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halvelm1
Medium member
USA
90 Posts |
 Posted - 04/11/2021 : 17:53:52
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Two examples below seem unusual for marriage records, but are commonly found in the 1744-1755 (0604Q) and similar Kongsberg parish books. Can anyone explain the notation "Sol:" before the man's name following the brides'? In both cases I believe the man listed is the deceased first husband. Does "Pens" mean pensioner?; why add that info if the man is dead? Why no Enke title for brides'? Boel Marie should be Isaacsdatter, but looks like something else to me.
Moller farm is followed by (v. Backe) I assume this indicates farm is in another parish, in this case, Backe or Bakke?
Is has been very hard to find Kongsberg farms on modern maps. I did find Hassels, but it seems rather far from the city. Does anyone know if a period map exists of Kongsberg that would show farms or named living places of miners.
I know there are some good books on the mines and miners, but when I last checked none have been available in English. I have always sought a map showing Skyde-banen (shooting range), believing "Jager" or "Jagers" was on the grounds. I did find Sandsvaer-Moen on an old map, near the river, west of the city. This corrected my assumption that it meant Moen farm in Sandsvaer parish.
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20070316610562 -Boel Marie
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20070316610561 -Martha Nielsdatter
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Larry H |
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ToreL
Advanced member
Norway
842 Posts |
Posted - 04/11/2021 : 21:32:51
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| Many questions here, I hope it is OK to take a few at a time. The Sol that you read between the bride and the subsequent person is probably Sal, an abbreviation for Salig, i.e., blessed, signifying that the person whose name follows this designation is deceased. The way it is used here, I would say you are right in assuming that this person was the bride's previous, now deceased husband. Adding a title of widow before the bride's name would then be redundant. |
Edited by - ToreL on 04/11/2021 22:41:16 |
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ToreL
Advanced member
Norway
842 Posts |
Posted - 04/11/2021 : 23:38:52
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Jæger is not a farm name; used as a surname I would say it is derived from an occupation title. Jeger (old spelling Jæger) means hunter, so it would be exactly like the English surname Hunter. The same goes for Møller, which corresponds to Miller.
Surnames derived from occupations were not unheard of in Norway, and is found more often in cities than in rural areas.
An aside: The material transcribed by familysearch etc. that was recently incorporated into the database at Digitalarkivet, is riddled with errors. One reason is that that many of the transcribers (not being Norwegians) had a hard time distinguishing names of domiciles from proper family names, entering names like Vogt in the domicile field. Vogt is an imported, German surname derived from the German name for a bailiff. |
Edited by - ToreL on 05/11/2021 20:37:21 |
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ToreL
Advanced member
Norway
842 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2021 : 00:07:42
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| Did you enter the right page containing Martha Nielsdatter? In any case, it would be helpful if you would indicate where to look on the page. |
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ToreL
Advanced member
Norway
842 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2021 : 00:28:47
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| Here (second, left) is Boel Marie's marriage to Niels Andersen Jæger in 1747. (By the way, I think it's quite possible to read her patronymic in the 1754 marriage as Isaachsdtr.) Searching for Niels Andersøn Jæger at Digitalarkivet turns up a confirmation record just a few years before that. If this is also the same man, it is very hard to understand the 1754 Pens. entry to mean pensioner. What ielse it could mean, I don't know, though. |
Edited by - ToreL on 05/11/2021 00:55:30 |
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ToreL
Advanced member
Norway
842 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2021 : 00:54:37
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If nothing more local is available, Norgeskart is always my favorite online map site to search for farms.
But this map from 1797 shows Skydebanen at the left, below Gryn Møllen, the grain mill. |
Edited by - ToreL on 05/11/2021 23:07:06 |
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halvelm1
Medium member
USA
90 Posts |
Posted - 06/11/2021 : 03:08:51
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| Thanks all. Jaeger or Jager has followed the patronymic in most cases until the mid 1800's when it was dropped. I believe it originated at Kongsberg because of the obvious connection between Skyde-banen (1800 census residence) and Hunters. In some records it was written Jagers with an "s". In some early records it was recorded as Jeger, leger or eeger. I believe leger was a transcription error, eeger could be a place, so not sure that is correct. Martha is on the extreme left column, seven entries down. Berthel Jagers is one of the few I have found where no patronymic was recorded. Does the plural bear any significance? Odd to think they would list the blessing person and not include the cautionisters and other info usually recorded for a marriage. There was some inter-marriage with people from Hassel farm which seems a little far from the mines, perhaps the people involved were not miners. |
Larry H |
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halvelm1
Medium member
USA
90 Posts |
Posted - 07/11/2021 : 18:43:27
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ToreL great Map! This is what I have been looking for. There are several names found on it that appear in the records after patronymics --these are clearly living places, if not farms. The name Moen appears on the map many times, in some cases as part of road name. As in "Sandsverd-Moen" a road between the two places I assume? Is the Sandsvaer a reference to the parish names? I looked up moen and it means hazy air which would fit perhaps with places along the river.
Eger also shows as Eger Moen (28) and also in lower right which could indicate a living place rather than a corruption of Jager. The many references to Moen could mean something else similar to road like "Vey" I suppose. Bakke, Gammel Greenet are also places used in some records I have found. Halme Kiern is interesting; a kind of mill perhaps? I have seen the name Kjaers or Kiars and wonder if it could be related, as Moeller is, to an occupation. |
Larry H |
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ToreL
Advanced member
Norway
842 Posts |
Posted - 07/11/2021 : 23:11:53
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Moen is detereminate, singular form of the noun mo. (In case you don't know, the Norwegian counterpart to the the English the is (for masculine nouns) the suffix en.) I believe the Norwegian mo and the English moor mean the same thing, and probably have the same origin. In Norwegian, mo has also come to mean a field used for military training, and lots of Norwegian military bases have names ending in moen. Thus Oslo's airport Gardermoen was at one time a training camp for the cavalry.
