| Author |
 Topic  |
|
JaneC
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3020 Posts |
 Posted - 30/05/2013 : 00:12:37
|
| But how is the American family tracing George E. Olstad to Oppland? The Ancestry.com family tree cites the source "Tales and Treasures of Our Family" for his birth, so perhaps his Norwegian roots are family knowledge. |
Edited by - JaneC on 30/05/2013 02:57:27 |
 |
|
|
JaneC
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3020 Posts |
Posted - 30/05/2013 : 00:37:13
|
The creator of this Find a Grave Memorial is one of the American family who has posted a family tree that includes George E. Olstad and Hans Engebretsen Olstad - for their sister Karin.
Karin Engebretsdatter
Birth: Jan. 20, 1850, Vestre Gausdal, Oppland County, Norway
Death: Aug. 18, 1926 in Barron County, Wisconsin, USA
LINK:
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=46067353 |
Edited by - JaneC on 30/05/2013 00:40:42 |
|
|
|
AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9301 Posts |
|
|
JaneC
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3020 Posts |
Posted - 30/05/2013 : 04:10:24
|
The family must be using private family knowledge, or the family has a public record we do not have.
We have no American record tying these people together in the USA: Hans in South Dakota, George in Minnesota, and Karin in Wisconsin.
We have no American record tying George to the birth record in Norway. There is more than one place called Olstad. No American record we have gives his middle name "E" as Engebretsen. No American record we have gives his birth day-month-year. The 1900 census gives a month and year, but it gives the wrong year (it says born 1857 not 1855). Anyway, a census is not a terribly reliable source. We have no American record that gives George's parents' names. George's death record, as transcribed on Family Search, gives his father's name as "Olstad." We can guess that the transcriber did not forget to write down the father's given name. We can guess the original record gives the name only as "Olstad."
Yes, the family member who created the family tree that is best sourced DID use the Digital Arkivet. The tree gives that source with exact citation. But what led the family tree creator to that record in the Digital Arkivet? Either private family knowledge, or a public record we do not have.
As an example, let's say we have a USA resident "John Smith born March 1857 in England." We go to England's records and find a John Smith born in March 1855 in England. We then write down his birth day-month-year in our family tree, and add his parents' as the parents in our family tree. There - now our tree matches the records in England. But it does not mean it is the right John Smith.
Anyway, it is easy to ask, since the family tree creator has posted contact information on Find a Grave. |
Edited by - JaneC on 30/05/2013 04:37:00 |
|
|
|
jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
Posted - 30/05/2013 : 05:20:06
|
Of course we haven't seen all the family tree posters documentation, so you are correct about that.
But the odds are greatly unlikely that there is another different George. In the 1865 census at the digitalarkivet searching for any with the given name beginning "georg", then last name containing "bret" finds only 3 in the whole country:
1. a 6 year old boy on Tilrum farm in Brøno, Nordland
2. a 21 year old on Svedal farm in Lexvigen, Nord Trøndelag
3. the George Engebretson already discussed on Olstad farm in Gausdal, Oppland
Granted that there are other possible spellings, ingel____, and those that spell brigt or brik instead of bret. Those could be vetted too. There is also no way to know comprehensively those who for whatever reason were something else in Norway and chose to become George in America. And yes there are many Olstad farms.
The one from Gausdal definitely did go in 1878 and was recorded as destined to Sioux Falls, Minnehaha county, Dakota. Circumstantially interesting since Hans Alstad / Olstad ended up there instead of Madelia where he was initially recorded as destined to in 1880.
As interesting as all of this is to us hunters, all of this is kind of academic since the original querist hasn't expressed interest in Georg. |
|
|
|
JaneC
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3020 Posts |
Posted - 30/05/2013 : 06:31:14
|
> "In the 1865 census at the digitalarkivet searching for any with the given name beginning "georg", then last name containing "bret" finds only 3 in the whole country." <
But our records in the USA for Georg do not contain the syllable "bret" - so why would our theoretical American family member be parsing Norwegian records with the syllable "bret"? He/she wouldn't - unless he/she has family knowledge or a public record we don't have.
MINNESOTA DEATH RECORD as found on Family Search
Name: George E. Olstad
1900 census, 1920 census George Olstad
No "Engebretsen" - no "bret"
Where you are seeing the name "Engebretsen," no source is noted - the only source is the family tree itself.
> "There is also no way to know comprehensively those who for whatever reason were something else in Norway and chose to become George in America. And yes there are many Olstad farms." <
BINGO
I am only making an obvious point that is true in every search - a family tree found online is not proof. This family tree we're discussing looks like a credible tree, and I indeed suspect the information is correct, but the documentation for the tie from USA to Norway is not there - not seen by us in the case of George. The tree refers to a document called "Tales and Treasures of Our Family." That is a homemade document - family knowledge - and I've not seen it.
Usually we say "Order the marriage certificate" or "Order the death certificate" to get the birth day-month-year and/or the parents' names. I am puzzled and kind of laughing (at both of us) that you are questioning and we are haggling over this standard operating procedure here, now.
