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KLeach
Medium member
Canada
169 Posts |
 Posted - 10/10/2013 : 10:03:34
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The information I have shows that Kristian Jensen/Jenssen (b.abt 1825 in Eidsvoll) had 5 children we know of with Olea Kristensdatter (b. abt 1824 Eidsvoll). The children were: Anton (1856) who we have little info about, Karl (30 Aug 1860), Julie (17 May 1862), Olaf (8 Apr 1864), and Anne Kristine (25 Sep 1869) all from Eidsvoll. I haven't located anything to indicate Kristian was either married to or had children with anyone else at this point.
Here they are in the 1875 census for Eidsvold:
http://digitalarkivet.no/cgi-win/webcens.exe?slag=visbase&filnamn=f70237&personpostnr=3014&merk=3014
In the 1865 census, are Kirstine and Kari Karoline's mother and maternal grandmother?
quote:
Originally posted by jkmarler
Here is Caroline Emilie's confirmation record, #23:
Kildeinformasjon: Akershus fylke, Eidsvoll i Eidsvoll, Klokkerbok nr. I 2 (1866-1871), Konfirmerte 1867, side 117.
Permanent sidelenke: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=496&idx_id=496&uid=ny&idx_side=-99
Here she is in the 1865 census living with her mother:
http://digitalarkivet.uib.no/cgi-win/WebCens.exe?slag=visbase&sidenr=15&filnamn=f60237&gardpostnr=1348&personpostnr=7458&merk=7458#ovre
It is at least possible that Kristian Jens. Bunæs is her father which means she would have been a half sister to Julia.
Kamilla Mathilde Pettersen's confirmation #19:
Source information: Oslo county, Jacob, Parish register (official) nr. 4 (1880-1894), Confirmation records 1890, page 82.
Permanent pagelink: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=5411&idx_id=5411&uid=ny&idx_side=-86
Kamilla Mathilde Pettersen in 1910 census:
http://digitalarkivet.arkivverket.no/ft/person/pf01036372001418
A daughter Karen Marie Pettersen #31 confirmation:
Source information: Oslo county, Jacob, Parish register (official) nr. F 0008 (1892-1924), Confirmation records 1896, page 48.
Permanent pagelink: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=1830&idx_id=1830&uid=ny&idx_side=-53
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
Posted - 10/10/2013 : 11:47:07
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Unfortunately, the dearth of records from Eidsvold is going to figure into your research in an increasingly harmful way.
For the generation you are exploring now it is less a problem, for their parents it will be pretty devastating and for the grandparents generation catastrophic. For the grandparents all you know now is there is a grandfather named Jens and one name Kristian / Kristen. You are going to have to explore all sorts of circumstantial evidence since the direct evidence is so lacking, weighing who is your relative and who might be your relative. Your research is going to come down to "invisible threads" that tie people together.
About your grandmother Julia, it is of interest that the 2 moves about which you are aware, both were to other family members (by 1900 to Karl Bunæs, 1905 to Olaf Bunæs). In her later life, at least, Julia was oriented to uniting with family. Perhaps a move to a relative at younger, more adventuresome age is also possible. How did she become acquainted with Olaus Pettersen, anyway?
In Eidsvold in the 1865 census there are 11 Christian / Kristian/ Christen / Kristen Jensons. Of these 11 only 5, ages 32-90 are of such an age as to be the father of someone born in 1851-2. One of the five is your Kristian Jens. (Of course, the 11 don't include anyone from any place else named Christian Jens just passing through Eidsvold in 1851-1852, or those who were of parental age in 1852 who died before 1865, etc.) Since Caroline Emilie's mother is listed as ug (unmarried) in 1865 (as opposed to e for widowed) and since you don't know when Kristian married Olia other than the indication by the birthdates of the children, it is possible that she is an illegitimate daughter of your Kristian and because of the records dearth, someone worth exploring.
When Olaus Pettersen died the dødsfallprotokol lists among his survivors 5 barn - 5 children of which 2 are not adult. One of the 2 not in their majority will be Olga your ancestor's half sister.
Who are the others? Your photo gives you a couple of names, 1885 census gives you a couple of names but who are the rest? The Karen Marie Pettersen born in Eidsvold would be an interesting look to see who her faddernes are, as would be for any of Olaus Pettersen's children with Caroline Emile.
