| Author |
 Topic  |
|
|
iankind
Starting member
Canada
8 Posts |
 Posted - 11/10/2013 : 18:22:26
|
S.S. STORSTAD
The collier Storstad was a vessel of 6,000 tons constructed by Messrs Armstrong, Whitworth and Company Limited at Newcastle-on-Tyne in 1910. The ship was 440' in length, 58.1' at the beam, and had a depth of 28'8" and a mean draft of 25'6" when loaded. Her hull was painted black, and on each side of the tall, amidships black-painted funnel was a large white "K", signifying her ownership by the Norwegian Klavenes Line.
Historian is looking for any information from descendant about this ship during its career from 1910 to 1917 when the vessel was torpedo off the coast of Ireland. The Storstad was also involved in the Empress of Ireland collision. |
Ian Kinder |
|
|
jwiborg
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
4961 Posts |
Posted - 11/10/2013 : 21:33:23
|
John Roy Christian; an American citizen (born in America by Norwegian parents) was onboard when the ship was torpedoed on March 8, 1917.
Are you looking for other names; or do you know who served on the ship?
Jan Peter
|
 |
|
|
iankind
Starting member
Canada
8 Posts |
Posted - 12/10/2013 : 20:54:49
|
Hello Jan,
I have recently drawn the Empress of Ireland and the Storstad onto one poster and I am looking for any new additional information about the names of the crew members and any information about the details of the Storstad as I will be doing speaking engagements about the Empresses starting in the new year and I would like to be able to update the story about the Storstad. By the way Jan, I personally believe that the Storstad wasn't completely to blame for the accident with the Empress of Ireland, this information will also be in my speaking engagements.
Anything you have will be great appreciated. |
Ian Kinder |
|
|
|
jwiborg
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
4961 Posts |
Posted - 12/10/2013 : 22:08:45
|
Officers and crew on the SS Storstad when it hit the Empress of Ireland on the St. Lawrence-river near Pointe-au-Père on May 29th, 1914:
Captain Thomas Andersen (1880-) Census-1910
Chief Officer Alfred Toftenaes (1881-1918) Census-1910
2nd Officer Einar M. Reinertz (1889-1975) Census-1910
3rd Officer (William) Jacob Saxe
Chief Engineer Syvertsen
3rd Engineer Jacob Singdalsen (1889-) Census-1910
Helmsman Peter Johannsen
Quartermaster Peter Johnson
Seaman Knut
Note: The Helmsman and Quartermaster above is the same person.
This could be Jacob Saxe: Mate Jakob Andreas Mohr Saxe (28 Feb 1886-26 Sep 1919)
Father: Priest Oluf Andreas Laurentius Saxe (1838-1889), Hamar, Hedmark
Mother: Ingeborg Wilhelmine Birgitte Mohr Saxe (1843-1913)
Jakob headed for Tharandt, Germany in 1906 (together with mother and sister Maria) to study forest work, but after school he was drawn towards the sea, where he studied to be a mate. During WWI he sailed mostly between southern Europe and East Asia. In 1919 he was heading home to take the captain exam, but the ship went down in bad weather in the North Sea, and 9 crew members deceased, incl "Jack" Saxe, 33 y.o.
Jakob Saxe (1886-1919)
Captein Thomas Andersen from Arendal, Norway
On duty at the time of collision in 1914 was Chief Officer Alfred Toftenes. The 33-year old sailor had served aboard Storstad for three years and worked his way up the ranks. Commanding the bridge, Toftenes had with him Third Officer Jacob Saxe, Helmsman Peter Johannsen and Seaman Knüt. As he passed Metis Point, Toftenes had ordered the helmsman to adjust his course and slowly bring the collier closer to the south shore of the St. Lawrence. Then came two sharp rings from the forward lookout. The report came in of lights to port. Toftenes sited what looked like a large liner off the port bow, closing fast. From his point of view, he could see her green starboard light, then her port red light. This told him she was turning towards the right (his left) and would pass him port to port.
Norwegian passengers on the Empress of Ireland.
Fourteen minutes: the last voyage of the Empress of Ireland (1980) by James Croall
Wiki.
