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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
 Posted - 24/07/2015 : 05:12:22
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| July is the nation's vacation month. Patience. |
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lornejohnson
Senior member
Canada
287 Posts |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
Posted - 26/07/2015 : 02:14:49
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You have a tough row to hoe, since 1815 has no index. I was hoping this wasn't going to be the case and that the archives would take pity on you. But they haven't. There are two sets of the records which cover 1815 so you have to look into two books. The probates will follow roughly chronological order. But just as in US, some are more complicated than others and take more time to settle.
As to figuring out the writing you will just have to keep looking at it until you have your "Helen Keller" moment and it makes sense.
Basically, estate or probate records have similar features everywhere. There's usually some kind of initial record, establishing that a person named such-n-such has died and a file is being started and will be administered by someone else. If the estate has any large amount of assets then they are inventoried. Likewise debts are tabulated. Heirs are usually listed near the beginning and also at the end when distributions are recorded.
Just looking quickly, it appears that there are separator spaces between different files and you might find the decendants names right after a space. It also appears there are numbers applied to cases which might be helpful also.
Good Luck
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lornejohnson
Senior member
Canada
287 Posts |
Posted - 27/07/2015 : 07:36:57
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I may have found the probate record for Halvor Jorgensen. Bottom of page 106, Probate # 46, ....the underlined name looks like Halvor Jorgensen, also visible is Birgitt Halvorsdat., Johannes Halvorsen., farm name Rodkliev and on page 107 the names of his children:
Jorgen
Johannes
Helge
Anne
Birgitt
Gunild
interesting ...no indication of a son Ole ??
- not sure what the numbers represent to the right of their names?
Can anyone translate anything else besides the names here please?
VERY excited with this find!
http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:NBN:no-a1450-sk20090114690107.jpg&siz=gigant |
Lorne Johnson |
Edited by - lornejohnson on 27/07/2015 08:28:39 |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
Posted - 27/07/2015 : 14:22:18
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Yes, you've got it!
Includes names of his 5 surviving children. What it says about Johannes is that he is ugifte, unmarried and the other comment / word I don't know. The only one who is married is Anne and she is married to Knut Ivarsen looks like Horpestad.
I think it continues on the next page because it breaks in the middle of the deceased wife Anne Jørgensdatter's name. You will have to post the page because you have posted the first page without the necessary reading aspects of the page.
The trustees or administrators are named as Ole Nielsen Lia and Gunder Halvorson Kystolen (?), likely the son from the first marriage. |
Edited by - jkmarler on 27/07/2015 14:29:56 |
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lornejohnson
Senior member
Canada
287 Posts |
Posted - 27/07/2015 : 18:20:06
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quote:
Originally posted by lornejohnson
reply from arkrivet:
http://arkivverket.no/URN:sk_read/search/?forvaltning=&fylke=08&embete=Nedre+Telemark+sorenskriveri&protokoll=SKPR&periode=&navn
Has any one tried to navigate this site. I've had a look at the year 1815 but it is in very small old Norwegian print. Any suggestions?
Here is the link that arkivet sent me. The probate record for Halvor Jorgensen is in the book that STARTS with 1815 on page 105b/106a, probate #46
As Johannes is unmarried at the time of this probate (married 1818) ..I still don't have him as a partner to Gunild Nilsdat Kleven.
With the evidence that I have collected on him ...his brother-in-law Knud Ivarsen as witness to Johannes and Gunilds son's birth ... and Johannes showing up as a witness to a birth as "Johannes Halvorsen Kleven" with obvious family members also as witnesses....do I have enough evidence ?? Is there anywhere else I can go for evidence?? |
Lorne Johnson |
Edited by - lornejohnson on 27/07/2015 19:01:11 |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
Posted - 27/07/2015 : 19:10:49
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Source information: Telemark county, Nedre Telemark sorenskriveri, Skifteprotokoll 21 (Hba 0021), 1815-1820, oppb: Statsarkivet i Kongsberg.
Remarks: Nr. 1-329. Registrering i Gjerpen sorenskriveri. - Protokollens nummer avviker fra nummeret på filmingsplakaten.
Permanent page-link: http://arkivverket.no/URN:sk_read/25663/108/
This is the second and third page. About halfway down the right page, right column is the list of distributions from the estate.
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lornejohnson
Senior member
Canada
287 Posts |
Posted - 27/07/2015 : 23:15:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Kåarto
Rødklev (Raukleiv)
Not much info to share.
1792 Halvor Jørgensen and Ingeborg Jonsdatter with 5 chilfden leased Rødkleiv.
Probate after Halvor and Ingeborg was held 1815 and the farm was ca 1820 taken over by a son Ole Halvorsen and wife Johanne Olsdatter, a daughter Mette b. 1826 married Anund Olsen Stavholt. They em. to America 1853.
Ole Halvorsen is mentioned on Rødklev 1838 as owner of Rødklev, he sold the farm 1854, he and a relative em. to America some years later.
This I find confusing. If a son Ole Halvorsen took over the family farm ar Rodklev, why don't we see his name on the probate information?
