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SandraSeverson
Senior member
USA
267 Posts |
 Posted - 09/10/2013 : 02:18:53
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| Jane- thanks for all the information. It will be interesting to see what I find out on my trip. I will let you know when I get back. I only have one day this time to find what I want. But it's only about 3 hours from where I live so I can easily go back another day. Thanks again for all your research . |
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JaneC
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3020 Posts |
Posted - 10/10/2013 : 01:49:35
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Decided to add a few things I didn't post before (since you probably have). As you can see, I find it all very interesting and couldn't leave it alone. :D
Anders and Soren are mentioned as having fought in the Civil War in this book: “Nordmaendene i Amerika” by Martin Ulvestad (Ole Johannes Martinus Ulvestad), publ. 1907, History Book Co., Minneapolis MN. As you know this is a well-respected source for information about Norwegian immigrants.
KJENDALEN, Anders
From Eidanger, Norway. Civil War: Private. Post war: Died in Scandinavia, Wisconsin (before 1907) Source: (Ulvestad p 301)
KJENDALEN, Soren
From Eidanger, Norway. Civil War: Private. Post war: Lived in Elberon, Wisconsin. Source: (Ulvestad p 301)
Another mention of Soren here:
KJELDALEN, Soren
Civil War: Private. "Soren Kjeldalen, who had just come home from the Civil war and wanted to start life anew in Minnesota." Sources: ("Wisconsin, My Home" by Erna Oleson Xan, p 30)
This is probably Ole:
"Lumberman Olaves Jakobson Kjendalen built the first house in the settlement [of Elderon]" SOURCE: "Indian Land" by Lester Peyerson
Same source: "With the help of Olaves J. Kjendalen, they built a saw mill on the creek south of the house."
http://genealogytrails.com/wis/marathon/history/indianland.htm
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Edited by - JaneC on 10/10/2013 02:14:20 |
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SandraSeverson
Senior member
USA
267 Posts |
Posted - 10/10/2013 : 02:28:46
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| Jane- we are leaving tomorrow morning early for Scandinavia, WI and Waupaca, WI. I hope the court house in Waupaca can tell me where the Kjendalen homestead is. You have really given me a lot of information and I so much appreciate it. Will let you know what I find out. Thanks again. |
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SandraSeverson
Senior member
USA
267 Posts |
Posted - 12/10/2013 : 23:49:23
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Jane - came back very confused in trying to find info on Jacob Pederson Kjendalen . Could not find his death certificate at the Waupaca Court House. So I looked up what I could find on his daughter, Marthe Maria Jacobsdatter born 21 Mar 1824 in Eidanger as far as I can find out. I think I found her birth record on the digital archives but it is so faint I can't be sure. As for her death in Scandinavia, WI I did find the death certificate. The problem is that the cert lists Jacob Jacobsen for her father and Marthe Jacobsen for her mother. The information I got for her parents came from a family tree that was done by a family member in 1972. In it she said the following: "On 27 Dec 1854, Christian Olson married Marthe Maria Jacobsdatter in Scandinavia, Waupaca County, WI. Marthe Maria Jacobsdatter, 21 Mar 1824 in Norway, daughter of Jacob Pedersen Kjendalen and wife Kari (Karen) Olsdatter from Eidanger. The family emigrated between 1850-1854 from Eidanger. This writer also has several pages on the Kjendalen family. ". End of quote. I have not been able to talk to the writer of this tree or her family as of yet.
There are a lot of Kjendalen people in that area. Looked at plat maps and found several parcels owned by different men of that family. Found the gravestone that was listed on Find A Grave and took pictures of front and back. It didn't give me any more clues. The county treasurer there told me there is someone who may be able to help me. I just have to try and contact him.
So that is where I am at with this. Other than trying to contact a member of the Kjendalen family when I find him or trying to talk the the writer of the family tree, I don't know where else to look.
Again thanks for your help with this and will keep you posted on any new developments. |
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JaneC
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3020 Posts |
Posted - 13/10/2013 : 03:30:36
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Hi Sandra, Thanks so much for writing with an update. I'm curious about your focus on Marthe Jacobsdatter (also known as Martha Jacobsen Kjendalen). Is she your husband's ancestor? Your opening query suggests you had already investigated the family back to the point of Jacob Pedersen Kjendalen.
Back in an edit - I had written more, but instead let's see about the answer to the above question first, along with asking you to post a transcription of the death record you found. The birth date listed in it should match the birth date in Norway.
