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slaleike
Junior member
USA
57 Posts |
 Posted - 23/04/2014 : 07:40:23
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Hello again to those helping with this search. I've had a very busy month, but at least have managed to make the initial request for my grandmother's divorce records for when she divorced Robert Offerdahl. I contacted the county where she was born and lived in most of her life (Portage, in Wisconsin). If they don't find anything there, I will check next with Marathon County, where they lived when my mother was born. They told me it could easily be at least 2 - 3 weeks before they find the records, or lack thereof. Hopefully the divorce record will be able to give me another address for Robert. I chose to look for the divorce record first rather than the marriage, because of cost ($5 vs. $20), and because it will put me farther into those "missing" years, between 1930 and 1965 (hospitalization dismissal, about 1 year before his death).
I still haven't found anyone who belongs to ancestry.com to look up that family tree for me and initiate contact. I did learn that I can use the library computers to do that search, but will have to make time for a special trip out there when I have a full day free.
I will definitely be back as soon as I hear anything, and hopefully before that, as time allows. Once again, a very heartfelt thank you to all of you!
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slaleike
Junior member
USA
57 Posts |
Posted - 01/05/2014 : 04:07:40
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Just stopping in briefly to say I've already heard back from Portage County. Turn-around time was less than 2 weeks! They're sending me copies of the divorce records for Eleanor and Robert Offerdahl.
I do have a bit of info already: marriage was 20 June 1928; divorce granted on 1 December 1936. The clerk said that there was no address given for Robert, so there was an affadavit of some sort, and she said something about a "sheriff's publication," if I understood her correctly.
Hope to have the papers in hand by early next week, and will report then. It's starting to feel like Robert just doesn't want to be found, but any insights I can gain from this will be a plus. |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
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slaleike
Junior member
USA
57 Posts |
Posted - 08/05/2014 : 06:53:59
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quote:
Originally posted by jkmarler
Since he is in the SSDI you might want to request his SS-5. Here is some general information about that:
http://genealogy.about.com/od/online_records/a/ss5_request.htm
Thanks for that link. I checked the info there, and am a bit confused. If I understand the requirements for applying for a copy of the SS-5, since Robert was born in 1900, and thus is less than 120 years old, I will need to first procure a copy of his death certificate.
That will probably take a bit more phoning and guesswork (and money), but seems the best way to proceed. Am I correct? Thanks. |
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slaleike
Junior member
USA
57 Posts |
Posted - 08/05/2014 : 07:06:41
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I have received the copies of the divorce records of Robert Offerdahl and Eleanor Swenson Offerdahl. As a result, I have a bit more information, and a bit larger mystery than before!
They were married on 20 June 1928, in Crookston, MN. This location was totally unexpected! I had been wondering previously how it was that Robert had ended up in central Wisconsin. Now it seems that the question is actually: How did Eleanor get to Crookston, and why? I've already spent considerable time researching Crookston as it may have been in the late 1920s. Makes perfect sense for Robert to be there; it was a major railroad hub, and he was working for a MN-based railroad at the time of his Selective Service paperwork.
Here's an intriguing hint: I remember my grandmother Eleanor telling me, approximately 1963-ish....."Grandma was a flapper girl." There was a bit of a twinkle in her eye. I even have a set of her "flapper beads."
Second set of confusing facts: According to the paperwork I received, "...the parties have not been living together since March 30, 1930...."
Stated thusly, either it was a date pulled out of thin air by my grandmother for her attorneys, or when the April 1930 census was taken, she was trying to cover for Robert's absence by stating he was "traveling." Now I am also wondering if he was not present in Wausau/Antigo when my mother was born. Does anyone know if fathers were required to sign birth certificates back then, if they were actively involved with the family?
I may not be able to get back on this forum for a few days, but welcome any insights. Thanks! |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
Posted - 08/05/2014 : 09:31:46
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Maybe they had a "destination" wedding in Crookston? License issued elsewhere with the marriage occurring in Crookston. That I say since there is no record of a Robert Offerdahl marriage in 1928 in the Polk County (Crookston's county) records at MOMS (Minnesota Official Marriages System) website and Polk county is completely covered in the database.
