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eibache
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
6495 Posts |
 Posted - 30/11/2008 : 21:06:11
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Johan Jensen was born March 19 1830 and baptized March 28, see #12
his parents were Jens Jensen, Linholteie and Marthe Enersdatter. they married Dec 27 1827, see
#27
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Einar |
Edited by - eibache on 30/11/2008 21:13:40 |
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crymisty
Medium member
USA
87 Posts |
Posted - 30/11/2008 : 21:06:47
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I did not know about the move, nor had I dug for their marriage record. The one day discrepancy is not an issue I am sure on the b.d, Maii 13, is most likely correct. These folks were past retirement age, when the little ones were left on their doorstep. My g-father as informant, certainly could have errored by 1 day for bd, and gotten the day right, but not the month for their wedding.
In the marriage record he is 24, and she 29. Again, confirming what I do know to be fact: she was 5 years older than he approx.
So, I am sure that is also the right record that you found for their marriage. The census taker errored in 1865, reversing their ages.
If he and his brother were mining together, before immigrating; then logically I should be able to find a census record for him in Eigersund, in 1865 too. I just need to give a little thought as to what given name to look for. I will be back to ask for help, on names in records you provided, when I get to them. Hard ones for me to read!
Mange Tusen Takk! |
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crymisty
Medium member
USA
87 Posts |
Posted - 30/11/2008 : 21:41:08
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Thanks for the correction Eibache, and once again for finding so much with so little. It was Johan via the marriage record that had an association with the farm Grundseth, not his wife's baptism. I am 'getting tangled up' if I don't look at my own notes. We must have been posting at the same time.
Can you tell me, if you think that either the Selvig or Carlson surnames, could somehow be associated with hunting seals? That would be helpful. |
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crymisty
Medium member
USA
87 Posts |
Posted - 01/12/2008 : 09:16:24
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Kåre & Eibache
Thank you so much for the heads up on the Market place! It provided the common thread for many of the places these older descendants of the in-laws keep mentioning, Grundset market (Grundsetmart'n) in Elverum municipality.
Gudbrandsdal/Gudbrandsdalen, Sweden, ‘Vang’ now Hamar, & Loten all have (had) in common the use of 'Grundset market'. These folks would mention all these different places, and then tell me that they all came from the same place!
Gudbrandsdal was the one I couldn't make the connection to, because it is in Oppland. The folks I spoke to, also put an 'l' in it, making it 'Guldbrandsdalen', of which there are many farms also of the same name.
'Sel' most likely the municipality, also Oppland + vik= bay, inlet. The most often alternate spelling for the surname 'Selvig' in old records, mainly court records, is Selvit or Selvik (an area of heavy mining & quarries, and copper works at one time). Now knowing this, the ‘Selvig’ probably does not fit into the picture with Bernhard Peterson and family. I won’t mention that name again in this thread.
The folks that told me the name was derived from seal hunter, were obviously wrong, but may have helped. They as I guessed, thought what they heard referenced Grundseth; more likely was talk about Carlson, which could be derived from Karlsoy or Karlsø, Troms again. Sea Sami people I think, not ‘seal hunters’. Though that they were.
Please don’t do any more lookups for me. I can’t come back and take the time right now to look thru all the wonderful records you found; it makes me feel guilty when that happens. I have to do the data entry on another project so that it stays on track. You have given me more than enough to get me started.
And thanks so much again for helping me connect some really fuzzy dots. It will make further research on this line easier when I can devote time to it. All Ellen wanted was the where; I was hopeful I’d find a thread and I think I have.
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eibache
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
6495 Posts |
Posted - 01/12/2008 : 10:37:20
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quote:
Can you tell me, if you think that either the Selvig or Carlson surnames, could somehow be associated with hunting seals?
Selvig is derived from a farm name, Carlson = son of Carl.
The farm name Selvig could well stem from a combination of Sel = seal and vig = cove - meaning a cove where the seals had their resting place.
If the farm is situated in the inland it might very well be an indication of the place where willows = selje used to grow.