Lastly, if this were my search, knowing how few connections you are likely to make in the previous generations, I can tell you my experience and intuition would be telling me to get after these folks. You are free, however, to search as you wish.
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KLeach
Medium member
Canada
169 Posts |
Posted - 10/10/2013 : 22:04:48
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Thank you for all your background work. I really appreciate it. I have to start exploring other, less familiar information options, perhaps related to land ownership, probate, and so on. Any suggestions on starting places?
Next, given the parish fire from Eidsvoll around 1877, would it be worthwhile to look at hiring a genealogist on the Norwegian side of the pond? Do I ask directly at the archives or is there a better place to ask?
My understanding from earlier explorations is that between the 1801 and the 1865 Norwegian census, that any census taken did not include names of individuals. Is this true, or if I pay for a census from those years, that the name information will be provided?
Again, many thanks.
quote:
Originally posted by jkmarler
Unfortunately, the dearth of records from Eidsvold is going to figure into your research in an increasingly harmful way.
For the generation you are exploring now it is less a problem, for their parents it will be pretty devastating and for the grandparents generation catastrophic. For the grandparents all you know now is there is a grandfather named Jens and one name Kristian / Kristen. You are going to have to explore all sorts of circumstantial evidence since the direct evidence is so lacking, weighing who is your relative and who might be your relative. Your research is going to come down to "invisible threads" that tie people together.
About your grandmother Julia, it is of interest that the 2 moves about which you are aware, both were to other family members (by 1900 to Karl Bunæs, 1905 to Olaf Bunæs). In her later life, at least, Julia was oriented to uniting with family. Perhaps a move to a relative at younger, more adventuresome age is also possible. How did she become acquainted with Olaus Pettersen, anyway?
In Eidsvold in the 1865 census there are 11 Christian / Kristian/ Christen / Kristen Jensons. Of these 11 only 5, ages 32-90 are of such an age as to be the father of someone born in 1851-2. One of the five is your Kristian Jens. (Of course, the 11 don't include anyone from any place else named Christian Jens just passing through Eidsvold in 1851-1852, or those who were of parental age in 1852 who died before 1865, etc.) Since Caroline Emilie's mother is listed as ug (unmarried) in 1865 (as opposed to e for widowed) and since you don't know when Kristian married Olia other than the indication by the birthdates of the children, it is possible that she is an illegitimate daughter of your Kristian and because of the records dearth, someone worth exploring.
When Olaus Pettersen died the dødsfallprotokol lists among his survivors 5 barn - 5 children of which 2 are not adult. One of the 2 not in their majority will be Olga your ancestor's half sister.
Who are the others? Your photo gives you a couple of names, 1885 census gives you a couple of names but who are the rest? The Karen Marie Pettersen born in Eidsvold would be an interesting look to see who her faddernes are, as would be for any of Olaus Pettersen's children with Caroline Emile.
Lastly, if this were my search, knowing how few connections you are likely to make in the previous generations, I can tell you my experience and intuition would be telling me to get after these folks. You are free, however, to search as you wish.
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
Posted - 11/10/2013 : 08:52:38
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Here is the death of wife Karoline Emilie Kristensdatter b 1852 #4:
Kildeinformasjon: Akershus fylke, Langset i Eidsvoll, Klokkerbok nr. II 2 (1877-1897), Døde og begravede 1885, side 103.
Permanent sidelenke: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=2924&idx_id=2924&uid=ny&idx_side=-103
There are probate registers for Eidsvold at the digitalarkivet. I don't know a lot about them myself but dødsfallprotokol is about the easiest to read. These registers are like a mini estate record, a basic minimal list of survivors who would be legatees if the person had an estate. They are arranged chronologically by date of death, few are indexed. Skiftelodningsprotokol is the record which deals with the care of children of the deceased and their guardians and their legacy (if there is some.) The most comprehensive is the skifte, also the hardest to read and comprehend (for me at least) includes features found in US estates like inventories of valuable personal and real property, lists of creditors and what they're owed and the like. The older (say before 1850s) skifte include all aspects of the estate settlement, care of children, settlements, etc. Some have indexes, but a lot are not indexed.
There are only 4 or 5 fylke in the current real estate registers online. I assume as the work is done more will be added. In the ones I've seen the records are arranged farm by farm, alphabetically. I didn't see Akershus on the list. The registers tell chronologically the ownership of the farm, obligations against the farm, kar against the farm, etc.
