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dpete
Starting member
USA
9 Posts |
 Posted - 01/02/2019 : 02:45:57
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I have searched without success to verify when my great grandmother left Norway. According to US census information she provided to the recorder, she arrived in 1884. Most likely she would have sailed from Trondheim, but I do not find her listed in the Trondheim emigration protocol. Her birth name was Kari Olsdatter Lund, born 28 Oct 1839 at Horg, Støren, Sør-Trøndelag, Norway. When her mother married, Kari's farm name changed to Helgemo until she married Peder Andersen Refseth in 1861, but was widowed in 1865 after they had 2 sons, Anders Pedersen Aune (also seen as Refseth) & Erik Pedersen Refseth. Prior to her departure, Kari spent her years in Norway working as a tjenestepige (servant) on area farms, among them Refseth, Aune and Haugen before emigrating to Minnesota to join her 2 sons who emigrated a couple of years before her. Her son, Erik Pedersen Refseth emigrated from Trondheim 12 April 1882 and son Anders followed 1 Nov 1882.
If the year 1884 is correct for her departure from Norway, she would have been about 45 years old. She is in Minnesota in 1885 as her marriage to Ole Pedersen, also a Norwegian immigrant, occurred in Brainerd on 21 June 1885. I do not know if Kari and Ole knew each other in Norway or if they traveled together. I don't find an Ole Pedersen leaving Trondheim in 1882-84. There has never been any mention to me among family members that Kari and Ole traveled together. I do not know the farm Ole would have been living at prior to leaving Norway. According to census data, Ole is said to have immigrated into USA in 1882, but I find no Ole Pedersen in the Trondheim protocol leaving Norway that year.
Since I have not located Kari’s departure in the Trondheim emigration protocol (who went by Carrie Anderson in Minnesota before marrying Ole Pedersen), and have not found her entering the USA, I’m not sure where to look next. Any help or tips to help solve this matter will be greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance!
Pete
Riverton, MN |
Pete |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9301 Posts |
Posted - 01/02/2019 : 03:53:36
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A tough one. I am going to put in a few links that might help me latter.
Kari on Refseth in 1875
1875
Erik leaving Søren in 1882
#2
Erik leaving Trondheim
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Edited by - AntonH on 01/02/2019 17:12:38 |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
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dpete
Starting member
USA
9 Posts |
Posted - 01/02/2019 : 16:57:52
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Thank you for your input, lyndal40 and jkmarler! It seems odd that Kari's son's departures are recorded but hers is not. What puzzles me is that I've not been able to find a record of leaving Norway or of entering USA. Even when looking for a woman of age 45 departing Trondheim in the years 1882-1885 I do not find someone who would fit her had she used a different name. Kari's reisemål would have been Brainerd, Minnesota if she used real data. Her sons would most likely have paid for her ticket to America as they both had found employment after arriving and then sent for her.
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
Posted - 01/02/2019 : 21:00:17
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Don't know if this will make a difference or not.
Family lore is that she came after her sons and that they paid her ticket. What if she left first and sent for them? You'd have to look from 1875 and up. Erik's ticket was paid for in America, by whom? |
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dpete
Starting member
USA
9 Posts |
Posted - 01/02/2019 : 21:50:44
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| jk, I can't say for certain because all parties are deceased and I've not found any direct relative who knows more about the matter than me, but I'm reasonably sure she did not leave before her sons. I have looked in years before Erik and Anders emigrated and to date have not found an earlier departure for Kari. USA federal and state of Minnesota census data indicate that her husband Ole immigrated in 1882 and Kari in 1884. The earliest I can prove Kari was in Minnesota is by her 1885 marriage to Ole. But we know that not everything told to the census taker is correct or truthful. I've not been able to find out who paid for Erik's ticket, but I suspect it was a close friend or relative from Støren who had already emigrated to Amerika and provided the ticket to Brainerd, MN for him. I suspect the person paying for the ticket was already working in Brainerd because Erik went directly there and secured a job at the Railroad yard once entering the USA. Thank you for your input! |
Pete |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9301 Posts |
Posted - 01/02/2019 : 22:45:25
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I see in the 1900 Census that a Andrew Pederson Apr 1861 Norway and a Erick Pederson Feb 1864 Norway are both on the same page of the Census document as Kari and Ole and a grandson named Ole. I assume that these are the two sons of Kari.
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dpete
Starting member
USA
9 Posts |
Posted - 01/02/2019 : 22:49:08
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| Lynda, yes, that is correct. Kari and Ole are listed in the 1995 Minnesota census but both are deceased by the time the 1910 USA censsus was taken. |
Pete |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9301 Posts |
Posted - 01/02/2019 : 23:04:46
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Looking over any and all Kari coming to America in 1884 in the Ancestry.com data base only turns up one candidate and that one is a little off on birth year. But she is going to Minnesota.
