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Pgalb
Medium member
USA
80 Posts |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9301 Posts |
 Posted - 17/11/2015 : 22:14:36
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Arrival of Anders Benjamin Skjei in 1899. Travelling with him are Alma 14 and Petra age 16.
Anders Benjaminson Skir
in the U.S., Border Crossings from Canada to U.S., 1895-1956
Name: Anders Benjaminson Skir
Birth Date: abt 1838
Age: 60
Gender: Male
Race/Nationality: Norwegian
Arrival Date: 20 Jun 1898
Port of Arrival: Levis, Quebec, Canada
Ship Name: Carthaginian
Port of Departure: Liverpool, England
Residence Place: Domus
Record Type: Manifests
Line Number: 23
Going to join son Albert Andersen Skjei, Lake Worth, Minnesota, who is also listed as the person who bought the ticket. |
Edited by - AntonH on 17/11/2015 22:21:31 |
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JaneC
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3020 Posts |
Posted - 17/11/2015 : 22:27:47
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That's great Pam. Don't know if it helps to say, if you click on each link, you'll read each of the many messages in that long conversation. I linked to a different message, but the intention was to point out the thread as a whole.
About the boat record for Anders Benjaminsen Skei, lyndal40 found the rest, so...
Anders and daughters departed Trondhiem 01 June 1898, sailed to Hull, England.
From Hull they traveled (likely by train) to Liverpool.
They departed Liverpool on the Carthaginian and arrived in Quebec, Canada, 20 June 1898. |
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JaneC
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3020 Posts |
Posted - 17/11/2015 : 22:41:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Pgalb
Yes, Jane. You are indeed correct about the real question: did JMA have a son, unbeknownst to the family? First of all, let me say that my original post about the date of Olaf Brue's birth was only a guess. We now know that the Olaf Brue who emigrated here in 1914 as a 15 year old was born in June 1899. He is the same Olaf Brue who lived with JMAs family (according to the 1915 census).
I've contacted the cousin who has passed along the information. She said one of JMA's daughters leaked the secret to some of the family members years ago. Since that daughter has passed away, we have no way to verify the rumors with documentation or to know how she got her information.
We have Norwegian church record of Olaf's birth. It lists his mother "unmarried" at the time of his birth. It lists his father as Johan Bru. Johan is listed as a bachelor and Olaf's mother is listed as a "maid" in the same household. Is it possible that Johan stepped in to call himself Olaf's father even though he may not have been? Do records lie? That's why I'd like to find a boat record for JMA returning to Norway in 1898. If he did, then we might think it possible and investigate further. Otherwise, we can put this to rest if the two (JMA and Olaf's mother) didn't meet in Sept 1898.
JMA is not the father of Olaf Brue b 15 June 1899. It is unfortunate he's living with JMA in 1915, because that was misleading and led you to ask the wrong question. I say, who cares, we love researching stuff regardless.
At age 15, a boy could easily be living / working away from home. It is not unusual at all. There need be no kinship.
A baby is the child of the parents stated in the birth record. Personal knowledge that a record is false trumps that. So does a DNA test. Otherwise, the birth record itself IS the "proof" of a child's parentage. Genealogists can't and don't check to see who was in town that month.Maybe other forum posters have different ideas, but as far as I can see, no amount of travel by JMA would have ant bearing on what the churchbook says. In genealogy we use the record as the decider of who is who.
The pastor also asks for witnesses to who the father is, in an out-of-wedlock birth. He won't collude in a lie.
Take a mulligan on this one. Let's start over, and ask,
Did JMA have a secret love child?
Probably yes, since a family member said so. Obviously I have no basis except a gut reaction.
Who was that child? To find out, more starter info is needed, such as, did this happen in America or Norway. Since no more is known, in steps our trusty friend DNA testing. Enter into the Norway project at Family Tree DNA and see if descendants of the lost child are seeking you.
Another idea is to look again at the birth records of JMA children. I don't recall if any were conceived or born out of wedlock. I suppose the story could be wrong if a child heard a story about an out-of-wedlock situation, not realizing the baby alluded to was actually a known family member.
And always, there's the category of unknown other reasons, why the relative said there was a love child.
