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Richard Schumacher
Junior member
USA
53 Posts |
 Posted - 11/11/2008 : 20:53:25
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I am posting this as a new search even though she got included in earliers posts. Since then, I have sorted out loose ends and verified documentation and do not want the previous information to misslead anyone.
Christie Louisa Mattis married a "Peter Ondell" in Whitewater, Walworth County, Wisconsin on April 18,1851. After examining the original document that had hand writting/legibility questions, I determined the date was correct since that was within the period the minister was active. Peter's last name was probably changed from the traditional Norwegian at that time.
She apparently had 4 children between 1851 and 1857, but no birth records are available for that area (Milwaukee and Walworth Co.) at that time. One is my g-grandmother. The local genealogists in the area have said that birth and death records were very rare at that time, but the ministers usually kept good marriage records. The local Walworth County church christening records do not exist now. The area was very recently settled and church services were held in homes.There is no verified record of where or if 2 of the children were born in Milwaukee.
A subsequent 1860 U.S. census with naming/spelling/legibity inaccuraies list her as born about 1814 in Norway.
Using the LDS site, I found a Lovise Matiasen, christened July 11, 1814 in Forde, Sogn og Fjordane, and her apparent parents. (Matias Johanssen Kleppe and Anna Susanne Madsdatter - recently corrected 11/12/2008).
I am trying verify if this is my Christie Louisa Mattis. I have not found any other records on immigration prior to 1851 or any information on her existance in Norway after her birth in about 1814. The man she married in 1851 immigrated before 1850 and I also do not have any information on the actual date because of the variations in the U.S. Census dates.
She was last listed in the 1860 U.S. Census as "Chastain Ollendorf". She was never documented after that and Peter married again in 1869. - She may have died or returned to Norway as some of my other ancestors did for a period.
I appreciate any help or direction. I can fumble through the old Norwegian script on documents, but if the index is not digitized/indexed, I seem to get no where unless it jumps out at me.
I thank you in advance.
Richard Schumacher
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Edited by - Richard Schumacher on 12/11/2008 18:27:00 |
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Richard Schumacher
Junior member
USA
53 Posts |
Posted - 12/11/2008 : 18:30:48
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Please note that I corrected a posting error in the first post. I mistakenly listed the wrong parents for the Lovise Mattis that I am trying to verify the information on.
Sorry for the mistake and I thank you for any direction.
Dick |
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Kåarto
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
5861 Posts |
Posted - 12/11/2008 : 19:36:48
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Mathias Johansen Kleppe married Anna Susanna Madsdatter in Førde municipality in Sogn& Fjordane county Nov. 15. 1807, right page left column, 8. line, 5. copul.../wedding after headline
1807 WBrun,
they were engaged oct. 4.
(Kersti) Lovise was bap. Lovise on July 11. 1814, born to Mathias Johansen Kleppe and Anna Susanna Madsdatter, right page for girls, 14. line from bottom Lovise Juli 11
Kåre |
Edited by - Kåarto on 12/11/2008 19:54:06 |
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eibache
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
6495 Posts |
Posted - 12/11/2008 : 19:46:30
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Lovises baptismal record is found on the right hand page here
as it is evident she was not baptized Christie Lovisa (nor Christine/Christina/Christin or similar) and it seems strange if the two are one and the same even though their last name Mattis/Mathisdatter could be used to indicate that.
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Einar |
Edited by - eibache on 13/11/2008 06:51:42 |
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Richard Schumacher
Junior member
USA
53 Posts |
Posted - 12/11/2008 : 20:56:25
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eibache -
I found the baptism record for Lovise/Louise.
I agree with your thoughts about the naming, which is why I am trying to determine if she actually is the person on the Wisconsin marriage certificate. If I could find that she eventually immigrated to the U.S. or Canada, she could be the same person since, in the U.S. at that time different "first/surnames" were commonly used. Some of my relatives went by both Betsey and Mary as commonly used names.
Regarding Lovise, I cannot find a death record in the U.S. or any other records for her in Norway. Since she married at the age of 37 in Wiscinsin, I assume she may have been married earlier and the "Mattis" last name could have been a married name since family names got lost in the immigration and record keeping practices.
I would like to be able to find some documentation to give me confidence in the findings.