I agree that this belaboring of this point is not addressing the interests of the querist. ( I like that word "querist" by the way. We need a word for she/he - who - posts - query. LOL)
Bottom line re George is: probably he is correctly identified, BUT we have no proof of that.
|
Edited by - JaneC on 30/05/2013 06:51:34 |
|
|
|
jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
Posted - 30/05/2013 : 09:19:18
|
Circumstantial cases are harder and more involved to develop, you end up taking twice as many steps to get them to work than
directly provable. And you can develop information based on a theory and get overwhelming amounts which can also be used to prove a point.
Hans' known siblings who came to America from the utflyttedes of Svadsum :
1.Georg 1878
2. Peter 1880
3. Karen 1880
4. Olaus 1880
5. Marie 1882
Hans died before George and Karen, perhaps, if he had an obituary all the others still living would be mentioned. That's an opportunity that exists with the death of each one |
|
|
|
JaneC
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3020 Posts |
Posted - 30/05/2013 : 14:46:16
|
| Absolutely. Yes! Next step for tkoller could be to contact the creator of that excellent family tree on Ancestry (via Find a Grave contact info). The creator might have one or more of those obits. It's highly likely the family knows these people in the USA are siblings. Their relationship is not exactly ancient history. There may be family stories, photographs, letters, visits back and forth, Christmas cards, etc. The document "Tales and Treasures of Our Family" suggests an interest in preserving such memories and mementos. |
|
|
|
tkoller
Medium member
Norway
89 Posts |
Posted - 30/05/2013 : 20:08:33
|
Thanks to all of You.
It is most Ida Olstad and har brother that are interesting for me while
I am from that family. My grand grandma was the sister of Ida and Sivert.
I thint I will go back to the lokal archive one tuesday I have off and look there. Again Thanks. |
tarokol |
|
|
|
JaneC
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3020 Posts |
Posted - 30/05/2013 : 23:56:17
|
Oh, okay - this will be the last on the Olstads then.
1909 Charter Members / Founders of Gudbransdal lag
Charter Members from Vestre Gausdal:
Aanrud, Olaus I. - Amherst Junction, Wisconsin
Amundson, Peter - Martelle, Wisconsin - Emigrated 1880
Amundson, Mrs. Peter (Anne Jacobsdatter from Stavanger) - Martelle, Wisconsin
Brun, Ingvold - 227 Cedar, Minneapolis, Minnesota
Bruvang, Ivar - 614 8th St So, Minneapolis, Minnesota - Emigrated 1909
Dahl, A.A. (Snertingdalen) - Sand Creek, Wisconsin
Hong, P.K. - Clarissa, Minnesota
Hole, A.O. - Amherst Junction, Wisconsin
Kalstad, Even Petersen - Amherst Junction, Wisconsin - Emigrated 1879
Kalstad, Mrs. E.P. (Karen Forseth) - Amherst Junction, Wisconsin - Emigrated 1892
Letkvam, M.O. (Hakkerud) - New Hope, Wisconsin
Olstad, Peder E. - Died 17 February 1910 <-----------------------------------------------------
Pedersen, Amund - Beldenville, Wisconsin
Ryhn, John - Minneapolis, Minnesota
Ryhn, Manda P. - Stillwater, Minnesota
Ryhn, P.J. - 409 Sherburne St, Stillwater, Minnesota
Simonsen, Tom - 221 2nd St So, Minneapolis, Minnesota
Svensrud, John - 2608 8th St So, Minneapolis, Minnesota
Svensrud, Mrs. John - 2608 8th St So, Minneapolis, Minnesota
Winger, Sven - Spring Valley, Wisconsin
Description of GUDBRANDSDALSLAGET at NAHA website:
http://www.naha.stolaf.edu/pubs/nas/volume18/vol18_7.htm
MORE:
http://www.werelate.org/wiki/Gudbrandsdalslaget_Charter_Member_Project
Some Peter E Olstad children birth records from Family Search (looking for the name Engebretsen):
Alfred Ingwald Olstad
Birth Date: 12 Sep 1893
Birthplace: Minneapolis, Hennepin, Minnesota
Death Date: Name Note: see also image #313
Race: White
Father's Name: Peter E. Olstad
Father's Birthplace: Norway
Father's Age: 35y
Mother's Name: Anne Olstad
Mother's Birthplace: Norway
Mother's Age: 29y
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C03831-6System Origin: Minnesota-EASyGS Film number: 1498830
Name: Henrik Or Henry Oden Olstad
Gender: Male
Birth Date: 30 Aug 1896
Birthplace: Minneapolis, Hennepin, Minnesota
Race: White
Father's Name: Peter E. Olstad
Father's Birthplace: Norway
Father's Age: 38y
Mother's Name: Anna Olstad
Mother's Birthplace: Norway
Mother's Age: 33y
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C74595-2System Origin: Minnesota-EASyGS Film number: 1498838 |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
|
|
Ida and Hans Engebregtsen
