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Neil Jones
Starting member
United Kingdom
14 Posts |
 Posted - 06/03/2014 : 15:02:45
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I'm in the process of tracing my UK family tree on ancestry.co.uk. One line that I've not managed to get far with is to find anything out about my great-grandmother, Jenny Larsen (or Larson) who emigrated to the UK from Norway at some point. I know that she was Norwegian by birth, but do not know her background or when she came over to the UK, though presumably it was before she was married in 1902 in the UK. The only details I have are as follows:
b. 1881 (Norway - no other info)
Married 1902 to Alfred E Spindley (Grimsby, Lincolnshire, UK)
Resident 1911 (Clee, Lincolnshire, UK)
d. 1919 (Grimsby, Lincolnshire, UK)
I also have a photograph of her that I think was probably taken in her later years (she died young) which I would be glad to share.
No-one else in the UK who has researched other joint branches of my tree has managed to come up with anything further. The only Jenny Larsen I've turned up who was born in 1881 was born in Drammen, but apart from being in Norway and the year of birth, there's nothing strong enough to link her to "my" Jenny Larsen.
I'd be really grateful to hear from anyone who might be able to help me track down my Norwegian ancestry!
Neil |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2014 : 15:15:18
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In the recent and ongoing topic "Christian Tromm" there was a similar situation--Norwegian migrating to England, marrying, dying young. In that case the marriage record contained addtional information about his family a name for his father and his father's occupation. If you don't already have it you might consider getting it.
Also a death certficate might also have additional information about Jenny and the birth records of her children. |
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Borge
Veteran Moderator
Norway
1297 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2014 : 15:22:40
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This family in Kristiania (Oslo) found in the 1885 census might be a start:
Anders Larsen born 1847 at Frendefors Sverige (Sweeden) Jernarbejder (Ironworker)
Louise Mathea Jensen b. 1851 at Hamar - Hustru (wife)
Anna Larsen 1876 Kristiania Datter
Agnes Larsen 1877 Kristiania Datter
Aksel Hjalmar Larsen 1878 Kristiania Søn
Jenny Larsen 1881 Kristiania Datter
Ludvig M. Larsen 1885 Kristiania Barn (ikke endnu døbt) |
Børge Solem |
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Borge
Veteran Moderator
Norway
1297 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2014 : 15:25:24
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2nd find:
Laurits Larsen born 1840 at Spydberg, Arbeider (laborer)
Johanne Larsen 1843 Spydberg
Karen Larsen 1870 Spydberg
Olava Larsen 1871 Kristiania
Adolf Larsen 1874 Kristiania
Christian Larsen 1876 Kristiania
Jenny Larsen 1881 Kristiania
Marie Larsen 1884 Kristiania
It would help if you know any detail about her family in Norway. |
Børge Solem |
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Borge
Veteran Moderator
Norway
1297 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2014 : 15:28:05
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Hans A. Larsen born 1858 in Drammen, Sømand (Sailor)
Karoline Larsen 1857 Svelvik
Frithjof Christensen 1877 Svelvik
Jenny Larsen 1881 Svelvik
Helga Larsen 1884 Drammen |
Børge Solem |
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JaneC
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3020 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2014 : 16:01:28
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Looks like Alfred Edward Spindley, born about 1880, is in the 1881 England census in Clee with Weelsby, Lincolnshire, England - so he is native to that place, is that right? Sometimes children's names can be a clue about who the parents are. Alfred served in the Mercantile Marine Reserve and also died 1919:
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GSln=Spindley&GSiman=1&GScid=2208004&GRid=59958641&
Since he is in the mercantile marine, I wonder if he was a sailor on a ship that went to Norway and he met Jenny there? So one approach would be to track his mercantile marine record, to see where he went. Borge's leads are another boost; I'll try to help find any of those siblings in UK.
But I agree with jkmarler, first thing to do is to post a transcription of her records from UK: marriage, birth of child(ren) and death. The informant on her death record, or witnesses at her marriage, the way her name appears etc - any of these could be clues. |
Edited by - JaneC on 06/03/2014 16:13:51 |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9301 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2014 : 16:11:44
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Do you know for sure that she was born in the year 1881. I notice that the 1811 Census lists her birth year as about 1879. Should we broaden the search to fit in the 1879 date or do you have other information that pins the year to 1881.
