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dtang
Junior member
USA
45 Posts |
 Posted - 23/08/2017 : 17:43:11
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In 2013 I posted asking for help in locating emigration/immigration information for my paternal grandfather, Jens Olsen Tang (b. 28 Apr 1862 in Hafslo)... “Search for my grandfather” http://www.norwayheritage.com/snitz/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=5807&whichpage=1
Kåre (quickly) found that Jens Olsen Tang (b. 1862) and Synneve Olsdatter Tang (b. 1867) dep. Bergen 10 March 1882(Allen line). Although at the time I was not able to locate travel and passenger list information (to USA), the contributions by many (Kåre , Einar, Hopkins, JaneC, jkmarler...) led to much info about my Norway roots and how to find information in the Digitalarkivet and elsewhere. Because of all your help (and patience) I wanted to let you know that I didn't give up the search and I believe I have found the information about my grandfather’s arrival in the USA (when, how, and with whom). I would ask your opinion about whether what I found is correct (strong enough evidence).
My reasoning is as follows: I have included links to sources and added some notes to help explain some observations that helped along the way.
(1) Jens Olsen & Synneve Olsdatter Tang dep. Bergen, 10 March 1882 on the Allen line. They are lines #306 and #308 (Nr 133, Nr 135).
Source 1: Emigration from Bergen (10 March 1882)
http://gda.arkivverket.no/cgi-win/webcens.exe?slag=visbase&filnamn=0212EMIG&personpostnr=307&merk=307
NOTE 1: The name, “Anna Larsdatter Næs”(line #307, Nr 134), appears between those of Jens Olsen and Synneva Olsdatter Tang , and Anna leaves Bergen on same day (10 March 1882). This is important because she is listed in the ship’s (S/S Peruvian) manifest as traveling with a Jens O and Syenneve Tang with arrival in Halifax, NS (Sources 2.1 and 2.2 below). In the passenger list she is listed as Anna L ” (for ditto meaning Tang)… believe it should be Næs.
(2) Jens O. Tang, Anna L “ (ditto), and Synneve “ (ditto) are listed as passengers traveling together on S/S Peruvian, Allen Line (Canadian Library and Archives, passenger lists, 1865-1922). The Peruvian departed Liverpool England (and Queenstown, Ireland) March 15 (16) 1882, and arrived in Halifax, NS on 27 March 1882.
Source 2.1: Arrival Halifax, NS (#1) Gives port of departure and arrival info for S/S Peruvian (Allen line). Page 11 (of 16) of the passenger list with is where I found the names “Jens O Tang, Anna L ?, and Synevve Olsdatter Tang”.
http://www.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/discover/immigration/immigration-records/passenger-lists/passenger-lists-1865-1922/Pages/item.aspx?IdNumber=1874&
Source 2.2: Arrival Halifax, NS (#2) [Jens O Tang, Anna L (“Tang”) and Synneve Tang are listed on page 11/16 [under #5187].
http://www.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/discover/immigration/immigration-records/passenger-lists/passenger-lists-1865-1922/Pages/image.aspx?Image=e003541297&URLjpg=http%3A%2F%2Fcentral.bac-lac.gc.ca%2F.item%2F%3Fid%3De003541297%26op%3Dimg%26app%3Dpassengerlist&Ecopy=e003541297
NOTE 2: On the passenger list (Source 2.2), the ages of Jens O and Synneve Tang are 19 and 15 which are consistent with their known birth dates. It also indicates they are going to Lake Park, Minnesota where Jens did go.
NOTE 3: The passenger list (page11 of 16) shows Jens, Anna, Synneve as traveling together (# 5187). The name following Jens O Tang is given as “Anna L ' (ditto meaning Tang).” I believe she is not a Tang but is really “Anna L (Larsdatter) Næs” (age 25) who is listed as departing Bergen, 10 March 1882 with Jens Olsen and Synneva Olsdtr Tang (Source 1).
