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nanhill
Starting member
USA
11 Posts |
 Posted - 11/12/2010 : 13:10:17
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| How common was it for girls in Norway to have had two names (for example, Jørgine Marthe) that may or may not have been recorded for their baptismal records? Would it have been unusual for someone to be baptized with one name but to use another? I believe that Jørgine and Martha were the same person but it might be hard to establish this just going by the Norwegian records. |
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Kåarto
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
5861 Posts |
Posted - 11/12/2010 : 22:40:48
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Hi, first;
No rules without exception;
I´ve read that the two naming practice started in the towns among the middle class and was perceived as snobbish among ordinary people.
As time went by this naming practice was then adopteted by ordinanry people and later spread to the entire country.
Boys and girls often has two names in Norway, in daily normally first name is used, sometimes both names, more rarely only the 2. name.
Few live their lifes with a nickname.
Reading the church records from the dif. parish´s you can see when when this practice started.
Kåre
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eibache
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
6495 Posts |
Posted - 11/12/2010 : 23:42:56
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I am afraid I have misled you, Martha was not baptized Georgine, the confirmation record says her name was Gyrid, see #16 - (jumped to a conclusion too fast on the bapt. record which was very difficult to read) - I have corrected the earlier posting.
Knud Jensen and Ragnilda Tharaldsdatter in 1865.
Gyrid/Jørgine/Martha had a younger sister Martha born 1856. Being that much younger and considering Marthas age when she died it is doubtful that the younger sister was the one in US.
Her father Knud Jensen, Kaldem was born Oct 13 1816 in Etne, Hordaland, see #8. His parents were Jens Baardsen and Gyrid Pedersdatter, Kaldem.
Jens Baardsen in 1865.
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Einar |
Edited by - eibache on 11/12/2010 23:52:26 |
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nanhill
Starting member
USA
11 Posts |
Posted - 13/12/2010 : 05:30:21
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Thanks, Kåre and Einar. Definitely no rules w-out exception in Norway. Norwegians have a little rebel streak, I think. :)
It's a little frustrating that Martha's records are so confusing and contradictory but it also makes it interesting. I give some weight to the family history here, that she was considered the daughter of Knud and Ragne and the mother of those 6 children including Cornelius. But, of course, could well go to Norway and try to find relatives to piece the facts together. That might be the only way. The records just make no sense form my perspective here (and are hard to read). I wonder if Gyrid might have been a twin who died? Is that possible? Were multiple births noted on record? It just grows more and more confusing, from Martha to Georgine to Martha Iversd. to Gyrid -- how does one woman in the U.S. become 4 women in Norway -- ha ha. But I do appreciate your help all the same -- this is a true genealogical mystery. |
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ken likness
New on board
Canada
2 Posts |
Posted - 13/12/2010 : 05:53:32
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I to am facing a similar dilema with one female relative and strangely enough her father also.
I have come to the conclusion that since the naming of children (say Iversdtr or Iverson) is based on the then prevalant jewish idea of naming children after a father (latin for the man a woman was "with" when she gave birth; NOT paternal relationships) that names may have been changed as new(er) relationships developed. REMEMBER few of these people actually had "church" marriages prior to 1948; rather generally if you lived together you were considered married. |
klikness |
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eibache
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
6495 Posts |
Posted - 13/12/2010 : 09:46:14
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quote:
It just grows more and more confusing, from Martha to Georgine to Martha Iversd. to Gyrid -- how does one woman in the U.S. become 4 women in Norway -- ha ha
- don't overdo the problem, part of this is my fault since Georgine was never in the Norwegian documents. |
Einar |
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Kåarto
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
5861 Posts |
Posted - 13/12/2010 : 11:46:46
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Hi.
After almost 500 year in two unwanted Union´s rebelliousness probably still exist in our genes.
Patronymic naming system was used in Norway for more than 1000 years and ended ab. 1900, very rarly today, but it appears that the numbers of users are increasing.
Iceland still practice this naming system.
There are also few examples on Matronymic naming.
Kåre |
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nanhill
Starting member
USA
11 Posts |
Posted - 13/12/2010 : 14:02:25
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quote:
Originally posted by eibache
quote:
It just grows more and more confusing, from Martha to Georgine to Martha Iversd. to Gyrid -- how does one woman in the U.S. become 4 women in Norway -- ha ha
- don't overdo the problem, part of this is my fault since Georgine was never in the Norwegian documents.
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nanhill
Starting member
USA
11 Posts |
Posted - 13/12/2010 : 14:04:56
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(sorry, I didn't use the reply form correctly)
I thought I saw a link in this thread to record of a Jørgine Knudsdatter working as tjenestepike at someone else's place?