Any kind of record of service of the papers in the divorce papers? One time saw a divorce record in which the wife left her husband and there were postal receipts and letters from distant postmasters stating that the mail delivering his divorce action was undeliverable to the wife, the wife was not found.
As to why your grandmother might have been in Crookston there was a (I think, 2 year) technical college in Crookston then and now..
At the moment the census was taken if it was taken in April 1930, she may still have believed him only to have been gone on business rather than gone entirely. Or the wording of the definition of the census year might be at play, for example "Names of all residents customarily residing within the household from June 1879 to June 1880." I don't know what the regs are for the 1930 but just possible it's something like that.
It appears likely that Robert died in Iowa (newspaper account of illness) and then the last residence in SSDI, so the State of Iowa would be the place to see about his death certificate.
On my birth certificate, my father's birth certificate (1932), my mother's birth certificate (1930) the mothers were the informants, the doctor or doctor's administration filling in the information on the cert and signing. |
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slaleike
Junior member
USA
57 Posts |
Posted - 13/05/2014 : 05:38:31
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quote:
Originally posted by jkmarler
Maybe they had a "destination" wedding in Crookston? License issued elsewhere with the marriage occurring in Crookston. That I say since there is no record of a Robert Offerdahl marriage in 1928 in the Polk County (Crookston's county) records at MOMS (Minnesota Official Marriages System) website and Polk county is completely covered in the database.
Any kind of record of service of the papers in the divorce papers? One time saw a divorce record in which the wife left her husband and there were postal receipts and letters from distant postmasters stating that the mail delivering his divorce action was undeliverable to the wife, the wife was not found.
As to why your grandmother might have been in Crookston there was a (I think, 2 year) technical college in Crookston then and now..
At the moment the census was taken if it was taken in April 1930, she may still have believed him only to have been gone on business rather than gone entirely. Or the wording of the definition of the census year might be at play, for example "Names of all residents customarily residing within the household from June 1879 to June 1880." I don't know what the regs are for the 1930 but just possible it's something like that.
It appears likely that Robert died in Iowa (newspaper account of illness) and then the last residence in SSDI, so the State of Iowa would be the place to see about his death certificate.
On my birth certificate, my father's birth certificate (1932), my mother's birth certificate (1930) the mothers were the informants, the doctor or doctor's administration filling in the information on the cert and signing.
I want to thank you so very much for all the above info and the name of the MN web site. I had already thought about contacting Polk County for a marriage license search, but the phone number wasn't on their website when I looked ("under construction" type comments...), and it got put on the "go-back-later" list. So you saved me both time and money there! Again, thanks! I'll take time to look at that MOMS site when things slow down in a few days.
So this sure opens up some more questions. I wonder how much proof Eleanor had to give the attorneys (license to marry, for example....or marriage certificate...). There are copies of two publication-based searches/announcements of the divorce action with the papers I got from Portage County. They were published in 2 of the closest papers. No idea if that was a cost saving issue, or if they thought Robert was still in the area. I am sometimes now wondering if he never came to Wisconsin at all....if my grandma came back to her original community pregnant and alone.
Eleanor may have headed that far west for more schooling, but there were quite a few opportunities much closer to home. She might have wanted to escape the fate of her mother, Ida, who had worked as a household servant in Stevens Point before her marriage. Eleanor was almost 26 when she got married. A destination-type wedding seems a bit out of character; the family was not prone to moving or traveling much, from what I understand. Wausau was only 30 miles or so from Stevens Point, and no one moved much farther away from there than that. In fact, when my parents moved 150 miles away from Stevens Point, they met with a huge amount of resistance and criticism.
My question about the birth certificate informant was based on current practice in my state. We must obtain the father's signature, in addition to the mother's, if at all possible. Probably has to do with potential support issues.
Once again, so very many thanks for your help and insights. |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
Posted - 21/05/2014 : 23:36:58
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This doesn't do much to advance the search for information on Robert Offerdahl, but I searched the Rowberg File for the first time in 9 months and found this obituary. There wasn't one for Samson Offerdahl or Robert, but this was a really nice one about your great grandmother. The Rowberg Biographical file was a "morgue" collected by Andrew Rowberg the editor of the Northfield, Minnesota Independent from about 1914-1969. Mostly consists of obituaries. I may have misinterpreted some of the fraktur typeface.
