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Tucker
Starting member
USA
15 Posts |
 Posted - 16/04/2002 : 02:06:09
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My great grandfather left Rauland Telemark in 1860 as Aslak Osmundsen Tvitækken. He also had a brother Knute that left in 1861. On a passenger list, the bark AMELIA, that left Porsgrunn on April 20, 1860, there is a Aslak Osmundsen Tvedteggen. Are these the same farms? Not knowing pronunications, I can't be sure. I have no other information on their family, only the NHDC 1865 census as to who their father might be, but have not been able to accurately identify anyone. It shows Osmund Johnsen as being born in 1804, Knute was born in 1824 and Aslak, in 1841. I don't think this is the right person. Do you have any suggestions? Also, is the farm Tvitækken still in exsistence. Thanks for any imput you might have.
Ann |
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askeroi
Senior member
Norway
299 Posts |
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Tucker
Starting member
USA
15 Posts |
Posted - 18/04/2002 : 18:01:42
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Thank you for your information. My main concern about whether this could be Aslak's father was his age. He would have been around twenty when his first child was born, Knute was born in 1824, and that seemed quite young. Most of the ages I've seen were late twenties to early thirties for marriages.
I thought the difference in spelling of the farm names might be language differences and how someone heard it pronounced. I'm glad to hear that it is still in exsistence.
I would love to see it some day.
I've ordered the books by Rikard Berge, Vinje og Rauland and have ordered the church records, in hopes of finding out about the rest of the family. Is there another source that would help?
Thanks again for your assistance
Ann |
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askeroi
Senior member
Norway
299 Posts |
Posted - 18/04/2002 : 20:41:05
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I agree his age doesn't quite fit. But it could be wrong - it quite often is. But of course it could be the wrong man.
On the other hand his name fit the as a son of the user before him, Eivind Aslaksson (born abt. 1767, dead 1837)...!
The church book hopefully will tell you, as (as far as I can see in a hurry) Rikard Berge is stopping his story with Eivind (and 'moving' on to his daughters saying that this family (probably meaning the sons?) went to America). I would be great if it's the right people we've found, as Rikard Berge then gives you forefathers back to the 15th century!!! (Not on Tvitekkja, though, as Eivind came to Tvitekkja at the end of the 18th century...
I don't know any better source than Rikard Berge. He include a load of information of 'everything' - BUT lines are very hard to follow as he is 'jumping around'...
A great help would probably be the 'people register' for the Rikard Berge books available from Vinje Sparebank ('Vinje Savings Bank'). Unfortunately I do not have this register myself...
If you give me your e-mail address I'll male you quite a few of Eivind's anchestors, as he is a far relative to my wife...
GOOD LUCK!!
askeroi |
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askeroi
Senior member
Norway
299 Posts |
Posted - 19/04/2002 : 06:58:04
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I'm really sorry. It's the wrong man. He's still on the farm in 1875 and then his birth year is given as 1826. And of course then he is too young. We will have to look elsewhere. It could still be your Osmund Jonsen, though he too is probably too young. It looks like the Tvitekkja name doesn't come from the 'main' farmer family on the farm, but someone else connected to the farm. Sorry.
But I'll keep on seraching...
askeroi |
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Tucker
Starting member
USA
15 Posts |
Posted - 20/04/2002 : 16:00:14
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Thank you so much for your help. The NHDC census has a Osmund Johnson listed. He his birth year was 1804. It would still make him quite young for Knute's father (1824). Wouldn't the information be the same source for both the NHDC and Digitalikarvet? It definitely does get confusing. Seems as if my GGrandfather is quite elusive.
The books by Rikard Berge came yesterday, but if you couldn't find anything conclusive, I doubt I'll have much luck.
Ann |
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askeroi
Senior member
Norway
299 Posts |
Posted - 20/04/2002 : 22:26:26
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Well, Osmund Jonsons bithyear doesn't totally exclude him. But he is "just" a hired hand - we don't know if he relly lived on the farm "long enough" to have it as a "name". That I can't find the right persons in Rikard Berge at a quick glance may very well be because I'm looking at the wrong place - in a chapter about Tvitekkja.
A closer examination could very well give you the answer. It could be placed under the person's birth farm - problem then is to recognize him as Rikard Berge then probably will call him by that farm name. (There are lot of peoples mentioned with more than one "farm surname" in his books)...