Jan Peter |
Edited by - jwiborg on 13/10/2013 15:05:01 |
|
|
|
jwiborg
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
4961 Posts |
Posted - 12/10/2013 : 23:08:18
|
Mrs. Anna Andersen (Captain Thomas Andersen's wife) played a big role in the rescue during the night. She sent a letter home to her parents in Arendal after the collision. The letter was published in several Norwegian newspapers:
Thom and I were sleeping, and it was clear, fine weather immediately before the accident happened.
Thom was in bed and the 1st - and 3rd mates were both on the bridge and had orders to wake up Thom, if it was ever so little fog, and latest at 03:00 in any case, since we at 04:00 would be at "Fathers Point" and have a pilot boat. At 02:45 the first mate blew his whistle and said that it was suddenly thick fog.
Thom hurried up with virtually the clothes in his hands, in spite of being used to this many times a day, night or day, when Thom was downstairs, blew into the mouthpiece down in his bunk and said how everything was - the fog or the like.
But as said; Thom ran up with his clothes virtually in hand. And we both had an inkling feeling that something was wrong.
Thom lining up and was on the bridge before the collision, just at the moment I guess, and blew down to me, "turn out, turn out".
One minute later I stood on the bridge next to Thom, determined to stand there, and we all took everything magnificently made and cold-blooded.
Everything was happening so fast and quiet, not a scream or a sound from any of the ships. And the "Empress" disappeared without a trace, to our astonishment, - just as silently.
We believed it only had been negligible damage since it continued it's sailing, and I immediately said to Thom, "Imagine that they didn't inquire us about our fate first!" "Yes, strange," said Thom.
The "Storstad" was then looked after and it turned out that so far no water was in any rooms. Imagine how strong it had to be - it was floating on the collision bulkhead.
We had no idea where the "Empress" had gone, until we heard screams - which became stronger and stronger, and it was dreadful to listen to.
The "Storstad" blew the whistle several times and swung backwards, from where the sound came. And then we saw the huge consignment perfectly black.
All the lights were out, so we could not see it, and also because of the fog, which eased after about 10 minutes. All the rescue boats were put out in a rushing speed and the stokers and all those who just were there manned them, and carried out their mission quickly and appreciated.
Oh, it was such a horrid act seen that it can not be described. Yes, it was a sad sight to see the proud liner lie with the broad side ahead.
But it was complete panic on the "Empress", so only two, three lifeboats were put out there, and there were just a few of the crew who boarded them.
One of the boats had three of the officers and imagine that they climbed up and would not go back in their own boats and rescue people. One of them was, however, forced by the people here on board to go with one of our boats, and the "Storstad"'s people rescued about 360, and in total, approximately 420 was rescued.
The water was so cold, so more people could have been saved had they been able to stay up, but they got cramp and froze to death. Oh God, so hideous. Yes, I will never forget it, never, - I still hear the screams.
Thom gave me strict orders to keep away, inside, under the harrowing sight, when the boat sank and the people were taken on board. He was on the bridge until all orders were executed, and afterwards he helped with landing.
Captain Kendall and Dr. Grant from the Empress was brought on board to us and a lot of stokers, stewards, and about 15 women, including one - presumably mrs. Patou - from 1st class.
She had not been in the water and weared a lot of diamonds, and fur cloak. Otherwise every soul was naked, wearing only a small pajamas.
Yes, you can believe it was quite a sight, and we were busy. I work as never before - they received and took all my clothes and what we have left is just what we are wearing.
Thom is in particular totally stripped of lingerie, shoes and outerwear, everything, everything.
I managed to help as many I could to take off their wet night suits and give them some dry clothes, because they were virtually naked when they got off the wet night clothes.
It was so full of naked people that they even stood packed up on the tables and couches, like herring in a barrel, likewise in the machine and in the cabins.
I managed to give them brandy and whiskey, hot coffee and prepared them as best I could, especially the ladies. Their feet were stiff and sore and had been quite a long time in the water,
since the "Empress" fell over so fast that they fell out, and other jumped out. And the "Empress" had all the valves open under the deck, so the water flowed so rapidly in.
After giving the survivors her wardrobe, Anna Andersen cut tableclothes and curtains from the Storstad to make skirts.