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Lorne Johnson |
Edited by - lornejohnson on 27/07/2015 23:16:51 |
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lornejohnson
Senior member
Canada
287 Posts |
Posted - 27/07/2015 : 23:54:17
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Lots of familiar names as we look at Halvor's siblings:
Halvor’s family:
Farm Rui/Rue, nordre.
Father: Jorgen Bjornsson Ekre – 1696 -
married
Mother: Haege – Born about 1698
Children:
1. Bjorn, born about 1722
married Turid Kjetilsdater Li
2. Bergit, about 1724-1773
3, Margit, about 1727
married 1748 Olav Kjetilsson Li
4. Kari 1731-1810
5. Johannes 1734
married 1757 Oli Leidulvsdatter
6. Halvor 1737
married 1768 Anne Gunleiksdatter Bakken
7. Ingebjorg 1740
married 1779 Gunleik Halvorsson Li
Possible Gunder Halvorson mentioned in the probate of Halvor Jorgensen as a trustee.
Lorne Johnson
Edited by - lornejohnson on 27/07/2015 23:52:11
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Lorne Johnson |
Edited by - lornejohnson on 27/07/2015 23:54:51 |
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Kåarto
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
5861 Posts |
Posted - 28/07/2015 : 00:22:30
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quote:
Originally posted by lornejohnson
quote:
Originally posted by Kåarto
Rødklev (Raukleiv)
Not much info to share.
1792 Halvor Jørgensen and Ingeborg Jonsdatter with 5 chilfden leased Rødkleiv.
Probate after Halvor and Ingeborg was held 1815 and the farm was ca 1820 taken over by a son Ole Halvorsen and wife Johanne Olsdatter, a daughter Mette b. 1826 married Anund Olsen Stavholt. They em. to America 1853.
Ole Halvorsen is mentioned on Rødklev 1838 as owner of Rødklev, he sold the farm 1854, he and a relative em. to America some years later.
This I find confusing. If a son Ole Halvorsen took over the family farm ar Rodklev, why don't we see his name on the probate information?
I have no idea why.
Ole Halvorsen and Johanne Olsdatter had 4 chilren:
Ane 1819, Halvor 1823, Mette-Martha 1826 and Aase 1829
Here is Mette-Marthe born on Rødklev Jan. 25. 1826.
Parents; Ole Halvorsen and Johanne Olsd. Rødklev, see right page #19
Kåre |
Edited by - Kåarto on 28/07/2015 00:27:26 |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
Posted - 28/07/2015 : 01:04:59
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The simple reason is that there is no son named Ole. We haven't found a baptism for him in two parishes.
There is an Ole Halvorson age 3 in the 1801 on Osterli the child of another couple, perhaps that's him. |
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lornejohnson
Senior member
Canada
287 Posts |
Posted - 28/07/2015 : 01:19:04
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| I think you're right Jackie. The 1801 census had Ole as a neighbor to our family. I think we made an assumption that he could be part of the family. With no mention of him on the probate record it most certainly eliminates Ole as one of the children. |
Lorne Johnson |
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Kåarto
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
5861 Posts |
Posted - 28/07/2015 : 20:55:12
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You are right. This Ole Halvorsen married Johanne Olsdatter in Åmotsdal sub parish in Seljord Feb. 2. 1819, both were from farm Haugene and the first child Ane was bapt. in Åmotsdal Church.
They must have moved to Bø within 1820 where they bought Rødklev because their next children were born on Rødklev also called Kleven.
The owner of Rødklev 1865 was Ole Andersen and Kirsti Olsdatter.
Perhaps they bought Rødklev from Ole Halvorsen 1854.
Kåre |
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Kåarto
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
5861 Posts |
Posted - 29/07/2015 : 00:17:36
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Maybe we have seen this before, it is been so many postings.
Deed (property) on "Pladsen" Cotters farm Rødklev under Østerli østre.
Ole Halvorsen sells a part or all Rødklev to Tollef Anundsen for 270 Daler on April 12. rec. June 1834, see on top Skjøde fra Ole Halvorsen til.......
Tollef Anundsen sold Rødklev to Ole Andersen 1865 for 350 Daler June 18. 1865.
Down page;
"Festebrev" Written contract for the lease of land and forest on Rødklev from Halvor Kittelsen to Halvor Jørgensen d. Sept. 11. 1792.
Kåre |
Edited by - Kåarto on 29/07/2015 00:18:01 |
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lornejohnson
Senior member
Canada
287 Posts |
Posted - 29/07/2015 : 22:50:21
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I've been doing some reading on the traditional Norwegian system of giving names to your children. Jackie had touched on this. Apparently the first born son would be named after his paternal grandfather, second son after his maternal grandfather. First born daughter after her paternal grandmother.
In the case of Johannes Halvorsen:
Eldest son Halvor ...named after paternal grandfather Halvor Jorgensen
Second son Nils ...named after matermal grandfather Nils Andresen
First Daughter Ingeborg ...named after her paternal grandmother ....Ingeborg Jensdatter
More evidence that my 3rd great grandfather Johannes Halvorsen who married Gunild Nilsdatter was the son of Halvor Jorgensen
Comments please.
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Lorne Johnson |
Edited by - lornejohnson on 29/07/2015 22:52:59 |
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Johanes Halvorsen Parents
