| Author |
 Topic  |
|
|
gljnelson
Starting member
USA
9 Posts |
 Posted - 23/04/2010 : 00:01:30
|
Hello!
Recently I have decided to try and dive back into searching for some of my family history. As a result of help from all of you, I am rather pleased to announce that I have finally figured out how to manuever through some of the parish records. However, because of the language barrier it is very slow and tedious but I am making progress!
I have been trying to piece together info on Gabriel Zacharias Johannessen and Gjertrude Pernilla Johansdatter and their son Greger Johan Gabrielsen. I have learned quite a bit about their family here in America. I have located all of their death records in Minnesota, USA. I know that they came to America in 1876 (even though they were listed as German on the shipping records). I found Gabriel and Gjertrude in the 1865 Norway Census and believe I have located all of their Christening records in Norway! Hopefully I am on the right path!
I have posted the links below to the various parish records. I was wondering if someone would be willing to take a look at these links and help me understand/decipher some of the handwriting. Thanks!
Entry #13 Gabriel Zakaries
http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:NBN:no-a1450-kb20050427030354.jpg
Source information: Nordland county, Mo (Nord-Rana) in Hemnes, Parish register (official) nr. 827A02 (1826-1841), Birth and baptism records 1830, page 23.
It appears as though his parents are listed as:
Johannes Jensen ??? (I can't figure out the last part)
Gidsken Gabrielsdatter
Entry #8 & 9 Ellen Johanna & Jertru Pernella (it appears they were twins).
http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:NBN:no-a1450-kb20050428020728.jpg
Source information: Nordland county, Hemnes, Parish register (official) nr. 825A08 (1826-1841), Birth and baptism records 1839, page 144-145.
Parents are:
Johan Pedersen Bjurbechdahl
Berith Hansdatter
However, my question is this. What does it say under Ellen's name and what is transcribed in the place where Gjertrude's parents should be listed? Is this different because they were twins?
Entry #4 Marriage between Gabriel Zacharias & Gjertru Pernille Johannessenhttp://www.arkivverket.no/URN:NBN:no-a1450-kb20050428010529.jpg
Source information: Nordland county, Hemnes, Parish register (official) nr. 825A12 (1863-1878), Marriage records 1865, page 6.
What does it say under the marriage date? What farm is listed for Gabriel?
Entry #45 Greger Johan
http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:NBN:no-a1450-kb20071005670009.jpg
Source information: Nordland county, Hemnes, Parish register copy nr. 825C02 (1858-1873), Birth and baptism records 1872, page 214-215.
Can you help me decipher what it says under his Christening Date?
One last question...on the corresponding page of each entry there are several additional names that are usually listed...are these relatives, witnesses, perhaps grandparents? Does anyone know if there is an explanation in English of what each column represents in the Parish records. Perhaps this way I can figure out more info on my own. Sorry for all the questions! And thanks in advance for any help you might be able to offer! |
L Nelson |
|
|
eibache
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
6495 Posts |
Posted - 23/04/2010 : 06:09:06
|
Entry #13 Gabriel Zakaries
Parents Johannes Jensen, Sørnævernæss (Nævernæss søndre in the 1865 census) and Gidsken Gabrilsdatter (should probably have been Gabrielsdatter)
Entry #8 & 9 Ellen Johanna & Jertru Pernella
"Tvillingbarn" written under Ellen means as you have found "Twin children"
For Jertrus parents is written "Samme Forældre" = same parents.
Entry #4 Marriage between Gabriel Zacharias & Gjertru Pernille Johannessen
Under the marriage date is written "Fredag eft 4de Sd e Paaske" which is Fredag efter 4de Søndag efter Paaske =Friday after 4th Sunday after Easter.
Gabriel Zakarias was born at Nævernes (Nævernæss) and was living at Sæteren.
Gabriel and Gjertru in 1865
Entry #45 Greger Johan
Below the christening date it says 6 Søndag efter Paaske = 6th Sunday after Easter.
An online translater which may be helpful.