You may have to find the father's name in the church books. But don't regret buying the Rikard Berge books. They really are filled with information - they are just to hard to work your way through..
I'll keep on looking. And if you find him first I hope you let me know as I may be of help with the books - or have information in database...
askeroi |
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Tucker
Starting member
USA
15 Posts |
Posted - 21/04/2002 : 02:45:37
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How long would a person have to live or work on a farm to able to use the name? I am assuming now that he came there from some other place and who knows where all of his family could be. The only other information I have as far as location is that Aslak might possibly have been born Flaaten i Vinje and went to Rauland before he left.
I picked up the books from the library, and they look like they could be so interesting, have one problem, can't read Norwegian. I recognize names, farm names, dates, etc, just don't have any idea what else there is.
Feel free to contact me by e-mail, click on Tucker.
I'm sure you will find something before me. Even though I've ordered church records, it will be a couple of weeks before I get them. Something has to be in there.
I'll be glad to give you any information when I get something.
Thanks again for your help.
Ann |
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askeroi
Senior member
Norway
299 Posts |
Posted - 22/04/2002 : 06:44:21
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As you've probably read in the "those norwegian names" file people in those days had a (or more) given name(s). That was their name. The father's name (patronymicon) was added to seperate all those Aslaks, and the farm names were added as well, but that was not a real name as it changed when they moved. But if you were a helping hand moving "continuesly" from farm to farm taking small jobs you didn't change your name every other week.
To "get" the farm name your stay had to be of a permanent basis. The family living on the farm. Their foster children. Eh...
But the Floten information is exiting. I do not have the books here, but I'll look for it when I get home (today).
If there is any comfort: the Rikard Berge books are very hard to read even for a norwegian, as they are written in a very limited local dialect within the Vinje/Rauland area. I'm not from West Telemark and have great difficults in understanding the books. Even my mother-in-law, who's born in Bøgrend in Vinje do have difficulties.
I will of course do my best to help you though I can't promise to translate everything I don't understand myself...
I'm looking forward to researching the Floten farm...
askeroi |
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Tucker
Starting member
USA
15 Posts |
Posted - 22/04/2002 : 23:59:50
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I got the Telemark kartotek, and went through it, Aslak and Knute both left from Rauland, Aslak left as Aslak Osmundsen Tvibakke, only other information given was his birthdate. Knute just left as Knute Osmundsen. No farm name. I didn't know if they worked for a certain length of time, then they could use the name. Looks like his family isn't from Rauland, but somewhere else. I suppose that Osmund Johnson could have been a relative and that was Aslak's last stop before he left so he "borrowed" the name. Guess no one would have known. Seems like in the census, that most of the Osmundsens' live in the Rauland area. Coincidence I guess.
My husband looks at me like I've lost my mind when I am looking at the Berge books. Like I said, I can pick out names and farm names and that's what I'm looking for. Ordered a dictionary, but that will be slow going.
I am really curious to see what you might come up with. It's frustrating when sources you need are not readily available, but I guess that's genealogy.
Ann |
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askeroi
Senior member
Norway
299 Posts |
Posted - 23/04/2002 : 06:39:58
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Sorry I didn't get the time to look for it yesterday (something came up).
Could you tell me his birthdate, please??
I'm not sure about this Tvibakke. Floten is a farm in Vinje, West Telemark. There's no Osmund/Aasmund or the like there at those moments (but it's a long periode of time...)
A dictionary of course will be of some help, but the books are, as I've said before, written in a local dialect and even hard to understand for norwegians. But if we find the people there we will with joined forces find out what it says about them. Be patient...
askeroi |
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askeroi
Senior member
Norway
299 Posts |
Posted - 23/04/2002 : 06:59:57
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P.S.
What's this "Telemark kartotek"??? And doesn't it give any more information than you said???
askeroi |
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Tucker
Starting member
USA
15 Posts |
Posted - 23/04/2002 : 19:23:06
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Aslak's birthday is April 12, 1841 and Knute's is in 1824.
The "Emigrant kartotek" is quoting," An alphabetical list by given name then surname of the people who emigrated from Telemark county, Norway until the year 1900. It lists the persons name, age or date of birth, occupation, residence, destination, name of the ship and date it sailed." As you can see, this would be a wealth of information, but not everyone listed had all the information. I got the microfishe from the Latter Day Saints. I suppose when things were translated from the old records, some information wasn't legible any more. One interesting thing when I was going through this kartotek, there were several other people that had the same farm name of Tvibakke or Tvibakken. A couple were Aslaksdatters and one a Torkelsen. I suppose just how someone pronounced a word and how it was written down.