NOTE 4: Finding the S/S Peruvian (Allen line) was a matter of luck. I used the Norway-Heritage database for emigrant arrivals (Arrivals reported in Norwegian newspapers, 1870-1894) to determine that the most likely Allen line ship that my Grandfather might be on was the S/S Peruvian (Allen line). I assumed that Jens followed the common route which was to Hull on a feeder line (Wilson?) and a rail trip to Liverpool to get on the ship to America. The only Allen line ship consistent with dep. Bergen on 10 March 1882 (and leaving Liverpool shortly after) was the S/S Peruvian which dep. Liverpool 15 Mar 1882 with arrival in Halifax,NS 25 Mar 1882. This led me to the passenger list for S/S Peruvian (Allen line) through the immigration data base for the Library and Archives Canada. It was fortunate that page 11/16 was readable …most were not.
If you believe I have located the information for my Grandfather's arrival into USA (through Canada), then two questions:
(Q1) Do records exist that might give information about which ship, passenger list, travel contracts with Allen Line, etc. for the trip from Bergen to Hull to Liverpool? I have assumed he went the usual route …by ship of a feeder line (Wilson line) and then by train to Liverpool. I did find a ship Hero [Hero(2)] of the Wilson line that departed Bergen-Stavanger on 11 March 1882. This is a day later than the 10 March 1882 date given in Digitalarkivet (Source 1), but this 1day difference is not unusual, and seems best bet.
(Q2) Could Anna Larsdatter Næs be a relative of my grandfather, Jens Olsen Tang? I have not been successful in answering.
I apologize for the length of this post, but thought it important to provide as much info as possible.
Many thanks again for all your help to discover where my grandfather finished his trip from Bergen in 1862.
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DougT |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9301 Posts |
Posted - 23/08/2017 : 21:32:23
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We are never sorry when a poster gives too much information, the more the better. I do think that you have found the passenger lsit for the arrival of Jens O Tang and fellow travelers. It might interest you to see how Ancestry.com transcribed the arrival.
Jena O Jang
in the Canadian Passenger Lists, 1865-1935
Name: Jena O Jang
Gender: Male
Age: 19
Birth Year: abt 1863
Date of Arrival: 27 Mar 1882
Vessel: Peruvian
Port of Arrival: Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada; Portland, Maine, USA
Port of Departure: Liverpool, England; Queenstown, Ireland |
Edited by - AntonH on 23/08/2017 22:32:15 |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9301 Posts |
Posted - 23/08/2017 : 22:36:06
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The answer to your second question of who was Anna Larsdatter Næs is a little harder to answer. A Anna Larsdatter Næs (spelled slightly differently) left Hafslo on Jan 24, 1882 for America but her birth year is listed as 1854 not 1857. See first entry right hand page.
Link
On that same page is listed Brithe Rasmusdatter born 1860 leaving on February 24 also for America.
Perhaps Berthe and family in the 1865 Census, Living on Mobakken and listed as Moe in the Emigration record.
1865
Best fit from Ancestry.com See also the date for her birth or baptism from the Alternative out-miation records.
Birtha Rasmusen
in the Norway, Select Baptisms, 1634-1927
Name: Birtha Rasmusen
Gender: Female
Birth Date: 21 mai 1860 (21 May 1860)
Baptism Date: 24 jun 1860
Baptism Place: Hafslo,Sogn Og Fjordane,Norway
Father: Rasmus Nielsen
Mother: Marthe Johannesdr
FHL Film Number: 278142
Perhaps they are just from the same parish Hafslo and not at all related. |
Edited by - AntonH on 24/08/2017 00:33:57 |
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dtang
Junior member
USA
45 Posts |
Posted - 23/08/2017 : 23:11:38
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Thanks!
(1) The Ancestry transcription is a straight forward summary/documentation of the information I found. Not sure why they obtained the name as "Jena O Jang" for Jens O Tang...maybe I'm reading this wrong.
(2) If I understand correctly, your link (re Anna Larsdatter Næs) is to the "moving out " record for Hafslo parish (1882). If so, I also do not see any record for Jens Olsen Tang leaving in 1882 ?? I assume a person could leave without being recorded in the church records. |
DougT |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9301 Posts |
Posted - 23/08/2017 : 23:24:13
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Looking at the original document on Ancestry.com I could easily see how the name could be transcribed Gena O Jang, The J is written such that the T looks much like a J. Alsn the original document it looks as if the paren includes four people going to Lake Park, Minn. That includes Berthe, Jens, Synneve and Anna.
