the source is not the other Jon Smith. I am glad I am only 29, but have gotten this far in my Family Research. I can kick up my feet for the next 70 years, and research casually, as my last four years, including your and Jackie's work is almost like a full-time job. |
Edited by - dylankylesimon on 26/02/2023 04:05:48 |
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dylankylesimon
Senior member
USA
200 Posts |
Posted - 26/02/2023 : 04:10:06
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quote:
Originally posted by AntonH
Ancestry has about 35 trees for this family, so the mis-information is quite widespread.
Ole Larsen
1793–1827
BIRTH 1793 • Suttestad, Fåberg, Oppland, Norway
DEATH 22 JAN 1827 • Pontiac, Oakland, Michigan, United States
Mari Jonsdatter Sonderengen
1795–1865
BIRTH ABT 1795 • Buskerud, Norway
DEATH 1865 • Norway
Parents of Ole are.
Lars Hansen
1736–1823
BIRTH 1736 • Vangen, Nord Odal, Hedmark, Norway
DEATH 1823 • Kvarnstuen, Norway
Eli Sjonnesdatter
1751–1826
BIRTH 1751 • Struterud, Nord Odal, Norway
DEATH 20 MAY 1826 • Kvarnstuen, Norway
No parents listed for Mari and no sources that are useable.
This Mari is wrong right? |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
Posted - 26/02/2023 : 04:52:10
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Mari Jonsdatter #49 death:
https://media.digitalarkivet.no/en/kb20051111050856
Parents of Ole Larsen are not correct. His father is Lars Larsen and his mother's name is not yet known for certain. Actual birth date and death date of Ole is yet to be determined.
Ole Larsen's father died in 1835 in Norderhov. #53. His death also included a probate in 1837 which the surviving children of Ole were named as legatees.
Ringerike sorenskriveri, SAKO/A-105/H/Hb/Hbd/Hbda/L0001: Skifteutlodningsprotokoll, 1828-1841, s. 254b-255a
Brukslenke for sidevisning: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/sk20090127410260
The estate begins at the bottom of the left column of the left page. The children and widow Margit Syversdatter are listed at the top of the left column on the right page.
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Edited by - jkmarler on 26/02/2023 05:10:57 |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9301 Posts |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9301 Posts |
Posted - 26/02/2023 : 05:16:21
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But this Tree seems to be correct.
Johannes Olsen Liverud (Bjornstad)
1814–1899
BIRTH 7 AUG 1814 • Frogner, i, Lier, Buskerud, Norway
DEATH 22 OCT 1899 • Lake Park, Becker, Minnesota, USA
Parents
Ole Pedersen Aaqvisla
1787–1854
BIRTH 15 AUG 1787 • Lier, Buskerud, Norway
DEATH 1854 • Sætre, Buskerud, Norway
Sigrid (Siri) Johannesdatter
1795–
BIRTH 1795 • Buskerud, Norway
DEATH Unknown
https://www.ancestry.com/family-tree/person/tree/64198676/person/220115075387/facts |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9301 Posts |
Posted - 26/02/2023 : 05:23:31
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The Trees on Ancestry.com for these people are really a MESS. There may be abut 160 or more Trees. They consist of a mixture of parents for Johannes Olsen Bjornstad. Some with Ole Larsen as father and others with Ole Pedersen as father. The mother consists of a mix of some with Mari Jonsdatter Sonderengen as mother with either of the two fathers and some with Sigrie Siri Sigrid Johansdatter as the mother again with either of the two so called fathers.
It is so bad that I think it is almost impossible to fix now. |
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dylankylesimon
Senior member
USA
200 Posts |
Posted - 23/04/2023 : 03:57:10
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Found my 3rd great-grandmother Mattie's Naturalization Record today, which is one more step towards potentially finding out what Petter was up to from 1870 to 1885.
Given the timeline, they must have gotten married between 14 Feb 1882 and 1 May 1885 somewhere between Watertown, Codington County, Dakota Territory, USA, and Winona, Winona, Minnesota, USA.
For reference, Watertown and Winona were connected by railroad. Mattie was in Codington County on 14 Feb 1882 as Mathea F Paulsen, known on 1 May 1885 as Mattie Simon. Peter traveled as Peter Evenson in 1870, but was known as Peter E Simon on 1 May 1885. Given that my 2nd great-grandfather listed Watertown as his birth place, which is reflected in the census as him being from Dakota Territory. They likely met in Watertown and got married there.
