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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9301 Posts |
 Posted - 19/05/2012 : 06:17:48
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| You seem to be fairly certain that Charles was born on 09 June 1834 in Norway in spite of the various conflicting bits of information that he could have been born in Prussia or Sweden and in 1835. Where does the date you have used come from. |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
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jwiborg
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
4961 Posts |
Posted - 19/05/2012 : 14:34:53
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Fyi, I found a a Carl born 09 June 1835 in Oslo:
#38, Carl Halfdan Schilling
Birth Date: 09 Jun 1835
Christening: 09 Jul 1835, Garnison Menighet, Oslo, Akershus, Norway
Parents: Rittmester Gottlieb Christopher Adolph Schilling & Eleonore Sophie Cathrine Schilling nee Berg
Source: Oslo county, Garnisonsmenigheten, Parish register (official) nr. 6 (1828-1841), Birth and baptism records men 1835, page 51.
Unfortunately, Karl Halfdan Schilling was a painter, and died i Belgium.
Jan Peter |
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JaneC
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3020 Posts |
Posted - 19/05/2012 : 16:50:45
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I am back (having now had my night's sleep), and I am delighted to see the new suggestions and feedback. This is wonderful. Thank you - all THREE OF YOU - so much!!!
It is a problem that there are so many Charles Wilsons in Brooklyn. This website (link below) shows what is known about "this" Charles in Brooklyn, including a reference to the confusing nature of the records, given that so many men with the same name lived in Brooklyn during the same years. The street address/area of Brooklyn is one way that has been used to "sort them out."
Link: http://www.skippywilson.com/charles1.html
You ask where does the birth date come from: This is "family knowledge." The 1900 census states "Jun 1935." It is common to have a discrepancy in the year - unfortunately! Only one cousin, as far as I know, "knows" Oslo is the birth place. "Norway" appears on a number of records also, as you noted.
Whether the birth date is also shown on the death certificate I am feeling uncertain - I will check. However, Charles did not give his family a clear picture of his roots. Sometimes the person filling out a death certificate is not the best source of information; I have found huge inaccuracies in death certificates for people for whom the facts are well established. In the sweep to find information about Charles, the family statement that his birth is "09 June 1834 in Norway" is perhaps more likely to be accurate than the death certificate. But still, I will double check that. I see your point - that it is important to establish the LEVEL OF CERTAINTY about the birth date!
Each clue is important especially in this case!
The search engine for the Brooklyn Daily Eagle is a GOLD MINE!!! It will take some time to go through it all. (Oh so many Charles Wilsons!) I have begun. : D
Thank you for double checking the Family Search website. Even though I searched it, it is very possible one of you have some techniques for using the database that might have turned him up - even though I myself did not find him.
Another comment, above, "If he was named for his father as surmised and his last name was originally Olsen, it points to the possibility that his father's given name was Ole. " Good point, and I did consider whether that was a possible confusion in the family in America. Why did I discard that idea? Let me think...His name is "Charles." He is Norwegian. Problem right there - Charles is not a Norwegian name. His death certificate says his father's name is "Charles." Did he specifically tell his offspring/others that his father's name was CHARLES? I find that hard to believe. That's why I was trying to think why the death certificate names the father as Charles. Hence, being "named for his father" is only a guess on my part to answer this question. But if his father's name is Ole, then where does "Charles" on the death certificate come from? I couldn't think of an answer to that...maybe you can.
Working from what is known back, it seems reasonable to accept the death certificate statement that the father's name was Charles and look either for the name Charles in Norway (good luck to us) or look for a Norwegian equivalent.
I am sorry so much is uncertain and "fuzzy."
Jan Peter, Karl Halfdan Schilling was such a good possibility!!! And you had to track him down and find his later life to rule him out. All that work by you was very valuable - even if he is the wrong guy in the end.
Okay, you all have given me quite a bit of homework, so I'll work on it, and check back to see if you are loading on more!
Thank you again, each of you, for all the searching, the expertise, the thoughtful probing of the situation, and the new leads.... |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
Posted - 19/05/2012 : 17:48:30
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Here is one of the Carl Olsen in the baptismal index at www.familysearch.org:
Name: Carl Anthonius Olesen
Gender: Male
Baptism/Christening Date: 26 Dec 1835
Baptism/Christening Place: KONGSBERG, BUSKERUD, NORWAY
Birth Date: 09 Jun 1835
Birth Place:
Death Date:
Name Note:
Race:
Father's Name: Ole Sandersen
Father's Birthplace:
Father's Age:
Mother's Name: Ingeborg Marie Anthaniusdr
Mother's Birthplace:
Mother's Age:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C42859-4
System Origin: Norway-VR
Source Film Number: 123986
Reference Number: 2:QT10N1
Source Citation
"Norway, Baptisms, 1634-1927," index, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/N4YT-48R : accessed 19 May 2012), Carl Anthonius Olesen, 1835.
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Birthdate is 9 June but in 1835 & he is not born in Oslo |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
Posted - 19/05/2012 : 18:04:06
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quote:
Originally posted by JaneC
An old family photo of him has a handwritten note on the back; a hard-to-read word appears in front of the word OSLO, that could say Christiansted? Christiansand? or Christiania? The cousin who owns the photo was told Charles's birth place was Oslo.
There is a searchable database on Norwegian photographers. If it's a studio picture and you know the name of the photographer search here:
http://www.nb.no/pm_old/english.php
Christiania is the "old" name of Oslo. |
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JaneC
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3020 Posts |
Posted - 19/05/2012 : 18:15:51
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Oh my goodness!!!