Lots of info on parish records including headings for different periodes, see here
A tip: when yuo make a link to paris registers use Permanent sidelenke (page link) rather than Permanent bildelenke (image link), that way zooming facilities will be better. |
Einar |
Edited by - eibache on 23/04/2010 07:06:14 |
 |
|
|
Hopkins
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3351 Posts |
Posted - 23/04/2010 : 12:21:32
|
Lori,
A small suggestion. At the Digitalarkivet scanned records the "Permanent sidelenke:" [Norwegian version]/"Permanent pagelink" [English version] is the best line to capture and post if you want to save the exact URL location or share the actual scanned image and the source information. It allows the full capabilities for zooming in and out to best view the image and informs the recipient of the exact location, book and other details to be able to find WHERE you found the information.
The lines you've shared above are the third line "Permanent bildelenke:" [Norwegian version]/"Permanent imagelink" [English version] and are best used to print a copy of the image or to save a copy of the image in a jpg format computer file. This line does NOT also capture the source information and therefore is NOT the best line to copy to share online when requesting help or assistance in deciphering the image found.
A modern translator is handy to have nearby but there are also very useful online lists of older words often found in genealogical documents that you an find under Links above and right on this webpage.
Happy hunting!
|
|
|
|
gljnelson
Starting member
USA
9 Posts |
Posted - 23/04/2010 : 17:13:09
|
Hello! Thank you so much for all of your help and advice! I was excited to figure out how to post a link...now i know which one to use! :) It is also exciting to confirm that Gjertrude is indeed a twin! My grandmother was a twin, so to discover that her great-grandmother is a twin as well is kind of thrilling! Little is known about this side of my family, so as I discover pieces of the puzzle bit by bit it becomes rather addicting! :)
I also appreciate the extra links for guidelines to understanding the parish records. Can you tell me, however, if the names listed in the first column, on the corresponding page of an entry in a parish record, if these particular names are usually family names (i.e. grandparents, aunts, uncles) or are they random family and friends that served as witnesses to the event?
I am also looking for advice on how to piece together families during the early 1800's since there is such a large gap in censuses between 1800 and 1865. For example, because I knew that my grt. grt. grt. grandmother's name was Gjertrude Johansdatter i was able to find her in the Norway 1865 census. With a little bit of luck she still lived in the same vicinity as her parents, and I also discovered that she had at least two sisters (Elen and Helena) and was able to confirm this in the parish records. However, in the case of my grt. grt. grt. grandfather Gabriel, he had moved away from his family. Fortunately, because it listed his place of birth I was able to comb through the parish records and discover who his parents were. At first I was uncertain if I had the right Gabriel, but I am now fairly confident that I do (the US 1900 census had indicated that he was born in Nov of 1829 but I found what I believe to be his birth record listed as Dec 26, 1829). However, because there is such a huge gap in the censuses that were recorded I can not locate him with his family. Short of combing through all the parish records looking for children born of the same parents, are there any other records that were recorded during 1800-1865 that list families together? Or, as in the case with many of the US censuses, was the question ever asked how many children a woman had given birth to/and or how many were still living? I have found some of Gabriel's siblings by luck through the pilot search at familysearch.org but I was wondering if there was a more accurate way of discovering complete family listings for this particualar time frame (1800-1865)? Were there other records that were kept? Any suggestions would be helpful! Thank you again for all of your help! |
L Nelson |
Edited by - gljnelson on 23/04/2010 17:16:00 |
|
|
|
eibache
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
6495 Posts |
Posted - 23/04/2010 : 17:57:08
|
quote:
Can you tell me, however, if the names listed in the first column, on the corresponding page of an entry in a parish record, if these particular names are usually family names (i.e. grandparents, aunts, uncles) or are they random family and friends that served as witnesses to the event?
The persons selected as witnesses depended on the circumstances, place, distance, time etc.
Many times relatives could be found among the witnesses, even brothers and sister who had reached maturity age.
quote:
I was wondering if there was a more accurate way of discovering complete family listings for this particualar time frame (1800-1865)? Were there other records that were kept?
Confirmation records can be a help to establish family members, no census records are accurate, children not born or children confirmated and moved out from the nest.
Parish records are the best tool for searching and confirming info on ancestors. (some has done the work ahead of time, example "Bygdebøker".
quote:
For example, because I knew that my grt. grt. grt. grandmother's name was Gjertrude Johansdatter i was able to find her in the Norway 1865 census. With a little bit of luck she still lived in the same vicinity as her parents, and I also discovered that she had at least two sisters (Elen and Helena) and was able to confirm this in the parish records.