Variations of Mathea Fredriksdatter Simon:
Mathea, Mattie, Mathia, Mathilde
Paulsen, Paulson, Poulsen, Poulson
Simon
Variation of Petter Evensen Simon:
Peter, Petter, P E
Simon
If you all wanna give it a shot and look for the marriage certificate only, I would much appreciate it. Please don't look for anything else, as I got everything else, besides Peter's Naturalization Record and what his timeline from 1870 to 1885.
I think that they might have gotten married at the Grace Lutheran Church in Watertown.
If you want to familiarize yourself with them again, here is the FamilySearch Family Tree, which has all records:
https://www.familysearch.org/tree/person/details/GX2G-S4V
Both their Biography can also be found at the bottom of their pages. |
Edited by - dylankylesimon on 23/04/2023 04:47:24 |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
Posted - 23/04/2023 : 17:33:37
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You could contact the church, here is their info from their webpage:
Contact Info
(605) 886-5737
Watertown, SD 57201
Pastor Cheryl
(605) 237-1501
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dylankylesimon
Senior member
USA
200 Posts |
Posted - 25/04/2023 : 04:05:58
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Thank you again to everyone who helped me for 4 years with this journey! Today, I got the picture of Petter's gravestone, that I had placed to build a foundation to my Family Name.
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Edited by - dylankylesimon on 25/04/2023 04:08:36 |
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dylankylesimon
Senior member
USA
200 Posts |
Posted - 04/05/2023 : 03:44:31
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quote:
Originally posted by jkmarler
You could contact the church, here is their info from their webpage:
Contact Info
(605) 886-5737
Watertown, SD 57201
Pastor Cheryl
(605) 237-1501
I did contact them, but:
"Unfortunately, our records don’t go back far enough to find the people you are looking for. I also searched later years (up to 1910) in hopes of a familiar name but no such luck.
If I end up coming across something I will be sure to let you know."
Anyhow, I'll probably be driving to Watertown Memorial Day Weekend, so maybe I can get some more answers |
Edited by - dylankylesimon on 04/05/2023 03:47:05 |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
Posted - 04/05/2023 : 10:13:58
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Here is the Watertown S.D. Norwegian Lutheran Church listings from Norsk Lutherske Menigheter (pub 1916). Looks like only one of such. Records from it might be in the ELCA database at Ancestry?
https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=hvd.32044081802241&view=1up&seq=1015&q1=watertown
And there were some other smaller churches in Codington county. And of course, it's possible that your ancestors went with some other denomination. For instance here is Fargo there were a number of Norwegians who were members of the local Presbyterian church. Sometimes the Norwegians went with those who were available to serve. |
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dylankylesimon
Senior member
USA
200 Posts |
Posted - 04/05/2023 : 20:07:22
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I think that the church you posted is actually the Grace Lutheran Church, as the dates match the ones below. I also think it was the only one in Watertown.
However, yes, in theory, it could be a different church. Mattie's half-brother Martin O Poulson (her half-brother) got married in 1869 in Watertown, but there is also no record. Mattie's twin brother got married in 1886 in Yellow Medicine, Minnesota, USA. Mattie's other half-brother Anton, also suppose to have gotten married in 1887 in Watertown, but no record as well.
So I assume, there were probably just no records, or maybe the marriage didn't occur in the first place. All those dates stem from the U.S. Censuses and no Family Tree has any marriage records besides the twin brother.
Grace Lutheran Church Through the Years
Sept. 19, 1883 - Seven men met to organize a Lutheran Church in Watertown
Dec. 22, 1883 - The First Scandinavian Evangelical Lutheran Church of Watertown, Dakota Territory, was organized in a room over the Merchants Bank of Watertown. Hans Mathiesen, was elected chairman of the
1890 Ministerial Book and baptismal fount were bought. Congregation joined the “United Lutheran Church of America.” |
Edited by - dylankylesimon on 04/05/2023 20:09:19 |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
Posted - 06/05/2023 : 07:55:18
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Well, they should have had a record book from at least 1890 then but that might not be early enough for your mission. Usually there will be a civil marriage records as well as church records but Handybook says marriage records of Codington county begin about 1900, so unless that piece of information is wrong, you might be out-of-luck. Maybe the public library will have newspaper on microfilm for dates not covered online....
And then there is the thing that in Dakota Territory, common law marriages were legal. I don't know when they were outlawed in South Dakota but in North Dakota the first legislative session after statehood (2 Nov 1889) took care of that.
So you may want to search for Mattie's and Peter's divorce record. |
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Peter E Simon (1870 Immigration to the US)