There is much searching in primary sources yet to be done to confirm the brief sketch of the family in this thread. |
Edited by - JaneC on 13/10/2013 12:56:10 |
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eibache
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
6495 Posts |
Posted - 13/10/2013 : 09:54:43
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quote:
Marthe Maria Jacobsdatter born 21 Mar 1824 in Eidanger as far as I can find out.
- yes she is, see #7 (good eyes are needed).
Her confirmation record confirms she was baptized April 11, #12.
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Einar |
Edited by - eibache on 14/10/2013 18:02:45 |
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SandraSeverson
Senior member
USA
267 Posts |
Posted - 13/10/2013 : 13:52:23
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Einer - the link came through for 1843 for her birth. I did see her baptism. I noticed the baptism said Marthe Maria Kjendalen. I thought she was Marthe Maria Jacobsdatter. So would Kjendalen be a farm name. The premise I have been going on the is that her father was Jacob. Pedersen Kjendalen. The birth record I was looking at was on page 37 record
#7. That one is so faint I am not completely sure of it. |
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JaneC
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3020 Posts |
Posted - 13/10/2013 : 14:07:08
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Note about where to look and other thoughts:
* "Kristian Olson married 2nd time to Marta Kjendalen" Source: Indian Land: Organization of Townships, Lists of Early Settlers. by Thor Helgeson (1842-1928) published 1915.
* Find a Grave, burial in Scandinavia Cemetery: Martha Olson, born 21 Mar 1824, died 05 Jan 1913. These dates are inscribed on tombstone shared with Christian Olson. She is noted as "His Wife"
* Find a Grave, burial in Scandinavia Cemetery: Christian Olson, born 17 Nov 1826, died 13 Mar 1914. Note on the memorial says "Husb. of ________and Martha." Is this comment a tombstone inscription also? (I don't see it in the photo in front of me)
* Find a Grave memorials suggest that the Jacob Kjendalen offspring sometimes were called by the name Kjendalen and sometimes the name Jacobson, which adds to our impression that both names were used while these people lived. This variation is normal within the traditional Norwegian naming system. Bear in mind that Marte was born circa 1824 and siblings were near in age; it makes sense for them to be "old fashioned" about their names. You have many many records to search for to establish that this impression (that Kjendalen and Jacobsen are interchangeable) is correct.
* In checking children of Christian and Martha Mary Olson first birth record I found gives her name as Martha Jacobson.
* From your family tree: "On 27 Dec 1854, Christian Olson married Marthe Maria Jacobsdatter in Scandinavia, Waupaca County, WI." Therefore a marriage record survived, at least to 1972; It should tell Marthe's parents' names to confirm the already substantial findings of her immigration record and birth record.
* From the immigration record in 1852 with Marthe Marie age 28 you can extrapolate that she was born ca 1824.
* Christian died 1914 and Marthe 1913; at these late dates (modern times) you can hope to find obituaries in a local newspaper that may well be available on microfilm in the local historical society.
* Birth and death and marriage records for their children, and obituaries for their children, may name Martha. You would expect to find the name Jacobsen, Jacobsdatter, or Kjendalen. For example, their son Isaac Andrew Olson was born 21 May 1865 and died 04 March 1944 and is buried in Scandinavia Cemetery w wife Regina.
* Realize that informants make mistakes on death records. An American-born informant on Marthe's death record could expect his mother/his relative, who was a woman named Martha Jacobsen, to have a father named Jacobsen. At least two living descendants of this family have created "Jacobson" memorials on Find a Grave for Kjendalen offspring; Marthe's informant could fall into the same category, of a descendant more familiar with the name Jacobson (Jacobsons FROM Kjendalen).
* "Kjendalen, Martha Marie, page 49" appears in the index of the book From The Indian Land by Malcolm Rosholt, published 1985 by Krause Publications, Inc. Did you look at this in the local library or historical society archives?
* "Olson, Marthe Kjendalen, page 56" appears in the index of the same book by Malcolm Rosholt; you'll want to read this entry
* "Olson, Christian" appears in the index, same book by Malcolm Rosholt, on pages 1, 2, 3, 26, 35, 41, 53, 58, 68, 70, 87, 94, 95, 101, 102, 126, 201. Need to look at those entries.
* Need census records for Marthe and Christian.A Christian Olson shows up in 1855 WI census in St. Lawrence, Waupaca and in 1875 in Scandinavia.