If you are looking for farm names in Norway use O.Rygh
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Einar |
Edited by - eibache on 01/12/2008 10:39:22 |
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crymisty
Medium member
USA
87 Posts |
Posted - 01/12/2008 : 21:01:43
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I had found that Karlsoy or Karlsø, Troms, is so named for 'son of Carl'. Missed adding that in my post. Thank you once again for confirmaion. Also appreciate your stub out of Selvig. It could be a farm, as you say, but also could be adapted from combing Sel, in reference to the municipality. This is significant, given that the occupations of the Selvigs (that I know of), in this country were largely in the construction industry or masons. Like many they adopted farming, but they didn't appear to come here as farmers. Mine and most of the others I'm aware of - may have all come from Buskerud & in that local, I didn't find a farm by that name. Then again, I might not be searching correct. Proving that needs yet to be done & shouldn't be further followed up in this thread. The # of people using Selvig/Selvit/Selvik surname at the same time as my g-grandather is relatively small. Carlson on the other hand is a different story. Appreciate the link!
The above, better explains the search 'outside of farm names'. |
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crymisty
Medium member
USA
87 Posts |
Posted - 01/12/2008 : 21:21:12
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| I decided to check one more time using your link, there is a farm by that name in Buskerud: Sæl søndre. As many times as the 'æ' has been my gotcha, you would think I would learn. I will follow that up when I research this line. Thank you again! |
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crymisty
Medium member
USA
87 Posts |
Posted - 03/12/2008 : 19:52:44
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In another thread I noted that Jan Peter, posted: 'Klingen sogn has also been called Sævik sogn, I believe.' She was correct ( per the paragraph that follows taken from LDS) and may also have provided another lead as to the origination of the surname. I did check Census records for the only farm in Buskerud/ did not yield any connections.
'In 1859 it was decided that Namsos should become a clerical district. In 1865 it was separated from the older Overhalla clerical district. Vemundvik and Sævik parishes were added to the new clerical district. In 1860 Sævik (Klinga) parish was divided with the district north of Bjørumselva and Namsenfjorden becoming a new parish called Vemundvik. In 1863 Lille Andvik from Fosnes parish was added to Vemundvik parish. In 1885 it was decided that Sævik parish would be called Klingen (Klinga). For earlier records see Overhalla and Fosnes clerical districts.'
Hopefully, there will be more info in the Parish records for this group/when I start digging. Did want to post, that I had reviewed the farm and name in Census records for Buskerud. Was not disappointed. Didn't expect to find much there.
Thanks once again for all of the good info, that is on this site. |
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crymisty
Medium member
USA
87 Posts |
Posted - 08/12/2008 : 08:34:54
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Per your Post - 30/11/2008
The father of Anne Olsdtr, appended to his name Leiret. I remembered seeing something when I looked up the market - so went back and found this:
Out of Wiki
In Elverum, the area of population east of the river called Leiret (literally the camp) adjacent to Christiansfjell Fortress was built up by soldiers as well as the merchants and craftsmen who settled nearby. Even to this day the area of Elverum east of the river is referred to as Leiret.
I did not find a farm by that name, so searching for other possibles for Leiret. Is this reasonable, that the reference was to the camp?
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crymisty
Medium member
USA
87 Posts |
Posted - 09/12/2008 : 23:35:12
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I stand corrected the stub of Leir is a farm, I don't think I was using the lookup correctly for the db.
May I please have some assistance to lookup the baptism record for Johan Jenson's father, Jens Jensen. I should be able to do this, but tonight I can't find it?
Thanks everyone who worked ahead of me and got the records for Johan and Anne. I didn't think I would need them until I dug into this line further. But, due to request from the Sexton for information on redo for their stone, I did need them & still need one more peice of information. I believe it would be in the baptism record of his father. Jens Jensen. Johan's name sometimes included a P., in legal documents. Other times a J. was shown. The use of Johan J. Grundseth, with initial J substituted for Jensen makes sense, for names as clerks thought they should be. I need to know if this P mostly likely came from a middle name not shown in the baptism or more clerical error?
The Sexton didn't give me much notice, so your work was a blessing! Almost everything he asked for you had done. |
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DALB
Medium member
USA
143 Posts |
Posted - 10/12/2008 : 00:47:13
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On your Elverum, Hedmark family - Posted - 30/11/2008
- the family of Marthe Enersdatter Mellum (wife of Jens Jensen)
If she is the child Marthe 24 Nov 1805 - born to Ener/ Ejner Pedersen and Berthe Embretsdatter - this family is on the 1801 census.
Ener Pedersen - 21 Nov 1773 and Berthe Embretsdatter 1 Dec 1776 were married 30 Mar 1799
They have a child born before marriage - Karen 30 Sept 1798 - Peder 8 Feb 1801 - Embret 21 Nov 1802 - *Marthe 24 Nov 1805 - Pernille 14 Aug 1808 - Gunder 21 Sept 1811 and Kjersti 19 Mar 1815.