Jan Peter |
Edited by - jwiborg on 13/10/2013 02:21:39 |
|
|
|
jwiborg
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
4961 Posts |
Posted - 13/10/2013 : 00:29:15
|
The coal ship Storstad after the collision
Testimony of the captain G.H. Kendall (Empress of Ireland) during the commission of inquiry on the shipwreck
Illustration from a newspaper at the time depicting a moment during the tragedy
At 1:56 a.m., the coal ship Storstad rammed the passenger liner amidships
Path taken by the Empress of Ireland before its collision with the coal freighter, the Storstad
Menu for third class passengers (1910)
Dining room for second class passengers
Labelling baggage on the lower promenade deck
The Empress of Ireland, a forgotten history. Courtesy of virtualmuseum.ca
Jan Peter |
Edited by - jwiborg on 13/10/2013 12:31:27 |
|
|
|
JaneC
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3020 Posts |
Posted - 13/10/2013 : 01:35:46
|
Incredible images - wow!
The 1914 collision with the Empress of Ireland is reported in many newspaper articles at the time - in case it helps, I'll mention one source is "Chronicling America," a digital archives of the Library of Congress (USA). This is a free online database.
"Chronicling America" yields fewer articles and less information about the sinking of the Storstad 08 March 1917. One person died from exposure. Survivor John Roy Christian reported that the German submarine continued to fire at the survivors in the lifeboats even when some distance from the sinking Storstad. "They appeared to be firing about for fun. I do not know any other reason," he was quoted as saying, in a New York Times article (a further excerpt below).
An example of coverage:
"London, March 10. -- The Norwegian steamer Storstad, flying the American flag, in the Belgian relief service, has been sunk by a submarine, it was announced here this afternoon. The Storstad displayed the regulation relief ship signs. All members of the crew were landed, but one died of exposure. There was one American in the crew of twenty-seven. Official information received here said that when the Storstad entered the submarine zone she was ordered to put into Las Palmas in the Canary Islands. Apparently, her commander chose to risk the submarine dangers." -- the Washington Herald 11 March 1917 page 1
The New York Evening World reported the incident on March 10 in an article title "Belgian Food Ship Sunk by U Boat; American Aboard." The report says the Storstad was sailing under the auspices of the American Commission for Relief in Belgium and was bringing a cargo of wheat from Buenos Aires, having set sail from there January 13. The Evening World says the Storstad lacked German safe conduct. Three lifeboards of survivors got separated but eventually all landed. John Roy Christian was the sole American aboard and is thus reported in American newspapers. I couldn't open Jan Peter's link (something about my computer system balks at links) and I don't mean to repeat that info - but apparently John Roy Christian lived in Seattle at the time.
On March 12 the New York Times reported that Captain Andersen of the Storstad insisted he had official stamped safe conduct papers from the German Consul in Buenos Aires, with a promise that the Storstad could safely voyage through all waters.
This particular article, below, included an interview with John Roy Christian (I quoted it briefly above):
Special Cable to The New York Times, New York, N.Y, Mar 11, 1917:
"American Saved from Relief Ship"
"Was A Member of Crew on Norwegian Steamer Storstad, Which Was Sunk by U-Boat. "Vessel Plainly Marked. Carried 10,000 Tons of Maize Needed in Belgium - Was Ship Which Sank the Empress of Ireland. Castleton, Berehaven, March 10. The Belgian Relief Ship Storstad has been sunk....John Roy Christian...in an interview said he was born in Washington and lived in that city 18 years and had spent five years in different parts of America ...Although born of Norwegian parents he said he had never been to Norway ... 'We were thirty-six hours in the boat with a heavy sea running and a strong wind against us....' "
There's much more description, but it won't copy and paste, which is why I haven't included it in full here. I am happy to type the entire article, if it is one you don't have.
Another article was "Relief Ship Sunk, Had German Permit," New York Times, March 12, reported that the fourth engineer who died was named Sorensen. This article also said the crew were Norwegians and Danes, as far as the person being interviewed knew (the chief engineer, no name given). I think most libraries would carry newspaper databases with these articles. I found these in ProQuest.