Also see my add to the post about those leaving Hafslo in 1882. I too did not see either Jens or Synneve on this or adjacent pages Closest being the Jens Olsen leaving on June 7, 1881. However the alternative out-migration gives his birth date as Jan 1, 1860, I found him and he is not the right person. |
Edited by - AntonH on 24/08/2017 00:40:36 |
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dtang
Junior member
USA
45 Posts |
Posted - 24/08/2017 : 00:11:13
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You are correct about the problem of transcribing the name from the original list. I had an advantage, I was looking for "Jens Tang "and "Synneva" so I knew what I was looking for (name, ages, where going etc).... to me this was "Jens O Tang."
In original document Berthe ? Moe is listed alone at # 5186, but Jens, Anna L, & Synneve(sp) are all three listed under #5187. There appears to be no destination noted for Berthe and the paren includes only the three names under #5187. There is a Mo farm in Hafslo, just north of the Tang farm (gnr. 55) where my grandfather,Jens OlsenT ang, was living in 1882 when he emigrated. |
DougT |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9301 Posts |
Posted - 24/08/2017 : 00:15:04
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This alternative record for out-migration gives the birth or baptism date for Anna Larsdatter as March 25, 1854. She might be findable with that information.
Link
Best fit for her from Ancestry.com
Anna Larsen
in the Norway, Select Baptisms, 1634-1927
Name: Anna Larsen
Gender: Female
Birth Date: 25 mar 1854
Baptism Date: 2 apr 1854
Baptism Place: Hafslo,Sogn Og Fjordane,Norway
Father: Lars Endresen
Mother: Clara Sorensdr
FHL Film Number: 278142
Looks like the right one, father Lars Endresen carries the Næs farm name. (Næsset)
Link
#28
Confirmation in 1869
#76
There is this family in the 1865 Norwegian Census, however the wife is different. May be a totally different family.
1865
A second Anna born in 1858, but of course her birth date does not match the one for Anna Larsdatter Næs in the emigration record.
#63
Lars Married Ragnhilde in 1857
#8
This is likely the baptism record for Lars Endresen father of the second Anna Larsdatter.
#39
Endre Larsen age 59 died in 1860 and was using the name Endre Larsen Kalhagehaug.
#14 |
Edited by - AntonH on 25/08/2017 23:16:26 |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9301 Posts |
Posted - 24/08/2017 : 17:01:18
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I am not sure you are interested enough to dig into this but there is a little puzzle about the parents of the one or two Anna Larsdatters born in 1854 and 1857 that revolves around who is the father and mother. I am going to do a little work and see where it goes.
The post for the Anna born in 1854 has as parents r Lars Endresen and Clara Sørensdatter, but all children before Anna have as parents Lars Andersen and Clara Sørensdatter. For example Søren born in 1846. Father is listed as Lars Andersen Næs I do not know if that means there is both a Lars Andersen and a Lars Endresen or if there is a mistake in the record. Here is the baptism for Søren.
#66
And Ole
#94
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Edited by - AntonH on 24/08/2017 22:42:26 |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
Posted - 24/08/2017 : 18:52:05
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| It might be easier to figure how many Clara Sørensdatters there were in Hafslo and elsewhere in the fylke. Hafslo baptisms have been transcribed and indexed at the Digitalarkivet. All but one are to a married couple Lars Anderson and Clara Sorensdatter except one in 1827 to an unmarried couple Anders Lasseson and Klara Sorensdatter. |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9301 Posts |
Posted - 24/08/2017 : 21:44:54
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I have found only one marriage so far for a Clara Sørensatter in Sogn og Fjordane. June 29 1836 to a Lars Andersen.
Link
#18
Father of Clara is Søren Pedersen. Oddly enough a witness at the baptism of Lars Endresen in 1830 was named Søren Pedersen.