So even if you find the name "Sandsverd-moen" next to a road, it probably refers to a moor, or possibly a military training field, situated there.
A pond is drawn on the map where "Halme Kiern" is written. One Norwegian name for a pond is tjern. In older literature this can sometimes be found written as kiern. |
Edited by - ToreL on 08/11/2021 13:06:00 |
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halvelm1
Medium member
USA
90 Posts |
Posted - 08/11/2021 : 21:04:37
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| Sounds like I was off track on Moen, but I guess there is some correlation between Moor and hazy air. I read that Sandsverd was where silver was discovered so possibly Vey Sandsverd is road to mines? No relation to parish names perhaps. The Anders Andersen eeger in 1711 and 1724 mantall may not be a Jager at all. Finding eger on the map indicates it could well be a living place, and with estimated 1681 birth could be a liitle too old to be my Hans, Ole, and Niels' father. |
Larry H |
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ToreL
Advanced member
Norway
842 Posts |
Posted - 08/11/2021 : 23:47:25
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Brothers Hans and Ole? Are you referring to another thread here? A shot in the dark: Is this discussion at Arkivverket relevant, also mentioning a brother Christoph?
In any case, there is a relevant tip here, that Jæger was sometimes written Iæger with I rather than J, which has at some occadions been erroniously transcribed as Læger. |
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halvelm1
Medium member
USA
90 Posts |
Posted - 09/11/2021 : 21:37:05
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| ToreL - Yes the discussion at Arkivverket is revelant! Thank you! I was just looking in Eiker churchbook for Ole Andersen Jaeger's birth today; concur with poster who said it is very hard to read. There is also a skifte for an Ole Andersen Leger (1790 02-01- #12 book, page 138b) that I found; but the age is off. There are a number of Jagers in the various miners mantalls (Christoffer, Hans Haagensen, Per Olsen Jeger, Nicolaius Olsen Geiger and some Hassels as well. Whether they are all related is the issue. I am looking for the father of My Ole Andersen Jager who married Anne Andersdatter in 3 November 1736, K-berg, and had sons Peder (1743-1795), Anders (b. May 1746) and Nicolay Olsen (1749-1802). There is a 1766 skifte for Anne that mentions Peder and Nicolay, and a Hans Andersen Wejden and Ingbret Olsen. Bertel, Hans and Niel (1722-19 Oct 1752) Andersen are possible brothers of Ole; Elen Andersdatter a sister. |
Larry H |
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Kåarto
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
5861 Posts |
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halvelm1
Medium member
USA
90 Posts |
Posted - 12/11/2021 : 18:42:39
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| ToreL and Kaarto 's posts have given me a lot of information and new sources to absorb. I have tried to find the baptism church records in Eiker to no avail. Did the exact birth dates in the Bjorg Lunde post come from the 1732 mantall ? Likewise the story that "He lives with his mother and has suffered injuries from shooting so he can no longer danger in the mine" . Did that come from a pension investigation, that is also not online? How can I get a link to these documents? I need to get into Geni and see what is there. Apparently there has been a lot of work done on Ole Andersen Jaeger, and I have been reinventing the wheel. Notice Geni entry has Eiker in Vestfold not Buskerud? Some descendants worked in iron industry in Oyestad several generations later - they came full circle from Hassel Iron Works. Seems like the name Jaeger started with Ole and his brothers - If he was living in his own house could that have been named such? There is also a Bertel Jagers to be accounted for - He had son Anders (6 Jan 1740). There is Bertel Hansen Jagers with daughter Anna (26 March 1741) and Hans Andersen Jagers (Kiersten -1743). |
Larry H |
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Kåarto
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
5861 Posts |
Posted - 12/11/2021 : 21:21:56
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Only the streets in Kongsberg Town had names.
There are still Jægers, not a common name, living in Kongsberg.
When Ole Andersen came to Kongsberg at age ca 12 he started to work in the Large Crushing Plant where the silver was separated from the bed-rock and then washed.
Eiker is a parish in Buskerud, not Vestfold.
Hassel iron Works is located to Bakke sub parish in Øvre Eiker. The church records for Bakke in Eiker, lots of dots, hopefully it works https://media.digitalarkivet.no/en/kb/contents/8482?counties%5B0%5D=06&clerical_parishes%5B0&5D=0624P&start_year=&end_year=&text=
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Edited by - Kåarto on 12/11/2021 21:44:41 |
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halvelm1
Medium member
USA
90 Posts |
Posted - 13/11/2021 : 00:02:17
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Thanks Kaarto. The #8482 book is the one I looked in. Tried again on page /114 (16 Trinity Sunday) and there is nothing there that looks like Hans with a father Anders Christoffers. On /18 no sign of son Christoffer either.
In the mantall for Ole Andersen Jiaeger it says "Eget hus i byen" that's where it says he owned a house in town? Underneath it says his workplace was Stadspukkv; what is that?
The mantall entry for Christoffer also indicates he is a heuer, but the remarks say "Meget fattig derfor tillagt 16" -something about pension?
Hans Jeger in 1724 Mantall is age 22 with ten years of service (started at age 12). Also says 5 (Tjenestetid sprenger) what does that mean? Also, his residence is "Leie Huus" I assume this means he rents?
There is a Anders Andersen in 1724 Mantall age 43 with one son- I thought he might be the father because his place of birth was Eeger. With the discovery of Anders Christoffersen I feel Eeger does not = Jager. As noted before some Eegers show on Kongsberg map. |
Larry H |
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Kongsberg Marriages and Farm maps