1911 England Census
Name: Jonny Spindley
Age in 1911: 32
Estimated birth year: abt 1879
Relation to Head: Wife
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Norway
Civil Parish: Clee
County/Island: Lincolnshire
Country: England
Street address: 221 Willingham St Grimsby
Marital Status: Married
Registration district: Grimsby
Registration District Number: 422
Sub-registration district: Great Grimsby
ED, institution, or vessel: 23
Piece: 19971
Household Members:
Name Age
Alfred E Spindley 32
Jonny Spindley 32
Lilly Spindley 8
Robert Spindley 6
Alfred Spindley 4 |
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JaneC
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3020 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2014 : 16:21:19
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Jenny Spindley died March 1919, same as Alfred,
age 38
= born 1881.
So maybe that is the basis for saying she was born 1881? Regardless, the known birth year should probably be a range, not exact. Opening query says not enough info is known, to be sure. Is that right Neil?
http://www2.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/information.pl?r=140674828&d=bmd_1392656156
This death record could be ordered and may have more information about her.
As you can see the forum will want all the information from the full record, any record you have. The summary was a good way to kick off though. 
Larsons who married in Grimsby (might not be relevant, my guess is not, but what the hay):
Pollie Larson 1901
Jenny Larson 1902
Mary Larson 1910
Thomas M Larson 1911
http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/cgi/search.pl
Pollie Larson m Ernest William Colley
Back in an edit - here's the one jkmarler just added:
Marriage
Charles Edward East - father Harry East
Agnes Knudina Britta Larson - father Oscar Larson
Date: 11 Jun 1901
Place: Clee, Lincoln, England
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Edited by - JaneC on 06/03/2014 22:35:51 |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9301 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2014 : 16:48:47
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Note the abt. on the 1881 in the death notice.
England & Wales, Death Index, 1916-2007
Name: Jenny Spindley
Birth Date: abt 1881
Date of Registration: Mar 1919
Age at Death: 38
Registration district: Grimsby
Inferred County: Lincolnshire
Volume: 7a
Page: 1088 |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2014 : 17:38:49
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I count 23 first name contains "Jenn", last name starts with "Lars" born 1881 =/- 2 years in the 1900 Norwegian census:
Living in øSTFOLD
Living in KRISTIANIA (now Oslo)
Jenny Mathilda Larsen b. 1883 Arendal father is Jens Larsen, mother is Marthe; living at Maridelsveien 12
Jenny Larsen b. 1881 no birth place noted, seamstress living at Oplands Gade 17
Jenny Gerda Larsen b. 1881 no birth place listed but parents are Carl Ludwig Larsen and Margrethe Larsen (A Jenny Gerda Larsen goes to New York to marry leaving through Oslo on 6 Apr 1905)
Jenny Larsen b. 1882 Fredrikstad; usual residence Fredrikstad, attending Schonnings school. living at Jakob Aals Gade 16
Jenny Larsen b 1879 Arendal, worker living at Drammensveien 116b. This Jenny was born on 5 Sept 1879 in Arendal to ___factoryworker Gustaf Emil Larsen
Jenny Lars. b. 30 Sept 1883 Lysaker Bærum living at Eilert Sundts Gade 26
Jenny Marie or Mary Lars. b. 1883 Mandal father Johan Lars. and mother Maren; Grimstadsgaden 16
Jenny Lars. b. 1879 Stokke worker living at Majorstuveien
#85 Jenny b. 13 July 1879 father is Lauritz Larsen, a farmer:
Source information: Vestfold county, Stokke, Parish register (official) nr. 9 (1872-1883), Birth and baptism records 1879, page 89.
Permanent pagelink: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=5937&idx_id=5937&uid=ny&idx_side=-96
Jenny Lars. b. 1879 Kristiania worker living at Norbygaden 20 or 22
Jenny Marie Lars. b. 1883 Nøterø student of Thorshoug Institut
Living in BUSKERUD
Jenny Lars. b. 1881 Drammen father Hans Larsen mother Karoline
Jenny Lars b. 1882 Drammen father Jacob Lars. mother Gurine
Jenny Lars. 1880 Nedre Eker living on Solvik
Jenny Marie Larsen b. 1880 Nedre Eker father Emil Larss. and mother Maren Helene living on Sommerfryd
Living in VESTFOLD:
Jenny Sophie Larsen b. 1881 Fredriksværen father Johan Petter Larsen and mother Olea Sevrine Larsen
Jenny Larsen b. 1883 Sandefjord worker living at Storgade 122 in Sandefjord
HORDALAND
Bergen
Jenny Helene Berntine Larssen b. 1883 Bergen father Martinius Olai Larssen and mother Anna Karine; living at Knøsesmuget B
Jenny Larsen b. 1879 Bergen worker living on Olaf Kyrresgade 4, 1st floor
ELIMINATED:
OSTFOLD
Askim parish, on Kirkerud farm
Jenny Larsen b. 1879 Aas Ak. married to Brede Larsen
eliminated due to description of Jenny in England as "spinster"
Rakkestad, on Sandaaker
Jenny Larsd b. 1878 Rakkestad; father is Lars Peders. Hasle and mother Anne Sophie
#15 Jenny Marie b. 24 Apr 1878 Rakkestad father Lars Pedersen a farmer:
Source information: Østfold county, Rakkestad in Rakkestad, Parish register (official) nr. I 12 (1878-1893), Birth and baptism records 1878, page 3.
