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davehunter
Starting member
United Kingdom
9 Posts |
 Posted - 04/05/2015 : 20:45:32
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HI Ive been trying to trace my relatives who live in Norway but have come up against a brick wall, even the newspapers do not reply to me !
My Grandads name was Lorietza Larsen? I think he may have been born in Oslo in 1859. The naming system in Norway is very confusing; it's anyone’s guess at the moment. I have seen a lot of Norwegian names spelt Lauritz maybe that would be it. He definitely was naturalised as any foreigners were sent back to their country at war time if not??
If he was naturalised then he would have had to put down his real name and full particulars, including his father’s name. Tracking down his naturalisation papers would be helpful. The reason I think it was him that my auntie found him on the ship "BURTON" on the 1881 census is because he had his name down as Louis Lawson, but born in Horten Norway in 1859, age 22 years. His father’s name was also Louis Lawson. As he obviously had changed his name from his Norwegian one to Louis, his father would not have been called Louis Lawson also!!!
Apparently, everyone thought he was a lot older than he said he was, therefore on his marriage certificate, I think he was really 38, not 28, which would mean the 1859 birthdate was correct. Also, we have a photo with the people named Solfrid Gunnar, July 1955, possibly getting married.
any help please |
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jwiborg
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
4961 Posts |
Posted - 04/05/2015 : 22:14:50
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Hi Dave,
a bit too many rumors and presumptions in your topic here. You need to divide the information you have about your grandfather into facts and your own presumptions.
Which UK sources do you have for him?
The various census'es and other records like birth, marriage, death, military and immigration should be investigated to narrow down his original name and year of birth. Some UK records might even contain his city of birth.
Name, year of birth and year of immigration is vital info.
Lauritz Larsen sounds like a good norwegian name. Lorietza is not! But pronouncing "Lorietza", it might sounds like it could have been Lauritz.
And what sources do you have for his year of birth = 1859?
If you can locate him in these censuses; his year of birth should be possible to narrow down:
1871 England Census
1881 England Census
1891 England Census
1901 England Census
1911 England Census
You also say you think he is from Oslo? Why? You later say he could be from Horten.
But first of all; make a list of the facts you have, and another list of your presumptions. In that way, we can make our own presumptions here based on your facts, and not based on your rumours... 
Please also include other info you know about the family, ie name and y.o.b. of his wife and children, and where they lived.
And suddenly; Solfrid and Gunnar is getting married, hundred years later. How did they get into the picture? That was a shot from the hip!  |
Edited by - jwiborg on 04/05/2015 23:06:23 |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9301 Posts |
Posted - 05/05/2015 : 05:05:05
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In an earlier post on another site, you mentioned that his date of death was April 15, 1946. Here is a Louis Lawson from a Family Tree on Ancestry.com that seems to fit somewhat with your Louis Lawson.
Louis Lawson
Birth abt 1872 in Christiana Norway
Death 15 Apr 1946 in Grimsby, Lincolnshire, England
Wife is listed as
Florence Ellen Winney
Birth Oct 1878 in Grimsby Lincolnshire
Death Dec 1962 in Grimsby, Lincolnshire, England
They also cite this record for this man
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Louis Lawson in the 1911 England Census
Name: Louis Lawson
Age in 1911: 39
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1872
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Christiana Norway
Civil Parish: Great Grimsby
County/Island: Lincolnshire
Country: England
Street address: 98 Orwell Street Grimsby
Marital Status: Married
Occupation: Lumper
Registration district: Grimsby
Registration District Number: 422
Sub-registration district: Great Grimsby
ED, institution, or vessel: 15
Piece: 19961
Household Members:
Name Age
Louis Lawson 39
Florence Lawson 31
John Louis Lawson 12
Florence May Lawson 11
George Albert Lawson 10
Thomas Edwin Lawson 8
William Arthur Lawson 4
Vislet Isabel Lawson 3
Jessie Francis Lawson 1
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Edited by - AntonH on 05/05/2015 16:12:49 |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
Posted - 05/05/2015 : 13:50:47
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The marriage of the parents for the family Anton found is transcribed here:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NFWY-5V8
Name: Louis Lawson
Birth Date: 1869
Age: 28
Spouse's Name: Florence Ellen Winney
Spouse's Birth Date: 1878
Spouse's Age: 19
Event Date: 07 Nov 1897
Event Place: Great Grimsby, Lincoln, England
Father's Name: Louis Lawson
Spouse's Father's Name: John Winney
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: M17113-3 , System Origin: England-EASy , GS Film number: 1542136
Another Louis Lawson, born Norway about 1853 who married Emma Robinson has lived in England from at least 1879, which is yours?