Kari Olsdatten
in the Massachusetts, Passenger and Crew Lists, 1820-1963
Name: Kari Olsdatten
Gender: Female
Age: 34
Nationality: Norwegian
Birth Date: abt 1850
Departure Place: Queenstown Ireland and Liverpool England, Ireland and Liverpool England
Arrival Date: 2 Jun 1884
Arrival Place: Boston, Massachusetts, USA
Ship: Catalonia
The person listed next to Kari is transcribed by Ancestry as
Pernille O Moland
in the Massachusetts, Passenger and Crew Lists, 1820-1963
Name: Pernille O Moland
Gender: Female
Age: 26
Nationality: Norwegian
Birth Date: abt 1858
Departure Place: Queenstown Ireland and Liverpool England, Ireland and Liverpool England
Arrival Date: 2 Jun 1884
Arrival Place: Boston, Massachusetts, USA
Ship: Catalonia
My guess is that person is Pernille Olsdatr Mæland leaving Bergen May 15, 1884.
Link
The list of passengers on the same page as Pernille in the old data base does not show any Kari.
Link
But does contain a Synneva Larsdatr Blaksæter. Also a Bergen passenger.
So I think we can postulate that most of the passengers on this ship are from Bergen.
Would Kari go all the way down to Bergen to board a ship to America. |
Edited by - AntonH on 01/02/2019 23:36:50 |
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dpete
Starting member
USA
9 Posts |
Posted - 01/02/2019 : 23:22:55
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| Lynda, thank you. This appears to be the same record I have found and have thought may be her, however, the age is wrong. Although if the recorder reversed the letters that should have been 43, it would be close enough to her actual age. Kari's birth record states she was born 28 Oct 1839. However, it seems she thought she was born in 1840 and even listed 1843 in one of the censuses. She may have fudged her age leaving Norway, but if she did it is a puzzle why. It is my understanding that the ship leaving Trondheim then went to England before sailing for America, so perhaps that is why the departure place is listed as such in the Ancestry data base. Does that square with what your understanding as well? If there were a way to know where she went from Boston, then it would be helpful, but perhaps not possible to know. I have a copy of that actual document and it is the closest I have found that could be her. Her stated age is what keeps me wondering. . |
Pete |
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jwiborg
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
4961 Posts |
Posted - 01/02/2019 : 23:32:39
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| Could be Kari Olsdatr Brynestad (33) who left Bergen on May 14th. |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
Posted - 01/02/2019 : 23:33:44
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Yes, too bad the census taker mucked up the 1905 census as there is a question in it about how long you've lived in Minnesota and how long in the enumeration district. The second dates 7 years 10 months cover the e.d. but on Carrie's the years in Minnesota number 65, obviously incorrect and Ole, the husband's number is 22. So the only year date of migration is 1884 from the 1900 census. (The 1895 Minnesota census also asks the residency question but it usually is only answered for the head of the household, not for each member of the household )
It's possible that she might have had an obituary which recounted her travel story. There don't seem to be Brainerd papers at the Minnesota Digital Newspaper Hub. Newspaper Archive.com has some Brainerd papers but I think those are later dates. Best place would be to try the local public library for microfilm or the Minnesota Historical Society to ILL microfilm to cover the dates. |
Edited by - jkmarler on 02/02/2019 01:45:47 |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9301 Posts |
Posted - 01/02/2019 : 23:45:40
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From Jan Peter
quote:
Could be Kari Olsdatr Brynestad (33) who left Bergen on May 14th.
Yes that is a very good match for the Kari Olsdatter who arrived in Mass. in 1884.
Age is right and she is leaving from Bergen like all the other passengers I found.
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
Posted - 02/02/2019 : 01:58:13
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Kari is faddernes to grandson Peder # 25 baptized 8 Oct 1882 so still there then:
SAT, Ministerialprotokoller, klokkerbøker og fødselsregistre - Sør-Trøndelag, 687/L1002: Parish register (official) no. 687A08, 1878-1890, p. 30
Quick link: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20061017040545
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dpete
Starting member
USA
9 Posts |
Posted - 02/02/2019 : 02:54:27
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JK, that was a keen observation! The Peder to whom you refer is my farfar. Knowing that Kari was still at Refseth at that time is what makes this so puzzling. It appears Erik's brother Anders was also among the fadderne (Anders P Refseth). Kari is not listed in the parish church book leaving the parish in 1882, 1883, 1884 or 1885, whereas there is record of Peder's father Erik leaving the parish and Trondheim in April of 1882, Anders leaving Trondheim in November of 1882, and then Peder and his mother Guri leaving the parish and sailing from Trondheim in 1883.
I may have to be satisfied knowing that Kari most likely left Norway somewhere between 1882, and the latest early 1885. The 1884 census reference may be as close as I will be able to come to verification, even though it is not definitive.
Thank you to jwiborg, lindal40, and jkmarler for helping me with this mystery! |
Pete |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
Posted - 02/02/2019 : 11:10:36
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A worker Kari O ___ is faddernes for this Peder # 3 on 11 Feb 1883 Refseth also:
SAT, Ministerialprotokoller, klokkerbøker og fødselsregistre - Sør-Trøndelag, 687/L1002: Ministerialbok nr. 687A08, 1878-1890, s. 33
Brukslenke for sidevisning: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20061017040548
Quite a few of the births here have fathers in America..... |
Edited by - jkmarler on 02/02/2019 12:07:59 |
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Emigration puzzle
