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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
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NATaylorTurner
Starting member
USA
15 Posts |
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ToreL
Advanced member
Norway
842 Posts |
 Posted - 10/02/2020 : 20:01:06
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| The death certificate says that the he died on April 2 1929, aged 75 years, 3 months and 12 days, but it also gives his date of birth as November 20th 1853. This doesn't add up. Assuming that the date of death is correct, he was either born a month later or he was a month older by the time of his death. |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9301 Posts |
Posted - 10/02/2020 : 23:28:19
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Here are the only Edvard born in 1853 with a father named Joh* Joh* found in the Ancestry data base
Name: Edvard Johnsen
Gender: Male
Birth Date: 27 jun 1853
Baptism Date: 25 sep 1853
Baptism Place: Vinger, Hedmark, Norway
Father: John Johnsen
Mother: Anne Gulbrandsdatter
1875
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/census/person/pf01052076003614
Name: Edvard Johansen
Gender: Male
Baptism Date: 30 okt 1853 (30 Oct 1853)
Baptism Place: , Rodenes, Ostfold, Norway
Father: Johannes Johnsen
Mother: Kirstine Brynildsdr
Name: Edvard Marius Johnsen
Gender: Male
Birth Date: 21 okt 1853 (21 Oct 1853)
Baptism Date: 25 mai 1854 (25 May 1854)
Baptism Place: Namsos, Nord-Trøndelag, Norway
Father: John Johnsen
Mother: Karen Olsdatter
Confirmed in 1870
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/279/pk00000000553321
Name: Edvard Johansen
Gender: Male
Birth Date: 4 jan 1853
Baptism Date: 6 feb 1853
Baptism Place: Vaale,Vestfold,Norway
Father: Johan Frederik Johannessen
Mother: Erikka Eriksdr
Name: Johan Edvard Johansen
Gender: Male
Birth Date: 8 apr 1853
Baptism Date: 15 mai 1853 (15 May 1853)
Baptism Place: Aremark,Ostfold,Norway
Father: Johanes Johanesen
Mother: Maria Johanesdr
Name: Edvard Johnsen
Gender: Male
Birth Date: 21 mar 1852
Baptism Date: 20 mai 1852 (20 May 1852)
Baptism Place: Ytterøy , Nord-Trøndelag, Norway
Father: John Johnsen Brane
Mother: Olive Johannesdr
FHL Film Number: 307073
in the 1910 Norway Census
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Edited by - AntonH on 11/02/2020 02:11:39 |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
Posted - 11/02/2020 : 12:29:33
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quote:
Originally posted by ToreL
The death certificate says that the he died on April 2 1929, aged 75 years, 3 months and 12 days, but it also gives his date of birth as November 20th 1853. This doesn't add up. Assuming that the date of death is correct, he was either born a month later or he was a month older by the time of his death.
That is definitely a trouble with such age calculations. My guess would be the math is wrong. The death certificate is issued to certify the information about the death, so death date is most likely the most accurate on it. How would you know that the age is 75 y 3 m 12 d unless you asked someone what's the date they were born and performed the subtraction?
Other things that affect would be an actual uncorrected typo on the certificate in any of the dates. We also know from the 1900 census, which was taken during his actual lifetime, Ed Johnson was recorded as born Nov 1852. |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
Posted - 11/02/2020 : 12:48:54
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A possible for the "assumed" son John in the 1900 census is still in Minnesota b Nov 1881:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M9S5-KQ6
Another possible John Johnson in North Dakota in 1900 b Aug 1881:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M9VK-CGF
The 1895 census does not tell exactly the relationships in the houshold. In the 1900 census Gurine is listed as the mother of 3 and 3 are living, so John must still be alive, though not in his parents' household. In 1910 Gurine is listed as mother of 4 and 4 are living...
Ed is often the Americanized version of the Norwegian name Odd.... |
Edited by - jkmarler on 15/02/2020 12:48:00 |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9301 Posts |
Posted - 11/02/2020 : 21:33:45
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Gurine Berg came to America in May of 1881 destination was give as Quebec. She had her first child that we know of around 1882 in North Dakota named John. See the 1895 Minnesota Census posted by Jackie at the bottom of first page.
Not much time to find Edward. One would think he was already living somewhere in North Dakota in 1881/1882.
I have not been able to find a viable candidate leaving Trondheim about 1880 or so as the thought that perhaps Gurine knew her future husband before she left Norway keeps coming to my mind. |
Edited by - AntonH on 11/02/2020 22:08:48 |
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NATaylorTurner
Starting member
USA
15 Posts |
Posted - 11/02/2020 : 22:54:41
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Thanks Lyndal40,
I was wondering that too, if they knew they were going to marry when they got to America. I guess we assume that he fathered John? That is the only time I see them or her in North Dakota. I have in my tree that John was born in 1884, everything happened in North Dakota between census times so there must be somewhere else to look. I knew about him and I did find a new child just recently looking at others trees etc., listed with Edward and Gurine Johnson as parents. It is Martha Elvine Johnson b 1898 in Franklin, Minnesota. Haven't found anymore on either Martha or John but I will work on the US Genealogy searches.
