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askeroi
Senior member
Norway
299 Posts |
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cathe
Starting member
Canada
23 Posts |
 Posted - 21/08/2004 : 02:08:30
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Jan:
Yes………. The Norwegian 1900-census………. I didn’t think of this though. Married? Well, I just found out about a week ago, from my mom, that my grandmother was their first child and was born before they were married. The child was Manghild Olava Kvernstuen 1899-1961. The other four girls were named ‘Kristoffersen’ [Karen 1900-1973, Margit 1903-1991, Anni 1908-19 , and Emmi 1910-2001. Emmi was a spinster (from what I understand) and left her property to the nieces and nephews – my mom being one of them. Mom finally told me that there was some question as to the legitimacy of her family because of this, although my 2nd cousin in Norway was instrumental in making sure that it was corrected. Has anyone every read ‘The Shame That Binds’ or ‘When Mothers and Daughters Can’t be Friends’?
Askeroi responded to my first enquiry ‘But why are you so afraid of giving information?’ When their aunt passed my mom’s sister (Aunt Berit) contacted me and my mom was ticked at me, duh. People are forever killing the messenger. I love my Mom and she is getting better (my daughter can be just like her) – ‘she knew not what she was doing’. Shoot, it’s such a long story…….. She forbade me to go down east and visit the family. She isn’t a monster but I can certainly make her sound like one. Oh, the skeletons in the closet. If she only knew the real me! LOL. Then again, maybe she wouldn’t have been so hard on me. She never ridiculed my brothers. Oh, well………. There’s a special seat in heaven for me. Yes, I am totally crazy and I like it that way. Please don’t give me the boot – I am joking.
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jwiborg
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
4961 Posts |
Posted - 21/08/2004 : 09:35:47
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Hi,
based on your latest information, I believe I've found them in the 1900-census: click here
The family lives on the farm Rydningen in Søndre Odalen, Hedmark.
Kristoffer & Mathilde are married, but the census says in coloumn "yrke" (profession) for Maghild, that she is Kristoffers daughter. Normally, such statements indicate that the woman listed [Mathilde] is not the mother... To be sure, you will have to look-up the churchbooks for the area [Sør-Odal, Hedmark county, February 1899]. - Kristoffer Andreassen is born 1873 (+/- 1) in Søndre Odalen, Hedmark
- Matilde Olsdatter is born 1879 (+/- 1) in Kristiania (Oslo)
- Maghild Kristoffersdatter is born Feb. 18, 1899 in Søndre Odalen, Hedmark.
Widower Anders Kristoffersen b.1821 looks to be Kristoffers father. Here he is in census 1865.
Hope this helps!! 
Jan
ps: I saw that you had a question to the norwegian words herred and sondre odalen.
Herred means township / municipality, and "Søndre Odalen" is a township in Hedmark county. Nowadays, the spelling of the township is Sør-Odal. |
Edited by - jwiborg on 21/08/2004 11:35:52 |
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cathe
Starting member
Canada
23 Posts |
Posted - 22/08/2004 : 23:41:58
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Jan:
Your efforts are greatly appreciated -
Maghild Kristoffersdatter is born Feb. 18, 1899 in Søndre Odalen, Hedmark.
The date I have is Feb 18, 1890 (info from my cousin in Boston)
Some stuff makes sense …………… well, other names fit as well………. I am still finding it to be very confusing……………….. my second cousin (in Norway) gave me a breakdown from his side of the family.
He shows the parents of Manghild Olava Kvernstuen 1899-1961 as:
Mathilde Kvernstuen 1880-1963
Kristoffer Kvernstuen 1870-1940
Although the other sisters were given the family name: ‘Kristoffersen’
Cathe
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jwiborg
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
4961 Posts |
Posted - 23/08/2004 : 17:34:18
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Cathe,
there is no doubt in my mind that this must be the correct family...
You must take into consideration that people in Norway throughout the years have had different "rules" for making up a lastname...
Up until approx. 1900, it was very common to take your father's first name, and adding a "-sen"(if you were the son) or adding a "-datter" (if you were the daughter).
So Mathilde's father's firstname is Ole.
But at the end of the century, people startet to make up a Lastname depending on the farm they where living.
Since Kristoffer lived on the farm Rydningen, he could have called himself "Kristoffer Rydningen" for some years after 1900 and onwards.
At some time he must have bought the farm "Kvernstuen" [some years after 1900], and he changed his lastname to Kvernstuen.
That was very common!