I think he is a VERY GOOD CANDIDATE! I did not see him myself before...
I have written to the person I am helping with hopes he will be able to figure out how to register on this forum. We're not sure what the problem is. Or that he will write to me a note that I can post for him.
I think the discrepancy in birth year of one year is pretty normal - that does not disturb me - I have seen it so often. The father's name is Ole...it's possible.
Only one cousin stated Charles's birth place as Oslo, so again, the alternate birth place is possible. So often immigrants to America said "I came from XXXX city," naming a big city in their homeland, when really that city is not their actual birth place. I wish they didn't do this, but they did.
I suppose the next step is to try to find Carl Anthonius Olesen in his later life...and I will try.
Again many many thanks! I am smiling! : D |
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JaneC
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3020 Posts |
Posted - 19/05/2012 : 18:21:07
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"There is a searchable database on Norwegian photographers. If it's a studio picture and you know the name of the photographer search here"
I had not thought of that. It's a good idea!
If the place where the photo was taken can be shown to be another place - not Oslo - then that would be a new clue, a new possible hometown, or a town that ties in with Carl Anthonius Olesen.
If the place is Oslo, then we still don't know that he is surely born there.
It's worth a try! |
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JaneC
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3020 Posts |
Posted - 19/05/2012 : 18:52:29
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Here is a Carl born 19 June 1834 ( instead of 09 June .... )
What I like about him is that he is in Kristiansund (..."An old family photo of him has a handwritten note on the back; a hard-to-read word appears in front of the word OSLO, that could say Christiansted? Christiansand? or Christiania...")
Name: Carl Johan Olsen
Gender: Male
Baptism/Christening Date: 23 Sep 1834
Baptism/Christening Place: KRISTIANSUND, MORE OG ROMSDAL, NORWAY
Birth Date: 19 Jun 1834
Birth Place:
Death Date:
Name Note:
Race:
Father's Name: Ole Hammer
Father's Birthplace:
Father's Age:
Mother's Name: Karen Kirstine Abrahamsdr
Mother's Birthplace:
Mother's Age:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C42203-1
System Origin: Norway-ODM
Source Film Number: 124839
So much to do....!
The reason I returned to Family Search just now: since you turned up the right birth day and month by allowing for the father to be "Ole" on Family Search, I thought I would do the same and look again with that in mind... |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
Posted - 19/05/2012 : 19:08:34
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This birth location is much more northerly than Oslo and also is on the western coast of Norway.
He is likeable also because in your list of children there is one called "Charles Johan, Jr." where did the Johan come from?
In looking at the 1900 census listing, Charles is listed as arriving in US in 1862 but also Na which means naturalized citizen--there may be some records on this naturalization and depending on when it was done it might include the date and name of port of his arrival in US.
Were these folks always Methodist? Or did they go to other churches? I did check for Charles Wilson in the death / funeral records of the Norwegian Seamen's church in the database at the digitalarkivet but did not find him. |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
Posted - 19/05/2012 : 19:21:14
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Here is the birth baptism of the Carl Johan Olsen you found:
Source information: Møre og Romsdal county, Kristiansund, Parish register (official) nr. 572A06 (1832-1842), Birth and baptism records 1834, page 16.
Permanent pagelink: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=16106&idx_id=16106&uid=ny&idx_side=-16
Unfortunately, there is a small cross by the entry which is usually put on the records of a person who didn't survive.
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JaneC
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3020 Posts |
Posted - 19/05/2012 : 20:10:44
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Checking back, and so exciting to find your further thoughts and research ... !
About this: Carl Johan Olsen is a likeable candidate because one of his children is named Charles John, Jr. Yes, I agree!
I do not know where the "John" in the middle name came from. The man I am helping may know although I doubt it. I heard from him yesterday afternoon so it is not so long, not at all, that we have not heard from him.
Charles's son Charles John Jr. had a grandfather named John (his mother's father was John Rheinhardt. His mother's mother was Catharine Lower.)
The name could come from Charles himself though. If that is true - then we are looking for Carl Johan (or Klaus Johannes or Carolus etc). I did not think of it earlier - thank you for bringing this up!
About he is naturalized - the point is a good one. Again I must have the man I am helping go back to the records to answer the question. I have been assuming that if the naturalization paper stated the date of arrival, he would not be unsure of the date of arrival...but sometimes people overlook things.
About the church records...I do not know. Thank you so much for checking Norwegian Seaman's church. Another really good idea!
About the Carl Johan Olsen in Kristiansund, it is so good to look at the actual record. I'm glad you posted it! Yes, maybe he died - although a lot of the names on that page seem to have the little cross and sometimes it looks like #
I still like Carl Anthonius Olesen quite a alot - I love that birth date! But also the idea of "Carl Johan" has now colored my thinking...
Ancestry.com has this record:
Norway Marriages
Name: Carl Johan Olsen
Age: 25 years
Gender: Male
Birth Date: Ca.1834
Marriage Date: 3 jun 1859
Marriage Place: Eiker, Buskerud, Norway
Spouse: Birthe Marie Larsdr
Spouse's Age: 23 years
Spouse's Gender: Female
Spouse's Birth Date: Ca.1836
Father: Ole Olsen
Spouse's Father: Lars Olsen
I can believe Charles Wilson had a first wife at home in Norway - maybe not but it would be possible. De certainly did not divulge much information about his life before America!
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
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JaneC
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3020 Posts |
Posted - 19/05/2012 : 21:23:45
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| Thank you for posting that. : D |
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