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Kåarto
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
5861 Posts |
 Posted - 07/08/2009 : 12:26:08
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It´s been claimed that Ole Nattestad returned to Norway fall 1838 and returned to USA 1939 with his brother Ansten when he organized a group of more than 100 emigrants from Numedal.
He didn´t, he went to Clinton township, Wisc. where he entered a claim of 80 acres on july 1. 1838, sector 20, and immediately started erecting temporary quarters and to cultivate the land. The harvest was good.
The information is from an interview he gave in the Norwegian newspaper Nordlyset (USA) Mai. 8. 1848 (not found)
The following summer he build a small cabin.
His only neighbors in the wilderness were 8 Americans lived about as lonley as him.
"Flocks of deer and other game were to be seen daily. The howling of the prairie wolvs constantly disturbed my night rest, until the habit fortified my ears against disturbances of this kind"
September 1839 his brother Ansten arrived with more than 100 emigrants from Numedal, some settled down in Clinton and some went to Rock Prairie.
The person mentioned as K Nattestad* #2 was Ole and Ansten´s sister Kari Knudsdatter Nattestad born Oct. 1819, she was recorded in the emigration book on Mai. 22. 1839
Kåre
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Edited by - Kåarto on 08/05/2010 01:03:39 |
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Borge
Veteran Moderator
Norway
1297 Posts |
Posted - 07/08/2009 : 14:30:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Kåarto
The person mentioned as K Nattestad* #2 was Ole and Ansten´s sister Kari Knudsdatter Nattestad born Oct. 1819, she was recorded in the emigration book on Mai. 22. 1839
Kåre
Thanks Kåre! I have added the information to the K. Nattestad record: K. Nattestad.
I really hope that all of you will help with the additions an corrections by submitting information on persons found in the passenger list and Ulvestad base. It is easy, just click the names in the persons. |
Børge Solem |
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Kåarto
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
5861 Posts |
Posted - 07/08/2009 : 20:41:55
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Hei Børge,
I agree, corrections or additions to the passenger list is very easy.
Amazing to think about that all the pasengers from Emilie 1839 settled down in the same area in Wisc. except Ole Halvorsen Fløse.
It seems like some from the Numedal party had to travel with the Telemark party via Gothenburg, Sweden since more than 100 emigrated spring 1839.
Wonder where Halsten Halvorsen Fløse met his brother Ole, they didn´t settle down in Dodgeville before 1841 when brother Eric arrived.
Kåre
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Linda Tollefson Therkelse
Junior member
USA
62 Posts |
Posted - 07/05/2010 : 18:09:06
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Hello, I see there is no current discussion on this topic on the board. I am not a descendant of Halsten, but I am a descendant of some of those who left from Veggli in 1839, including Bergit Nilsdatter Kallerud (or you could maybe call her Brekke-eie). Bergit's father Nils Bentson Brekke had sold 2/3 of Brekke in 1808, and the other 1/3 became Kallerud. Fløse was another husmannplass on Brekke. Bergit came on the Emilie with Ansten Nattestad. I was looking for a little more about Halsten Halvorson Fløse, since he had written the first America letter and was from Brekke! - when I came across the discussion.
I think I may know who the man Daanne is. I think this is Downing.
I am going to connect to a book on Google, Rasmus Björn Anderson's The First Chapter of Norwegian Immigration (1821-1840), published in 1895. Anderson went around and interviewed as many of the early settlers as he could and it is clear from the phrasing that he talked to my great-great-grandparents, Bergit and Jens.
http://books.google.com/books?id=AJ4hAAAAMAAJ&printsec=frontcover&lr=#v=onepage&q=Halstein&f=false
If the link fails, find the book on Google books and go to p. 256. Jens Gulbrandson is telling his story. Jens immigrated from Myhra farm but was born on Kjerre (don't look for him in Hoff, he has somehow been left out! Look in church records). His sister and a half-brother were on the Emilie in 1839, but he immigrated as he tells here with his brother Gulbrand. So then they went to Chicago and heard of Halstein Halvorson. Anderson identifies him as from Telemark, but I think he is really the Halsten from Veggli. Of course they would be excited to meet someone from home -- in Veggli!! And you see he is working for a man named DOWNING. That absolutely fits, I think that is what Halsten was trying to write. Halsten is mentioned again on p. 266 in the description of the travels with the Nattestads.