I think John Roy Christian's father would be Stephen A. Christian. In a further interview with John Roy Christian he says he was born in Tacoma. I mention this because possibly his descendants could be traced. He may be this John Roy Christian:
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GSln=Christian&GSfn=John+&GSmn=Roy&GSbyrel=all&GSdyrel=all&GSob=n&GRid=3560967&df=all&
In the 1914 collision...You likely know that 167 "Salvationists" (members of the Salvation Army) were among those who died when the Empress of Ireland sank in 1914. Every year on the anniversary of the tragedy, the Salvation Army holds a memorial service to honor those who lost their lives.
Six hours before the accident, the Salvation Army band members aboard the Empress had played "God Be with You til We Meet Again" as passengers sang along.
"Rees Recalls the Empress of Ireland"
"The city of Toronto was unusually somber. It was June 6, 1914 and the drums of Salvation Army bands beat in slow cadence as the great procession of mourners marched behind horse-drawn hearses, bearing Salvation Army flag-draped coffins, making their way to Mount Pleasant Cemetery. Thousands lined the funeral route in respectful, silent tribute. The coffins bore the bodies of only 17 of the 167 Salvationists, officers and soldiers, who were drowned when the Canadian Pacific liner, Empress of Ireland, sank in the St. Lawrence River on Friday, May 29, 1914. About a thousand passengers and crew drowned in this, the greatest peacetime tragedy in Canadian history. May 29 became known as the Army’s 'Black Friday.' The Salvation Army in Canada had lost almost the whole headquarters’ staff, as well as 29 of the 41-member Canadian Staff Band. The loss was significant. The territorial commander, Commission-er David Rees, along with Mrs. Commissioner Ruth Rees and children Captain Harding Rees, Captain Ruth Rees and Corps Cadet Annie Rees; the chief secretary, Colonel Sidney Maidment and his wife, Mrs. Colonel Harriet Maidment, as well as the secretary for immigration Major David Creighton and Mrs. Major Bertha Creighton were among the scores of victims. All the Salvationist passengers were making their way to London, England, as were Salvation Army soldiers from every part of the globe, for an International Congress under the esteemed leadership of General Bramwell Booth. Eighty-nine years later, unaware of the significance of the day, the city of Toronto was unusually noisy. Yet there was a sense of serenity and peace, tucked away not far from the entrance of Mount Pleasant Cemetery, as the refrains of familiar hymn tunes were played by The Salvation Army North Toronto Community Church band. There were no thousands of people gathered to recall the events of that fateful night. Yet they came, relatives of victims and survivors, Salvationists and friends, and the curious, to gather in solemn tribute before the Empress of Ireland plinth, for the annual memorial service which was conducted under the auspices of The Salvation Army Historical Society (Canada and Bermuda) and the George Scott Railton Heritage Centre. Guest speaker Lt. Colonel Della Rees of Santa Rosa, Calif., presented in her message a historical glimpse of her grandfather, Commissioner David Rees. The colonel’s message was enlightening, as well as challenging. Rees had grown up with the story and events of the sinking of the Empress of Ireland, as well as the personal impact of seven family members being promoted to Glory from the ship. It was a solemn moment, as the band played “Servant of God, well done!” when Colonel Rees and her cousin, B/M Fred Creighton, placed the wreath in front of the plinth, in memory of all Salvationists who perished on the Empress of Ireland. Creighton’s daughter, Donna Dolan and her son Andrew placed a wreath in memory of the 30-plus children who died in the Empress of Ireland tragedy. As in past memorial services, despite the despair of the past, there prevailed 'an ever present hope' for the future and that hope buoyed up the spirits of those who still mourn the loss of loved ones. Among the many relatives and friends present for the memorial service was Rees’ cousin, and the brother to B/M Fred Creighton, author David Creighton, who has written a most interesting book about the Empress of Ireland and the Creighton family, 'Losing the Empress: Personal Journey.' "
--Salvation Army news release 2003
More re the Salvation Army and the Empress of Ireland tragedy:
http://www.salvationarmy.ca/2013/05/27/national-tour-traces-descendants-of-immigrants-sailing-on-the-empress-of-ireland/comment-page-1/
More about the 1914 collision, with individual stories and photographs:
http://www.empress2014.ca/seclangen/prttprsnlt.html |
Edited by - JaneC on 13/10/2013 02:16:39 |
|
|
|
JaneC
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3020 Posts |
Posted - 13/10/2013 : 01:51:25
|
Toronto Star 30 May 2004
An article about descendants of the Empress disaster. "We can't allow people to sell off the Empress of Ireland," says Eunice Gulbraa, whose grandfather made the voyage in 1912 [sic]. Holding his original, yellowing tickets, the Albertan from Irma said she traveled to Rimouski to pay homage. 'This is our Titanic. This is our Mayflower. How can we let it go? People are trying to sell relics to collectors. We don't want that to happen."