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Edited by - jkmarler on 05/05/2015 13:54:33 |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9301 Posts |
Posted - 05/05/2015 : 16:02:03
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Interesting find Jackie, here is the same type of information on the second Louis Lawson from a different Ancestry.com Family Tree.
Louis Lawson
Birth 1855 in Moss, Norway,
Wife is listed as
Emma Ann Robinson
Birth 1857 in Liverpool, Lancashire, England
They cite this record for this Louis Lawson.
Lewis Lawson in the 1891 England Census
Name: Lewis Lawson
Age: 36
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1855
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Emma A Lawson
Gender: Male
Where born: Moss, Norway
Civil Parish: Liverpool
Ecclesiastical parish: St Matthew
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Registration district: Liverpool
Sub registration district: St Martin
ED, institution, or vessel: 8
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 2899
Folio: 81
Page Number: 14
Household Members:
Name Age
Lewis Lawson 36
Emma A Lawson 34
Amelia Lawson 8
Martha J Lawson 5
Emma A Lawson 2
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Edited by - AntonH on 05/05/2015 16:09:39 |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9301 Posts |
Posted - 05/05/2015 : 16:24:12
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quote:
His father’s name was also Louis Lawson. As he obviously had changed his name from his Norwegian one to Louis, his father would not have been called Louis Lawson also!!!
A rather common change for Norwegians who came to America was the change of Lars to Louis. It happened with one of my great-uncles. Also it would be relatively easy for his father to have had the same name, a bit unusual perhaps but fairly easy. The father could be Lars Larsen and if he also named his son Lars both the father and the son would carry the name Lars Larsen.
In fact in Ancestry.com on the data base.
"All Norway, Select Baptisms, 1634-1927 results for Lars Larsen"
There are 3,350 Lars Larsens with father of the same name ie Lars Larsen, for example
Name: Lars Larsen
Gender: Male
Baptism Date: 15 mai 1785 (15 May 1785)
Baptism Place: Os,Hordaland,Norway
Father: Lars Larsen
Mother: Gurru Andersdr
There is even a Lauritz Larsen with father also named Lauritz Larsen.
Name: Lauritz Larsen
Gender: Male
Baptism Date: 20 nov 1874
Baptism Place: , Kristiansand, Vest-Agder, Norway
Father: Lauritz Larsen
Mother: Sofie Christine Tallaksen
Here is an article on Norwegian naming practices.
http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~norway/na12.html
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Edited by - AntonH on 05/05/2015 16:59:03 |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9301 Posts |
Posted - 05/05/2015 : 17:08:41
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It would appear that the Louis Lawson who lived in Grimsby carried the middle name Martin. In the 1911 Census one of the children is named Violet (Vislet?).
