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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
 Posted - 13/06/2020 : 23:22:04
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| But no Karl the son appeared in the clerical surveys found for the blended families of Carl Johanneson Trast, which could mean Karl the son was illegitimate or elsewhere or whatever. |
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ToreL
Advanced member
Norway
842 Posts |
Posted - 13/06/2020 : 23:36:21
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It has been a facinating excursion into Swedish genealogy, but is it based om anything else than an hypothesis that the fadder Oscar Karlsen might be the brother of Karl Karlsen, since both had a father named Karl? Is there any other indication that Amandus' father came from Sweden?
Karl was a common mame at the time (More than one in thirty of the males in the 1900 Norwegian census were named Karl or Carl) and if I am not mistaken, we have seen no trace of any Karl among the children of Karl Trast, not even in the household list from 1876-1880, when Amandus' father was still a pre-teenage child.
About the name Calle/Kalle: This is an endearment form of Carl/Karl, exactly like Bill vs William, Jack vs John etc. |
Edited by - ToreL on 14/06/2020 00:02:39 |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9301 Posts |
Posted - 14/06/2020 : 00:12:52
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quote:
t has been a facinating excursion into Swedish genealogy, but is it bases om anything else than an hypothesis that the fadder Oscar Karlsen might be the brother of Karl Karlsen, since both had a father named Karl?
That about sums it up Tore. That is why we keep looking.
In the baptism record for second child Orlanda there is a fadder Emma Karlsen. Here is a likely candidate in the 1891 Census. She is listed as from Tanum Sogn ved Fjælbakka Sverige.
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/census/person/pf01052858000579
A candidate but from Kville not Tanum.
Emma Olsson
in the Sweden, Indexed Birth Records, 1859-1947
Name: Emma
[Emma Olsson]
[Emma Carlsdotter]
Gender: Kvinna (Female)
Birth Date: 17 jan 1869
Birth Place: Kville , Göteborg och Bohus (Västra Götaland), Sverige (Sweden)
Father: Carl Olsson
Mother: Anna Andersdotter
Page Number: 111
Volume: C:1
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Edited by - AntonH on 14/06/2020 00:54:28 |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
Posted - 14/06/2020 : 03:39:59
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The sister's husband Alfred Andersen was also from Tanum:
#3
SAK, Barbu sokneprestkontor, F/Fa/L0003: Parish register (official) no. A 3, 1883-1898, p. 36
Quick link: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20060728010037
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ToreL
Advanced member
Norway
842 Posts |
Posted - 14/06/2020 : 13:48:54
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| One piece of info I don't think has been explored. According to Anandus' baptism record, his father lived in Strømsbuveien which is a street in Barbu/Arendal. (It looks like it extended through both Arendal and Barbu before these municipalities were merged in 1902.) No match appears in the 1900 census, which -- if the info is correct -- would mean that he moved in between 1900 and 1902. Some Norwegian cities had address books made at the time, but so far I haven't seen one for Arendal from before 1912. |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
Posted - 14/06/2020 : 14:03:24
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Local talent Karl Karlsens marrying in Barbu:
#17 25 Oct 1894 (b 1859)
SAK, Barbu sokneprestkontor, F/Fa/L0003: Parish register (official) no. A 3, 1883-1898, p. 49
Quick link: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20060728010050
#39 17 Dec 1892 (b 1868)
SAK, Barbu sokneprestkontor, F/Fa/L0003: Parish register (official) no. A 3, 1883-1898, p. 46
Quick link: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20060728010047
__________________________________________________
#14 can't be eliminated on the basis of no patronymic name given:
SAK, Barbu sokneprestkontor, F/Fa/L0003: Parish register (official) no. A 3, 1883-1898, p. 51
Quick link: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20060728010052
#27 Right patronymic but not first name:
SAK, Barbu sokneprestkontor, F/Fa/L0003: Parish register (official) no. A 3, 1883-1898, p. 45
Quick link: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20060728010046
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Kpkarlsen
Starting member
USA
16 Posts |
Posted - 14/06/2020 : 14:32:34
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quote:
Originally posted by ToreL
It has been a facinating excursion into Swedish genealogy, but is it based om anything else than an hypothesis that the fadder Oscar Karlsen might be the brother of Karl Karlsen, since both had a father named Karl? Is there any other indication that Amandus' father came from Sweden?
