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kayryan
Starting member
Australia
11 Posts |
 Posted - 01/11/2016 : 23:41:13
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It still seems a mystery how Ole/John & Andrew arrived in Australia. My mother Mavis Joan Olsen(Oles Granddaughter) told me the twins came together and landed first in Adelaide. This may be the explanation of the arrival in 2 different ships by the twins to New South Wales. Of course this also could be inaccurate, as this is where they were meant to have "jumped ship".
I've ordered a marriage Certificate from NSW Births Deaths & Marriages which may confirm birth dates and parents for Ole and Andrew.
Interesting read on Wikipedia jkmarler on becoming Captain in the Salvation Army.
I may have to dig further to work out where Andrew ended up. I'm adding lots to my Family Tree thanks to your great work. I thought Ole would forever be a mystery. |
Edited by - kayryan on 02/11/2016 13:59:52 |
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Janeandroulakis
New on board
Australia
1 Posts |
Posted - 03/11/2016 : 04:34:30
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| Hello, I am JANE, Kay Ryan's sister in Australia. I would also like to thank all those that contributed to our search about our great grandfather John (ole) Olse and extended family. What a marvellous effort and so fast. Thanks again. Jane. |
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kayryan
Starting member
Australia
11 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2016 : 00:58:13
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I've just located a Naturalization document on interactive.ancestry.com which sounds like it may be my Great Grandfather Ole (known in Australia as John) Olsen:
John Olsen
Native of Christianson(this possibly meant to be Christiano) Norway
29 Yrs old.
Mariner
Arrived New South Wales by ship Peterborough in 1879
Resided in Colony seven years
Dated 18/8/1886.
This would work out correctly to his assumed birth year of 1857.
Also ordered a marriage certificate for Ole & Emily from NSW Births Deaths & Marriages. This however didn't give me his birth date or parents names as I hoped it would, to confirm those details. |
Edited by - kayryan on 05/11/2016 01:00:57 |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2016 : 01:09:44
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At the Trove the Peterborough is described as an emigrant / immigrant ship. It arrived at Sydney from Plymouth on 4 May 1879. A telegraphic dispatch dated 22 April 1879 says Peterborough left London with 618 immigrants, published 3 May 1879.
The arrival of the Peterborough was reported arrived on 4 May 1879 in the Sydney paper Mail 1680 ton, Captain Gardener, 512 immigrants. 22 Feb from Plymouth. J Frazer and Co, agents. |
Edited by - jkmarler on 05/11/2016 01:35:02 |
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JaneC
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3020 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2016 : 04:12:09
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quote:
Originally posted by JaneC]
Naturalization record below. (Source: State Records Authority of New South Wales; Kingswood, New South Wales, Australia; Series: Registers of Certificates of Naturalization, 1849-1859 and 1876-1903; Series Number: NRS 1040; Roll: 139)
Naturalized: 10 Feb 1902
John Olsen of Grafton
a native of Christiania, Norway [=Oslo]
age 44 years
who is a laborer
and arrived in the state of New South Wales
by the ship Koonoowarra in the year 1885
who has resided in said state for 16 years
swears allegiance etc
Naturalized: 24 Feb 1902
Andrew Olsen of East Orange
a native of Christiania, Norway [=Oslo]
age 44 years
who is a dealer(? I'm not sure what the handwriting says)
and arrived in the state of New South Wales
by the ship Austral in the year 1885
who has resided in said state for 16 years
swears allegiance etc
....
1913 Australia Electoral Rolls
East Orange (sub-district), New South Wales, Orange (district), Australia
Name: Andrew Olsen
Residence Address: Edward Street, East Orange
Occupation: dealer
Evelyn Olsen at the same address, occupation: domestic duties
...
Sydney, Australia, Cemetery Headstone Transcriptions
Name: Evelyn Olsen
Age: 90
Birth Date: 12 May 1872
Death Date: 14 Feb 1963
Burial Place: Sydney, New South Wales, Australia
Cemetery: Macquarie Park
Section: A Row: 2
Inscription: wife of Andrew. b. 12 May 1872
Denomination: Baptist
How does the 1886 document fit with the one above, posted earlier? It has been discussed quite a bit; I don't recall any one challenging it as applying to the right John Olsen.
