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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
 Posted - 26/03/2019 : 13:13:03
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One of the children in the 1900 family Gemelia's birtth record transcribed:
Name Gemilia Dale
Event Type Birth
Event Date 02 Oct 1898
Event Place Emmetsburg, Palo Alto, Iowa, United States
Gender Female
Father's Name Ole Dale
Mother's Name Helga Bergland
Citing this Record
"Iowa, County Births, 1880-1935," database, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XVDH-DVQ : 11 March 2018), Ole Dale in entry for Gemilia Dale, 02 Oct 1898; citing Emmetsburg, Palo Alto, Iowa, United States; county district courts, Iowa; FHL microfilm 1,255,970.
Family moves to Becker county, Minnesota by 1905 and were there through at least 1930 census:
Ole Dale Head M 63 Norway
Oscar Dale Son M 34 Iowa
Hattie Dale Daughter F 29 Iowa
Citing this Record
"United States Census, 1930," database with images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X3CG-6D4 : accessed 26 March 2019), Ole Dale, Cormorant, Becker, Minnesota, United States; citing enumeration district (ED) ED 8, sheet 2B, line 61, family 39, NARA microfilm publication T626 (Washington D.C.: National Archives and Records Administration, 2002), roll 1079; FHL microfilm 2,340,814.
Ole dies there:
Name Ole Dale
Event Type Death
Event Date 11 Jun 1933
Event Place Becker, Minnesota
Record Number 646136
Certificate Number 000373
Certificate Year 1933
File Name 000373
Affiliate Batch Identifier NF306DO
Citing this Record
"Minnesota Death Index, 1908-2002," database, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:V4ZV-SFM : 4 December 2014), Ole Dale, 11 Jun 1933; from "Minnesota Death Index, 1908-2002," database, Ancestry (http://www.ancestry.com : 2001); citing Becker, Minnesota, record 646136, certificate number 000373, Minnesota Department of Health, Minneapolis.
Here in FAG assigned a 6 Nov 1865 birthdate:
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/185867788/ole-dale
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Edited by - jkmarler on 26/03/2019 14:16:49 |
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knutselsjord
Starting member
Norway
23 Posts |
Posted - 26/03/2019 : 13:24:10
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Thanks a lot for you efforts! Sorry for being so awkward here, lads, but we need see a reason for these Knutes taking their wives' surnames. Normally it would be the other way round, right? Or am I missing out on something?
kS |
Knut Selsjord |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
Posted - 26/03/2019 : 14:05:57
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Frankly found virtually no uses of the farm name Selsjord in the records I've looked unless the name was so garbled that search engine methods couldn't bridge the gap to find:
City Directory database at HeritageQuest (1 only a female domestic named Carrie Selsjord in Seattle in 1905)
Government Land Records, Bureau of Land Management Land Patents database= 0
Findagrave: 0 of 170 million records
Chronicling America 14 million pages
Familysearch.org 2 billion records
Ancestry 10 billion records + 108 Seljord
Genealogybank.com 2 mentions (neither were Ole or Knut) in millions of pages
No Ole nor Knut Selsjord in the original 125,000 Rowberg File entries
The two candidates from the 1900 US Federal census were found by searching only on the given first names Ole and Knut, with birth month and year and migration year from your earlier post.
How a Norwegian might get a name in America: from a familiar farm name, from their patronymic name, from their father's patronymic name, from a name assumed from some other source (which could be a wife's surname but not the only thing), a name abbreviated from a familiar farm name or place, etc. Each person has an unique approach to their name. (Recently, for instance, at this site, we had a man known in Norway as Peder Evensen Hagastuen, Marigaardeie and over here he went by P.E. Simon --still haven't figured out where the Simon came in--it wasn't from his wife's name!)
So it looks to me, exact searching for the two men won't find them, otherwise either Ole Dale or Knut Berg could and would be right. Knut Larson Berg is likely not right, Ole Dale can't yet be eliminatedis likely not right. Anton's candidate, in spite of the variance on migration date might be the best yet. |
Edited by - jkmarler on 22/04/2019 12:32:26 |
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knutselsjord
Starting member
Norway
23 Posts |
Posted - 26/03/2019 : 14:23:54
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| This overview is excelent! Seems absolutely right. How about trying to get in touch with possible descendants of Ole Dale and Knut Berg, just to ask if anyone know , say, where these people came from i Norway. Would clear up a lot! Any tips how to do that? knS |
Knut Selsjord |
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knutselsjord
Starting member
Norway
23 Posts |
Posted - 26/03/2019 : 14:34:14
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Leaves us with Knut Berg, then?