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
Posted - 11/10/2013 : 09:10:20
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Invisible threads, man....
Here is the baptism of Hilda Elise daughter of Olaus and Karoline Emilie # 12 in girls half of page, pige Julie Kristiansdatter Bunæs is one of the faddernes:
Kildeinformasjon: Akershus fylke, Langset i Eidsvoll, Klokkerbok nr. II 2 (1877-1897), Fødte og døpte 1884, side 43.
Permanent sidelenke: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=2924&idx_id=2924&uid=ny&idx_side=-45
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Edited by - jkmarler on 12/10/2013 03:43:00 |
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KLeach
Medium member
Canada
169 Posts |
Posted - 12/10/2013 : 02:59:51
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Deciphering names...Birthplace Drengsrud, perhaps? Fadderness: Solveig Thorvald Pettersen ______, ________ Kirstine/Kristine Eriksdatter, Julie Kristiansdatter Bunaes, ____ ____ Haus__ Bjerknaes eie, ____ ____ Andersen? ___, ____.
quote:
Originally posted by jkmarler
Invisible threads, man....
Here is the baptism of Hilda Elise daughter of Olaus and Karoline Emilie # 12 in girls half of page, pige Julia Kristiansdatter Bunæs is one of the faddernes:
Kildeinformasjon: Akershus fylke, Langset i Eidsvoll, Klokkerbok nr. II 2 (1877-1897), Fødte og døpte 1884, side 43.
Permanent sidelenke: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=2924&idx_id=2924&uid=ny&idx_side=-45
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
Posted - 12/10/2013 : 03:29:19
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The farm is Dytterud.
the faddernes (my interpretation)
Selvier Thorvald Pedersen Mins___
H (I think for hustru) ______ Kristine Eriksdtr
Pige Julie Kristiansdtr Bunæs
Husman Anders Hansen Bjerknæseie
Bachelor Ludvig Anderson Min_____ |
Edited by - jkmarler on 12/10/2013 03:39:14 |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
Posted - 12/10/2013 : 03:46:27
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I'm not posting the links but I will tell you that there is a dødsfallprotokol for Karoline Emilie Pettersen and it lists all her children with Olaus Pettersen.
Here is the search engine for the probate records. The only thing you have to do is fill in the county (this case Akershus) and hit submit and you should get a list of all the parishes and the types of records and dates of each. You have Karoline's death date:
http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:sk_read |
Edited by - jkmarler on 12/10/2013 03:50:42 |
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KLeach
Medium member
Canada
169 Posts |
Posted - 12/10/2013 : 04:16:49
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http://arkivverket.no/URN:sk_read/27724/71/
Found it!
Should I leave the children's names as Pettersen (the way they are listed in the census) or would it be more correct to use Olausdtr?
Was the probate held on the 19th?
Under Petra's name, is Terese spelled Teresse? What is the name under Teresse?
quote:
Originally posted by jkmarler
I'm not posting the links but I will tell you that there is a dødsfallprotokol for Karoline Emilie Pettersen and it lists all her children with Olaus Pettersen.
Here is the search engine for the probate records. The only thing you have to do is fill in the county (this case Akershus) and hit submit and you should get a list of all the parishes and the types of records and dates of each. You have Karoline's death date:
http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:sk_read
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
Posted - 12/10/2013 : 04:36:50
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Should I leave the children's names as Pettersen (the way they are listed in the census) or would it be more correct to use Olausdtr?
The lensman who kept the dødsfallprotokol recorded them as "Olausdtr"--perhaps following the customary practice. But the family seems to have been following an inherited surname in later years of Pettersen. Olausdtr could be kept as an additional middle name making Pettersen as the last name, or using one or the other with an additional note about the other name in the AKA section. I
Was the probate held on the 19th?
I don't know enough to know if there was a formal full estate settlement for Karoline. That date may be simply the date the lensman put it in the books.
Under Petra's name, is Terese spelled Teresse?
I think Terese.
What is the name under Teresse?
That is Karen Marie whose confirmation is linked to in an earlier post. The confirmation gave her birthplace as Eidsvold, that's why I was looking there.
