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MarkPeter
Medium member
Australia
98 Posts |
 Posted - 07/02/2019 : 12:38:39
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| lyndal40 thx for you help and research as well. Anymore info you find will be greatly appreciated, thx |
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MarkPeter
Medium member
Australia
98 Posts |
Posted - 07/02/2019 : 13:58:44
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| lyndal40 thx for you help and research as well. Anymore info you find will be greatly appreciated, thx |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9301 Posts |
Posted - 07/02/2019 : 16:50:29
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Mark, I was pleased to see that you mentioned a DNA test. I had very good luck with a DNA test called Y-67 from ftDNA, {link below}and joining the group project "'Norway DNA Norgesprosjektet" through my ftDNA account {link below}.
ftDNA
Norway DNA Norgesprosjektet
I am recommending that you get a test done at ftDNA since they have a working relationship with Norway Project and that makes it easy to get your DNA data into the Norway Project data base .
I am recommending a Y Chromosome test. This tests a number of markers on your Y Chromosome and several variations are available from 25 markers to 111 markers. 67 is about right to get the information you need. A marker is a DNA sequence with a known location on a chromosome that can be used to identify individuals
ftDNA will send you a kit after you order a test through their website. You take a test sample and send it off to them. Be patient it sometimes take a few months. You will be asked to set up a log in page on the ftDNA website so you can access the data. Sooner or later you will be notified that your data is at your log in page. You will be given several bits of information most useful are your Haplogroup and any matches that ftDNA has found in their data base and the Genetic Distance of those matches.
After you have that data you can join Norway Project and you will be given a spot in their data base of about 7000 or so Norwegians based on the results of your markers. You will be asked by Norway Project to list your oldest known fathers line and to upload your family tree. Most important is your fathers line as that is what the Y 67 test is designed to shed light on.
So my experience. I sent off my sample about five or so years ago. Data came back putting me in the R1a haplogroup. Most Norwegians are in one of three haplogroups. The older is I, the other two groups are R1a and R1b. About 30 percent or so in each group.
I also had several matches, however they were of a Genetic Distance of 4 or larger. A GD of 4 means that I match with that person in 63 of the 67 markers. That also means I share a common ancestor with these people but one from about 1000 yers ago. Too long ago to be useful for using in a paper genealogical trial which can only go back about 500 or so years in Norway. Also the matches were English men and so not very useful.
In the Norway Project I was placed in their data base but in a slot where I was the only member since I had no close matches.
However late last year I received the usual notice from ftDNA that I had a new match. Not expecting much I signed into my account and was surprised to find I had a match with a Genetic Distance of 1. Meaning I matched this person on 66 of the 67 markers. Now when I set up my ftDNA account and my Norway Project account I put in for my earliest know ancestor Syvert Torjussen Herefoss, b 1590, Birkenes A-AGD. He is my eighth great grandfather and from Aust-Agder, Norway.
Thus I was pleasantly surprised to find the new match had also the same earliest ancestor. Now in Norway Project I have a mate with nearly the same 67 markers and the same common ancestor.
ftDNA gives you a way to email your matches so my new cousin and I emailed and traced our relationship. Syvert Torjussen had several children including a son Torjus. Torjus had several children including Syvert Torjusson Retterstøl my sixth great grandfather and another son named Jøl (or Ljøl) Torjussen Kylland the sixth great grandfather of my new cousin. So now I had both a paper genealogical route to my ancestor and confirmation of that route through DNA testing.
It took several years but it was worth it. |
Edited by - AntonH on 09/08/2019 03:29:14 |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9301 Posts |
Posted - 07/02/2019 : 22:31:44
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Well Mark you probably do not need any more odd records but here hare two from Ancestry. Are the wives the same in these two records?
Name: Georg Nicolai Peter Andreasen
Gender: Male
Baptism Date: 24 okt 1841 (24 Oct 1841)
Baptism Place: Arendal, Aust-Agder, Norway
Father: Peter Andreas Palmström
Mother: Elisabeth Marie Larsdatter
Name: Georgine Nicoline Peter Andreasdatter
Gender: Female
Baptism Date: 5 apr 1847
Baptism Place: Arendal, Aust-Agder, Norway
Father: Peter Andreas Palmstrøm
Mother: Elise Marie Thomasen
So I went to Ancestry for the records for Arendal and Peter or Peder Palmstrom. Here is the list
Baptism in Arendal
Johan Carl 21 mar 1829 Peter Palmstrom Elisabeth Marie Larsdtr
Gurine Laurethe 9 May 1831 Peter Palmstrom Elisabeth Marie Larsdatter (died in 1838)
Gurine Laurette 15 jul 1839 Peter Andreas Palmstrom Elisabeth Marie
Gurine Laurette 22 mar 1840 Peter Andreas Palmstrøm Elisabet Marie Palmstrøm
Georg Nicolai Peter 24 Oct 1841 Peter Andreas Palmstrom Elisabeth Marie Larsdatter
Elise Mathilde Oct 1844 Peter Andreas Palmstrom Elisabeth Marie
And from a second Peter Palmstrøm ?
Peder Martin 21 aug 1833 Peter Palmstrom Lise Marie Thomassen
Marie Catherine 31 jan 1836 Peder Palmstrøm Elisabeth Marie Thomesen
Georgine Nicoline 5 apr 1847 Peter Andreas Palmstrom Elsie Marie Thomsen
Here is the marriage for Elise Marie Thomsen, looks to me like the one that Tore linked to on page one. Ans the last name also looks to me like Thomsen. And there is only one marriage in Ancestry for Peder Palmstrom.