Louis Martin Lawson in the Great Britain, Select Marriages, 1797-1988
Name: Louis Martin Lawson
Gender: Male
Child: Violet Isabell Lawson
Name: Lewis M Lawson
[Louis M Lawson]
Birth Date: abt 1869
Date of Registration: Jun 1946
Age at Death: 77
Registration district: Grimsby
Inferred County: Lincolnshire
Volume: 7a
Page: 597
England & Wales, Death Index, 1916-2007
Name: Lewis M Lawson
[Louis M Lawson]
Birth Date: abt 1869
Date of Registration: Jun 1946
Age at Death: 77
Registration district: Grimsby
Inferred County: Lincolnshire
Volume: 7a
Page: 597 |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
Posted - 05/05/2015 : 18:30:24
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Here is the marriage transcription for Lewis Lawson and Emma Robinson:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NNS4-DCJ
Name: Lewis Lawson
Birth Date: 1853
Age: 26
Spouse's Name: Emma Ann Robinson
Spouse's Birth Date: 1857
Spouse's Age: 22
Event Date: 30 Jul 1879
Event Place: Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Father's Name: Lars Lawson
Spouse's Father's Name: Edward Robinson
Marital Status: Single
Spouse's Marital Status: Single
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: M00750-0 , System Origin: England-EASy , GS Film number: 1656686 , Reference ID: it 2, p 101, no 202
Still in Liverpool in 1881:
Name: Louis Lawson
Age (Original): 27
Gender: Male
Birth Year: 1854
Birthplace: Norway
Relationship to Head of Household: Head
Marital Status: Married
Occupation: Ships Quarter Master (Seaman)
Address: 10 Bostock Street
Event Place: Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Record Type: Household
Affiliate Publication Number: RG11
Piece/Folio: 3594 / 130
Page Number: 42
Household Role Gender Age Birthplace
Louis Lawson Head M 27 Norway
Emma Lawson Wife F 23 Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Louisa Lawson Daughter F 0 Liverpool, Lancashire, England
GS Film number: 1341860
Louis' entry in the 1911 census reflects his age as 58 and the other Louis Lawson entry in the 1911 census reflects his age as 39. So about 20 years different between the 2.
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Edited by - jkmarler on 05/05/2015 18:45:11 |
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davehunter
Starting member
United Kingdom
9 Posts |
Posted - 05/05/2015 : 18:50:53
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Hi Lyndel 40. This is my family from Orwell Street in Grimsby.
quote:
Originally posted by lyndal40
In an earlier post on another site, you mentioned that his date of death was April 15, 1946. Here is a Louis Lawson from a Family Tree on Ancestry.com that seems to fit somewhat with your Louis Lawson.
Louis Lawson
Birth abt 1872 in Christiana Norway
Death 15 Apr 1946 in Grimsby, Lincolnshire, England
Wife is listed as
Florence Ellen Winney
Birth Oct 1878 in Grimsby Lincolnshire
Death Dec 1962 in Grimsby, Lincolnshire, England
They also cite this record for this man
.
Louis Lawson in the 1911 England Census
Name: Louis Lawson
Age in 1911: 39
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1872
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Christiana Norway
Civil Parish: Great Grimsby
County/Island: Lincolnshire
Country: England
Street address: 98 Orwell Street Grimsby
Marital Status: Married
Occupation: Lumper
Registration district: Grimsby
Registration District Number: 422
Sub-registration district: Great Grimsby
ED, institution, or vessel: 15
Piece: 19961
Household Members:
Name Age
Louis Lawson 39
Florence Lawson 31
John Louis Lawson 12
Florence May Lawson 11
George Albert Lawson 10
Thomas Edwin Lawson 8
William Arthur Lawson 4
Vislet Isabel Lawson 3
Jessie Francis Lawson 1
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
Posted - 05/05/2015 : 19:30:17
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Laurits / Lauritz /Lorents born Kristiania in 1869 in 1875 census
Full list:
Inge Lauritz Munthe 1869 Kristiania s ug Kristiania: Akers Gade 34 m Folketelling 1875 for 0301 Kristiania kjøpstad
Lauritz Eugen Larsen 1869 Kristiania No 155 søn Kristiania: Bentsegade 1 m Folketelling 1875 for 0301 Kristiania kjøpstad
Johan Lauritz Tønsberg 1869 Kristiania s ug Kristiania: Grønl.leret 32, 32b m Folketelling 1875 for 0301 Kristiania kjøpstad