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Edited by - JaneC on 17/11/2015 23:10:40 |
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Pgalb
Medium member
USA
80 Posts |
Posted - 17/11/2015 : 23:29:32
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| Thank you for these insights, Jane. |
Pam galbraith |
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JaneC
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3020 Posts |
Posted - 17/11/2015 : 23:43:14
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| I am glad if it helped. For the record, for the peace of mind of my descendants: I did not have a love child. ^_~ |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
Posted - 18/11/2015 : 01:23:42
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| I guess one circumstantial problem I've seen with the John Mark Anderson vs Johan Bru question is that on 19 July 1898 Jens Skei was faddernes for a child Aksel Tanke son of Hans & Selmina Solfield in the Lake Park Lutheran church. Why as Jens Skei, why not as John Mark Anderson? So lets say he did go back to Norway would he have not been Jens (a very usual name in Norway) whatever rather than Johan (not John) Bru? |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9301 Posts |
Posted - 18/11/2015 : 01:43:53
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I wonder if we missed some things on John P Skei mentioned by Jackie earlier. In this topic
quote:
The birth record of Olaf identifies his father as Johan Bru b 1878 either born at Vorø or a resident there.
In the ELCA marriages database there is a marriage for a John P. Skei to an Andrea Olson on 2 Nov 1904 in Lake Park, Minnesota. Witnesses to the wedding are Mrs. Anne Skei and Anders Benjaminson.
This couple is at Cooperstown North Dakota in 1910 with their two children Eugene and Alice. The migration date for Johan says 1900
Here is a Jens H Skeie arriving in 1900.
Jens H Skeie
in the New York, Passenger Lists, 1820-1957
Name: Jens H Skeie
Arrival Date: 11 Apr 1900
Birth Date: abt 1878
Age: 22
Gender: Male
Ethnicity/ Nationality: Norwegian
Port of Departure: Liverpool, England
Port of Arrival: New York, New York
Ship Name: Oceanic
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Edited by - AntonH on 18/11/2015 01:45:39 |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9301 Posts |
Posted - 18/11/2015 : 01:52:26
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So Jackie shows he was born in 1878, different from John Mork born in 1872 and was married to Andrea in 1904.
Here he is with Andrea and child Ingval? born in Minnesota and age 2-12?, Maybe Eugene? and a Fred age 20 born in Norway.
Jens Skei
in the Minnesota, Territorial and State Censuses, 1849-1905
Name: Jens Skei
Age: 27
Census Date: 15 Jun 1905
County: Becker
Locality: Lake Park
Birth Location: Norway
Gender: Male
Estimated birth year: abt 1878
Race: White
Father's Birth Location: Norway
Mother's Birth Location: Norway
LINE: 27
Roll: MNSC_107 |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9301 Posts |
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Pgalb
Medium member
USA
80 Posts |
Posted - 18/11/2015 : 02:45:47
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| Jens Mork changed his name to John Mark Anderson after he moved to the US in 1893.I found a boat record on ancestry.com for John Anderson, a resident of Mn returning from Liverpool to Minneapolis in Oct 1898. Will look for the record TO Norway from the US. As there are many John Anderson's, it is a long shot that he went back to Norway. And why? |
Pam galbraith |
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Pgalb
Medium member
USA
80 Posts |
Posted - 18/11/2015 : 03:03:22
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| John Mark Anderson was married to Alice Nelson on dec 26, 1904. |
Pam galbraith |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
Posted - 18/11/2015 : 03:39:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Pgalb
John Mark Anderson was married to Alice Nelson on dec 26, 1904.
Do you know where? |
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Pgalb
Medium member
USA
80 Posts |
Posted - 18/11/2015 : 03:46:39
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| Outside of Moorhead, mn |
Pam galbraith |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9301 Posts |
Posted - 18/11/2015 : 03:50:32
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Minnesota?
Although the transcribed record shows the year to be 1905, the original record shows the year to be 1904.
John Anderson
in the U.S., Evangelical Lutheran Church of America, Records, 1875-1940
Name: John Anderson
Event Type: Marriage
Marriage Date: 26 Dec 1905
Marriage Place: Moorhead, Minnesota
Spouse: Olice Nelson
Church Name: Trinity Lutheran
Church Location: Moorhead, Minnesota |
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Olaf Brue