I do appreciate all the help that you have given me. It's nice to have some one in the know to run ideas and thoughts by.
How likely or unlikely would it be that they were born someplace else besides Telemark? I feel it should be Telemark because that is what family records have as his birth place, but I have also found that there were several things in the family records that were incorrect, close but not accurate. Families at that time really didn't move very far, did they?
Again, thank you for your help.
Ann |
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askeroi
Senior member
Norway
299 Posts |
Posted - 23/04/2002 : 21:52:25
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These names are typical West Telemark and I believe they are from there. The strange thing is this Tvibakke, but it could very well be a small "husmannsplass" - a tiny bit of a farm where a family was allowed to live to be available as help for the farm family. I just haven't heard of it (the name).
Another strange thing is - when I read what I can find in Rikard Berge about the two (one originally, but divided) Tvitekkja farms there are no Osmunds' on any of them to be the father of the brothers. Though Osmund is one of the most common names in West Telemark.
You're asking about moving distances. Untill the 19th century MOST farming people mowed within a small radius, but of course there were exceptions! In the 19th century the society totally changed. Lots of people mowed to the towns - not to mention America, Australia etc. So we couldn't really tell.
But I still believe they came from West Telemark. Maybe not from Rauland, but from Vinje, Seljord, Mo...
You're also asking about the missing info in the list. Probably some of those who wrote them down were careless with their job. And some people wouldn't or couldn't give the wanted info.
Another thing: There is quite an age gap between "your" brothers. Most likely there are several siblings as well. If we could assume Knut being the oldest, we should expect him to be named after his fathers father. So there is a good chance we're looking for an Osmund Knutsson as their father. But we can't be sure - naming rules weren't absolute (and Knut doesn't have to be the oldest).
These other "Tvibakke" people - what are their names and birth dates/years? Maybe we can get a hint if we find them in Rikard Berge?
I would really love to solve this problem. It's a challenge!!! :-))
askeroi |
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Tucker
Starting member
USA
15 Posts |
Posted - 24/04/2002 : 16:17:58
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I am so glad that you are up for a challenge - because we have one.
I had always thought that Aslak was probably the oldest because he left and came over here but that was before I found out that he had a brother. That thought is out the window now. Yes, there is quite a bit of difference in their ages, so now I'm guess that Knute could be the oldest and Aslak the youngest. There could have possibly been other siblings that came, possibly even some sisters. When females got married here, they used their fathers last names on the marriage certificates, at least that's what happened in Minnisota. So they didn't even have their own last name even at marriage and after, of course, their husbands, so they are not easy to spot on census records.
I have tried to find information out on Osmund Knutsen's but not much luck there either. Of course about the only sources that I am aware of are the digitalaarkivet and NHDC at Troms, the Family Search through the Latter Day Saints has quite a bit but I think a lot of their information is what genealogy families have sent in.
Here is the information exactly as was on the films.
Vinje (To) 1844
Aasne Aslaksdatter Tvibakke 72
Lisbeth Evindsdatter 24 datter
Rauland (TO) 1882
Gunnar Torkelson Tvæbakken
25/1 1860
f. pas Bakkus
Vinje 1858
Margith Aslaksdatter Tvibakken 25
I also think there are two possible enteries for Aslak, if not then there is a remarkable coincidence because these two Aslaks are born on the same day and left the same year.
Aslak Osmundson Tvibakke 1860
12/4 1841 Aslak Aasmundson Tvibakken
Vinje 1860 12/4 1841
f. Flaaten i Vinje
I'm sorry, I had forgotten about the two different entries. I'm sure there are probably some more, I just don't have everything written down.
Good Luck and happy hunting!
Ann |
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askeroi
Senior member
Norway
299 Posts |
Posted - 08/05/2002 : 12:20:36
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Just to tell you I haven't forgotten.
Just one thing that comes to mind: Is this Telemark arkiv your only source to Knut's birth year or do you have (an)other source(s) to confirm it?
If this is the only source it could be a misprint for 1842 making the brothers of about the same age - and opening new possibilities...
askeroi |
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Topic |
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Osmundsen/Tvitækken