They are at the farm Fieldet in 1801, #3120 & 3121 (married 30 Mar 1799), as are both her parents #3118 & 3119 (married 28 Apr 1769) and his parents #3114 & 3115 (married 30 Aug 1772).
http://digitalarkivet.uib.no/cgi-win/webcens.exe?slag=visbase&sidenr=13&filnamn=f10427&gardpostnr=89&personpostnr=3123&merk=3123#ovre
1801-telling for 0427 Elverum
County district Parish Local parish Farm
89 Hedemarkens Elverum Elverums Fieldet
3114 Peder Olsen Mand 53 Gifte 1ste gang Nyebygger dagleyer M
3115 Maren Johnsdtr Hans kone 59 Gifte 1ste gang K
3116 Marith Pedersdtr Deres datter 32 Ugivt Arbeyder K
3117 Morten Gundersen Hendes uægte søn 6 M
3118 Engebreth Nielsen Mand 57 Givte 1ste gang Nyebygger M
3119 Kirstie Waldemarsd Hans kone 59 Givte 1ste gang K
3120 Ejner Pedersen Mand 27 Givte 1ste gang Inderst, dagleyer M
3121 Berthe Engebrethsdtr Hans kone 25 Givte 1ste gang K
3122 Karen Ejnersdtr Deres uægte datter 3 Ugivt K
3123 Peder Ejnersen Deres søn ægte 1 M
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crymisty
Medium member
USA
87 Posts |
Posted - 10/12/2008 : 02:14:20
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Thank you Dalb, no doubt you have the right family. On 30/11/2008 eibache, gave me the name of the first son. I felt if I could confirm another Peder/Peter one more generation back then it was reasonable that this was a middle name, even though it did not appear in the Baptism record for Johan. It was just a very long day here trying to help others find where folks had gone to. That I got done, but I couldn't help myself after the rest. Just too tired I think; nothing was going right. knew I needed to ask for help, or the Sexton wasn't going to get his answer tomorrow.
Your assistance was so appreciated. My best wishes to you over the Holidays. It will take me that and more to put together everything you found.
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DALB
Medium member
USA
143 Posts |
Posted - 10/12/2008 : 20:16:59
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Could Jen's lineage have gone back to Elverum? If he was age 25 at their marriage, he would be born around 1802.
I found the birth record of a Jens Jensen in Elverum on 21 Mar 1802. His parents and brother are on the 1801 census at the Engen farm.
The parent were married in Elverum 10 Mar 1800.
children born to them are - Ole 26 Jan 1800 - * Jens 21 Mar 1802 - Hans 27 Jan 1805 - Christian 8 Jul 1808 - Christian 10 Feb 1812 - Johanc ? 28 Dec 1814
http://digitalarkivet.uib.no/cgi-win/webcens.exe?slag=visbase&sidenr=9&filnamn=f10427&gardpostnr=53&personpostnr=1916&merk=1916#ovre
1801-telling for 0427 Elverum
County district Parish Local parish Farm
53 Hedemarkens Elverum Elverums Engen
Given name Last name Household pos. Age Marital status Occupation Sex
1916 Jens Olsen Huusbonde 46 Givte 1ste gang Gaardbeboer hiulmager M
1917 Inger Jensdtr Hans kone 26 Givte 1ste gang K
1918 Ole Jensen Deres søn 2 Ugivt M
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crymisty
Medium member
USA
87 Posts |
Posted - 11/12/2008 : 00:59:11
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Ties to Elverums likely, given that Johan and Anne themselves were living in Egersund Prgj in 1865, but their children had been mostly born in Elverums Prgj, per 1865 Census:
Johan Jenssen arbeider i Malgruber W/wrong birth year
Anne G. Olsdatter wife W/wrong birth year
Johan P. Johanssen b.1855 Elverums
Alaexander Johansen b.1862 Elverums
Olene M Johansdatter b.1857 Elverums
Berthe Johansdatter b. 1859 Elverums
Karoline Johansdatter b. 1864 Egersund
Hannah born in 1868 (following the census)
(These children all lived and immigrated 1873. The entire family arrived on the St Olaf, New York ,18th of Apr, 1873; the arrival date is sourced.)
Eibache found that Johan Jensen and Anne Gurine Olsdatter and their children moved from Elverum to Namsos March 31 1863, and provided the link to that record above.