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Knut Selsjord |
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knutselsjord
Starting member
Norway
23 Posts |
Posted - 26/03/2019 : 14:43:09
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| "Knut S. Berg" . S for Selsjord? His daughter is named Marie, which also rhymes: My Knut's mum was Marit, the rule was naming first girl child after her grandma on fathers side. |
Knut Selsjord |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
Posted - 26/03/2019 : 15:55:36
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Other ways to find out about Ole Dale and Knut Berg would be to search in Ancestry in the ELCA (Evangelical Lutheran Church Association includes a lot of Norwegian Lutheran church records in US) databases if you have Ancestry membership. These pastoral acts like baptisms, confirmations, marriages and funerals, sometimes, not always, include parishes of origin in confirmations (for Marie Berg, target Knut's daughter was born in Norway this might show something and she lived to at least age 16 so most likely in Goodhue county, Minnesota), marriage record between Ole Dale and Helen or Helga or Ellen Bergland might also tell where they were from in Norway, and so on.
Newspaper obituaries for Ole Dale, Mrs. Ole Dale, Knut Larson Berg and Anne Berg and Marie Berg might also tell where they were from in Norway.
But they both seem less likely than previously based on further development of their records. |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
Posted - 26/03/2019 : 16:03:36
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quote:
Originally posted by knutselsjord
"Knut S. Berg" . S for Selsjord? His daughter is named Marie, which also rhymes: My Knut's mum was Marit, the rule was naming first girl child after her grandma on fathers side.
Except that I'm fairly certain the couple in the 1895 census in Goodhue county is most likely them and they are using the name Larson. But you see how even a little clue like a middle initial might be important.
Definitely not the right Knut, here in the emigrants database at digitalarkivet:
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/8/pe00000000124131
Anne and the little girl Marie also coming from Størdalen:
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/8/pe00000000125435
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/8/pe00000000125436
Are there any other relatives in US that the boys could have come to? Aunts, uncles, cousins?
Are you certain that all the records in Norway have been exploited? The boys' father Jacob Olsen Selsjord died in 1915, was there a dødfallsprotokol for him or Marit (who died before him)? Sometimes those records tell where in America potential legatees are living. |
Edited by - jkmarler on 27/03/2019 00:42:39 |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
Posted - 27/03/2019 : 08:18:48
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Here is an Ole Jacobson b 1866 Norway in 1895 Minnesota state census in Lyon county, 8 years a resident of the state:
image: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-DB59-WTK?i=5&cc=1503031
Name Ole Jacobson
Event Place Shelburne township, Lyon, Minnesota
Age 29y
Birth Year (Estimated) 1866
Birthplace Norway
Race (Original) W
Gender Male
Citing this Record
"Minnesota State Census, 1895," database with images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MQDX-PXS : 3 April 2016), Ole Jacobson, Shelburne township, Lyon, Minnesota; citing p. 6, line 3, State Library and Records Service, St.Paul; FHL microfilm 565,787.
From MOMS:
LYON D-121 01/14/1898 JACOBSON, OLE BENSON, LAURA
1900 census Lyon county, same guy? don't know:
Name Ole Jacobson
Event Type Census
Event Year 1900
Event Place Fairview & Vallers Townships, Lyon, Minnesota, United States
Gender Male
Age 35
Marital Status Married
Race White
Race W
Relationship to Head of Household Head
Relationship to Head of Household Head
Years Married 2
Birth Date May 1865
Birthplace Norway
Marriage Year (Estimated) 1898
Immigration Year 1881
Father's Birthplace Norway
Mother's Birthplace Norway
Household ole Sex Age Birthplace
Ole Jacobson Head M 35 Norway
Laura Jacobson Wife F 25 Norway
Melven Jacobson Son M 2 Minnesota
Thomas Jacobson Brother M 35 Norway
George Brown Servant M 15 Minnesota
Citing this Record
"United States Census, 1900," database with images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M9ST-17G : accessed 27 March 2019), Ole Jacobson, Fairview & Vallers Townships, Lyon, Minnesota, United States; citing enumeration district (ED) 151, sheet 9A, family 142, NARA microfilm publication T623 (Washington, D.C.: National Archives and Records Administration, 1972.); FHL microfilm 1,240,773.