Additional descendants of passengers are named as well. Julian Taylor's grandfather was Walter Taylor, "part of the crew and he died at 33." Marion Kelch is named as founder of the Empress of Ireland Artifacts Committee.
Here's an abstract of an article that appeared in the Toronto Star 20 April 1992 with quotes from survivors:
"The Quebec docks were alive with excitement as passengers boarded the elegant Empress of Ireland on May 29, 1914. Hours later, the liner was on the bottom of the St. Lawrence River after colliding with a collier. The death toll was 1,012 people - many of them Salvation Army members from Toronto. These reports appeared in regular and Extra editions of The Star. That is the story of the sinking of the Empress of Ireland, told by the half-clad, haggard, disheveled band of survivors who reached Montreal early this morning, on their way to Toronto and the West. ..."
Gracie Hanegan (Martyn), daughter of bandmaster Hanegan of the Salvation Army at Toronto, was interviewed in 1994 at age 87, as the last living survivor of the 1914 disaster. Her parents both perished in it. Another child to survive was Helen O'Hara, daughter of Mr. and Mrs. H. R. O'Hara, also of Toronto.
Full article available on ProQuest newspaper archives. Most of the news articles that are turning up about this 1914 tragedy seem to be told from the point of view of the Empress and passengers of the Empress. This is natural, given that the 36 members of the Storstad crew all survived, and the burden of the disaster fell on the many passengers of the huge Empress. |
Edited by - JaneC on 13/10/2013 02:33:03 |
|
|
|
jwiborg
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
4961 Posts |
Posted - 13/10/2013 : 17:41:40
|
Click the picture to see an animated flash of the collision, based on Storstad's version of what happened.
01:35 Storstad observes lights from The Empress of Ireland. The ships are on a collision course.
01:41 The Empress changes course and shows red lantern. A signal that they wil pass using normal yield rules.
01:45 A fog bank appears and hides The Empress of Ireland.
01:46 Storstad reverses and slows down to a minimum.
01:55 In fear of running out of course, more speed and rudder to starboard are commanded, but the ship does not respond in time.
01:56 The Empress are approaching at high speed and are headed across the bow of the Storstad.
01:56 Storstad hits The Empress amidships, trying to stay in the hole, but are twisted out again because the other ship has great speed ahead.
01:58 The Empress disappears in the mist ahead.
02:02 Storstad starts searching, and soon finds The Empress lying on its side.
02:10 The Empress of Ireland sinks. Storstad puts all lifeboats out and rescues 350 people.
Jan Peter |
Edited by - jwiborg on 13/10/2013 17:44:37 |
|
|
|
iankind
Starting member
Canada
8 Posts |
Posted - 13/10/2013 : 17:44:03
|
Hello JaneC
Thank you very much for your helpful information and will no doubt have several hours of pouring over this information. I have taken a point of view that the SS Storstad was not completely to blame in the tragic disaster between the Empress of Ireland and the Storstad. I am sure that I will be creating quite a stir among several people in the Empress community but I can prove that the Empress was not dead in the water as Captain Kendall had claimed.
Thanks again,
Ian |
Ian Kinder |
|
|
|
iankind
Starting member
Canada
8 Posts |
Posted - 13/10/2013 : 19:16:06
|
Hello Jan,
Thank you for the images I especially like the animation showing the Empress of Ireland course and that of the Storstad. I have a drawing that shows where Captain Kendall claim the Empress had sunk and where the diver actually had found the wreck. The animation confirms the hard hat divers location wreck and with my addition information about Captain Kendall claim to stopping the ship both drawing plus other drawing that I have, I know have a clear picture of what happened that night of the sinking. Also thank you for the other additional information, t too will also come in handy.