It seems to me I have tried to locate Downing before, but have not really concentrated on it.
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Linda Tollefson Therkelsen |
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Kåarto
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
5861 Posts |
Posted - 08/05/2010 : 01:02:19
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Hello Linda.
Thank you for the exiting information you supply and share with us.
I have spend som time in searching Daanne without luck.
The 4 farms Kjerre, Fløse, Kallerud and Brekke in the northern part of Veggli sub parish were less than 10 minutes walk from each other.
Kjerre was the northernmost of these farms on the shores of lake Kravikfjorden
Halstein could not speak or write in English when he wrote the letter on master Daannes farm.
The two names Daanne and Downing are quite similar, espesially if the W was stum, Halstein wrote what he heard, the English and Norwegian alphabet is pronounced differently.
The letters aa is todays å, master Dånne.
Kåre
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Edited by - Kåarto on 08/05/2010 01:11:04 |
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Linda Tollefson Therkelse
Junior member
USA
62 Posts |
Posted - 08/05/2010 : 02:50:15
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Of course, Jens may not have it correct, either. It must have been more than 50 years later that Anderson talked to him, and it does not sound like Jens and Gulbrand were there very long. I do not believe Jens could read or write at all at that time, he signed all his documents with an "x". I wondered who had written the letter for Halstein (it also in Hoff). Still, Downing is a very English, perhaps it is close. And I am sure Jens would have been one of many who were gathered around listening to whoever could read the letter. Perhaps that is what it was in his mind. And then, I think, when they hear of Halstein Halvorson with a man with name like Dånne nearby, they must go see him! The settlers all were very close, they are all constantly crossing paths. Bergit's brother Bent Nelson also settled by Dodgeville around 1841. He later moved to -- Bennington, Kansas, but moved again to Eureka, Kansas.
I have been to Kjerre and Brekke, though only saw Kallerud on the hill. I was there with Numedalslåget Lag in 2008, though sadly, only a very quick visit to these ancestral farms. I did meet my relatives who live in Kjerre yet.
It is not entirely clear to me -- are you related to Halstein?
I think I have looked before to see where they might have been, but did not find anything right away. You have to realized, there are very few records for this area so early.
Linda |
Linda Tollefson Therkelsen |
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Kåarto
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
5861 Posts |
Posted - 08/05/2010 : 17:34:44
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Hi,
I am not a ralative of Halstein, I have ben in contact with ancestors to his sister Liv once.
Halsten wrote the 1838 letter, his handwriting is beautiful, I have a copy of the original.
I think the link to Downing is facinating, one can assume that no American names were spelled correctly in the letter.
I read about the 2008 visit to Numedal, led by Chet Habberstad, in the newspaper, you have probably seen this, all in Norwegian, this translater works well.
Kåre
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Edited by - Kåarto on 08/05/2010 17:35:48 |
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Linda Tollefson Therkelse
Junior member
USA
62 Posts |
Posted - 08/05/2010 : 18:47:48
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Hi Kåre,
I take it you live in Numedal, then?
I am not so sure that Halstein with only a few months education, coming from a husmannplass in 1837, could really write a long letter with beautiful handwriting. I wonder if he really dictated it to someone else who writes it down for him? Maybe Ole Rynning or Ansten Nattestad himself, since Ansten brought back Ole's book and his own manuscript, so they must write?
Where did you find the original, I looked on the Digital Archive some time ago, but could not find it?
I think the Downing name is a good clue, but it is still a problem. The name is fairly common, and could still really be something else like Downey or Down. I looked a little last night and could find a Thomas Downing in Chicago at the right time, but he lived downtown on the waterfront. 22 miles west seems like it should be in DuPage County, which was split out of Cook County in 1839, but would still have been in Cook in 1838.