Can both naturalization papers refer to the same person? I think it's safe to say that in this forum most of us may not be familiar with Australian naturalization process.
The record above specifically refers to John Olsen of Grafton.
Also, twin brother Andrew is taking care of this same business at the same time. The electoral rolls record for Andrew, along with its link to the burial site, identifies Andrew in East Orange as John's twin, or at least that is a more than reasonable conclusion.The headstones for John and Andrew, in the same cemetery, are inscribed with their full birth dates. Evelyn is the name of Andrew's wife on the electoral list. And Evelyn's adjacent headstone is inscribed "wife of Andrew," according to this cemetery transcription project.
I posted Andrew electoral roll and Evelyn headstone inscription specifically to show why the selected naturalization record for Andrew seems correct.
I'll reread the new posts, but at the moment I'm not understanding the sudden shift (which I think is unexplained?) to a different naturalization record.
Puzzled, clarification needed. :-)
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Edited by - JaneC on 05/11/2016 04:58:32 |
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JaneC
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3020 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2016 : 04:52:24
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quote:
Originally posted by kayryan
Also ordered a marriage certificate for Ole & Emily from NSW Births Deaths & Marriages. This however didn't give me his birth date or parents names as I hoped it would, to confirm those details.
Good for you - that's excellent.
One point of identification is not cleared up in the forum. We don't know the source for saying Ole = John. Where did you read or hear that? Is it a family story, that John's original name was Ole?
It is very very hard to believe this could be incorrect. The story about the change in names checked out beautifully - the John/Andrew twins in Australia perfectly match the babies Ole/Andreas birth record in Norway. I'm not challenging the accuracy, just asking the source.
As a second question, is the groom on the marriage record listed with the name Ole? You refer to it as a marriage record for Ole.
My interpretation is that you have NOT told us what the marriage record says, you don't mean it literally says "Ole." Just checking. |
Edited by - JaneC on 05/11/2016 05:02:30 |
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kayryan
Starting member
Australia
11 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2016 : 15:14:46
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Jane the source of the information on my Great Grandfathers name was indeed from family. As my mother (Mavis Olsen) was born in 1919 & my Aunt( Lorraine Olsen) in 1915(his Granddaughters) I'm guessing they both knew him, as both were adults when he died. They also lived in New South Wales. (Which I don't. I live in Victoria which is far from NSW.) This is the only evidence of his name originally being Ole.
The name on the copy of the marriage Certificate is John Olsen, which I agree doesn't prove that he was born Ole.
I've contacted a Government Department in New South Wales, to ask if there is information on a name change for John Olsen through Deed Poll. I'll be interested in a possible reply. As to my find of an alternative ship and date of his arrival. The Naturalization document is a copy for a John Olsen, with all but the mention of "from Grafton" on it. The age he was at the time of arrival and his Naturalization made sense to me when I found it. It seemed to agree with your find of him being born in 1857 rather than a bit later. I can see that I may be wrong on this one. On one hand the birth dates say 1857, but the death dates say he was born 1858. Confusing! Thanks for all your information. Much appreciated.
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JaneC
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3020 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2016 : 15:44:16
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Hi again, thanks for sharing the source of the name Ole. Those family members are excellent sources. The story of John being born "Ole" checked out through the research. The name change doesn't need further verification in my opinion. You've already proved it.
I don't think the 1886 naturalization record is correct. I think the one first posted is correct, naturalized in 1902.
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Edited by - JaneC on 05/11/2016 19:00:15 |
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kayryan
Starting member
Australia
11 Posts |
Posted - 06/11/2016 : 07:09:01
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| Hi again Jane. Yes let's go with the Grafton 1902 Naturalization record, as it does make sense. It was a pity I didn't begin my search a few years ago. My Mum died at 73, but my Aunt Lorraine lived to the grand age of 96, & died in 2012. Both were very smart ladies, with great memories. I do wonder of the origins of the myth that John & Andrew " jumped ship". It's a romantic idea and made for a good story to tell us. I'll still be interested to see if I get any reply to my email about the name change. I'll keep you posted on that one if it happens. |
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Seeking Information on GG Father Ole Olsen