That might just be random but then the link for the marriage record in 1867 of Gabriel Gabrielsen Meling shows he married a Jørgine Knudsdatter. Gyrid does make it more confusing, at least to me. |
Edited by - nanhill on 13/12/2010 14:27:03 |
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nanhill
Starting member
USA
11 Posts |
Posted - 13/12/2010 : 14:08:40
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quote:
Originally posted by ken likness
I to am facing a similar dilema with one female relative and strangely enough her father also.
I have come to the conclusion that since the naming of children (say Iversdtr or Iverson) is based on the then prevalant jewish idea of naming children after a father (latin for the man a woman was "with" when she gave birth; NOT paternal relationships) that names may have been changed as new(er) relationships developed. REMEMBER few of these people actually had "church" marriages prior to 1948; rather generally if you lived together you were considered married.
I have a lot to learn about tracing genealogy in Norway. |
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eibache
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
6495 Posts |
Posted - 13/12/2010 : 15:27:44
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quote:
I thought I saw a link in this thread to record of a Jørgine Knudsdatter working as tjenestepike at someone else's place?
- you are right, see my posting 28/08/2009 : 11:10:59.
Jørgine Knudsdatter was a servant at one of the Meling farms (there were 10 of them in 1865), see here.
Gabriel Gabrielsen, her husband to be, and his parents and siblings were on one of the other Meling farms, see here.
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Einar |
Edited by - eibache on 13/12/2010 15:30:07 |
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eibache
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
6495 Posts |
Posted - 13/12/2010 : 15:50:31
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quote:
That might just be random but then the link for the marriage record in 1867 of Gabriel Gabrielsen Meling shows he married a Jørgine Knudsdatter. Gyrid does make it more confusing, at least to me.
- I see your uncertainty. In the marriage record #14 Gabriel was born and living at Meling, Jørgine Knudsdatter we know was working on one of the Meling farm 1 year before the marriage. She was born at Vigedal and her father was Knud Farland (name of the farm) in Vigedal.
There were 5 named Knud in 1865 - two of them was at the Førland (= Farland) farm, only one of them was old enough to be Jørgines father, that was Knud Jensen.
Jørgine was 21 years old at the 1865 census, when she was married the age is given as 24. She must have been born sometime between 1843 and 1845.
The child that Knud Jensen and his wife baptized Jan 1 1845 was born Dec 28 1844, unfortunately the name given at the baptism was Gyrid and the same name was used at her confirmation.
I am not able to explain why she used Jørgine as her name later, but I at least am convinced that Gyrid, alias Jørgine, is the one that married Gabriel Gabrielsen in 1867.
quote:
John Daniel Hill, or Dan Hill, as he was often called, was born September 30, 1873, at Stavanger, Norway, to Gabriel Gabrielson Hill and Martha Farland Hill.
- the baptismal record shows that the mother was Jørgine Knudsdatter, see #151 - also we know that the last name used in US, Hill, most likely comes from Gabriel Gabrielsens grandfather who was living at the Hille farm in Strand parish and it is reasonable to state that Martha Farland Hill has that last name because her father came fram Farland (= Førland) - John Daniel and the one baptised Daniel Johan seams clearly to be the same person.
Martha Farland Hill is the same person as Jørgine Knudsdatter, wife of Gabriel Gabrielsen, Meling. |
Einar |
Edited by - eibache on 13/12/2010 17:41:25 |
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nanhill
Starting member
USA
11 Posts |
Posted - 13/12/2010 : 20:09:15
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| I just got off the phone with my Aunt Carolyn (nee Hill). Our Martha was known to be Martha Farland (Førland) Hill, so that helps. What I was going by is a published obituary that says she was Martha Hill, daughter of Knut and Ragne Hild Knutson, baptized and confirmed in Hetland Church. Any Hetland Church/Parish record that matches this information will be closer to what we know. Carolyn did say that they thought she might have been younger than her tombstone indicated by birthdate (because otherwise she would have had to be 50 when she had her last child?) If she was the Martha Knudsd. who was 10 years old in 1865 she would have been 12 when she gave birth to Serine. |
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eibache
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
6495 Posts |
Posted - 14/12/2010 : 08:15:14
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quote:
What I was going by is a published obituary that says she was Martha Hill, daughter of Knut and Ragne Hild Knutson, baptized and confirmed in Hetland Church
in her marriage record is stated that she was from Vikedal, the baptismal record say her parents were Knud Jensen and Ragnilda Taraldsdatter, Førland (US way Knut and Ragne Hild Knutson). Confirmation record found in Vikedal. (Children normally did not leave home until confirmated.)
Hetland church did not exist at the time Martha was born. I've searched in the Hetland confirmation records for relevant years, no Martha or Jørgine found.
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Einar |
Edited by - eibache on 14/12/2010 13:50:27 |
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eibache
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
6495 Posts |
Posted - 14/12/2010 : 14:17:23
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Førland i Vikedal (red marker), and Meling (blue marker) see
map
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Einar |
Edited by - eibache on 14/12/2010 14:31:03 |
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Searching for Cornelius Hill's roots.
