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sabingd
Medium member
USA
85 Posts |
 Posted - 21/01/2015 : 04:50:53
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Looking for information on the wife and children of Sigurd Gautesson
Birth Bef. 1375 in Norway Death Aft. 1416 |
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Hopkins
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3351 Posts |
Posted - 21/01/2015 : 12:32:29
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Are you asking about Sigurd Gautesen who was connected to the Torsnes farm in Jondal, in what is now Hordaland?
Church records for Jondal are only existing for years as early as circa 1670.
Have you checked the books “Jondal i gamal og ny tid”, 2 volumes by Olav Kolltveit? (Available on microfilm through the Salt Lake City Family History Library.) |
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Kåarto
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
5861 Posts |
Posted - 21/01/2015 : 14:13:40
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Descendants in Norway after the Gautesson/Galte Family use lastname Galtung.
The Galte Family is mentioned in many pages and document online, most in Norwegian.
Here is a family tree on Sigurd Gauteson Galte (Hog) on Torsnes link
Occ. "Fehirde" Treasurer in Tønsberg, treasurer in Bergen, Knight and Noble man
In a document written on Talgje April 18.1407 7 generations on Torsnes are mentioned, the doc. is wrtitten on old Norse, the names of the 7 goes like this;
"ollum monnum peim sem.... All men who see or hear this letter.....those mentioned here has ovned Torsnes one after the other: Viking on Torsnes (lived in the 1100s), his daughter Inga, her son Guttorm Kalvsson, his son Sigurd Guttormsson, his son Guttorm Sigurdson, his son Sigurd Guttormsson, his two sons Guttorm and Baard Sigurdsson.
Farm Torsnes, photo by genealogist Elin Galtung Lihaug link
This farm has belonged to the same family from 1100s until today.
Glass paintings on Torsnes from ca 1636 link preserved when the main building was demolished 1825.
Kåre |
Edited by - Kåarto on 21/01/2015 19:46:54 |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9301 Posts |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9301 Posts |
Posted - 21/01/2015 : 17:37:00
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One of the best sources for good information on ancient Norwegian families can be found in the CD sold by Odd Handegård. It is called "Vår felles slektshistorie" and is well documented and well respected. Here is a link to his website.
http://www.valeforlag.no/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=5&Itemid=4
Chapter six in his "Book on a CD" covers the "Galt eller Galtulng " family in 55 pages.
In a table titled "Etterkommer etter Gaut på Orsnes" Odd lists Sigurd Gautson Galte 1200 as married to Sigurd?.
He lists two children
Eirik Sigurdson Galte 1300
and Gaute Sigurdson (Voss?)
His sources are Steinnes (1968), Løberg (2000), and Ugulen.
These are articles by well respected Norwegian genealogists. Any information beyond what is found in Handegårds book should be treated as somewhat speculative.
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Edited by - AntonH on 21/01/2015 18:05:58 |
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sabingd
Medium member
USA
85 Posts |
Posted - 23/01/2015 : 01:05:15
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Thank you to the work all of you have done. I hope this information will help out.
I have taken the DNA test and my family tree is linked to Sigurd Gautesson Birth Bef. 1375 in Norway Death Aft. 1416. The tree I am linked to shows Sigard's father as, Gaut Unge Gautssøn, av Mel and Sigurd's wife as N.N. Baardsdtr Birth in Norheim, Kvam, Norway and Death unknown. One of their children is Bård Sigurdsson, birth1410 in Torsnes. Bard was married to Gyrid Torbergsdatter
Birth1432. Two of their children were, Gyrid Bårdsdatter Birth in Torsnes and Herborg Bårdsdatter Birth? Death?
The DNA match shows my connection to Sigurd Gautesson on a matching DNA to my 2nd great granfather Daniel Andersen Loen or (possibly Daniel Andersen Loen Rake), born and died in Norway. My 2nd great grand mother and spouce of Daniel, was Gjertrud Elisabeth Arntsdatter Rake, Birth1815 in Innvik, Sogn og Fjordane, Norway.
The DNA connection possibly comes through Daniels mother who is, Davidsdtr Mindre Sunde. The most common Norwegian area for the people in my tree is, Innvik, Sogn og Fjordane, Norway.
Now for the motivation behind this search. The matching DNA tree goes back to King of Norway Håkon IV the Elder Håkonson
Birth1204 in Folkinsberg, Eidsberg, Ostfold, Norway Death16 Dec 1263 in Kirkwall, Orkney Islands, Scotland I hoping to either varify or rule this connection out.