I have just found photos here that I am curious about. A woman listed as Dagney M and Hilda C Brustad so I assume they are Anna's daughters and sister to Gurine!?!
Nancy |
Nancy Turner |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9301 Posts |
Posted - 11/02/2020 : 23:04:57
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This record indicates that Martha Elvine was confirmed in 1898 not born that year. The original page shows her as 14 years old, so born about 1884. Where was she in the 1895 Minnesota Census? And how does she fit in with John? Could she be the same person as the one named Ethyl in the 1895 Census?
Martha Elvine Johnson
in the U.S., Evangelical Lutheran Church in America Church Records, 1781-1969
Name: Martha Elvine Johnson
Record Type: Confirmation
Confirmation Date: 10 Jun 1898
Father: Edw Johnson
Mother: Gurine Johnson
Church Name: Hauge
Church Location: Franklin, Minnesota
[url=https://postimages.org/] [/url]
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Edited by - AntonH on 11/02/2020 23:12:00 |
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NATaylorTurner
Starting member
USA
15 Posts |
Posted - 11/02/2020 : 23:18:13
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I wish we couold REALLY count on the documents because I have a DC for Edward as well but it lists his Death as Apr 2,1939, with all the similar comments. We know that is not correct simply because Gurine was the widow, so he died before her death in 1933. His birth date I ave only seen as 1853...maybe the Years, Months and Days were mis-calculated?
quote:
Originally posted by jkmarler
Ed's death certificate gives his date of birth as 20 Nov 1853 and his father as John Johnson. Unfortunately no birth place name.:
image: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-6X3Q-33Z
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:N35S-TRN
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Nancy Turner |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
Posted - 12/02/2020 : 00:41:36
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quote:
Originally posted by NATaylorTurner
I wish we couold REALLY count on the documents because I have a DC for Edward as well but it lists his Death as Apr 2,1939, with all the similar comments. We know that is not correct simply because Gurine was the widow, so he died before her death in 1933. His birth date I ave only seen as 1853...maybe the Years, Months and Days were mis-calculated?
quote:
Originally posted by jkmarler
Ed's death certificate gives his date of birth as 20 Nov 1853 and his father as John Johnson. Unfortunately no birth place name.:
image: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-6X3Q-33Z
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:N35S-TRN
Enlarge the image the date of death is clearly 2 April 1929 not 39. Math is the likeliest thing to be wrong. Year of birth for Norwegians are usually accurate in Norway but not so much in US, don't know why--maybe American census takers can't count or don't count the same as Norwegian census takers? |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
Posted - 12/02/2020 : 00:44:36
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quote:
Originally posted by NATaylorTurner
Thanks Lyndal40,
I was wondering that too, if they knew they were going to marry when they got to America. I guess we assume that he fathered John? That is the only time I see them or her in North Dakota. I have in my tree that John was born in 1884, everything happened in North Dakota between census times so there must be somewhere else to look. I knew about him and I did find a new child just recently looking at others trees etc., listed with Edward and Gurine Johnson as parents. It is Martha Elvine Johnson b 1898 in Franklin, Minnesota. Haven't found anymore on either Martha or John but I will work on the US Genealogy searches.
I have just found photos here that I am curious about. A woman listed as Dagney M and Hilda C Brustad so I assume they are Anna's daughters and sister to Gurine!?!
Nancy
There was a territorial census taken in 1885 in Dakota (to be sure that the Dakotas wouldn't be an economic burden to the nation!) but I didn't find Ed and all the John Johnsons b 18821883 belonged to other families. |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
Posted - 12/02/2020 : 01:12:51
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| The other surname Gurine is tagged with is Moldy on her son Arthur's death record. |
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NATaylorTurner
Starting member
USA
15 Posts |
Posted - 13/02/2020 : 01:50:06
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quote:
Originally posted by lyndal40
Thanks for the response Nancy. Perhaps many of the questions on Gurine can be answered from your early thread.
Your first question was
quote:
I am looking for clarity. The notes you just sent me to says that Sivert and Anna Jonetta were married in 1885, but their daughter Gurine was born in 1857. Also Sivert was born in 1838, if this was their first marriage, kinda weird to be so old as well. Is it possible this was not their first marriages?
Gurine was born June 10, 1858 with the name Gurine Josephine. Mother is listed as Jonetta Johnsdatter Kolberg (Anna Jonette) father is listed as Bernt Kristophersen or Kristiansen Loftbergsplads.
#76
Anna Jonette was unmarried at the time that Gurine was born in 1858. Later in her life when Gurine was about 20 years old, Anna Jonette married Sivert Zachariassen Brustad. That was in 1885. Gurine was on her own by then. So Anna Jonette was the mother of Gurine but Sivert was only her step-father. Very little is known of the father of Gurine except that he was married at the time but not to Anna Jonette.
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Nancy Turner |
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My Great Great Grandfather