He and Thomas must have been near twins....
But Thomas was probably the same Thorvald Jakobson who witnessed the wedding:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939K-R5JM-J?i=553&cc=1803974
Ole Jacobson here in FAG assigned birthdate of 3 May 1864:
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/66630864/ole-jacobson
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Edited by - jkmarler on 22/04/2019 12:09:54 |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
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knutselsjord
Starting member
Norway
23 Posts |
Posted - 27/03/2019 : 14:31:54
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| Hi, Lyon-Ole is not our man. He hever had a brother named remotely like Thomas. Their Mother Marit died in May, 1911. Both she and Jakob is registrede dead in the lokal church protocols. Kari Selsjord is found in Vancouver in the Canadian census 1900. She also lived for a short spell i Seattle. She returned from the us in 1906 but she had no knowledge aboutt her brothers. The two poys kept up contact with home up until 1898 - 99 -but thereafter no trace. Thats why they started the search & legal process later in the 30-ies when their economic heritage was to be made up. They had no other relattives in the us. I have allready mentioned Mr. Theodore Hansen of Benson Minn, This was the place which Ole gave as his destination in America, ant Mr Hansen, a successful businessman, is the only person from Ole's home county we know of who resided there. |
Knut Selsjord |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
Posted - 27/03/2019 : 17:23:26
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Agreed about the Lyon county Ole.
Name Carrie Selsjord
Event Type Census
Event Date 31 Mar 1901
Event Place Burrard, British Columbia, Canada
Gender Female
Age 27
Marital Status Single
Nationality Norwegian
Ethnicity Norwegian
Religion Lutheran
Relationship to Head of Household Domestic
Birth Year (Estimated) 1874
Birthplace Norway
Immigration Year 1898
Page 11
Household Role Sex Age Birthplace
Willa Kip Wife F 24 USA
George J Wonder Lodger M 34 Ontario
Hester M Kite Lady-Help F 44 England
Carrie Selsjord Domestic F 27 Norway
Citing this Record
"Canada Census, 1901," database with images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KHVN-1MR : 18 March 2018), Carrie Selsjord in household of Willa Kip, Burrard, British Columbia, Canada; citing p. 11, Library and Archives of Canada, Ottawa.
Probably Kari's trip from Britain to Canada:
Name Kari Silsford
Arrival Date 12 Jul 1896
Arrival Port Quebec, England
Age 23
Birth Year (Estimated) 1873
Gender Female
Race Norwegian
Last Place of Residence Galdbrandod
Departure Port Liverpool, England
Ship Name Sardinian
Citing this Record
"United States Border Crossings from Canada to United States, 1895-1956," database, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XL5G-SMR : 27 November 2014), Kari Silsford, 12 Jul 1896; from "Border Crossings: From Canada to U.S., 1895-1954," database and images, Ancestry (http://www.ancestry.com : 2010); citing Ship Sardinian, arrival port Quebec, England, line 15, NARA microfilm publication M1464, Records of the Immigration and Naturalization Service, RG 85, (Washington D.C.: National Archives and Records Administration, n.d.), roll 1.
Here is Kari's coming into US from Canada says she is going to a cousin Frank C Astrie? in Halstad, Minnesota:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-99D9-C931-L?i=474&cc=2185163
Here is Ronnaug wife of a Frank Asche in Halstad in 1900 census:
Name Rannaug Asche
Event Type Census
Event Year 1900
Event Place Halstad Township Halstad village, Norman, Minnesota, United States
Gender Female
Age 42
Marital Status Married
Race White
Race W
Relationship to Head of Household Wife
Relationship to Head of Household Wife
Number of Living Children 3
Years Married 14
Birth Date May 1858
Birthplace Norway
Marriage Year (Estimated) 1886
Immigration Year 1881
Father's Birthplace Norway
Mother's Birthplace Norway
Mother of how many children 3
Household Role Sex Age Birthplace
Frank Asche Head M 44 Pennsylvania
Rannaug Asche Wife F 42 Norway
Charley Asche Son M 15 Minnesota
Maggie Asche Daughter F 12 Minnesota
Effie Asche Daughter F 6 Minnesota
Citing this Record
"United States Census, 1900," database with images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M93Q-BLS : accessed 27 March 2019), Rannaug Asche in household of Frank Asche, Halstad Township Halstad village, Norman, Minnesota, United States; citing enumeration district (ED) 125, sheet 12A, family 200, NARA microfilm publication T623 (Washington, D.C.: National Archives and Records Administration, 1972.); FHL microfilm 1,240,778.
