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Kåarto
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
5861 Posts |
 Posted - 31/03/2016 : 21:33:33
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Exellent and impressing work Jan Peter 
These old words that do not exist today is very difficult to translate, even to Norwegian.
Colonel Rømer was colonel Hans Wilhelm Rømer in 2. Smålenske Infantry regiment where both Ole Gundersen Øyen and Kittil Bjørnsen Tjønn served as enlisted soldiers in Hitterdalske (Heddal) company.
The Rømer genus belongs to the old Norwegian ur nobility and he was married to Countness Trampe.
Kåre
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Marlys Nelson
Medium member
USA
77 Posts |
Posted - 01/04/2016 : 15:48:11
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First of all, jwiborg, thanks for the admirable translation job. I'm thinking the priest needed WRITING classes, if Liv needed READING classes. And was this the priest a parish was happy to see pass away because he was so derelict at getting the young folks confirmed??
However I think Kaarto has had an answer for me....and the bygdebok is wrong...where did you located the third Liv Jonsdtr., born in 1724? It would seem that a 19 year old Liv would more probably be the trouble maker who didn't pay attention in cathechism classes and then found herself pregnant, rather than a Liv, born in 1708 and 35 years old! I think the bygdebok has the two Liv's mixed together. If you can give me a link to the Liv born in 1724, Kaarto, I would be so appreciative. This is doubly important because my new great granddaughter (the first female in my husband's line in 80 years!!) is named Liv! |
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jwiborg
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
4961 Posts |
Posted - 01/04/2016 : 16:06:23
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The 3rd Liv is born 1742, not 1724, and is a niece of your Liv. The "troblemaker" with the illegitimate son and two marriages is Liv born 1708, ie 35 years old
Jon Taraldsen Traaer (1670 - 1741) & Liv Jonsdatter (1686 - 1711) had the following cildren:
1) Liv Jonsdatter Traaer (1708 -)
2) Torbjørg Jonsdatter Traaer (ca 1710-)
3) Jon Jonson Traaer (ca 1711-), wife: Sonef Olsdatter Løngdal (1708 - ). Their daughter: Liv Jonsdatter Traaer (1742-)
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Edited by - jwiborg on 01/04/2016 16:08:57 |
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Marlys Nelson
Medium member
USA
77 Posts |
Posted - 01/04/2016 : 16:32:24
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| Really strange to not be confirmed by age 35!! I guess we are back to the 'two marriages in quick succession' theme. I'm still a little suspicious of the bygdebok information, as they list a daughter, Gunhild, being born when Liv was 54 years old....she was just a late bloomer, all round! |
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jwiborg
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
4961 Posts |
Posted - 01/04/2016 : 17:24:59
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The priest must have been Niels Jacobsen Tulle (1696-1745). He was priest in Hjartdal parish 1739-1745.
It's said that he was very interested in the people of the congregation, and is known as an "able priest". A note about him says that he was the first priest to have confirmation for the youth in the rural areas. He was of poor health, and died after 5 years in office. He is buried in Hjartdal.
Niels has written his "accession message" in 1739 here. His previous profession was as Chaplain in Eidsvolds congregation. |
Edited by - jwiborg on 02/04/2016 08:57:18 |
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Hopkins
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3351 Posts |
Posted - 01/04/2016 : 19:16:31
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If Liv (b 1708) could not or would not read and write well enough to be confirmed then it really isn't surprising. She may have had some disability that would not have been recognized in that time period. She exhibited rather unusual behaviour also with the two quick marriages and at least one child out of wedlock. I only hope that the husband she spent many years with was a good influence on her and helped her.
Blaming the priest who came to that parish when Liv was already about 31 years old doesn't seem quite fair and actually a bit insulting. |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
Posted - 01/04/2016 : 20:34:31
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| I've seen a couple of cases in which an older person than usual got confirmed. There was a fellow in Aal Hallingdal in the 1760ish time frame who had to respond to a court order to be confirmed and finally did make it at age 40. I also know of a 20 something in early Goose River settlement days for whom the pastor would not perform a marriage until he got confirmed. |
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Kåarto
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
5861 Posts |
Posted - 01/04/2016 : 23:56:19
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In 1821 in Aal in Hallingdal two troublemakers called "Vestafor-kviten" and Halling taagjin did not want to learn to read or write. Vicar Strøm Grøtting lost patience with the two boys, both were 26 and called to duty as enlisted soldiers. Without being confirmed they could end up in jail. The conversation they had with Strøm-Grøtting must have been rather tough, it were two blue battered boys who came out of the priests office, and a complaint was send to the bishop.10 years later a chaplain was appointed as his assistent.
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jwiborg
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
4961 Posts |
Posted - 02/04/2016 : 11:48:28
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Tuddal in Hjartdal, Telemark, 25 May 1711:
Buried: Lif Traaer. "Dead in Winter, last part of January."
Christening: Jon Traaer's son Jon. "Born last part of January, christened (at home) by Ole Hofde(?)."
Liv (25) must have died in childbirth in last part of January 1711 when their son Jon was born.
The reason for burial in May is probably because of frost in the ground. This part of Norway has long winters and a lot of snow. It was also difficult for some people to reach the church during winter, due to weather and road conditions. The note under Lif says: "PS: 3 bodies are laying (here) and..."
In 1711, it was not possible to perform burials when the conditions was like this. Picture from Tuddal. |
Edited by - jwiborg on 02/04/2016 12:14:38 |
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Marlys Nelson
Medium member
USA
77 Posts |
Posted - 02/04/2016 : 17:36:34
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| Thanks jwiborg for continuing info on this rather unfortunate family. The bygdebok seems to indicate that the (infamous) Liv, Jr. and a sister were born in 1708 and then this Jon arrived three years later. So the father was left with three babies to raise. Enough material for a novel. My own father was born in January and not (formally) baptized until three months later....ON the anniversary of the death of the older brother for whom he was named! |
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Hopkins
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3351 Posts |
Posted - 02/04/2016 : 18:09:18
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| Check the bygdebok again. It indicates that the father remarried when he already had 4 children by his first wife and had at least 4 more with his second wife. There appears to be a fairly lengthy amount of narrative in that book about him after those basic family facts. |
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jwiborg
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
4961 Posts |
Posted - 02/04/2016 : 18:26:42
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| As I wrote 3 days ago, he married Sissel Olsdtr Rue (Nord-Rue) in 1713. |
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Two quick marriages.