Jan, do you know if there is much talk or discussion about the accident and the Storstad in Norway as the 100 year approaches? |
Ian Kinder |
|
|
|
jwiborg
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
4961 Posts |
Posted - 13/10/2013 : 21:29:42
|
This accident is not very well known in Norway. A bit strange maybe, taken into consideration that it happened just 2 years after Titanic, which "everybody" knows about.
The number of casualties was less (1012 people vs 1500 people on the Titanic), but the main reasons for its unknown fate are that WWI broke out at the same time, and that there was not so many Norwegian casualties from The Empress, since the ship was on a return trip towards Europe.
I have just listened to a 45 minute long radio documentary about the accident, broadcasted on the Norwegian radio station NRK in January 2012.
NRK would be similar to CBC in Canada. The documentary is available online, but mostly in Norwegian, with some interviews in English.
The documentary starts with a great story... a Norwegian woman bought an old house in Arendal recently, and in a wall in the attic she found some 100 year old papers, belonging to a previous owner of the house; Captain Andersen of Storstad.
Capt. Andersen's old house in Arendal, Norway.
She found the old papers very interesting, and contacted some local historians, which came for a look. Later, a local newspaper and NRK Radio was contacted, and this documentary was made.
The historians are also planning a book about it. They are looking for evidence that Storstad was not to blame.
The authors and historians Harald Breievne and Atle Johnsen looking for old papers in Captain Andersen's old house. NRK reporter Kjetil Saugestad are anxiously watching.
Thomas and Anna Andersen's daugher Eva Haraldsen is later interviewed.
Terje Toftenes is also interviewed. He is a descendant after Chief Officer Alfred Toftenaes (1881-1918), who was blamed for the accident. Terje says Alfred Toftenes felt unfairly treated of this.
Alf Hestenes, a grandchild of capt. Andersen is then travelling with the authors/historians and NRK Radio to The Empress Of Ireland Museum in Rimouski, QC.
The Museum officials are interviewed, and they say they are not blaming any of the ships for the accident, ie no good ones or bad ones. Basically, they blame the Fog for the accident.
The Canadian historian David St.Pierre is also interviewed.
empress2014.ca
Les Norvégiens s’intéressent à la tragédie de l’Empress of Ireland
Jan Peter |
Edited by - jwiborg on 13/10/2013 22:46:42 |
|
|
|
JaneC
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3020 Posts |
Posted - 13/10/2013 : 23:17:46
|
A lot was written at the time of the 1914 collision, in the news, and in the inquiry. Jan Peter has posted much and I am working my way through it.
Newspapers reported heated controversy about the cause of the collision. The main arguments seem to have been - let's see if I have this right? - that the Empress stopped, and lit green lights to warn the Storstad of its position (difficult to see due to fog), and was then rammed by the Storstad. The Storstad version was that it was on course, held steady on course, and the Empress crossed into her way. The Storstad had the right of way.
One such article is titled "Empress Is Blamed by Her Helmsman: Steering Gear Was Jammed and She Wouldn't Obey Wheel, Quartermaster Testifies." Quartermaster James Francis Galway claimed under oath at the inquiry that the owners of the Empress handed him a ticket to England prior to the inquiry, prodding him to leave Canada and saying his testimony was not needed. Galway testified he remained regardless in order to tell "the truth." He said that the steering mechanism was not working properly and that the Empress very nearly collided with another ship just hours before the collision with the Storstad. The article stated: "The steering gear the same evening became jammed to port and remained so. He reported the matter to Second Officer Williams and the pilot, saying that unless the matter was remedied, a collision was inevitable." As I read comments by Lord Mersey of the British House of Peers, who presided over the inquiry, to me he seemed biased toward the owners of the Empress. "I must say I attach no importance to this" he said of Galway's testimony, in addition to a number of other discounting remarks. Other testimony did not support Galway. -- New York Times 19 June 1914
In addition to the cause of the accident, points of contention included specifics about measures taken following to mitigate damages. For example, the order to close the bulkheads on the Empress came too late. In my brief reading my understanding is that the Empress captain acknowledged this. Another charge was that the officers of the Storstad were forced to discipline the officers of the Empress into appropriately assisting rescue efforts.