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sabingd
Medium member
USA
85 Posts |
Posted - 23/01/2015 : 01:09:45
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Lindl 40:
Is the book you referred to available in english? |
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Kåarto
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
5861 Posts |
Posted - 23/01/2015 : 17:38:20
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quote:
Originally posted by sabingd
Now for the motivation behind this search. The matching DNA tree goes back to King of Norway Håkon IV the Elder Håkonson
Birth1204 in Folkinsberg, Eidsberg, Ostfold, Norway Death16 Dec 1263 in Kirkwall, Orkney Islands, Scotland I hoping to either varify or rule this connection out.
King Håkon IV Håkonsson got sick during a military campagn against the king of Scotland 1263 and died in Kirkwall.
His 1. born son Sigurd b. 1225 died 1254 (Mother was Kanga the young)
Some genealogists think Sigurd had a daughter Joron (unknown mother) who married into the Gaut/Gautsson family and had a son Sigurd.
Kåre |
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sabingd
Medium member
USA
85 Posts |
Posted - 23/01/2015 : 22:30:40
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| Thank you. |
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Kåarto
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
5861 Posts |
Posted - 23/01/2015 : 22:49:54
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This topic in English has the same conclusion reg. Joronn Sigurdsdatter.
The owner of this familytree has done a great research.
Perhaps genealogists and historians come to a final conclusion one day.
Gaut Jonsson Mel, Lendmann (the highest ranked in the kings guard) in 1217, participated in the civil war against the Ribbung Party 1222 and Sysselmann (the kings Public advocate) and king Håkon IV Håkonssons advicer for many years
Gaut Jonsson carried the coronation-sword when Prince Magnus married Princess Ingeborg in Bergen autumn 1261.
Gaut Jonsson died 1270.
Source; "Norsk Biografisk Leksikon" Norwegian Biographical Encyclopedia Link
Kåre |
Edited by - Kåarto on 24/01/2015 11:39:45 |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9301 Posts |
Posted - 24/01/2015 : 01:47:52
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quote:
Lindl 40:
Is the book you referred to available in english?
No
However, I looked at the family tree that Kåre provided a link to, and one of the references that is used for the section on "Gaut " Den unge" Gautsson på Hatteberg (b. 1219, d. date unknown)" is listed as
879. Henrik O. Lunde, Some Old Norse Families
The version I have is titled "Rolfsnes, Åse and related families". It is a two volume set Volume I Later Generations about 500 pages and Volume II Earlier Generations is over 1000 pages. These two volumes are also well researched.
I purchased them some years ago through the publisher.
Enoch Haga Publisher
Livermore, California
First Edition 2002.
I see that both the volumes I have, and the newer and much shorter volume "Some Old Norse Families" are available through Amazon. They are not low cost but are very valuable if you are researching ancient Norwegian families. And they are in English.
This book has a chapter titled "The Aga Galte Line" about 35 pages long and goes into great length on the various disputes among Norwegian geneologists about the family line you are interested in.
In Henriks Family Table 5 of this chapter he has, the line as follows.
Gaute of Ænes (Ornes?)
d. abt. 1160
Jon Gauteson of Ænes (Ornes?)
d. aft. 1181
Gaut Jonson of Mel
d. 1270
Gaut Gauteson of Hatteberg
d. aft. 1288
Sigurd Gauteson
d. aft. 1341
Erik Sigurdson
Three children are listed for Erik
Olov Erikdsdtr.
Gyrid
Gaute Erikson
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Edited by - AntonH on 24/01/2015 02:14:50 |
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sabingd
Medium member
USA
85 Posts |
Posted - 24/01/2015 : 05:18:53
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| This is all very interesting. I will check to see if I can get the books. |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9301 Posts |
Posted - 24/01/2015 : 18:08:21
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If you are interested in pursuing family trees of ancient norwegian families, it is good to have a much help as you can get. For example, in the Charles Arendts tree linked above he lists the wife of Sigurd Gautesson as Ellen Taraldsdatter Kane. There is some disagreement among professional Norwegain Genealogists about the validity of that.
Here is what Henrik Lunde has to say:
"Magnus Mardal, on the other hand believes that Toralde Sigurdson was the son of the royal treasurer Sigurd Gauteson, the son of Baron Gaute Gauteson of Hatteberg. He is also of the opinion tht there is a connection to the Kane family. The hypothetical relationship he suggests is that the royal treasurer Sigrd Gauteson was married to a sister of Gunnar Toraldeson, (my add here ie Ellen Toraldsdtr Kane}, another royal treasurer. Tore Vigerust on the other hand characterizes the claim that Toralde Sigurdson was related to the Kane or Mel families as being without foundation without giving any detailed reason for his view."