Originally published in Skandinaven, 30 Jan 1924 written and submitted by Laura Bratager
“Mrs. Sonneve Offerdahl, 5025 Xerxas Ave., afgik ved Døden den 8 de Januar 1924 paa Fairview Hospital, Minneapolis. Hendes Død var en direkte Følge af er Ulykkestillsærlde 10 Dage tilligere, idet hun nær sit hjem ventede paa en Sporvogen, blev flaaret overende af to Hunde, der rendte mod hende, og is Faldet brak hun venstre Læg paa 4 Steder. Komplikation indtraadte, der havde Døden tilfølge.
Mrs. Offerdahl var født I Sogndal Sogn, Norge den 16de August 1860. Blev gift I Bergen, Norge den 12te Juli 1885, til Samson Offerdahl, søm overlever hende tilligemed
Døtrene Aagot, Jenny, Dagny samt Sønnen Robert, og en Dattersøn Eugene Farris. To Børn døde I en ung Alder. Hun efterlader sig ligeledes en Søster, Mrs. A. Johnson.
Mrs. Offerdahl var en los, glad karakter, afholdt og respektere af alle, den kjendte hende. Kjæstri, bjælpsom og gudsryatig, var hun en of Grunvillerne I det, some var det jevne og I det stille bogger op Samfundet.
Hun forsømte ikke sin Kirkegang endskjønt Beien var lang til Hope Lutherske kirke, hvor hun trølig tøg Del in det kirkelige Arbeide til det sidste.
Hendes Kjærligved til Norge of alt søm var norsk var ligesaa trofast som hendes Virke I hjem og Kirke here.
Hun døde I Troen paa sin Frelser og ved hild Be_idsthed til sidste øieblik, hendes sidste Ord var : “Kom herre Jesus og tag mig hjem til dig.”
Mrs. Offerdahl var Medlem of Signa Loge No. 2, Døtre af Norge hvoraf mange Medlemmer mødte til Begravelsen og Lagde sin Kraus ved Siden af det vældige Blomsterflor som s___ktede hendes Baare.
Begravelsen Foregik den 11te (or 14te?) Januar fra Hjemmet og fra Hope lutherske Kirke, hvor Pastor C. S. Thorpe I veivalgte Ord gav en udførlig Beskrivelse af hendes Liv og Virke, og I dobtsølt Sympati og Medfølelse med de gjenlevende Baarørende udtalte sin egen of den store Forsamlings Bemod og Savn.
Hun hviler efter eget øuike paa Hillside Gravplads, Minneapolis.”
Even though it's likely Samson died in Wisconsin, he still may have been buried by Synneve so writing to the sexton of the cemetery might be useful in finding a deathdate for Samson.
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Edited by - jkmarler on 21/05/2014 23:42:06 |
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slaleike
Junior member
USA
57 Posts |
Posted - 23/05/2014 : 05:44:43
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jkmarler: Thank you ever so much for this!
I fumbled through the Norwegian a bit already, and have been trying to make sense of the vocabulary. I have tried entering the entire bit in some online translation services, but they don't seem to do much better with some of the words than I have.
(I looked into Norwegian dictionaries awhile back. They seemed to only be available as little tourist items for a few dollars, or huge things in the $60 range. I've been fluent in Spanish most of my life, and believe in having the best dictionaries possible, but don't really want to spend quite that much on one just now. Probably will have to some day if I can't find a better option.)
So, anyway, what I seem to be deciphering, if crudely, is that Synneve died from complications of some sort of accident. Various translations of the text or single words imply that the following may have been involved: blocks of ice (possibly falling), a tram, a dog, being near her home, and brackets....or perhaps broken (something). Synneve may have been sitting (bench at a tram stop?) when the accident occurred? She perhaps survived for 10 days after.
I was able to figure out the reference to Jesus in the verse, and understand now that she was active in her Lutheran faith (I think!). I believe one line referenced her sewing/needlework ability; that would be lovely to know, as I have inherited that gene from Eleanor already. To be twice blessed that way would be sublime!
I'll keep pecking away at this most endearing and intriguing puzzle over the weekend. I believe I have previously read that Samson did indeed die in Wisconsin. I think he may even have been living with Jennie. I will check my notes.
