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Mari Samuelsen
Starting member
Norway
13 Posts |
 Posted - 14/09/2011 : 08:11:38
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I don't know if his siblings or other family that went to America, I have to check that out. Other than birthdates I have no other information about the rest of his family. I don't know if his wife and daughters had any contact with his side of the family.
All I know is that Thorvald and his family had a farm called Kornbrekke and that this was often refered to as their last name as well as Tønnessen. In the census of 1901 and 1910 Emma and her daughters, who was then living with Emmas father, Jakob, on Landvik farm in Aust-Agder, had taken the surname Kornbrekke.
Mari |
Mari Krogstad Samuelsen |
Edited by - Mari Samuelsen on 14/09/2011 09:00:44 |
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Mari Samuelsen
Starting member
Norway
13 Posts |
Posted - 15/09/2011 : 13:48:20
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Does anyone of you know if there are transcriptions of travels from New York back to Europe, so that we might be able to find when Emma returned to Norway? And since Thorvald seems to have travelled to America at least twice, in 1886 and 1889, there might be transcriptions of his travels from New York to Norway as well.
Here is the information we have so far about their childrens births and the trips to America:
*The children are born at Landvik farm in Aust-Agder, the farm belongs to Emmas father, Jacob.
*Daughter born in 1884
*Jacob born in 1886
*Thorvalds first trip to America in 1886
*Emma and Jacob goes to America 1887, while the daughter possibly stayes behind with the grandparents on the family farm
*Emma comes back to Norway, possibly without Jacob
*Thorvald must have come back to Norway in 1887, at least 9 months before third child is born.
*Daughter born in 1888
*Daughter born in 1889
*Thorvald goes back to America in 1889 and is never heard from again
*Thorvald appears on a naturalization petition from 1896
Mari
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Mari Krogstad Samuelsen |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
Posted - 15/09/2011 : 14:14:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Mari Samuelsen
*Emma and Jacob goes to America 1887, while the daughter possibly stayes behind with the grandparents on the family farm
*Emma comes back to Norway, possibly without Jacob
*Thorvald must have come back to Norway in 1887, at least 9 months before third child is born.
....
*Thorvald goes back to America in 1889 and is never heard from again
...
Mari
The third child could also have been conceived in America during Emma's visit, depending on how long she stayed.
If Thorvald's is the one transcribed in the leavings from Kristiansand in 1889, his residence is listed as "Danmark" Was this his ship or was he actually living in Denmark, or was the clerk thrifty of time and marked all those sailor's residences as "Danmark" to save effort?
Jackie |
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Mari Samuelsen
Starting member
Norway
13 Posts |
Posted - 15/09/2011 : 15:16:12
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We have always wondered why it says that his residence was Denmark at the time. I haven't been able to find any dannish transcriptions of a man called Thorvald Tønnesen, born 1858 in Denmark, yet. Maybe the ship went to Denmark after Kristiansand and he got on board there, or it might have been what you said that the clerk wrote it down to save effort. In the naturalization petition his nationality is listed as scandinavian, however his birthdate and -year fits perfectly with my Thorvald, and considering I haven't been able to locate any other Thorvald Tønnesen born july 5th, 1858, we assumed that this is the right guy.
Yes, maybe the third child was conceived in America before she came back to Norway, but their fourth child, was born a few months after he supposedly went back to America in 1889. In the story that my great-uncle have told us Emma gave birth to a boy after Thorvald had gone to America, and that she took the boy with her to America where the boy somehow disappered. We always assumed that the boy was their last child. Jacob was born on january 11,1886 and a transcripts says that Thorvald came to America in a couple months later.
What is really weird right now is that I just found the name Kittel Andreas Johnson right over Thorvald Tønnesen in the trancript of emmigrants from Kristiansand in 1889, and lyndal40 mentions that he found Emma and Jacob by searching for Kittle Johnson on the transcript from 1887. Maybe I should investigate that connection.
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Mari Krogstad Samuelsen |
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Mari Samuelsen
Starting member
Norway
13 Posts |
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dodgeboy12
RIP
USA
84 Posts |
Posted - 15/09/2011 : 16:44:37
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Hi
It looks like Martha was Emma's sister.
#13
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Mari Samuelsen
Starting member
Norway
13 Posts |
Posted - 15/09/2011 : 16:59:18
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I just purchased a copy of the naturalization petition about Thorvald and there it says that his adress at the time was 82 Neptune Ave, Brooklyn. Is there any way to find out more from this?? Perhaps whether he lived with someone else, or if he moved somewhere else.
Mari |
Mari Krogstad Samuelsen |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
Posted - 16/09/2011 : 18:15:39
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Hi Mari,
If you input the 92 Neptune address at Google a picture of the area today will come up.
Kornbrekke is an extremely rare name in America but when I searched HeritageQuest census it found a Henry Kornbrekke in New York in 1920--he was born in Norway about 1891--perhaps a relative of some kind.
Kittle often becomes a different name in America. Mostly I've seen them become Charles, and Kittle could have become something else as well. Just something to keep in mind.
