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lizabethbibler
Starting member
USA
10 Posts |
 Posted - 13/04/2021 : 00:19:40
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So, I guess Elen was alone at the birth of Inger Maria and she selected the false name of Johan Petter Svendsen from Bergen as the father for Inger Maria? So the child was known as Inger Maria Johansdatter? And then she became known as Berg? Since Elen was in prison for many more years after giving birth to Inger, I wonder where Inger lived? And who she lived with? I’m looking for her under Johansdatter since that name was given at the baptism. Unless she was adopted. Inger’s date of birth on that baptism certificate looks like 2 December and her baptism date looks like 20 December.
Thank you for all that information. Also the beautiful photograph. When Elen left her husband, the baker Jon Jensen Moe after 2 years of marriage and left her 2 year old son too, I wonder if the father continued to take care of him? Johan was about 14 years old when his father was found dead in the river under the dock house. I wonder where that little boy grew up and who took care of him. He was probably very happy to find a home in the military.
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jwiborg
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
4961 Posts |
Posted - 13/04/2021 : 07:10:34
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Yes, "Johan Petter Svendsen from Bergen" was named as the childs father by Elen herself. It was probably too much to name an infamous fortress slave as the father, when herself was a prisoner, and also the godparents. The Godparents are named and mentioned as "alle Tugthuuslemmer men ikke dømte fra Æren", which translates to "all inmates of the penitentiary but not convicted from their honor".
Shortly after the christening Inger Maria ended up in a foster home. Later records for her shows her father as "Even Kristiansen".
She married Niels Hansen Myhre (born 12 Jun 1833, Strinda) on 17 Apr 1864 (Byneset church). Their son Edvard Nilsen Myhre born 22 Jan 1859 (Byneset church).
Johan Andreas was confirmed in Leinstrand church in 1828, so he likely had some relatives there, possibly an uncle or aunt...? |
Edited by - jwiborg on 13/04/2021 22:57:21 |
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Borge
Veteran Moderator
Norway
1299 Posts |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7848 Posts |
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ToreL
Advanced member
Norway
883 Posts |
Posted - 13/04/2021 : 17:32:27
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| Geni page for this family branch, leading down to a (per 2015) living person administering some of the profiles. |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7848 Posts |
Posted - 13/04/2021 : 19:52:44
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quote:
Originally posted by ToreL
Geni page for this family branch, leading down to a (per 2015) living person administering some of the profiles.
From the look of things there could be lots of American cousins amongst the grand children.... |
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lizabethbibler
Starting member
USA
10 Posts |
Posted - 19/04/2021 : 02:42:18
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I have been busy assimilating this fantastic amount of information. Some questions have come up pertaining to my great great grandmother, Ane Maria Lorentzdatter who had a child with Johan Andreas Johansen Moe (Julianne Marie Johansdatter b. 24 Dec 1835, baptized 14 Feb 1836, Var Frue Kirke, Trondheim- my great grandmother). On April 8, Jackie posted a record of the birth and baptism of another child fathered by Johan Andreas Johansen Moe and born to Randi Andersdatter (Oline Andrea Johansdatter, b. 16 Feb 1840, baptized 15 Mar 1840, Var Frue Kirke, Trondheim). That record contained a picture of the church book and I noticed a large number of comments and notes written in the church book that are associated with that particular baptism. Quick link: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20050610020148
I have been working to translate those comments, presumably written by the priest or a church clerk, because I noticed Ane Marie Lorentzdatter’s name mentioned in this record. I think the priest is accusing Johan Johansen of something. I have several apps for translating words from Norwegian to English but if I cannot determine what the word is and spell it correctly, the app is useless. I think maybe I am trying to translate an old form of Norwegian using an app and dictionary that is only for the more modern language of Norway. Sometimes I type in a word to translate and the translation says “not found” in Norwegian and it automatically defaults to Danish.#129335;#8205;#9792;#65039;
I think the translation of these comments could be important and contain information about Johan Johansen Moe and his parents and also about Ane Maria Lorentzdatter. Both of these people are apparently my great great grandparents. In the last few days a relative has suggested an alternative Ane Marie Lorentzdatter so I need to get as many details as possible to make sure I have the right one. I would be very grateful if somebody can read that handwriting.