I hardly know how to add to this thread - as there is just too much material. A nice problem.
Thanks for bringing this significant historical event to attention. |
Edited by - JaneC on 14/10/2013 02:20:23 |
|
|
|
Kåarto
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
5861 Posts |
Posted - 13/10/2013 : 23:43:40
|
Impressive much information of the tragic accident within two days 
Kåre |
|
|
|
iankind
Starting member
Canada
8 Posts |
Posted - 15/10/2013 : 03:59:27
|
Hi Jan,
That maybe true and I know David St. Pierre very well and we often discuss the Empress of Ireland and the Storstad and why the accident happened.
But I base what was said in 1914 at the original Inquiry including photographs of the Storstad and the damage to her bow, testimony from the crew of the Storstad, the position as to where the hard hat divers found the wreck as to where Captain Kendall claims where the Empress was when the collision took place. You also have to ask yourself why would a Captain of the passenger liner apparently stop his ship in the middle of the night knowing that there is an approaching vessel coming towards him through a fog bank? Why didn't he at least get his watertight doors closed? Why was his ship in a different location as to where the hard hat diver found the wreck? Did he actually stop his ship? This question was not answered during the inquiry!
Here is a passage taken from the Official Inquiry. "We regret to have to impute blame to any one in connection with this lamentable
disaster and we should not do so if we felt that any reasonable alternative was left to us. We can, however, come to no other conclusion than that Mr.Toftenes was wrong and negligent in altering his course in the fog, as he undoubtedly did, and that he was
wrong and negligent in keeping the navigation of the vessel in his own hands and in failing to call the captain when he saw the fog coming on."
But what if Mr. Toftenes didn't change his course? If you read the Official Inquiry how can you explain why the Storstad bow did not stay in the wound on the starboard side of the Empress of Ireland. But bounced out as Captain Kendall claimed! The Storstad weight over 10,000 tons, her frames had been Isherwood design a very strong and sturdy ship. So with the momentum of the Storstad and her cargo how would the Storstad stern swing quickly towards the stern of the Empress of Ireland if the Empress was not moving?
It's great not to blame either ship because of the fog but how do you answer some of the questions that I raise above?
The accident occurred because of the fog but there was other elements that added to the disaster. Captain Kendall had no business in trying to stop his ship in the middle of the night with a fog bank approaching knowing that there was another ship approaching and the Empress of Ireland maneuverability was nil.
There are too many unanswered questions but to say no one is to blame I don't agree with that. If anything Captain Kendall definitely had his part in playing in this disaster.
What do you think?
Ian
|
Ian Kinder |
|
|
|
iankind
Starting member
Canada
8 Posts |
Posted - 15/10/2013 : 04:17:31
|
Hi JaneC,
If you read my posting below to Jan I brought up several question why I think it was not entirely the Storstad fault for causing the accident.
Your question about the steering is also a good one. During the Inquiry in 1914, the Quarter Master of the Empress of Ireland claimed that the steering aboard the Empress had been faulty on May 28th, 1914. Only hours before the disaster occurred. It also had been reported in the newspaper that Captain Walsh of the Canadian Pacific Railway Company had offered Quartermaster Galway a ticket to go back to Liverpool before the official Inquiry into the sinking of the Empress of Ireland start in June 1914.
The counsel for CPR denied this of course and they also discredit Quartermaster Galway testimony, and he was dismissed as a reliable witness.
While I was doing research for my book on the Empresses I came across information about the steering gear from the Empress of Ireland sister ship, the Empress of Britain. In August 1914 the vessel was being used as a military armed cruiser. Only days after leaving the harbor the Empress of Britain had trouble with the steering gear on two different occasions for several hours. Both vessels the Ireland and Britain had the same steering gear.
So was there some truth to Quartermaster Galway statement that he had trouble with the Empress of Ireland steering gear?
There are so many unanswered questions about the Empress of Ireland and the Storstad accident which I bring up in my upcoming book. But I don't believe that the Storstad was fully to blame nor do I believe the new theory that no one was to blame it was because of the fog. There are too many unanswered questions to believe that. |
Ian Kinder |
|
|
| |
Topic |
|
|
|
Norwegian Klavenes Line