Here's 1880 US federal census:
Scandinavia, Waupaca, Wisconsin
Christian Olson 54 b about 1826 in Norway
M. Maria Olson 56 b about 1824 in Norway
Jacob Olson 21 b about 1859 in Wisconsin
Gurine Olson 19 b abt 1861 Wisconsin
Isac Olson 15 b abt 1865 Wisconsin
Josephine Olson 12 b abt 1868 Wisconsin
Clara Olson 9 b abt 1871 Wisconsin
She is "Mary" in 1910 census; she and Christian are living with son Isaac.
* The wills/probates of Martha, Christian (or their children) may be available at the local historical society and may hold further information.
* Remember that inconsistencies and conflicts arise in genealogy as a matter of course. The task is to weigh a given fact - a possible mistake - against the preponderance of evidence. |
Edited by - JaneC on 13/10/2013 15:17:34 |
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SandraSeverson
Senior member
USA
267 Posts |
Posted - 13/10/2013 : 14:13:18
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Jane - the reason I was looking at Jacobs daughter, Marthe Maria Jacobsdatter, was to see if the parents name on her death certificate matched what I had seen in a relatives family tree where the name Jacob Pedersen Kjendalen and Kari Olsdatter were listed as her parents. As the birth record for Marthe in Norway was so faint I wasn't completely sure of the parents name. So when I found the death cert it said her parents were Jacob Jacobsen and Marthe Jacobsen. That didn't make sense to me. There was no information at all on the death of Jacob Pedersen Kjendalen at the court house. Maybe I am looking to deep into this and should just accept what my husbands relative had in the tree she did. I try to find my own proof of everything I put down. The person did not give sources for each record in her type written tree. It just gave a paragraph at the beginning that says where she found the records. like just saying the Norwegian Archives. This was back in 1972 and she must have written to Norway to find the information. Hope this explains why I was looking at Marthe. I did read all the links you have sent me. I even found Silver Lake where Kjendalens owned land on the north side of it. There were at least 3 plats I found on the plat map owned by the family.
So in a nutshell I guess I want to be sure that this Jacob Pedersen Kjendalen is really the father of my husbands gg grandmother Marthe. I wish I had been able to find Jacobs death certificate. I have probably made this more difficult than it should have been. Hope this explains things to you.
And I did get a picture of the gravestone for Jacob, front and back. |
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JaneC
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3020 Posts |
Posted - 13/10/2013 : 14:20:46
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quote:
Originally posted by SandraSeverson
I noticed the baptism said Marthe Maria Kjendalen. I thought she was Marthe Maria Jacobsdatter. So would Kjendalen be a farm name.
Yes each person in Norway had a given name + a patronymic name + a place name/farm name (in this case, Kjendalen). The patronymic name is the father's name + sen or + datter. A Norwegian woman kept the name she was born with, even after marriage.
In the USA Norwegian immigrant families had to settle on a permanent, family surname as per US custom. The offspring of Jacob Pedersen (Kjendalen) seemed to choose the farm name "Kjendalen" but yet there are signs that they also used their patronymic name.
Would be good to see a transcription of the death record you found.
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Edited by - JaneC on 13/10/2013 15:02:57 |
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JaneC
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3020 Posts |
Posted - 13/10/2013 : 14:28:41
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> "I try to find my own proof of everything I put down." < Absolutely.
> "I have probably made this more difficult than it should have been." < Not at all.
> "I wish I had been able to find Jacobs death certificate." <
Well, maybe Marthe was the informant on his death certificate. If not, his death record would only establish Jacob's parents (if they are named), not his children. It would also prove he died in Wisconsin (contrary to the reported death in Norway). But you don't want to jump ahead to details of Jacob's life. The task you are currently on is to establish who are Martha's parents.
Rather than a death record, Jacob's obituary and his will (if they exist) would more likely name his children.
Did Martha's death record give her day-month-year of birth? I would expect it did, since the date is inscribed on her tombstone (in other words, her family knew her birth date). Her day-month-year of birth and her name of Martha Jacobsdatter leads you to a birth record for a girl of that name born in Norway on the farm Kjendalen. You found a girl of that name and age immigrating to Wisconsin with a constellation of people named Jacobsen Kjendalen. You found the same constellation of people named Jacobsen Kjendalen living in Scandinavia, Wisconsin, where your Martha lived. You found a reference in a history book stating that Marta Kjendalen married Christian Olsen. You have indications that her brothers used both Jacobson and Kjendalen. The birth record of one of Marthe Maria's children gives her name as Jacobson. You have census records that support the name and age. It's a lot of evidence about her identity.
If I were you, I would be guessing you have indeed identified Matha Maria Jacobsdatter Kjendalen correctly, regardless of that death record (bearing in mind we haven't yet seen what it said). From what you've reported, it reflects typical American mistakes on death records of Norwegian Americans. Then I would gather all the primary source material and original records I could to further substantiate the findings to date.