Did you look at the earlier post of the 1900 census listing for a possible Thorvald? It says he came to US in 1880 which is possible since your Thorvald was a sailing man and you don't have a lot of detail about his whereabouts before he and Emma married.
Jackie M.
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Mari Samuelsen
Starting member
Norway
13 Posts |
Posted - 17/09/2011 : 17:39:01
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I'll see what I can find out about Henry Kornbrekke. I'm not sure if he is a relative considering Kornbrekke is not a very uncommon surname, but maybe we're lucky.
It does look like Thorvald has travelled to America on more than one occation- It makes me wonder if it really was true that he found another wife over there. Even though it's kind of weird that he came back to his wife in Norway and had two more children before he went back and disappeared out of their lives. Kittel came back to Norway again, he is registered in the census of 1900 and 1910. He lived with his wife on a farm close to Emma and her daughters.
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Mari Krogstad Samuelsen |
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jwiborg
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
4961 Posts |
Posted - 17/09/2011 : 23:39:00
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Henrik Kornbrække, born in Lillesand, Aust-Agder on 27 Jan 1892. Parents Henning Johannesen & Nicoline Knudsen.
Jan Peter |
Edited by - jwiborg on 17/09/2011 23:41:09 |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
Posted - 22/05/2019 : 11:52:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Mari Samuelsen
Thank you all for helping me!
Some of the information does fit very well with the story told by my great-uncle. Feels like we're getting closer to the truth.
The biggest part of the story was that my great great grandmother had their son with her to America, and after the arguement Thorvald kidnapped the son and left Emma all alone. It is said that when she returned to Norway without her son his name was never mentioned again. But since we couldn't find anything about their son, we didn't believe that part. If he did kidnap his son it's kind of weird that he came back to his wife and then had two daughters born in 1888 and 1889. Maybe the son died while they where there.....
I'm not sure if Thorr Tonnesen is my Thorvald, because he came to America in february of 1889, but there has been stories about him beeing a sailor. In the naturalization petition from 1896 it says that his occupation was carpenter. In the migration papers from 1889 he is listed as a danish sailor though. In the christening documents concerning his son Jakob he is listed with the occupation maskinist, which in english can mean both engineer (within shipping) or machinist.
Another thing my great-uncle also said was that Thorvald moved from New York and possibly changed his surname. I've found at least two other Thorvald Tonnesen or Tønnesen that came to America, so it''s difficult to say which one of them became Thomas Thompson, but it's worth checking out.
Mari
A possible datewise names are different and the birthplace in Norway is not a match or is strange:
Name Jacob Thompson
Event Type Death
Event Date 15 Jun 1887
Event Place Manhattan, New York, New York, United States
Residence Place New York, New York
Gender Male
Age 1
Marital Status Single
Race White
Birth Year (Estimated) 1886
Birthplace Lanisvia, Sosken, Norway
Burial Date 16 Jun 1887
Burial Place New York, New York
Cemetery Lutheran
Father's Name Jacob Thompson
Father's Birthplace Lanisvig, Sosken, Norway, Europe
Mother's Name Emma Thompson
Mother's Birthplace Lanisvig, Sosken, Norway, Europe
Citing this Record
"New York, New York City Municipal Deaths, 1795-1949," database, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2WV9-3CS : 10 February 2018), Jacob Thompson, 15 Jun 1887; citing Death, Manhattan, New York, New York, United States, New York Municipal Archives, New York; FHL microfilm 1,412,491.
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
Posted - 22/05/2019 : 11:59:24
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quote:
Originally posted by jwiborg
When did he emigrate? About 1880?
A Thorvald Tallersen, born Aug 1857 in Norway can be found in the 1900-census for New York City, Kings, New York,
He is listed as widowed, and Immigration Year 1880
#86
Jan Peter
Possibly Jan Peter's find in 1910:
Name Thorwald Talleson
Event Type Census
Event Date 1910
Event Place Brooklyn Ward 12, Kings, New York, United States
Gender Male
Age 53
Marital Status Widowed
Race White
Race White
Relationship to Head of Household Head
Relationship to Head of Household Head
Birth Year (Estimated) 1857
Birthplace Norway
Immigration Year 1898
Father's Birthplace Norway
Mother's Birthplace Norway
Sheet Letter A
Sheet Number 6
Household Role Sex Age Birthplace
Thorwald Talleson Head M 53 Norway
James A Talleson Son M 22 Norway
Frank Talleson Son M 18 New York
Citing this Record
"United States Census, 1910," database with images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M59B-DNR : accessed 22 May 2019), Thorwald Talleson, Brooklyn Ward 12, Kings, New York, United States; citing enumeration district (ED) ED 257, sheet 6A, family 95, NARA microfilm publication T624 (Washington D.C.: National Archives and Records Administration, 1982), roll 963; FHL microfilm 1,374,976.