Are these parent names anyone you know?
Name Rena Ascher
Gender Female
Death Date 23 Jul 1946
Death Place Halstad, Norman, Minnesota
Age 87
Birth Date 1859
Marital Status Married
Spouse's Name Frank Ascher
Father's Name Hans E. Kollen
Mother's Name Maret Aanodt
Citing this Record
"Minnesota Deaths and Burials, 1835-1990," database, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FD65-GKW : 10 March 2018), Frank Ascher in entry for Rena Ascher, 23 Jul 1946; citing Halstad, Norman, Minnesota, reference p 10119; FHL microfilm 2,139,187.
Her FAG gives her birth place as Nordre Fron:
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/102186008
Norman County Obituary index:
Ascher, Charles 6, 188
Ascher, Margaret H. 6, 336, 286
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Edited by - jkmarler on 28/03/2019 01:02:36 |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
Posted - 27/03/2019 : 17:51:56
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A Knut Jacobson b abt 1868 d 1944 in San Francisco:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33S7-95NP-GF7?i=78&cc=1402856
Name Knudt Jacobsen
Event Type Death
Event Date 24 Jan 1944
Event Place San Francisco, San Francisco, California, United States
Gender Male
Age 76
Race White
Birth Year (Estimated) 1868
Page 219
Citing this Record
"California, San Francisco County Records, 1824-1997," database with images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QKD4-YHPX : 5 August 2017), Knudt Jacobsen, 24 Jan 1944; citing Death, San Francisco, San Francisco, California, United States, San Francisco Public Library, California; FamilySearch digital folder 004881779.
Here in the 1940 census b about 1870 occupation: author:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-89MT-D7VK?cc=2000219
John C Hurley Head M 74 California
Annie F Hurley Wife F 72 Canada
Knud T Jacobsen Lodger M 70 Norway
Citing this Record
"United States Census, 1940," database with images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:K98L-L69 : 15 March 2018), Knud T Jacobsen in household of John C Hurley, Assembly District 22, San Francisco, San Francisco City, San Francisco, California, United States; citing enumeration district (ED) 38-209, sheet 1A, line 30, family 17, Sixteenth Census of the United States, 1940, NARA digital publication T627. Records of the Bureau of the Census, 1790 - 2007, RG 29. Washington, D.C.: National Archives and Records Administration, 2012, roll 306.
From Detroit TimesTuesday, Oct 26, 1943 Detroit, MI Page: 11 Col 3 "Youths Protest Adult Rivals:
"Knudt Jacobsen writes from San Francisco with the opinion that the juvenile crime problem stems directly from a drifting away from religion in the home. 'Where I came from 60 years ago,' Jacobsen says 'there were no jails and no police because people knew the Book of God by heart...."
It would be strange thing if this man whose occupation is variously given as "writer" and "author" forgot to write home for 40 years! |
Edited by - jkmarler on 27/03/2019 18:30:29 |
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knutselsjord
Starting member
Norway
23 Posts |
Posted - 27/03/2019 : 20:48:38
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| I really appreciate your last remark about Knut T in Cali. Most likely not our man. Rina Asche I know : Originally Rønnaug (Rønnog) Hansdatter , she is Marit s (Ole And Knut and Karit's mother) cousin on her mothers side. Emigrated and married the german Mr. Asche , becoming Rina, residing in the 90ies in Halstad. |
Knut Selsjord |
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knutselsjord
Starting member
Norway
23 Posts |
Posted - 27/03/2019 : 20:56:46
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| In norwegian records Rønnaugs fatherrs name: Hans Kolloen, born 1815 , mother Marit Aamot |
Knut Selsjord |
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Catalonia passenger list