Axsel Lauris Larsen 1869 Kristiania s Kristiania: Oslogade 9 m Folketelling 1875 for 0301 Kristiania kjøpstad
Lauritz Michalsen 1869 Kristiania s Kristiania: Oslo Strandgade 18 m Folketelling 1875 for 0301 Kristiania kjøpstad
Lorentz Berggreen 1869 Kristiania s Kristiania: Youngs Gade 9 m Folketelling 1875 for 0301 Kristiania kjøpstad
Lorentz Georg Colberg 1869 Kristiania s Kristiania: Bentsegade 2 m Folketelling 1875 for 0301 Kristiania kjøpstad
One of the "Larsen" last name:
019 06 Martin Larsen 1827 Aker hf g Skibstømmermand b
020 06 Anete Larsen 1840 Kristiania kone g b
021 06 Lars Christian Larsen 1867 Kristiania s b
022 06 Axsel Lauris Larsen 1869 Kristiania s b
023 06 Adolf Hagebert Larsen 1872 Kristiania s b
024 06 Edevard Tjedor Larsen 1874 Kristiania s b |
Edited by - jkmarler on 05/05/2015 19:41:47 |
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jwiborg
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
4961 Posts |
Posted - 05/05/2015 : 21:16:57
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This must be wife and son in census-1901:
Florence Clawson
ESTIMATED BIRTH YEAR: 1879
COUNTY/ISLAND: Lincolnshire
COUNTRY: England
John L Clawson
BIRTH: abt 1899 - city, Lincolnshire, England
RESIDENCE: township, Great Grimsby , Lincolnshire
Is the husband listed with them?
Found this person, but not sure if he lives with Florence and son:
NAME: Charles Clawson
ESTIMATED BIRTH YEAR: 1871
SPOUSE: Florence Clawson
COUNTY/ISLAND: Lincolnshire
COUNTRY: England |
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jwiborg
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
4961 Posts |
Posted - 05/05/2015 : 21:21:45
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It would be of interest to know why you think his name was Lorietza or Lauritz.
Any written sources for that? Or family folklore? |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9301 Posts |
Posted - 05/05/2015 : 22:11:55
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quote:
Is the husband listed with them?
Probably not looks like she is living with her two brothers John and Albert Wenney (Winney?)
This is the family in 1891 before Florence married Louis Lawson.
John Wenney in the 1891 England Census
Name: John Wenney
Age: 37
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1854
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Mary A Wenney
Gender: Male
Where born: Manningtree, Essex, England
Civil Parish: Clee with Weelsby
Ecclesiastical parish: St John
Town: New Clee
County/Island: Lincolnshire
Country: England
Household Members:
Name Age
John Wenney 37
Mary A Wenney 35
Thomas Wenney 14
Florence Wenney 12
John Wenney 10
Albert Wenney 8
George Wenney 7
William Wenney 8
Harriet Wenney 3
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9301 Posts |
Posted - 05/05/2015 : 22:48:46
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For what it is worth, a diffeent Family Tree on Ancestry.com gives infomation that cites a "Wedding Certificate of Louis Lawson & Florence Winnet"
The infomation includes the fact that the father of Louis Lawson, who they list as Louis Martin Lawson was deceased at the time of the wedding ie, "before 07 Nov 1897". They also list an exact birth date for Louis Lawson.
Louis Lawson
Birth 17 Apr 1872 in Christiana, Norway
Death 15 Apr 1946 in Grimsby, Lincolnshire, England
I did not find anyone named Lars Larsen living in Oslo born between 1871 to 1872 in the 1875 Census.
They also list his address when he married as 83 Orwell Street, Grimsby. I notice that the address for Florence Clawson (Lawson) and children found by Jan Peter is 12 Nacton Street, which Google Maps lists as 246 feet from 83 Orwell Street, ie one street over and around the corner. Both places are on the waters edge.
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Edited by - AntonH on 05/05/2015 23:32:54 |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
Posted - 06/05/2015 : 01:22:40
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| It would be of interest to know what the source is for the exact date of birth. |
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Topic |
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missing relatives in Norway