The key words in any discussion of ancient norwegian families is "hypothetical", "without foundation" , and "no proof". All of these issues are argued out in the scholarly publicaton "Norsk Slektshistorik Tidskrif" Even if one can read Norwegian it is a tough slog to understand the arguements. What a book like Henriks does is present these arguements, gives his opinion on some of the issues but in the end leaves it up to the reader to determine if there is enough weight on one side to allow one to construct a family tree. But you can then undestand how shaky the tree is that you are constructing.
I might add here that Tore Vigerust was before his recent death, the most preeminet Norwegian Geneologist of his time and to have him arguing against your conclusions was not a good place to be. |
Edited by - AntonH on 24/01/2015 18:17:26 |
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Kåarto
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
5861 Posts |
Posted - 25/01/2015 : 22:30:44
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Gunnar Toraldsen Kane is supposed to be the forefather of the Kane genuis in Norway and must not be mixed with his grandson with the same name. I can not confirm this this Family tree.
Source reg. Gunnar Toraldesn Kane; Tore Vigerust
Today Kane is an extinct Norwegian noble Family, the last Kane (male line) was "Lensherre" (the kings Seignory) Arild/Arald Kane who was killed by farmers on a meeting on Sunnmøre 1396. He was married to Ingerd Erlendsdatter from the Losna Family.
1398 the farmers were judged to pay large fines.
Kåre |
Edited by - Kåarto on 27/01/2015 13:48:36 |
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JaneC
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3020 Posts |
Posted - 26/01/2015 : 01:12:28
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from lyndal40: "You can then understand how shaky the tree is that you are constructing."
sabingd, you have recently posted two queries that kick start with information peeled off someone else's online family tree and in those two cases you did not provide sources (same as here- you ask the forum to "trust you" that a certain person existed). This does not reflect a serious / scholarly research approach. Also in those two cases your information was seriously flawed, and you did not seem to understand that it was flawed, despite the forum's effort to explain. I have no quarrel with that history - as you've consulted an excellent resource (this forum) as you learn and grow in this genealogy endeavor.
But, I do advise that you view family trees online only as a source of "maybe" information. Here you've jumped straight back to the 1300s despite that it's clear you aren't (yet!) proficient enough to have verified a genealogy stretching from you/yours back in time, in Norway, so far.
Thus the forum is not saying anyone discussed in this thread is in any way related to you.
In yet another, earlier thread, you asked "What do the names mean," on the far right in a baptismal record. No one answered that question - it got overlooked somehow. Now, there's a question worth asking - one that DOES pertain to your genealogy. Those names are baptismal sponsors (godparents), who can be family, friends, or neighbors of the child's parents.
Perhaps somehow you've arrived accurately in the 1300s in Norway, with an accurate and verifiable paper trail, and the subject of this query is indeed related to you. That might be true - or not. The evidence is not in, as far as the forum is concerned. If you share the source of your information - the forum would be in a better position to judge. Sharing the SOURCE of information is not optional. It is a requirement in any research endeavor, in any field.
As for the DNA connection, as I understand it, the DNA trail you cite jumps from male to female and cannot be definitive without an accompanying paper trail. Sigurd Gauteson is listed in an available family tree but your own ancestor might be another individual who doesn't happen to appear on a family tree on the particular website you used (but don't name).
In future, when posing questions that grow out of a perusal of someone's family tree, I suggest you state the name of the tree and where it can be accessed - or even better, post a link to it. Let the forum help you verify your connection to the tree, and track the genealogy back in appropriate fashion (one generation at a time).
Discussing Norwegians who lived at the edge of genealogical time is fine, and I find the forum comments VERY interesting and enjoyable to read. The caution I'm offering is that you not misconstrue this discussion as a verification that this is your family. The forum doesn't know that, is not asserting that.
Shortcuts are tempting, but sometimes people get lost when using a shortcut. To follow a "map," to your own heritage, map reading skills are vital (like knowing how to interpret a baptism record). When those skills are lacking, a skilled navigator can help, but only if you clarify where you're starting from.
Sorry... |
Edited by - JaneC on 26/01/2015 01:49:33 |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9301 Posts |
Posted - 26/01/2015 : 01:48:42
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A cautionary note on tracing your family back in time to various old Norwegain Royalty was raised some years ago by Lars Løberg. It bears reading.
http://www.rogalandslag.org/Files/Kings&Queens910227.pdf
One thing we can take from the article of Lar's is this paragraph.
"A very interesting discussion took place in Norwegian
newspapers, mainly in the Dagbladet, from November
1989 to January 1990. More than 40 articles were
published, and the topic of the discussion was whether or
not it is possible to trace one's ancestors back to the kings
and vikings. Even though there were different opinions,
the conclusion seemed to be that with a couple of
exceptions this was not possible, at least not scientifically
provable" |
Edited by - AntonH on 26/01/2015 03:27:05 |
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Looking for information on Sigurd Gautesson