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Edited by - JaneC on 13/10/2013 15:46:11 |
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SandraSeverson
Senior member
USA
267 Posts |
Posted - 13/10/2013 : 16:05:56
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I thought about whether the informant on the death cert just didn't know for sure. I saw that in one other death cert I have a copy of. Thor Christian Olson was married the first time to Olena Larsdatter Hasle. She died in 1850 in Scandinavia, WI shortly giving birth to a daughter. There was no cemetery in Scandinavia at that time so she was buried in a field on the Hasler farm by Peterson's Mill.
I am going to go back to all the links you have given me and print out all the pages so it's easier to look back at and highlife info. |
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eibache
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
6495 Posts |
Posted - 13/10/2013 : 16:44:54
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Jakob Olsen Kjendalen, emigrating in 1852 was actually Jakob Pedersen.
Here is some parish records:
Jakob Olsen, Kjendalen = Jakob Pedersen, he married Marthe Marie Pedersdatter, Solum Sept 18 1812, #16
daughters 1st marriage:
Maren Berthea Jakobsdatter, Nov 19 1815, #24
Marthe Maria Jakobsdatter July 2 1818, #14.
Widower Jakob Pedersen, Kiendalen married Karen Olsdatter, Aaklungen Sept 10 1819, #7.
Children from 2nd marriage:
sons:
Ole Jakobsen (32) Nov 22 1820, #25
wife Lene Olsdatter (32)
marriage Oct 1 1841, #7
children:
Karen Marie, Oct 19 1842, #2
Ina Olea, June 7 1845, #21
Jakob, Aug 27 1847, #46
Ole Petter, Nov 13 1849, #9
Anders Jakobsen, Dec 4 1827, #24
Søren Jakobsen, Febr 4 1831, #9
daughters:
Marthe Marie Jakobsdatter, March 21 1824, #7
Ragnhild Maria Jakobsdatter, Oct 20 1834, #49
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Einar |
Edited by - eibache on 13/10/2013 16:56:03 |
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JaneC
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3020 Posts |
Posted - 13/10/2013 : 23:47:38
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Wow, wonderful.
This information from eibache is key. It confirms that the family in Norway matches the family in Scandinavia, Waupaca, Wisconsin. The birth dates in Norway match the birth dates in Wisconsin. Eibache also confirms the opinion that the immigration record you found is correct for this family. It is comforting to have this expert corroboration.
The first Marthe Maria Jakobsdatter b 1818 (mentioned above) died young (in 1821 per online family tree). The second Marthe Maria Jakobsdatter is "your" Martha, Sandra. It was common for parents to name a child after an earlier child who died..
Sandra, will you please make a transcription of the death certificate you found for Marthe? (type up everything it says and post in this thread).
It is now certain that Jacob Pedersen's daughter Marthe Maria Jakobsdatter b 21 March 1824 immigrated and lived in Scandinavia, Wisconsin, and (per the birth date inscribed on her tombstone shared with her husband as well as a reference in a 1915 history book) she is surely the Martha who married Christian Olsen.
P.S. And yes Christian Olson/ Kristian Olsen is called "Thor Christian Olson" in at least one record I noticed on Ancestry.com (but we weren't researching him and I didn't note it) so it makes sense that you found his name that way.
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Edited by - JaneC on 14/10/2013 00:05:21 |
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SandraSeverson
Senior member
USA
267 Posts |
Posted - 14/10/2013 : 00:38:20
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Jane - I didn't write down everything that was in the death record. But on Monday I will order the official copy of it. I think I can call the court house and get it from them. It would be good to have a real copy of it for my files anyway. We were running out of time as we had several other stops to make.
I am so excited to have what I thought was correct confirmed and to see all the information you people have given me. I could fill a ring binder with all the information I have now. I wish there had been something to see when we went past the land Jacob had owned. Just a newer home and barn that had burned down. It was not the original buildings. The family name who owns the land now was a name I saw mentioned in one of the links you gave me. That is so cool. It will take me a while to make the notes on everything in the stories and history links. I would like to condense the information to put in the tree. On the plat book I saw at least 4 parcels thar had the Kjendalen name. No first names only initials. I think 3 were 20 acre parcels and one 40 acre.
So as soon as I get the record I will put all of what it says in a post. I wish I had gotten a copy when I was in the court house. Hopefully it won't take too long to get it.
I want to thank both you and eibache for all the help and information you have given. |
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Jacob Pedersen