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KLeach
Medium member
Canada
169 Posts |
Posted - 12/10/2013 : 07:17:30
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http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=5790&idx_id=5790&uid=ny&idx_side=-15
Here is the birth and baptismal record for Petra Kristine (#93). Would Oslo also be her place of birth, or Eidsvold like the others? I was not able to find an entry in the Eidsvoll parish registers for Petra Kristine, but there are 2 mentioned in the 1900 census 0301 Kristiania - 1 from Enebak and the other Lier, both with an 1878 birthdate.
Faddernes: Julianne ____, Birgitte Eriksen?, Johan Pettersen, Carl Larsen?, and _______ _______.
quote:
Originally posted by jkmarler
Should I leave the children's names as Pettersen (the way they are listed in the census) or would it be more correct to use Olausdtr?
The lensman who kept the dødsfallprotokol recorded them as "Olausdtr"--perhaps following the customary practice. But the family seems to have been following an inherited surname in later years of Pettersen. Olausdtr could be kept as an additional middle name making Pettersen as the last name, or using one or the other with an additional note about the other name in the AKA section. I
Was the probate held on the 19th?
I don't know enough to know if there was a formal full estate settlement for Karoline. That date may be simply the date the lensman put it in the books.
Under Petra's name, is Terese spelled Teresse?
I think Terese.
What is the name under Teresse?
That is Karen Marie whose confirmation is linked to in an earlier post. The confirmation gave her birthplace as Eidsvold, that's why I was looking there.
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KLeach
Medium member
Canada
169 Posts |
Posted - 12/10/2013 : 07:55:53
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The year is correct, and the father's name, but the girl's name here appears to be Signe Therese. The Eidsvoll probate register (for Jan 17/19) lists her as Terese Johanna. Is this the correct person?
http://arkivverket.no/URN:sk_read/27724/71/
quote:
Originally posted by jkmarler
quote:
Originally posted by KLeach
I wasn't sure what it means to be an "uægte" child.
[quote]Originally posted by eibache
Most likely the baptismal record for Therese, an "uægte" child, #246 - father Olaus Pedersen, mother Johanne Christine Jensen.
Uægte means illegitimate, that is the parents weren't married at the time of the birth.
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eibache
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
6495 Posts |
Posted - 12/10/2013 : 09:46:56
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quote:
Would Oslo also be her place of birth, or Eidsvold like the others?
- being baptized in Grønland and psrents living in Smedgaten 2, she was clearly born in Oslo.
Witnesses: Johanne Trondsen, Birgitte Eriksen, shoemaker Johan Pettersen, farmer Carl Larsen, farmhand Joh. Hansen.
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Einar |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
Posted - 12/10/2013 : 13:45:20
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quote:
Originally posted by KLeach
The year is correct, and the father's name, but the girl's name here appears to be Signe Therese. The Eidsvoll probate register (for Jan 17/19) lists her as Terese Johanna. Is this the correct person?
http://arkivverket.no/URN:sk_read/27724/71/
quote:
Originally posted by jkmarler
quote:
Originally posted by KLeach
I wasn't sure what it means to be an "uægte" child.
[quote]Originally posted by eibache
Most likely the baptismal record for Therese, an "uægte" child, #246 - father Olaus Pedersen, mother Johanne Christine Jensen.
Uægte means illegitimate, that is the parents weren't married at the time of the birth.
Take a look at the baptism of Karen Marie in Eidsvol, the parents' marriage date is given.... |
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KLeach
Medium member
Canada
169 Posts |
Posted - 12/10/2013 : 16:41:08
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Marriage date 25 April 1875 in Oslo county, Grønland.
What about the name Signe Therese vs. Terese Johanna?
quote:
Originally posted by jkmarler
quote:
Originally posted by KLeach
The year is correct, and the father's name, but the girl's name here appears to be Signe Therese. The Eidsvoll probate register (for Jan 17/19) lists her as Terese Johanna. Is this the correct person?
http://arkivverket.no/URN:sk_read/27724/71/
quote:
Originally posted by jkmarler
quote:
Originally posted by KLeach
I wasn't sure what it means to be an "uægte" child.
[quote]Originally posted by eibache
Most likely the baptismal record for Therese, an "uægte" child, #246 - father Olaus Pedersen, mother Johanne Christine Jensen.
Uægte means illegitimate, that is the parents weren't married at the time of the birth.
Take a look at the baptism of Karen Marie in Eidsvol, the parents' marriage date is given....
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Pettersen/Smedstad/Olsen/Rodvald/Svedjan/Bunaes