Lars Andersen and Clara Sørensdatter had at least five children.
Margethe b 1837, Anders b 1841, Margrethe b 1842, Søren b 1844, and Ole b 1846.
Baptism May 2, 1806
Link
There is a record for a Lars Andersen of Næset i Veitastrand who died April 24, 1858 that fits fairly well for the husband of Clara .
#49
Link |
Edited by - AntonH on 25/08/2017 02:17:00 |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9301 Posts |
Posted - 25/08/2017 : 00:35:45
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Well looking at the baptism records one by one for Lars Andersen and Clara Sørensdatter.
Margrethe b 1837, father is Lars Andersen Næset.
#42
Anders b 1841 father is Lars Andersen Næset
#57
Margrethe b 1842 father is Lars Andersen Næset
#93
Søren shown above as #66 b 1844 father is Lars Andersen Næset
Ole shown above as #94 b 1846 father is Lars Andersen Næset.
And the outlier
Anna shown above as #28 father is Lars Endresen Næset
Working against a mistake in the fathers name is the confirmation record for Anna also lists her father name as Lars Endresen Næset and lists the farm name as well
#76
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Edited by - AntonH on 25/08/2017 00:51:44 |
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dtang
Junior member
USA
45 Posts |
Posted - 25/08/2017 : 15:45:59
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Wow! I didn't think my question about Anna Larsdtr Næs [apparent traveling companion with Jens Olsen and Synneva Tang] would turn out to be so complicated. I never would have been able to sort this all out . I don't want you to have to chase too many leads if Anna is unlikely to be a relative. Still, it is an interesting question as to why, on the emigration record from Bergen, the birth year and age for Anna (1857, 25) agrees with the Anna's age in the passenger list (25). If born in 1854 her age would be abt 29.
Thanks for all the detective work.
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DougT |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9301 Posts |
Posted - 25/08/2017 : 16:25:25
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So far I have not seen any evidence that Anna Larsdatter Næs has any connection with Jens Olsen and Synneva Tang other than that of traveling somewhat together.
But the detective work is all the fun! |
Edited by - AntonH on 25/08/2017 16:26:24 |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9301 Posts |
Posted - 26/08/2017 : 22:42:16
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I do not think that we tried to answer this question for you.
quote:
(Q1) Do records exist that might give information about which ship, passenger list, travel contracts with Allen Line, etc. for the trip from Bergen to Hull to Liverpool? I have assumed he went the usual route …by ship of a feeder line (Wilson line) and then by train to Liverpool. I did find a ship Hero [Hero(2)] of the Wilson line that departed Bergen-Stavanger on 11 March 1882. This is a day later than the 10 March 1882 date given in Digitalarkivet (Source 1), but this 1day difference is not unusual, and seems best bet.
Based on the information in Norway Heritage I think your assumption that the feeder ship was the Hero (2) is correct.
From Norway Heritage
Lnk
This page indicates that the feeder ship for the Peruvian on which was Jens Tang was the Hero (2) |
Edited by - AntonH on 26/08/2017 22:47:05 |
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dtang
Junior member
USA
45 Posts |
Posted - 27/08/2017 : 20:18:51
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Thanks for verifying Hero(2) as the feeder ship. When I begin at Passenger Lists (Main page), I can't navigate to the page in your last link that ties the Hero(2) to the S/S Peruvian (as shown at top =" Corresponding ships
for the S/S Hero (2) journey 1882-03-11 Bergen - Stavanger - Hull'). I'm sure I'm missing something obvious.
Three additional questions. Any answers would address my remaining essential questions about my grandfather's emigration/immigration. Hopefully these are still related to my original post: If you think it more appropriate, I could begin a new post.
(1) I remember (?) reading somewhere that passenger lists for the Wilson line feeder ships do not exit. Is this true?
(2) It is not clear to me just where Jens and Synneva Tang got off the ship (S/S Peruvian) to begin there travels toward Minnesota..... I assume it was Halifax?
(3) I have not been able to locate any border crossing info from Canada into USA
Thanks again for all your help. |
DougT |
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Did I find my grandfather’s arrival in USA (via Ca
