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Richard Schumacher
Junior member
USA
53 Posts |
 Posted - 16/08/2008 : 00:06:12
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I think I found Samuel Ondell. He and his wife apprently relocated to Dunn County, Wisconsin. At that time, he was known as Samuel Omdahl and became the county sheriff.
I have spent several days researching the Peter Ondell family in several counties of Wisconsin. I even found Peter Ondell's home from 1860 until 1890 by using legal descriptions, the county plat maps, USGS maps and a portable GPS unit. Nothing was left, so obviously I got no clues relating back to the family Norwegian heritage. I also found the street named after him and the building that was built about 1870.
I am slowly being forced for abandon the traditional method of researching back to toward ancestors and may be grasping at finding possiblities in Norway after 15 years and trying to find where they went and when. The bridge over the water is very large at times, especially if you are in the early stages.
Far too many facts (1850 to 1915), but the proverbial big void and no keys to putting everything together.
Thank you for any interest. |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
Posted - 17/08/2008 : 02:06:32
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Hi Richard,
Well, your frustration flies off the page for certain but I hope you won't mind answering a few questions regards which records you have searched.
Have you ever had the opportunity to look in the Rowberg Biographical File for Ondells?
Have you had the opportunity to search for Peter Ondell in the Naeseth Norwegian Immigrants to the United States, A biographical directory 1825-1850 series?
It appears that you have looked at civil records of Peter's marriage but have you looked at church records for the kids baptisms, confirmations, Peter's marriages etc? From Norsk Menigheter i Amerika 1843-1915 by O. M. Norlie, it appears that the earliest two churches in Milwaukee were: Norsk lutherske menighet organized in 1844 and Church of the Ascension organized in 1852, in Whitewater, Walworth Co, is Whitewater norsk evangelisk lutherske menighet organized in 1858 and First Evangelical Lutheran Church organized in 1871(but associated with Whitewater above from 1858). The next nearest and oldest church to Whitewater is St. Matteus norsk evangelisk lutherske menighet 3 miles south of Palmyra, Wisconsin in Jefferson county organized in 1844. If you haven't already you might want to try www.elca.org archivist to see if any of these records have been microfilmed and are available for loan.
I assume you have already seen this at the blm website and is this Peter is yours?
View
Image Patentee Name State County Issue
Date Land Office Doc.
Nr. Accession/
Serial Nr.
ONDELL, LOUIS SD Spink 3/19/1887 Montana State Office 6458 SDMTAA 124255
ONDELL, MARTIN SD Spink 3/19/1887 Montana State Office 6459 SDMTAA 130148
ONDELL, PETER IA Winneshiek 6/15/1855 Dubuque 22337 IA1440__.231
Hilsen,
Jackie M. |
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Richard Schumacher
Junior member
USA
53 Posts |
Posted - 18/08/2008 : 00:49:19
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I am sorry if my frustration showed through to that extent. I really appreciate any help, input and suggestions.
I have not researched the Rowberg Biographical Files, but will look for the them.
I have gone through the Naeseth Norwegian Immigrants (4 or 5 volumes, if I recall correctly). Fortunately, I have access to them at several local sites due to the Scandinavian influence in Minnesota. I ran into some of the classicial naming, spelling (Ondell, Odell, Aandahl, Andal, Undalen, Ollendorf, etc.) and pronunciation problems, but still could not find any information.
I looked at Peter Ondell's marriage certificate in Whitewater, Wisconsin and had a minor problem with the script/date, but resolved that by research the minister's (Martin P. Kinney) history. He was a Presbyterian minisiter that served from 1844 to 1853, so the date given to the certificate of 1851 was correct. There were no baptism certificates available prior to the merger of the churches that occurred a few years later. As was pointed out by the local genealogists, the recording of births and baptisms was not common (and probably rare) at that time. Peter was not living in Milwaukee at the reported birth dates of the first two children, but was living at the location of the birth of the second two children. Apparently, it was common for the wife to live in an established town nearby while the husband made his way in the developing areas. Again, only local history and no documentation.
The surviving Lutheran churches in Whitewater have yeilded no information. The possibility of the nearby church in Palmyra, Jefferson County is one place to visit personally since I could not find any information available on line. The State of Wisconsin did a good job on the doumenation and available records, but there are many voids, especially on births and deaths.
I found some of the BLM records and they seem to agree with the migration of the two surviving sons to South Dakota, except that there is a questionable report of Martin being in Wisconsin, but that could be just in record of the land sale while he lived or was in the process of relocating to South Dakota near his brother. Martins daughter was born in La Crosse county in October 1887, but his next child was born in south Dakota in 1892.
I will check out the information on Peter Ondell from 1855. At that time, the states were being formed and registering points were changing and this may have been for the purchase of the property in Leon, Monroe County prior to leaving Walworth County just after 1858. - In that area, at that time, anything is possible.
I will on digging with all the suggestions provided since I have the time, interest and general backgound. If it was in Nnorwegian script from an old church record, I would be more comfortable, but the "wild west" without a "bridge" across the Atlantic is a real challenge!! |
Edited by - Richard Schumacher on 18/08/2008 00:52:11 |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
Posted - 18/08/2008 : 02:22:44
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Hi Richard,
Re Rowberg--I have access to a fiched copy of it in the town where I live and I will look for Ondells if that is okay with you. A Martin Ondell died 1915 in Spink county and could be included in Rowberg.