Jan
Btw; Kvernstuen and Rydningen are two farms very close to each other, in the same township. |
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cathe
Starting member
Canada
23 Posts |
Posted - 25/08/2004 : 15:41:15
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Jan:
On the 1900 census that you gave me....... (thank you so much). Just a couple of questions:
Under birthplace: what does 'T' mean?
and what does 'Kr.ania' mean?
Cathe |
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jwiborg
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
4961 Posts |
Posted - 25/08/2004 : 15:55:59
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- "T" means that he is born in the same township; i.e. he is born in "Søndre Odalen", or Sør-Odal which is the modern spelling of the area.
- "Kr.ania" is short for "Kristiania/Christiania", the capital of Norway. The modern name (since 1925) of the city is Oslo... Oslo was the original name of the town, until King Christian IV came to the town in 1624, and named the city after himself...
//Jan |
Edited by - jwiborg on 25/08/2004 16:03:35 |
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cathe
Starting member
Canada
23 Posts |
Posted - 25/08/2004 : 16:08:07
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Jan:
Sorry……… there are more. I thought that I would be able to find these in the dictionary.
Husmdsplads
Jordbrugende husmand
Dagarejder ved jordbr.arbejde. Skogsarbejder
Husgj., Kreaturstel pa bostedet
Dagarbejderens
Thank you,
Cathe
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jwiborg
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
4961 Posts |
Posted - 25/08/2004 : 16:57:01
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No problem,
these words or sentences are often hard to translate. The language is old Danish, and abbreviations are often used... 
- Husmandsplads = cotter's farm
- Jordbrugende husmand = farming cotter
- Dagarbejder ved jordbrugsarbejde. Skogsarbejder = Dayworker within agriculture. Lumberman
- Husgjærning, Kreaturstel på bostedet = Housekeeper, taking care of the cattles on the farm
- Dagarbejderens datter = The Dayworkers daughter
//Jan
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cathe
Starting member
Canada
23 Posts |
Posted - 06/09/2004 : 00:44:44
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Thank You Jan:
However............. I looked up cotter in the Heritage dictionary and found it to be exactly what I thought it was lol...... i.e. cotter pin........ lol.
Would cotter actually be 'cottier'?
The Heritage Ilustrated DICTIONARY of the English Language/International Edition 1973.
Cottier n. A peasant renting land directly from its owner, the rate having been fixed by public competition. [Middle English, from Old French 'cotier', cottager, from 'cote' (unattested), cottage, perhaps from Middle English 'cot'. COT (cottage.)]
Some things make me feel so dumb...... I have to remind myself that there is no such thing as a dumb question.
Cathe |
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jwiborg
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
4961 Posts |
Posted - 06/09/2004 : 01:39:26
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Hi,
yes; you're right about that! It should not be a cotter pin!!
I guess it should be spelled cottier... , and maybe also cottar?
And crofter could be used as well, sorry about the confusion! :-)
Blame it on my dictionary, who have it wrong! 
Jan |
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Hopkins
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3351 Posts |
Posted - 06/09/2004 : 21:43:44
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Cotter is the more appropriate spelling. Cottar is a much less often used spelling variation.
I think the Heritage Ilustrated DICTIONARY of the English Language/International Edition 1973 must be at fault. The spelling cottier is usually more specific to the Irish. I've just checked four different English dictionaries and cotter is the preferred spelling for the word you want. |
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cathe
Starting member
Canada
23 Posts |
Posted - 24/09/2004 : 16:12:52
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I have found my gg-grandfather's parents in the LDS but, can't find anything further than them....... maybe there is another way of determining what goes back from there. I would really appreciate any input.......
My gg-grandfather: Tosten Jenssen Sander Sept 30, 1807 to June 25, 1900.
He was born in Hedmark, Norway, died in Norway and his parents were:
Jens. Th. Oppi born 1784 Of, Odalen, Hedmark, Norway
Mrs. Oppi was born about 1788
Jens. Th. Oppi and Mrs. Oppi were married in 1806 Odalen, Hedmark, Norway
I was wondering if there was another way of trying to backtrack this or if anyone had any relation to them.
Cathe |
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Hopkins
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3351 Posts |
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cathe
Starting member
Canada
23 Posts |
Posted - 08/10/2004 : 14:53:53
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Hopkins: Thank you so much...... the 1801 census is definitely the match to my ggg-gr-father and his father born 1745 who is noted as being 'insane, crazy'........ Does anyone know what that would be interpretted as? Just curious of course.
How would I locate the church books for the area on LDS microfilm? And the bygdebok, 5 volumes by Birger Kirkeby.
Much appreciated,
Cathe |
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glad to have found this site