The census taker most likely flipped the ages for the husband and wife. The one thing I did know definitively about these folks, was that she was five years older than he. It is also obvious in the only surviving picture of them. With that as a given, then I believe the records located & listed here again, for Johan and Anne are correct. She was born in 1825 and he in 1830 & that is in agreement with her death certificate. Register unable to locate his/most likely due to spelling issues on the name.
Anne Gurine Olsdtr baptismal record is #35 (Hedmark fylke, Elverum Parish) per above in this thread; parents Ole Olsen_Leiret and Anne Arnesdatter, borne May 13, 1825.
Johan Jensen, was born March 19, 1830 and baptized March 28 (Hedmark fylke,Vang i Vang Parish); his parents were Jens Jensen Linholteie and Marthe Enersdatter. The parents had married on Dec. 27, 1827.
In the census for farm Grundseth 1801, I see a couple of interesting names: #521-Niels Jensen for one/ Konens brodersøn logerende. Significant because Nels is a family name coming down thru these folks; combined twice for first my grandpa 'Nels Johan' & then my deceased brother 'Nels John'.
http://digitalarkivet.uib.no/cgi-win/webcens.exe?slag=visbase&sidenr=22&filnamn=f10427&gardpostnr=12&merk=12#ovre.
It had been my intent to open a new thread, until I saw the names in the census records you found for me. Connection of the Grunseth people to the Barney Peterson family, is most likely thru his wife, Oliva, b Norway, abt 1865. Supposition based on the names of family/friends/neighbors appearing on old maps and in census records w them. Perhaps by finding Oliva, there will be further answers for the other family as well. No birth record was found for "Barney", per Eibache & that is strange, as she said, where his place of birth was listed on his naturalization doc. I can think of a couple of explanations for this/neither of which will be of any assist here.
The only other 'definitive' thing I know about these folks is that Johan immigrated to Amerika with a brother, after they came into money made mining, occupation confirmed per 1865 Census ('oral history' copper). I have not looked at the ship's register, to see if there is a candidate for him as brother & or family.
I did find, that there is a dc at the Dunn County, Wis office for a Johan P. Grunset (father Peter Grunset/mother Sarah Grunset b. Norway). He died Dec. 26th, 1879, of consumption in the town of Grant, Dunn, at 22 Mile Ford; white male, 23 yrs of age. He is a likely candidate as a nephew, to Johan Grunseth, but I hadn't gotten that far. Previously stated; January of 1879, a diphtheria epidemic passed through this area of Northern Wisconsin. 22 Mile Ford, is a local reference to a bridge on the Red Cedar River, and the Valley that it flows thru is called the Red Cedar Valley.
The census record for the farm Lindholdt,1801, also looked promising, for leads:
http://digitalarkivet.uib.no/cgi-win/webcens.exe?slag=visbase&sidenr=13&filnamn=f10414&gardpostnr=81&merk=81#ovre
As did, Fieldet 1801, locally at one time - many Fjelsteds in this area and Tollefsen name appears also - close in plats maps.
http://digitalarkivet.uib.no/cgi-win/webcens.exe?slag=visbase&sidenr=8&filnamn=f10427&gardpostnr=89&merk=89#ovre
A brother Peter married to a Sarah is probably the next step in parish records or census & possibly on the ship. But, I can't right now. Where I am going to stay in this thread, I thought a summary might be a good idea. Will try to see if I can find a second naturalization record for a Peter & Sarah.
Thanks once again for the farm records last night! After you gave them to me, I knew what I had done. Helps to be looking for the right farms in the right municipalities. The Sexton got his answer & that was what mattered. |
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DALB
Medium member
USA
143 Posts |
Posted - 11/12/2008 : 07:30:06
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I did not find what became of #521 Niels Jensen on Grundseth, but he was born 22 Oct 1780 - his father was Jens Nilsen Herstad -
Jens NIlsen Harstad & Ingebor Hansdatter Svanaasen were marr. 7 Aug 1780.
Niels aunt and Jens' sister Ingri Nielsdatter Harstad was married the first time 25 June 1775 to Morten Knudsen Moistad - he died at age 41 - burial 2 Dec 1788.
Ingri's 2nd marr 3 Sept 1790 - Peder Hansen Grundset & enke Ingri Moistad
the child #514 Hans Pedersen is the son of Peder and Ingri
Peder's father is #522 on the 1801 census |
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Bernhard Peterson, abt 1853, and Olivia, abt 1865