I will try to look a little more, but have some other writing to do. You will have to be patient.
What do you think it means, Ellenørsled, at the end? It seems like a place name. How is he using "-sled" or "-led"?
Yes, I am in the photo (we saw this when we were there). If you look at the left side, there is a little gap. I am just to the right of the gap, I have on a black jacket, blue jeans, white shoes, a small black camera bag on waist (not fat!). They asked us about immigrant ancestors - of course, I have connections to more farms in Veggli; and many in Hallingdal, especially Gol area. My daughter-in-law also has some ancestors from Nore.
You can ask Pastor Sjaavaag if a little patience with me can pay off. (I need to look how to add smilies!) |
Linda Tollefson Therkelsen |
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Kåarto
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
5861 Posts |
Posted - 09/05/2010 : 01:06:46
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Halstein had a few weeks education a year in a period of 3-5 years.
I am no expert, but the letter is alleged to be written by Halstein Fløse.
If he didn´t the letter it should have been ended with "on behalf of" when it was signed;
Halstein Halvor søn Fløse.
The original is kept in the archives in IKA Kongsberg (Inter Kommunalt Arkiv), a inter-municipal archiv for several municipalities.
I spend 25 summers in Nore some years ago so I know the valley well, Kongsberg is my hometown.
Class divide in Norway at that time was extremely, the reason two farmersons from Nattestad took the poor leaseholder son Halstein Fløse with them on the unknown journey could be because Halstein had very special qualities that they needed.
As a Norwegian Ellenørsled sound English to me, I thought perhaps Ellenør was a woman´s name, Ellenor - Ellenors???.
I have made several searches in various spellings without luck.
Pastor Sjaavaag from Rollag has been "over there" visited Norwegian settlements and churches, source; Numedalsnett.
Kåre |
Edited by - Kåarto on 09/05/2010 01:10:26 |
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Linda Tollefson Therkelse
Junior member
USA
62 Posts |
Posted - 09/05/2010 : 02:40:58
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Yes, I think that, too, that Ellenor sounds like a woman's name. That is why I was wondering how you would interprete the last part, the -led or whatever it is. (I only have the text in the bygdebok.)
I really believe many of these people had special qualities that helped them to succeed so well, though I well know they were of the poorest. After all, they are my ancestors! (My Gol great-grandfather and his siblings born in Norway were each born on a different farm as his parents had to keep moving.) And succeed they did. It is obvious that Halstein was hardworking, and it sounds like he learned the language fairly quickly. To be treated so well and be paid to go along, one has to think that there is something to his personality that helped him get along.
I found Pastor Sjaavaag's American relatives for him...
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Linda Tollefson Therkelsen |
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Linda Tollefson Therkelse
Junior member
USA
62 Posts |
Posted - 09/05/2010 : 04:47:19
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Don't get too excited yet, but I think I have found someone very interesting. The 1840 census is a mess, I think many people are missing. But in 1850 I found what looks like Gent. Maj. M. Downing to me, 45, born England, a farmer and tavern keeper, living in Maine Twp. in Cook County. This Maine Twp. is about 20-25 miles west-northwest of downtown Chicago, it is on the corner of DuPage County (Cook has an odd layout). His wife is Elisabeth, 44, also born England, child Ellen, 5, plus a long list of others who are probably staying at the tavern. But especially, the value of his real estate is $10,000. That is a LOT of money in those days! I like this entry very well, it seems about the right place, he has money to pay someone well. That really looks like a Gent. -- for maybe Gentleman? He thinks he is a Gentleman? It is very unusual in Illinois, but maybe that is why Halstein calls him "Master", another unusual thing in Midwestern America. (In very early American history, many of the landowners used things like Gentleman and Yeoman on the east coast.)