Permanent pagelink: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=5478&idx_id=5478&uid=ny&idx_side=-7
eliminated due to likelihood that this is she in 1910 Norwegian census:
Rakkestad, on Sandaaker
Jenny Larsd b. 1878 Rakkestad; father is Lars Peders. Hasle and mother Anne Sophie
#15 Jenny Marie b. 24 Apr 1878 Rakkestad father Lars Pedersen a farmer:
Source information: Østfold county, Rakkestad in Rakkestad, Parish register (official) nr. I 12 (1878-1893), Birth and baptism records 1878, page 3.
Permanent pagelink: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=5478&idx_id=5478&uid=ny&idx_side=-7
KRISTIANIA:
Jenny Larsen b. 1880? no birthplace listed, married to Oskar Larsen living at Sanner Gade 17c eliminated due to description of Jenny in England as "spinster."
Jenny Larsen b. 29 Mar 1881 Hurum married to Ludvig Larson living at Kirkeveien 56c eliminated due to description of Jenny in England as "spinster"
BUSKERUD
Jenny Anette Lars. b. 1879 Drammen wife of Carl Andreas Lars. living at Henrsudtangen 20 eliminated due to Jenny in England being described as "spinster"
Living in ROGALAND
Jenny Bertine Olava Larsen b. 1878 Haugesund, temporary res Stord father Jens Larsen and mother Inger (She is the same person as was in Hordaland in 1900)
#17 Jenny Berthine Olava b. 24 Nov 1878 Haugesund father is skipper Jens Larsen:
Source information: Rogaland county, Haugesund in Haugesund, Parish register (official) nr. A 1 (1878-1885), Birth and baptism records 1879, page 14.
Permanent pagelink: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=6265&idx_id=6265&uid=ny&idx_side=-17
Unfortunately eliminated as married and living in Norway in 1910:
http://digitalarkivet.arkivverket.no/ft/person/pf01036708023848
Living in HORDALAND
Stord, Seminariet (Rommetveit)
Jenny Bertine Olava Larsen b 1878 Haugesund student at Stord seminar
Jenny Larsen b. 1879 Bergen father Hans Monsen and mother Karen Monsen; living on Fredriksberg 1A
Born 24 July 1878 eliminated due to living in Bergen Norway in 1910
Of course this might only have value if Jenny came to England after the date of the 1900 Norwegian census...
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Edited by - jkmarler on 21/03/2014 18:16:37 |
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David Yaw
Medium member
United Kingdom
128 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2014 : 18:47:24
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quote:
Originally posted by JaneC
Looks like Alfred Edward Spindley, born about 1880, is in the 1881 England census in Clee with Weelsby, Lincolnshire, England - so he is native to that place, is that right? Sometimes children's names can be a clue about who the parents are. Alfred served in the Mercantile Marine Reserve and also died 1919:
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GSln=Spindley&GSiman=1&GScid=2208004&GRid=59958641&
Since he is in the mercantile marine, I wonder if he was a sailor on a ship that went to Norway and he met Jenny there? So one approach would be to track his mercantile marine record, to see where he went. Borge's leads are another boost; I'll try to help find any of those siblings in UK.
But I agree with jkmarler, first thing to do is to post a transcription of her records from UK: marriage, birth of child(ren) and death. The informant on her death record, or witnesses at her marriage, the way her name appears etc - any of these could be clues.
Jane, Alfred married Jenny in 1902 - before he joined the Mercantile Marine (WW1). He is easily traceable through the 1911, 1901, 1891 and 1881 censuses. Back in those days Grimsby was of course a great fishing port - but from the censuses there is v little to suggest a family history of fishing or seafaring, although one of Alfred's brothers is recorded as a fisherman.
