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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9301 Posts |
 Posted - 04/02/2015 : 17:30:41
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quote:
So when you mentioned Audun Hestakorn Hugleiksson Hegranes, I find I am having difficulty understanding what you are telling me. Is it that Audun is related to Andrew Danelsen Leon Rake, or does your link refer to how I can get misled by information
Both, I was telling you that Audun is related to Andrew and that this is yet another Family Tree that takes one back to ancient norwegian royalty.
I was also pointing out that one has to approach the data in Geni.com and most all online family trees with some degree of skepticism. However one can look for the use of good sources and be somewhat comforted if the family tree uses them. Some family trees do use a lot of sources, some of them very good including the use of Bygdebøker a very valuable resource.
I was also telling you that a Geni.com Family Tree contains a close relative of yours Andrew Danielsen Loen Rake and that you might find some interesting information on him on this site. Also I mentioned the two managers of the Family Tree since you can contact them through Geni.com if you are a member and maybe learn more about your family history. I suspect that Jahn Harald Loen lives in Norway and could be a useful source for you about your family tree.
I do not want to discourage you completely from both using online family trees and from pursuing your ancestors back in time. I just wanted to alert you to some of the pitfalls of using data from family trees especially when the tree gets back beyond about 1500. A small amount of that data is accurate and one can use it, as long as it uses good sources. In most cases this rules out using other online family trees as good sources for your family tree. One needs books or scholarly articles to venture past 1500.
But you can with some effort develop your family tree back to 1700 using the Digitalarkivet orginal sources such as those shown above by Einar. You can also use the Bygdebøker ie farm histories to supplement the original records and in many cases go back another 200 years. Once you become adept at doing that you will be able to reognize good data and suspect data.
And lastly I was making fun of family trees by pointing out that using them I could show that you and I are cousins. Distant cousins of course.
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Edited by - AntonH on 04/02/2015 22:42:53 |
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JaneC
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3020 Posts |
Posted - 04/02/2015 : 21:17:57
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| Well said. ;-) |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9301 Posts |
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sabingd
Medium member
USA
85 Posts |
Posted - 05/02/2015 : 04:09:22
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eibache:
Thank you for the information on Anders Danielsen Rake. The information is filling numerous gaps in my records. Thank you for the time you spent putting this together.
In fact, I would like to thank everyone for the information I have received. I often feel like I am not catching on to the steep learning curve as quickly as I would like, but at the same time I feel like I have learned so much from all of you. I will do all I can to make the most of the work you are doing to help me out. |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9301 Posts |
Posted - 05/02/2015 : 04:22:35
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Since the Geni.com search I mentioned earlier showed us to be cousins, I wanted to explore that further. I started on my side of the family tree since I know that side best. In my Family Tree not on Geni.com I had stopped at a Jørgen Mogens Høgelit since the Bygdebok I was using stopped at that person. The Bygdebok I was using was Birkenes Ætt Og Odel by Johan Tveite. Birkenes being a parish within the Vest-Agder County.
Here is a link to that same person on the Geni.com tree.
http://www.geni.com/people/J%C3%B8rgen-H%C3%B8igilt/6000000006589171043?through=6000000006420968961
Location plays an important part in my evaluation of the information. If you tell me that you have found an ancestor of mine and he lived in either Aust-Agder or Vest-Agder County (Fylke in Norwegian but more like a small state in the US, think West Virginia), I would likely believe you as I have had ancestors there for at least 500 years. . If you said either Telemark or Rogaland two neighboring Counties, I would give you the benefit of the doubt since I have a few ancestors from those Counties. If you named other Counties further away I would be sceptical.
Anyway the Geni.com tree has as his mother Åse Jensdatter Stausland and as her father
Jens Bentsen Stausland
Birth: circa 1505
Lagmannsgården Holmegård, Holum, Mandal, Vest-Agder, Norway
Death: circa 1552 (47)
Stausland, Søgne, Vest-Agder, Norway
And his father as
Bent Henningsson Fuskeland (Blaker) MP
Birth: 1470
Blaker, Lom
Death: 1532 (62)
Høllen, Søgne, Vest-Agder, Norway (Drept
I am still comfortable with this line up to this point because they have stayed in my usual geographaical area of the Agder Region of Norway. however in the next generation we run into problems. The Geni.com tree lists Bents father as
Henning Guttormsen Munk (Blaker) MP
Birth: circa 1427
Blaker, Gudbrandsdalen
Death: circa 1484 (57)
Lom, Oppland, Norge
When I see the birth place listed as Gudbrandsdalen and the death place listed as Oppland, alarm bells go off in my head. These are areas ie Gudbrandsdalen or Counties ie Oppland quite a long ways from the area where I usually find my ancestors. People do move around in Norway even in ancient times but usually not very far.