Name: Elisabeth Marie Thomesen
Gender: Female
Age: 24
Birth Date: 1805
Marriage Date: 22 apr 1829
Marriage Place: Den Norske Kirke, Arendal, Aust-Agder, Norway
Spouse: Peder Palmstrom
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Edited by - AntonH on 07/02/2019 23:52:10 |
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MarkPeter
Medium member
Australia
98 Posts |
Posted - 07/02/2019 : 22:56:41
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| I don’t think they are, but maybe he married twice. |
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MarkPeter
Medium member
Australia
98 Posts |
Posted - 07/02/2019 : 23:06:17
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Hi ToreL. I can’t seem to open the link to this. Where can I go to see this info please? Thx Mark
There is a record saying he was Swedish. First, note that he was a snekkersvend (journeyman carpenter) in the 1801 census as well as at the wedding. Now, Kristiansand Borgerrulle on page 206 records that on December 19th 1808 Johan Peter Palmstrøm, born in Sweden, became a master carpenter in Kristiansand.
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MarkPeter
Medium member
Australia
98 Posts |
Posted - 07/02/2019 : 23:12:47
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Why are the 2 Palmstroms different lyndal40?
In regards to the character above and thru the letter O.
Palmström
Palmstrøm |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9301 Posts |
Posted - 07/02/2019 : 23:16:08
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Palmstrøm Norwegian/Danish Alphabet
Palmström Swedish Alpahbet |
Edited by - AntonH on 07/02/2019 23:16:36 |
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MarkPeter
Medium member
Australia
98 Posts |
Posted - 07/02/2019 : 23:28:51
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| Ok, so which Palmstrom do I use for my family tree research? Thx |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9301 Posts |
Posted - 07/02/2019 : 23:36:02
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Here is Elise Marie using the last name Palmstrøm in the 1865 Census living in a part of Arendal called Tyholmen. Husband is dead as she is listed as e ie enke or widow.
1865
Based on the chidden in the home in 1865, I would say there is only one marriage and one wife. Why the names Thomsen and Larsdatter is a mystery
It may be only a coincidence but Lorentz Palmstrøm is also living in that secotion of Arendal in 1865 as well.
1865 Lorentz
Also I found an additional child to add to the above list
Name: Peter Martin Pedersen
Gender: Male
Birth Date: 21 aug 1833
Baptism Date: 8 sep 1833
Baptism Place: Arendal,Aust-Agder,Norway
Father: Peter Palmstrom
Mother: Lise Marie Thommesen |
Edited by - AntonH on 07/02/2019 23:50:15 |
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MarkPeter
Medium member
Australia
98 Posts |
Posted - 07/02/2019 : 23:52:44
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| Ok, so is Lorentz a cousin or another child of Marie Larsdatter and Peter Andreas Palmstrom? |
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ToreL
Advanced member
Norway
842 Posts |
Posted - 07/02/2019 : 23:54:33
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It is late for me here, so just a quick answer from my phone: You list up a lot of baptisms, Anton, and from a quick glance they look fine to me. Why do you think these are not all full siblings? I have noticed that Elisabeth Marie sometimes get her name shortened to Elise Marie, which may have been the version for everyday use. Interestingly, at her burial in 1901 one can see that the priest originally just wrote Elise Marie, but then later cramped in the missing "beth". I have seen a member tree on Ancestry, though, with a child born as late ad 1859, but here someone has confused Peter Andreas with his son Peter Martin, so this was a grandchild.
Regarding the borgerbok, Mark, I don't know what the problem may be, I don't think there are any region issues here. Perhaps it is in a format that your device can't read. Have you tried switching to a computer with a different setup? |
Edited by - ToreL on 08/02/2019 14:38:08 |
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MarkPeter
Medium member
Australia
98 Posts |
Posted - 07/02/2019 : 23:59:06
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| Ok thx ToreL, can’t again soon I hope, regards Mark |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9301 Posts |
Posted - 08/02/2019 : 00:05:54
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Here is an explanation for the issue with the last name of Elisabeth Marie. Her father is named Lars Thomsen. The usual practice would be for her to be called Elisabeth Marie (or some variation of that name) Larsdatter. However in some cases that process is not followed and that seems to be the case here.
Name: Elisabeth Marie Larsen
Gender: Female
Birth Date: 28 mar 1808
Baptism Date: 5 apr 1808
Baptism Place: Arendal,Aust-Agder,Norway
Father: Lars Thomasen
Mother: Gunvor Pedersdr
FHL Film Number: 123481 |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9301 Posts |
Posted - 08/02/2019 : 00:08:34
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quote:
Ok, so is Lorentz a cousin or another child of Marie Larsdatter and Peter Andreas Palmstrom?
Well a little early to tell but not likely the son of Peter Andreas Palmstrøm.
The Palmstrøm website gives his parents as
Andreas Palmström and Kristina Larsdotter
Norske del av Palmstrøm-familienwww.palmstrom.netKragerø-grenen1NORSKE PALMSTRØM-FAMILIEN Kragerø-grenen#36 Lorenz Palmströmog familieLorenz ble født17 mars 1828i Kville, Bohuslen, og døde 11 april 1907. Snekker. Gift1858med #37 Severine MarieHansdatter, født30 juni 1833, død 20 mars 1907. Lorenz foreldre:#33 Andreas Palmström og #34 Kristina Larsdotter.Barn
Rough translation is
The Norwegian part of Palmstrom family of the Kragerø (Telemark) branch is Lorenz Palmstrom and family. Lorenz was born 17 March 1828 in Kville Bohuslen, Sweden and died 11 April 1907. He wa a carpenter and married Severin Marie Hansatter who was born 30 June, 1833. and died 20 March 1907. The Parents of Lorenz are Andreas Palmstrom and Kristina Larsotter. |
Edited by - AntonH on 08/02/2019 00:17:25 |
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Topic |
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Peterson/Palmstrom Family Tree Help Needed Please