The only indicators that Amandus’ father’s name was Karl Karlsen is that my last name is Karlsen and the birth record. But since the birth was announced to the church by the aunt months after the birth as illegitimate, she may not know all the details. That she mentioned Karl was married, Oskar Karlsen and Stromsbuveien gave me hope that her details were correct.
My guess is that Amalie Berglund was not a deeply religious woman since I’ve seen no indications that either of her known children were confirmed and she had two out of wedlock children. So church records may be scant on her kids, including the 1910 census. |
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ToreL
Advanced member
Norway
842 Posts |
Posted - 14/06/2020 : 15:35:33
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quote:
Originally posted by jkmarler
Local talent Karl Karlsens marrying in Barbu:
#39 17 Dec 1892 (b 1868)
SAK, Barbu sokneprestkontor, F/Fa/L0003: Parish register (official) no. A 3, 1883-1898, p. 46
Quick link: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20060728010047
The quy above looks like the best match, and he lived in the Strømsbu area in 1891:
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/census/person/pf01052886000773
(Why is it that all these Swedes pop up, even when we don't look for them?)
In the 1900 census he is identified by his second proper name Fredrik, (note e.g. match with wife and father) and the residence is given as Svinodden, which is in Strømsbu but not adjacent to Strømsbuveien. |
Edited by - ToreL on 14/06/2020 15:49:34 |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9301 Posts |
Posted - 14/06/2020 : 15:53:45
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Well at least Karl Ros has lots of hits in Ancestry.com
Karl Ros
in the 1900 Norway Census
Name: Karl Ros
Gender: mann (Male)
Birth Date: 1831
Birth Place: Sverige
Street address: Svinodden 0008
Residence Year: 1900
Residence Place: Barbu, Aust-Agder, Norge (Norway)
Census Place: Barbu, Aust-Agder, Norge
Relation to Head: Husfar (Head)
Enumeration District: 003
Farm Number: 2
Residential Status: Bosat
House Number: 2
Line Number: 8
Household Members:
Name Relation to Head
Karl Ros Husfar (Head)
Johanna Ros hastru (Wife)
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/census/person/pf01037215002020
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Edited by - AntonH on 14/06/2020 16:03:15 |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9301 Posts |
Posted - 14/06/2020 : 15:56:23
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Carl Ros
in the 1910 Norway Census
Name: Carl Ros
Gender: Mann (Male)
Marital status: Gift (Married)
Birth Date: 23 jan 1831
Birth Place: Sverige (Sweden)
Apartment: Etasje 1 Leilighetsnummer 01
Residence Place: Arendal, Aust-Agder, Norge (Norway)
Assumed Place of Living: Amerika
Relation to Head: Husfar (Head)
Settled or Nomadic: f
Counting District: Strømsbu Kreds 60
Counting District Number: 0060
Enumeration District Number: 009
Household Members:
Name Relation to Head
Carl Ros Husfar (Head)
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/census/person/pf01036543005836
America ?
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/view/8/pe00000000649852
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Edited by - AntonH on 14/06/2020 16:07:37 |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9301 Posts |
Posted - 14/06/2020 : 16:00:17
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From Mo, Göteborgs och Bohus, that has some promise. Daughter named Emilia (is that the same as the Emma in second unwed child baptism record)
Name: Karl Ros
Gender: Man (Male)
Birth Date: jan 1831
Departure Date: 28 jul 1893
Departure Place: Mo, Göteborgs och Bohus
Arrival Place: Norge (Norway)
Occupation or Relation: Afsked. Sold.
Marital status: Married
Notes: Travels with family
Page: 22
Original Page: 182
Source: Mo Hfl 1891-1899
Household Members:
Name
Emilia Justina Karlsdotter
Karl Ros
Johanna Kristina Eriksdotter
Name: Emilia Justina Karlsdotter
Gender: Kvinna (Female)
Birth Date: 26 feb 1864
Departure Date: 28 jul 1893
Departure Place: Mo, Göteborgs och Bohus
Arrival Place: Norge (Norway)
Occupation or Relation: Hdr.