Fortunately one of the Geni.com watch dogs a Curator Anne M Berge has stepped in and in Norwegian has posted at the top of the page for Bent Henningsson Fuskeland (Blaker) MP the following message. Translanted into English by me, correctly I hope.
"Hardly the son of Henning Guttormsen Munch - if anyone has sources for this, enter your profile page and tell your profile administrator."
Another warning, that Anne M Berge a respected Norwegian genealogist also does not believe this leap.
Here is a link to the page in Geni.com for Bent, so you can examine how this works.
http://www.geni.com/people/Bent-Henningsson-Lagmann/6000000006589092511?through=6000000006420968961
So in the end we are not likely cousins and a good example of how once past the 1500 year mark things can and usually go wrong.
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Edited by - AntonH on 05/02/2015 04:33:37 |
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sabingd
Medium member
USA
85 Posts |
Posted - 05/02/2015 : 04:32:11
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eibache:
Thank you for the information on Anders Danielsen Rake. The information is filling numerous gaps in my records. Thank you for the time you spent putting this together.
In fact, I would like to thank everyone for the information I have received. I often feel like I am not catching on to the steep learning curve as quickly as I would like, but at the same time I feel like I have learned so much from all of you. I will do all I can to make the most of the work you are doing to help me out. |
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sabingd
Medium member
USA
85 Posts |
Posted - 05/02/2015 : 09:19:30
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I must tell you that I began taking a deeper look at eibache's inforamation and followed the link to Geni.com. I believe this is finally sinking in and I began to realize how much I was takeing from other trees with no effort on my part to farivy the information. You are making me that much more determined to do this correctly and I am starting to enter events and facts that I had in the past, felt as though they were not important enough to enter into the history. I held off on this work of filling in the history because I was so intent on moving through the tree as fast as I could. That was a bad Idea and I am putting the brakes on it.
Arent Daniel Rake of Winnebago county, Minnesota was my grand father. His wife was Petra A. Holms. Petra's surname was Holon. When the family lived in Lake Ibsen, Benson, North Dakota. But it was rummered that her fathe John Holon set out for Alaska and never retured. The only thing that makes me believe it is true is that a census suddenly shows Petra's mother as a head of the household and they had changed their name to Holms. What great stories I have missed out on for the sake rushin to the past. I will be consintrating on my grand father and great grand futher for the rest of the week but I will be checking in soon. So if you come up with anything new, I would love to hear about it.
Dave |
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eibache
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
6495 Posts |
Posted - 05/02/2015 : 09:32:32
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sabingd,
you are welcome, always glad to be of help.
Please also note that I have corrected som mistakes in my earlier postings.
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Einar |
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eibache
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
6495 Posts |
Posted - 05/02/2015 : 10:14:07
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John Lassesens wife Anna Knudsdatter was baptized Febr 11 1776, see 13th record on right page.
Her parents were Knud Zachariasen and Pernille Larsdatter, Grow.
Knud Zachariasen, Grow and Pernille Larsdatter, Glomnæs were married May 25 1775, see 3rd couple in 1775.
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Einar |
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eibache
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
6495 Posts |
Posted - 05/02/2015 : 10:28:17
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Anders Marcusen, Loen and Ingebor Davidsdatter, Murri were married June 22 1800, see 6th couple on right page.
Ingebor Davidsdatter was baptized Aug 23 1772, see 4th record from bottom of right page.
Her parents were David Danielsen and Siri Jonsdatter, Murri.
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Einar |
Edited by - eibache on 05/02/2015 10:36:13 |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
Posted - 05/02/2015 : 22:04:01
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quote:
Originally posted by sabingd
I must tell you that I began taking a deeper look at eibache's inforamation and followed the link to Geni.com. I believe this is finally sinking in and I began to realize how much I was takeing from other trees with no effort on my part to farivy the information. You are making me that much more determined to do this correctly and I am starting to enter events and facts that I had in the past, felt as though they were not important enough to enter into the history. I held off on this work of filling in the history because I was so intent on moving through the tree as fast as I could. That was a bad Idea and I am putting the brakes on it.