I see the same family in successive census, although I believe the ages of the man and wife were off by 10 years in the 1850 -- the names are too good a match not to be same family. In 1860 I see him as Digory Downing, 40 or 44, farmer, wife Elizabeth, 45, both b. England, daughter Elizabeth, 15 (same as Ellen), Samuel, 18, Mary, 12, William H., 4; value of real estate $4,000 personal $500 living in Schaumberg, Cook County (it is same place with new name); 1870, Digery Downing, 51, is nearby in Bloomingdale in Du Page County, retired farmer, value of real estate $12,000, personal $1,800, wife Betsey, 56 (the short name for Elizabeth), Henry, 15, plus a servant; in 1880 same place, he and wife with 2 servants.
I have also considered whether Downers Grove is a possibility. It is 19 miles west of Chicago, was founded by Pierce Downer in the 1830s, an evangelist. However, these settlers seem to all be from the eastern U.S. and I think Downer does not have any money to employ people.
Now I am too tired to keep working tonight. |
Linda Tollefson Therkelsen |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9301 Posts |
Posted - 09/05/2010 : 05:03:19
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Here is the Ancestry.com listing for the1850 US Census record. The transcriber has the name incorrect as the orginal census reads much better as Maj or Map rather than Mary.
Name: Gent Mary M Downing
Age: 45
Estimated birth year: abt 1805
Birth Place: England
Gender: Male
Home in 1850 (City,County,State): Maine, Cook, Illinois
Family Number: 1180
Household Members: Name Age
Gent Mary M Downing 45
Elizabeth Downing 44
Ellen M Downing 5
Thomas Brooks 30
Edward Michcock 20
Rachael Nainby 45
Thomas Pembleton 35
Mary Shaw 17
William Hoofe 49
Mary Hoofe 34
Thomas Hoofe 10
Ester Hoofe 8
James Snider 21
Cyril Dubard 19
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9301 Posts |
Posted - 09/05/2010 : 05:26:00
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Mr. Downing certainly was a long lived gentleman, as he is still listed in the 1900 US Census. This census lists him as landlord and immigration year as 1846.
Name: Dickery Downing
[Drickery Dowrence]
Home in 1900: Aurora Ward 3, Kane, Illinois
Age: 83
Birth Date: Dec 1816
Birthplace: England
Race: White
Gender: Male
Immigration Year: 1846
Relationship to Head of House: Head
Father's Birthplace: England
Mother's Birthplace: England
Marital Status: Widowed
Residence : Aurora City, Kane, Illinois
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Linda Tollefson Therkelse
Junior member
USA
62 Posts |
Posted - 09/05/2010 : 21:26:52
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| Hmmm, that immigration year makes him arriving too late for Halstein to be with him in 1838. While immigration years are frequently off in census, I can see him also in 1910 census in Aurora Twp. in Kane Co. in a quick look, also reporting 1846. (This guy lived a really long time!) Think it is still worth a little more looking -- perhaps he was following a brother or father of some location -- but don't have time today. |
Linda Tollefson Therkelsen |
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Kåarto
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
5861 Posts |
Posted - 10/05/2010 : 00:16:06
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Hi.
Could be Halstein called him Master because others did or it was a sign of respect for this famiy, they paid him almost double salary, Hallstein called Mrs Dånne for "min Madmoder".
Mad means food and moder is mother, "Food mother", she made sure he did not starve.
Madmoder (Matmor) used as nickname in Norway today about a person feeding the animals on a farm, one they trust.
She also put a silk ribbon to Ansteins mother and some money to his brothers in the letter.
Anstein must have been fond in this family.
Anstein had humor, he titled his father "Velagte mand" Halvor Olesøn Fløse;
Respected man Halvor Olsen Fløse, the title was used among the middleclass, I suppose Halvor Olsen smiled when he read it.
Ansteins brother Ole came 1839, Eric 1841 when its supposed they settled down in Dodgeville.
Could be Halstein and Ole worked for Daanne until Eric came over.
Many ifs, I think this topic have come forward because of you.
Kåre
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The first "Amerika-brev"