It is too easy to fall into the trap of just picking up information from the internet and reach the wrong conclusion. - My mother is Norwegian and Swedish and I can find information on the internet that shows she was related several ways to Hakon Magnussen, which leads to Mark Anthony (???). I do not want to fall into that trap. |
Edited by - Richard Schumacher on 12/11/2008 21:10:54 |
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eibache
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
6495 Posts |
Posted - 12/11/2008 : 22:05:33
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Lovise should have been confirmed 1829/30, did not find her, but she had a sister Pernille, 15 years old confirmed 1830, parents Mattis and Susanne, see #38
Did not find Pernilles baptismal record in Førde, nor did I find any other children born 1807 - 1814 - strange. |
Einar |
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Richard Schumacher
Junior member
USA
53 Posts |
Posted - 12/11/2008 : 22:58:13
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I did find two older siblings of Lovise (Anna Maria - b.1816 and Johannes Andeas - b. 1818) by searching Digitalarkivet for children of Matias in Førde.
I guess it is possible she died early. That is why I am looking for later locations in Norway or immigration records. During that period, many people emmigrated to Canada and traveled to Wisconsin by train and/or water. All my ancestors (another branch of the family tree) from Ringebu went to Black River Falls, Wisconsin by rail before going north by wagon or possibly train. I have not been sucessful using immigration records.
I think I found the location of where Chrtistine Lousia Mattis lived in 1860 after her 1851 marriage. It took old county property maps, modern aerial maps, some surveying background and a GPS unit. Since her husband moved in 1888, the farm site was covered with 60 foot high trees, but one location seemed to fit.
I suspect the Louise Mattis may have be married previously since she was 37 when she married my gg-grandfather in 1851. - That adds more complications to the 15 year old puzzle I have been working on.
Thank you for your efforts and comments.
Dick |
Edited by - Richard Schumacher on 22/11/2008 23:43:32 |
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Kåarto
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
5861 Posts |
Posted - 12/11/2008 : 23:44:49
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Both parents died in Norway, Susanne Madsdatter Kleppe age 43 in 1826 #69 and the father Matias Johansen Kleppe age 71 in 1834 #20
No Lovise Matiasdatter in Førde according the 1865 census.
Kåre |
Edited by - Kåarto on 13/11/2008 07:15:37 |
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Richard Schumacher
Junior member
USA
53 Posts |
Posted - 23/11/2008 : 00:04:23
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Kåre -
Thank you for your efforts.
Since I have not found any information on a Louse Mattis (or Chtirstie Louise Mattis) and alternate spellings in Norway, I have to assume the one I found either died in Norway or emmigrated without any Norwegian records.
The Louise I found may have moved since her parents died when she was young (12 when the mother died and 20 when the father died).
Just another possibility to add to the 15 year old list. Logically, I should be able to find records in the U.S., but they were very poor at that time and not like Norwegian records.
eibach -
You information is interesting. There may have been a difference in the names (Pernilles in contrast to Lovisa), but the times and parent names fit well. It is remotely possible they are the same person or Louise died very young and Pernilles was a slighly older sibling that may have been used Louise later in life. - Thank you for the information to add to the possibliltes list.
Dick |
Edited by - Richard Schumacher on 23/11/2008 04:03:13 |
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Richard Schumacher
Junior member
USA
53 Posts |
Posted - 07/12/2008 : 05:29:24
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Kåre and eibach - thank you for the guidance.
I did find the records on Louise/Lovise parents' deaths. One thing I also discoverd was that the Penille discovered by eibach lived on Kvamme farm in 1865 on Forde, where her mother lived in 1807.
I found a Perille Mathiasdatter living on the Kvamme in the 1865 census. This eliminates the possibility of Pernille being the same person as Louise since her children were born in the 1850's.
One question I have is about the naming and "nick-names" or casual names in Norwegian families. Is "Mary" often used in this way?
The reason I ask is that Louise was listed on the 1860 U.S. Census as living with her husband, Peter Ondell, in Leon county, Wisconsin. She disappeared after that. In about 1862, a Mary Ondell was committed to the State Hospital in Wisconsin and was under the state control until about 1890. At that time, commitement was an easy process and could have been for a number of reasons. Leon county in Wisconsin paid for her care every year. There was only one Ondell family in Leon county.
Louise's husband Peter Ondell married in 1869 to a Betsey Olson. After the marriage, she went by the name of Mary in all rrecords, but the name of Betsey was used on her death certificate in 1915.
The possible use of Mary as a "nickname" could explain the location of Louise after 1860 and the inability to get any records from the other part of the family, that are descendants of Louise, as my g-g-grandmother is. They seem to know much about the locations where the other children of Louise lived for many years, including photos of the buildings and streets that were names after the Ondell family.
I have tried to avoid the old family background, but the of "Mary" as as a casual name could explain the situation. |
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Christie Louisa Mattis - b. abt1814 - Norway