Arent Daniel Rake of Winnebago county, Minnesota was my grand father. His wife was Petra A. Holms. Petra's surname was Holon. When the family lived in Lake Ibsen, Benson, North Dakota. But it was rummered that her fathe John Holon set out for Alaska and never retured. The only thing that makes me believe it is true is that a census suddenly shows Petra's mother as a head of the household and they had changed their name to Holms. What great stories I have missed out on for the sake rushin to the past. I will be consintrating on my grand father and great grand futher for the rest of the week but I will be checking in soon. So if you come up with anything new, I would love to hear about it.
Dave
Here is Petra's family in 1900 name carried / transcribed as Holen
John Holen Head M 45 Norway
Moran Holen Wife F 45 Norway
Ragna Holen Daughter F 13 Minnesota
Anna Holen Daughter F 11 North Dakota
Petra Holen Daughter F 8 North Dakota
Ragull Amsen Servant F 77 Norway
John's death or disappearance had to occur after about 1901 since in the 1910 census there is a son named Johan Holm b abt 1901. The Ragull Amsen is Ragnil Arneson and is still with the family in 1910 and is listed as grandmother. Many of Petra's and Arents' children are found in Iowa Births database and Petra is listed as Holm in the majority but Holand in one.
Petra and Arnt married in 1913 in Polk county, Minnesota. |
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sabingd
Medium member
USA
85 Posts |
Posted - 05/02/2015 : 22:41:46
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Once I know what is written, (for example, Ingebor Davidsdatter), I can then sort of make it out. I am totally amazed that you can even locate it in the first place.
In the second line of Anders Marcusen, Loen and Ingebor Davidsdatter, Murri Marrage. I think I see Margre Rassmuson Loen og and Erick Ibo. Am I even close on that? These records are so tough to read but I will try.
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eibache
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
6495 Posts |
Posted - 05/02/2015 : 23:17:38
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quote:
In the second line of Anders Marcusen, Loen and Ingebor Davidsdatter, Murri Marrage. I think I see Margre Rassmuson Loen og and Erick Ibo. Am I even close on that? These records are so tough to read but I will try.
You are close, the guarantors were Magne Rasmusen, Loen and Erich ibid = the same, meaning Loen.
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Einar |
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sabingd
Medium member
USA
85 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2015 : 04:13:16
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| Thank you. Even just being close is encouraging. |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9301 Posts |
Posted - 07/02/2015 : 00:01:26
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Earlier I mentioned the use of Bygdebøker as a source of information on families. A Bygdebok usually consists of mostly farm histories.Although some Bygdebøker give a lot of family information includiing farm owners, wives, children and their wives as well as dates for births, marriages and deaths. Others only give the basic informaton and focus on the ownership of the farm. The bygdebok that covers your area gives only the basic information. For your family the Bygdebok is for Innvik parish, Loen farm. The informaton is found in this Bygdebok.
Aaland, Jacob. Nordfjord frå gamle dagar til no, v. 3B 1974 DL576.N6 A4 Farms Olden, Innvik & Utvik parishes; Reprint. The University of Minnesota, Wilson Library has a copy. I was there today doing some of my own work so I gave it a quick look.
The first member of your ancestors listed on the Loen farm is listed on No. 1. Eiriksbr. (ie the part of Loen known as Eriks farm )
Jacob Simensen Haugen died 47 years old, buried in 1709, probably came to the Loen farm in 1700. First wife was name Anne, Second wife was named Brite Magnesdatter Tjugen.
For Jacobs son a second farm on Loen was broken off and called No. 2 Markusbr. And the first owner was
Simon Jacobson Loen died 59 years old buried in 1767 born 1733 (probably a calculated year). married to Anne Salvedatter Sande
Here is a link to the death record for Simon Jacobsen Loen, Lower left page 15 March in the year 1767.
http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=11506&idx_id=11506&uid=ny&idx_side=-231
Simon and Anne had daughter Brite Simensdtr Loen died at 78 and buried 1819. She married Markus Andersson Hatl. (probably the farm Hatledd).
Here is a link to her death record, right page see number 4
http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=11508&idx_id=11508&uid=ny&idx_side=-105
The farm went next to
Anders Markusson died at 84 years old buried 1853 , married Ingeb. Davidsd. Muri d 64 years old buried 1835 . I did not find his death record but here is the death record for Ingebog. See number 130 for May 5 on the right hand page.
http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=11511&idx_id=11511&uid=ny&idx_side=-76]
The farm then went to the oldest son which in this case was
Markus d 88 years old born 1821 and the older brother of your ancestor Daniel.
This is as much digging as I have done in the Bygdebok, but I will take another look next week.
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Edited by - AntonH on 07/02/2015 00:30:57 |
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Looking for information on Sigurd Gautesson