Appears to be his death at itallian gen group:
3018109 Talleson Tharivald 60 y Oct 5 1918 28330 Manhattan T425
familysearch.org version of the New York death record:
Name Harwald Valleson
Event Type Death
Event Date 05 Oct 1918
Event Place Manhattan, New York, New York, United States
Address 111 First Pl.
Residence Place New York, New York
Gender Male
Age 60
Marital Status Married
Race White
Occupation Orderly
Birth Year (Estimated) 1858
Birthplace Norway
Burial Date 10 Oct 1918
Cemetery Greenwood Cemetery
Father's Name Carl
Father's Birthplace Norway
Mother's Name Sallin
Mother's Birthplace Norway
Citing this Record
"New York, New York City Municipal Deaths, 1795-1949," database, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2WC1-KNM : 10 February 2018), Harwald Valleson, 05 Oct 1918; citing Death, Manhattan, New York, New York, United States, New York Municipal Archives, New York; FHL microfilm 1,322,432.
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Edited by - jkmarler on 22/05/2019 14:10:49 |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
Posted - 22/05/2019 : 16:24:22
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Interesting here is Thorvald in 1891 census with a supposed residence in New York:
001 Torvold Kristian Tønnesen 1 1858 v. Moland sogn - Familiens overhode g -
002 Emma Elevine Jacobsdtr 000 1864 Landvig - Hustru g -
003 Tea Tomine Torvoldsdtr 000 1884 Landvik - Datter - -
004 Inger Johanne Torvoldsdtr 000 1888 Landvik - Datter - -
005 Thora Amanda Torvoldsdtr 000 1889 sept. Landvik - Datter - -
006 Kaja Henriksdatter 000 1860 Landvik - Tjenestetyende ug -
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/census/person/pf01052872000833
But Emma's birthplace given as Landvik which is pretty close to the parental birthplaces in the Jacob Thompson death in New York.
Torvold outmigrating Lillesand in 1881 moving to Landvig:
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/291/pu00000000142954 |
Edited by - jkmarler on 22/05/2019 16:29:02 |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
Posted - 22/05/2019 : 16:47:38
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Of the 532 males born 1856-1859 Norway counted in the New York 1892, this is about the closest to Thorwald Tonneson and it is a scramble. He is a "mate":
Name Lowald Johnerson
Event Date 1892
Event Place Brooklyn, Ward 08, E.D. 21
Age 34
Gender Male
Birthplace Norway
Birth Year (Estimated) 1858
Citizenship Status Alien
Citing this Record
"New York State Census, 1892," database with images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MQ3X-L98 : 11 March 2018), Lowald Johnerson, 1892; citing Brooklyn, Ward 08, E.D. 21, county offices, New York; FHL microfilm 1,930,230.
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
Posted - 22/05/2019 : 19:28:53
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In the damaged names category there aren't many Thorwald or Thorwald like names in the New York City Death 1795-1949 databased:
Name Therwald Jorgensen
Event Type Death
Event Date 05 May 1895
Event Place Brooklyn, Kings, New York, United States
Residence Place Brooklyn
Gender Male
Age 39
Marital Status Single
Race White
Occupation Sailor
Birth Year (Estimated) 1856
Birthplace Norway
Burial Date 06 May 1895
Cemetery Co Farms
Father's Birthplace Norway
Mother's Birthplace Norway
Citing this Record
"New York, New York City Municipal Deaths, 1795-1949," database, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2WXR-9GW : 10 February 2018), Therwald Jorgensen, 05 May 1895; citing Death, Brooklyn, Kings, New York, United States, New York Municipal Archives, New York; FHL microfilm 1,323,932.
Name Thorwald Borge
Event Type Death
Event Date 03 Aug 1900
Event Place New York City, Richmond, New York, United States
Gender Male
Age 43
Marital Status Unknown
Race White
Occupation Seaman
Birth Year (Estimated) 1857
Birthplace Norway
Burial Date 06 Aug 1900
Cemetery County Farms
Citing this Record
"New York, New York City Municipal Deaths, 1795-1949," database, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2W59-7J3 : 10 February 2018), Thorwald Borge, 03 Aug 1900; citing Death, New York City, Richmond, New York, United States, New York Municipal Archives, New York; FHL microfilm 1,322,794.
Name Thorwald Olsen
Event Type Death
Event Date 05 Jun 1907
Event Place Manhattan, New York, New York, United States
Gender Male
Age 48
Marital Status Married
Race White
Occupation Floorlayer
Birth Year (Estimated) 1859
Birthplace Norway
Burial Date 08 Jun 1907
Cemetery St. Michaels Cem.
Father's Name Olaf Olsen
Father's Birthplace Norway
Mother's Name Christina Jacobson
Mother's Birthplace Norway
Citing this Record
"New York, New York City Municipal Deaths, 1795-1949," database, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2W97-D91 : 10 February 2018), Thorwald Olsen, 05 Jun 1907; citing Death, Manhattan, New York, New York, United States, New York Municipal Archives, New York; FHL microfilm 1,323,154.
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thorvald christian tønnessen in USA