In the 1911 census, Alfred and Jenny had a son called Robert - same name as Alfred's father. They also had a daughter called Lilly - Alfred's mother was called Margaret and he had no sisters called Lilly - so might Lilly have been taken from Jenny's mother ??
In 1901 Alfred's occupation is given as stoker - was this shore based or might it have been on a steam trawler ?? Could the latter have taken him to Norway ??
In 1911 his occupation is given as fireman in an ice factory - any indication of whether the ice was manufactured locally, or were they importing ice from Norway in those days ??
I agree it would be valuable for Neil to get the marriage and death certificates - the marriage cert would normally give her father's full name and occupation. Her death record would NOT normally give her place of birth or father's name, but will indicate the reporter of the death - who might have been a Norwegian relative. |
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JaneC
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3020 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2014 : 18:55:01
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| Thanks David! |
Edited by - JaneC on 06/03/2014 18:58:33 |
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David Yaw
Medium member
United Kingdom
128 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2014 : 18:58:36
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quote:
Originally posted by JaneC
Interesting.
Jane, too early to say. If he hasn't done so yet, Neil getting the full official marriage certificate from the Government Records Office Southport should give us that key clue on her father's name. |
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Neil Jones
Starting member
United Kingdom
14 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2014 : 19:07:47
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Thanks for everyone's replies. Unfortunately I'm travelling at the moment (sat at the airport right now) so can't check back to my original research. However, a few comments from memory:
Most of the initial research was done by a distant relative who's tree research clashed with mine. I seem to remember that she had tried the marriage/death certificate, but it had no yielded any extra info. Nevertheless I will double check for myself as this sounds the biggest potential lead.
It may well be that the birth year of 1881 was inferred by the age of death, so yes, I guess 1879 may be possible.
Someone also picked up the name as "Jonny" rather than "Jenny" from the 1911 England Census. I remember also coming across this about a year ago (can't remember if it was from the same source) but I think I dismissed it as a likely transcription error. Is Jonny a Norwegian female name?
I'm also making an unsupported assumption that a change in spelling from Larsen to Larson was adopted somewhere along the way. Is that a reasonable assumption to continue to work with for now in the absence of evidence to the contrary?
I'll certainly pursue some of the leads and suggestions you've offered when I'm back home. Thanks once again. |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2014 : 19:22:46
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quote:
Originally posted by JaneC
J
Larsons who married in Grimsby (might not be relevant, my guess is not, but what the hay):
Pollie Larson 1901
Jenny Larson 1902
Mary Larson 1910
Thomas M Larson 1911
http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/cgi/search.pl
And per Neil's comment about Jonny being a female name or nickname. I found 127 first name Jonny in the 1900 Norwegian census, without looking at each one in each of the fylke, of the 35 in Kristiania, 3 were female; of 12 in Rogaland, 10 were female.
Pollie Larson m Ernest William Colley
Adding to Jane's list here is another Larson marriage in Lincolnshire of an almost certainly Norwegian person
Agnes Knudina Britta Larson in 1901:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/NV1Q-1VD
Pollie Larson above's father is named Alfred Larson in the England Marriages database.
Following up on Neil's comment/ question about Jonny being a female name in Norway, looking at the 1900 census finds a total of 127 Jonny first names. Without looking at all the names in all the parishes it would be hard to say for sure but of the 35 in Kristiania, 3 are female, of the 12 in Rogaland, 10 are female. |
Edited by - jkmarler on 06/03/2014 19:37:10 |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2014 : 19:55:27
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Following up David's comment about possibilities of Lillie being Jenny's mother's name here are the counts and amounts in the 1900 census in each of the fylke of a first name starting with lill and the combinations selected. This would be an overwhelming number to search unless there were some further filters to utilize:
fornavn: lilla, lille, lillea, lillean, lilleborg, lilleeng, lillegut, lilleholt, lillemor, lilli, lillia, lillian, lillie, lillo, lilloe, lilly, lillye
Fylke Antall
Østfold 156
Akershus 154
Oslo 770
Hedmark 26
Oppland 14
Buskerud 71
Vestfold 138
Telemark 71
Aust-Agder 34
Vest-Agder 30
Rogaland 39
Hordaland 151
Sogn og Fjordane 8
Møre og Romsdal 11
Sør-Trøndelag 34
Nord-Trøndelag 8
Nordland 21
Troms 22
Finnmark 11
Totalt 1769 |
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Jenny Larsen (Larson) 1881-1919