Marital status: Unmarried (Single)
Notes: Travels with family
Page: 23
Original Page: 182
Source: Mo Hfl 1891-1899
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/census/person/pf01052886000773 |
Edited by - AntonH on 14/06/2020 16:11:44 |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9301 Posts |
Posted - 14/06/2020 : 16:17:45
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Baptism for the daughter
Emilie Justina Ros
in the Sweden, Indexed Birth Records, 1859-1947
Name: Emilie Justina
[Emilie Justina Ros]
[Emilie Justina Carlsdotter]
Gender: Kvinna (Female)
Birth Date: 6 feb 1864
Birth Place: MO, Göteborg och Bohus (Västra Götaland), Sverige (Sweden)
Father: Carl Ros
Mother: Johanna Ågren
Volume: 155
Name: Emelie Justina Carlsson
[Emelie Justina Ros]
Gender: Female
Baptism Date: 14 feb 1864
Baptism Place: MO,Goteborg Och Bohus,Sweden
Father: Carl Ros
Mother: Johanna Agren
FHL Film Number: 518524 |
Edited by - AntonH on 14/06/2020 16:19:43 |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
Posted - 14/06/2020 : 16:20:17
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quote:
Originally posted by ToreL
quote:
Originally posted by jkmarler
Local talent Karl Karlsens marrying in Barbu:
#39 17 Dec 1892 (b 1868)
SAK, Barbu sokneprestkontor, F/Fa/L0003: Parish register (official) no. A 3, 1883-1898, p. 46
Quick link: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20060728010047
The quy above looks like the best match, and he lived in the Strømsbu area in 1891:
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/census/person/pf01052886000773
(Why is it that all these Swedes pop up, even when we don't look for them?)
In the 1900 census he is identified by his second proper name Fredrik, (note e.g. match with wife and father) and the residence is given as Svinodden, which is in Strømsbu but not adjacent to Strømsbuveien.
The parents' arrival in Barbu are in the inflyttedes of Barbu.
#9-11 left hand page:
SAK, Barbu sokneprestkontor, F/Fa/L0003: Parish register (official) no. A 3, 1883-1898, p. 160
Quick link: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20060728010160
sailor Karl Fredrik Ross as a father #13 boys half of page living at Smidalen:
SAK, Barbu sokneprestkontor, F/Fa/L0002: Parish register (official) no. A 2, 1883-1898, p. 140
Quick link: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20060727120413
sailor Karl Fredrik Ross living at Smedidalen #17 boys half of page
SAK, Barbu sokneprestkontor, F/Fa/L0002: Parish register (official) no. A 2, 1883-1898, p. 164
Quick link: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20060727120437
sawmill worker Fredrik Ross living at Svinodden #52 boys half of page:
SAK, Barbu sokneprestkontor, F/Fa/L0005: Parish register (official) no. A 5, 1899-1909, p. 18
Quick link: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20051220010600
sawmill worker Karl Fredrik Roos living at Svinodden #57 girls half of page
SAK, Barbu sokneprestkontor, F/Fa/L0005: Parish register (official) no. A 5, 1899-1909, p. 28
Quick link: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20051220010610
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Edited by - jkmarler on 14/06/2020 20:40:38 |
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ToreL
Advanced member
Norway
842 Posts |
Posted - 14/06/2020 : 21:10:47
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The address "Smedidalen" is called Smidjedalen and Smedjedalen in the 1900 census. (#28 & #29.) I haven't found it on a map, but judging from its position in the list it should be in the Strømsbu area.
On a current map, Strømsbuveien ends in a big roundabout ca. 300 m north of where Svinodden starts, but that may have been different in 1902. It is not impossible that at the time their dwelling at Svinodden could be described a house along Strømsbuveien. So far I haven't found a sufficiently detailed map from the time. |
Edited by - ToreL on 14/06/2020 21:24:03 |
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Tawdry Mystery Needs Investigators