There is also a comment Jackie made just above this record concerning the baptism of a baby boy, Johan Martin Johansen, suggesting that the information contained in his baptism record might be something to consider. And might tell me what Johan Johansen was up to other than fathering children! I think she is correct but I am having the same difficulty translating that record too. I WISH I KNEW HOW TO CUT & PASTE ! (Johan Martin Johansen b. 27 Feb 1837, baptized 19 Mar 1837, Trondheim, son of Ane Maria Lorentzdatter and Johan Johansen Moe). Thanks for your kind assistance. |
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Borge
Veteran Moderator
Norway
1299 Posts |
Posted - 20/04/2021 : 10:33:02
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quote:
Originally posted by lizabethbibler
I have been busy assimilating this fantastic amount of information. Some questions have come up pertaining to my great great grandmother, Ane Maria Lorentzdatter who had a child with Johan Andreas Johansen Moe (Julianne Marie Johansdatter b. 24 Dec 1835, baptized 14 Feb 1836, Var Frue Kirke, Trondheim- my great grandmother). On April 8, Jackie posted a record of the birth and baptism of another child fathered by Johan Andreas Johansen Moe and born to Randi Andersdatter (Oline Andrea Johansdatter, b. 16 Feb 1840, baptized 15 Mar 1840, Var Frue Kirke, Trondheim). That record contained a picture of the church book and I noticed a large number of comments and notes written in the church book that are associated with that particular baptism. Quick link: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20050610020148
I have been working to translate those comments, presumably written by the priest or a church clerk, because I noticed Ane Marie Lorentzdatter’s name mentioned in this record. I think the priest is accusing Johan Johansen of something. I have several apps for translating words from Norwegian to English but if I cannot determine what the word is and spell it correctly, the app is useless. I think maybe I am trying to translate an old form of Norwegian using an app and dictionary that is only for the more modern language of Norway. Sometimes I type in a word to translate and the translation says “not found” in Norwegian and it automatically defaults to Danish.#129335;#8205;#9792;#65039;
I think the translation of these comments could be important and contain information about Johan Johansen Moe and his parents and also about Ane Maria Lorentzdatter. Both of these people are apparently my great great grandparents. In the last few days a relative has suggested an alternative Ane Marie Lorentzdatter so I need to get as many details as possible to make sure I have the right one. I would be very grateful if somebody can read that handwriting.
There is also a comment Jackie made just above this record concerning the baptism of a baby boy, Johan Martin Johansen, suggesting that the information contained in his baptism record might be something to consider. And might tell me what Johan Johansen was up to other than fathering children! I think she is correct but I am having the same difficulty translating that record too. I WISH I KNEW HOW TO CUT & PASTE ! (Johan Martin Johansen b. 27 Feb 1837, baptized 19 Mar 1837, Trondheim, son of Ane Maria Lorentzdatter and Johan Johansen Moe). Thanks for your kind assistance.
Here is my interpretation of the message, (not translated word by word)
Born and baptized 16. February 1840: Oline Andrea. - The father is bachelor and artilleryman N. 32 of the 7th Battery Johan Johnsen Moe, 27 years of age, born at Domkirken menighet, and confirmed at Melhus, Leinstrand,… then came to Trondheim and joined the the 7th Battery about 5 years ago and resides with? Ole Nøstan in Enkelskillingsveiten. The mother is widow Randi Andersdatter Aune born at Stadsbygd 17. October 1798. She was married to about 15 – 16 years ago to sailor Ole Gjermundsen Aune, who lost his life at sea some years ago. She also is lodging at Ole Nøstan’s place in Enkelskillingsveiten (I can’t figure out the last sentences, but it says “…..she is not receiving any ……
The note on the right page is challenging to read, and I can’t translate word by word, but what it talks about is two previous children Johan Johnsen was given as the father of, born to different girls. On the 14. February 1836 with the girl Anne Marie Lorentsdatter Dahlberg, and on 19. March 1837 with Anne Marie Lorentsdatter Wiig. The last one I think it says that he denied being the father of.
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Børge Solem |
Edited by - Borge on 20/04/2021 10:39:22 |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7848 Posts |
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lizabethbibler
Starting member
USA
10 Posts |
Posted - 20/04/2021 : 19:43:48
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| Thank you. With my limited understanding of the Norwegian language and my translation apps that are perhaps not the best, I was simply not able to understand the information. In another baptism record, Ane Marie was said to have come to Trondheim some years earlier and been in service first with a family in Domsognet (?) and next with a family in Bakklandet, but at the time of the birth of her first child,( my great grandmother, Julianne Marie Johansdatter) in December 1835, she was living with an unmarried man by the last name of Holtan in Fjordgaden who was a boatbuilder or something to do with boats or ships and the record says her baby was born at Holtan’s house. Ane’s second child was born a mere 14 months after her first. It is entirely possible that Holtan was the father of the second child that Johan Johansen Moe denied fathering. So, perhaps Johan was telling the truth. Thanks again! |
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Borge
Veteran Moderator
Norway
1299 Posts |
Posted - 20/04/2021 : 20:28:37
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It was quite common for people to be lodgers, and a large number of people could be living within the same walls as lodgers, even in the small houses in the less wealthy parts of the town. So living in someones house did not necessary mean thre was a «relationship», but you can imagine living close together might lead to this and that.
Also, I should mention; soldiers could not be punished by the church for comitting extramarital activities, as they were considdered to be the King’s men, and the church should not interfere with the King’s domain. |
Børge Solem |
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Searching for a Johan Johansen born 1813 i