You all are the most amazing people to help complete strangers in this most personal of ways. I hope you all have a wonderful holiday weekend. Belated mid-May festivities greetings to those of you in Norway....which is my way of saying I can't remember if it's the 16th or 17th.....Most of my historical expertise lies with Mexican events. Must study Norway more, more, more. Though, as an aside, I found that Google translate kept insisting that the words I was looking for were Danish, and I have a small understanding of why. |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
Posted - 23/05/2014 : 06:53:21
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Denmark's ruler ruled Norway for several hundreds of years, that explains the commonality of the language. 17 May 1814 was the day Norway's Constitution was signed--a big holiday today. Near that same time Denmark lost Norway--Denmark was on the wrong side in the Napoleonic era wars and had to give up Norway & Norway was made to form a union with Sweden from 1814 to 1905. Another patriotic holiday in Norway is 5 June the date the union with Sweden was dissolved.
"Faldet... etc" I think says "the fall broke her left leg in 4 places." |
Edited by - jkmarler on 23/05/2014 15:57:30 |
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slaleike
Junior member
USA
57 Posts |
Posted - 24/05/2014 : 06:10:43
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Thanks for that clarification! It's pretty amazing that multiple fractures like that could lead to fatal complications. But, almost 100 years ago, even in a large city, I'm sure working with infections was not as (relatively) simple as today. I'll check with a med/surg RN friend of mine, but it seems possible that infection would have been a likely culprit, especially if there was a fracture that broke through the skin. Plus she was already 64, which was probably more difficult to be back then than now.
Oh, my poor great grandma.....a year ago I had never given her much thought, and now I'm wondering how the dog, the street car, and the ice all came to cause her death.....
Which brings me back to Robert, because this all happened just 6 years before he left my grandma and mom. |
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slaleike
Junior member
USA
57 Posts |
Posted - 26/05/2014 : 05:17:13
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Just a brief update. I finally remembered to check the MN marriage data base. There is a marriage certificate record with perfectly matching names and date for Robert and Eleanor in Carlton County.....
I'll be calling the recorder's office up there next week to request a copy.
Now I'm wondering if indeed Eleanor was not required to produce any kind of documentation of her marriage when she initiated divorce proceedings. Carlton.....Crookston....
Both begin with "c," end with "-ton," and are near the state line....in one case the western line, in the other the eastern. In the late 1930s, maps may not have been as detailed as they are now. There certainly wasn't the ability to just "google" a location to learn more. I wish I knew more about how geographically astute Eleanor was. She only left the Portage County area rarely, mostly to go to Door County where her second husband had land, and that wasn't until after 1942. She never learned to drive until around 1961, and then never drove anywhere other than near where she lived. Always took public transportation or rode with friends and relatives.
Curiouser and curiouser it gets. |
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Patty Peterson
Starting member
USA
29 Posts |
Posted - 08/09/2014 : 03:18:30
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| Susan, if you get this message, I am your relative who started the Offerdahl post. I think if you click on my name it will show you my email address. Send me an email please. So excited my sister found your posts! |
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slaleike
Junior member
USA
57 Posts |
Posted - 08/09/2014 : 04:20:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Patty Peterson
Susan, if you get this message, I am your relative who started the Offerdahl post. I think if you click on my name it will show you my email address. Send me an email please. So excited my sister found your posts!
Sometimes I really appreciate the internet! Have sent email per request, and just want to give great thanks to the folks in Norway who first thought to put this website up.
I will still get back with that (even more confusing than ever!) info about where Robert and Eleanor got married. Currently recovering from serious bee sting in my right hand and can't type well or without pain. |
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Patty Peterson
Starting member
USA
29 Posts |
Posted - 10/09/2014 : 02:27:38
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quote:
Originally posted by slaleike
quote:
Originally posted by Patty Peterson
Susan, if you get this message, I am your relative who started the Offerdahl post. I think if you click on my name it will show you my email address. Send me an email please. So excited my sister found your posts!
Sometimes I really appreciate the internet! Have sent email per request, and just want to give great thanks to the folks in Norway who first thought to put this website up.
I will still get back with that (even more confusing than ever!) info about where Robert and Eleanor got married. Currently recovering from serious bee sting in my right hand and can't type well or without pain.
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Offerdahl family: Samson, Synneve, & children