I'd say not only a little bit of luck - this was not common, three sisters living with their husbands and cildren at the same place as their parents who were still alive!
|
Einar |
Edited by - eibache on 23/04/2010 18:27:54 |
|
|
|
eibache
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
6495 Posts |
Posted - 23/04/2010 : 18:34:47
|
You probably know that Johan Pedersen and Berit Maria Hansdatter were married July 6 1828, see #11
Johan was then 29 years old and his father was Peder Johnsen, Biurbæxdal (Bjorbekdal). Berit Maria was 21 years old and her father was Hans Jacobsen, Grønvigmoen.
|
Einar |
|
|
|
gljnelson
Starting member
USA
9 Posts |
Posted - 23/04/2010 : 19:41:43
|
Thank you again for all the help! And no, I have not even started to search the next generation so the info which you provided will be VERY useful. I was still hung up on trying to decide how best to discover all I can about Gabriel and Gjertrude's siblings and completing their immediate families...so thank you! I know I was incredibly lucky with the info I found on Gjertrude's family in the 1865 census...it was like striking a gold mine! Obviously it doesn't mean the circle is complete...she could still have other siblings (as I have discovered once again in the familysearch pilot database) but I'm not very quick on the draw when it comes to finding the research elsewhere and familysearch is simply a starting place. I won't even tell you how many hours it took me to seek out the four links I posted above! But I'm starting to catch on little by little! :)
As far as confirmation records are concerned, excuse my ignorance, but I have never searched the confirmation records because I don't have a clue how to start. At least with a Christening record you can start looking at about the time you suspect an individual was born. However, I am not familiar with the Confirmation process. Is there usually a particular age that a confirmation usually occurs? How do you know about what time frame to start looking? What information is listed on a confirmation record? Thanks again for all of your advise and help!!!! |
L Nelson |
|
|
|
eibache
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
6495 Posts |
Posted - 23/04/2010 : 22:37:45
|
Confirmation usually took place between the age of 14 and 17. The records do not give you much info, just the persons name, the age or or birth date, where born and the name of the parents.
Searching on the parents names can give the childs (siblings) name and age/birth date. It may also be used for easier reading of names depending on the handwriting.
Example: Gabriel Zacharias parents were Johannes Jensen and Gidsken Gabrielsdatter. They were married Nov 29 1820. A child would have been confirmed approx 1835 - 40. A search gave the result that their presumably first child was Jens, see #37. Their next child woul most likely be confirmed 2 years later. Pernille was the next child, see
#73. |
Einar |
Edited by - eibache on 23/04/2010 22:57:31 |
|
|
|
gljnelson
Starting member
USA
9 Posts |
Posted - 26/04/2010 : 17:29:21
|
| Thank You so much for all of the helpful hints! So in otherwords...all of the parish records serve as a check and balance for one another so it is best to search all of them! Just out of curiosity...is there one source that tends to be more reliable than another? What is the difference between the original and a copy? Were the copies reproduced at a later date? If you have the choice between one or the other do you usually use the original or the copy or do you always cross-reference both? Just trying to get a feel as to what is available and become familiar with records from Norway! Thanks! :0) |
L Nelson |
|
|
|
eibache
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
6495 Posts |
Posted - 26/04/2010 : 20:11:15
|
You can get familiar with parish records reading this info.
If you can choose between a Ministerialbok and a Klokkerbok I would choose the one with the nicest handwriting (very often the Klokkerbok). |
Einar |
|
|
|
Hopkins
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3351 Posts |
Posted - 26/04/2010 : 20:25:17
|
I check both if they are available. They don't often disagree - but if that does happen then you should gather ALL of the other evidence you can get.
I also keep careful notes and source citations of ALL of the names, name spellings, locations and dates that I find on every direct line ancestor. I've found that as I've become more experienced with my Norwegian genealogy research some things became clear to me that were confusing in the beginning and for those few others I still have copious notes that should help me in the future and let me explain what I believe based on the preponderance of the evidence. My genealogy software allows me to record more than one name/name variation for each individual.
|
|
|
| |
Topic |
|
|
|
Gabriel Zacharias Johannessen