Yes, not every Norwegian was Lutheran over here by any means but most seemed to go to the Lutheran church. The ELCA has the microfilmed records that were in existence and filmed in the 1970s and you may order them for your own research or you can hire the archivist to look into them for you. The archivist is most familiar with the various churches in existence. Baptismal records are useful because the witnesses /godparents (faddernes) are often relatives, and you may be able to broaden the "base" of names for which you look.
Re the Naeseth series of books, maybe you need to broaden the kind of search. If your guy did indeed come to America in 1835-1839 he is most likely covered. But there seems to be more variation on his age as revealed in the census records that you should look for Peders of any location / of any surname / patronymic born between 1814-1824. There won't be that many. He should also be in the 1840 census (maybe not as a head of household but counted someplace.)
No need to apologize about depth & breadth of emotion--everyone needs a fire up...
Jackie M.
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Richard Schumacher
Junior member
USA
53 Posts |
Posted - 18/08/2008 : 04:48:03
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Jackie, thank you for your information and offer of assistance,
I would appreciate any information you could get from the Rowberg source. Martin (d. 1915) did live in Spink, South Dakota as did his older brother, Louis (d. 1918), who also died there.
The person recognized as his mother (Mary/Betsey Olson) lived with hid brother, Louis' family in 1910 and also died about 1918 in Spink. She actually married Peter Ondell in about 1869, when Peter's children were young, and was thought of or recognized as the "mother" of the boys and my great-grandmother (Mary Dorothea Ondell), who was born between Louis and Martin Ondell. I have good later information on the Ondell children/descendents (and photos) except for the actual birth records and Norwegian names of the parents.
I recognize the wide range of the birth dates of Peter Ondell, but there some general consensus as to the dates that can reasonably be resolved by following the movements of the entire "core" family group (father and children). Unfortunately, the early U.S, Census prior to 1880 was not as exact as Norwegian census or actual birth and immigration records. The census relies on the verbal answers to questions asked by one first generation person from one country to another first generation person from an other country and reporting it in English. Add in the adding and subtracting errors and poor memory, you have errors, most of which are are of the magnitude of 1 or 2 years (rounding off) either way or possibly 10 years depending on the legibility of the hand written census documents. After the name change of the entire family in the U.S. Census from Ondell to Ollendorf, I recognize that everything written 150 years ago is not always correct and you have look closely at the actual documents and the name of the census enumerator.
I feel Peter Ondell may have been married before his marriage to the mother (Christine Louisa Mattis) of his four recognized children. He was about 37 years old in 1851, which is a little late in life. I did find a Peder Pedersen that was born either 1814 or 1816 in either Leja, Oppland, Norway or Uldalen, Sel, Oppland, Norway. In 1845, at the age of 28 to 31, he married a Mari Knutsdatter in Lesja. He was a soldier at that time. Unfortunately, I have not been able to track him from that date on, but he may have immigrated and he does not show up in the 1865 Norwegian census. He could have gone anywhere, but that is the problem with finding a person and trying to trace to future locations or life. If I could speak Norwegian at all and if I had better grasp of reading old Norwegian script, I would jump on a plane immediately because of my other ancestors from a different branch (Ringebu area).
Peter Ondell did not seem to be a very religious person. The woman (Betsey/Mary Olson) he married in 1869 may have transferred land adjacent to the Fish Creek, Wisconsin Lutheran Church and Cemetery. Peter lived 1 1/2 miles north on the way to his children's (Martin & Louis) businesses another mile or so north. - As you see, I have to many pieces to the jig-saw puzzle, but no where to begin.
I have birth dates(verbally reported, not certified) of Peter's children including the supposed day, month and year. Two were in Walworth County with no known registration and two in Milwaukee. Unfortunately, Milwaukee was more of an area at that time, being merged and split into separate entities. Racine was one part of "Milwaukee", but that was split off and Walworth county was formed.
I appreciate any and all thoughts on resources or approaches.
Dick |
Edited by - Richard Schumacher on 18/08/2008 05:43:49 |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
Posted - 18/08/2008 : 06:12:56
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Hi Richard,
Rowberg is an interesting source. The original card file is housed at the Norwegian-American Historical Association on the campus of St. Olaf College in Northfield, Minnesota. It was the "morgue" or clipping file of Andrew Rowberg a newspaper editor from Northfield. Apparently in his position he received newspapers in exchange for sending his own and he found keeping the clipping file was important to write obits, articles and basic information for his own paper. The collection has an estimated 125,000 pieces, mostly obituaries, dating from about 1914 - 1969. Skandinaven, Decorah Posten are two papers which are represented heavily in Rowberg, but many smaller local papers are also there.
The Norwegian language press performed important functions in the settler's communities. Stories about individuals were often posted to them and when the paper published it was if the information was posted on a bulletin board, for all to see. The circulation of these papers was phenomenal. For instance, my great grandfather subscribed to three papers, Skandinaven, Decorah Posten, and Normanden. In one pioneer history, I read that the papers were passed from settler to settler and then when all had been read by all, they were used to paper their claim shacks!
It sounds as if you have already found Peder's obituary in the local paper but it may be possible that his obit was posted in one of the Norwegian language papers as well. I don't know much about the other titles but surviving issues of Skandinaven have been microfilmed and were listed in the loan catalog of the Illinois State Library. The dates the films covered were approximately 1866-1910.
I'll let you know if I find anything in Rowberg.
Hilsen,
Jackie M. |
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Richard Schumacher
Junior member
USA
53 Posts |
Posted - 18/08/2008 : 07:20:03
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Jackie -
Thanx for the information on the Rowberg source. I will be there this week since it is close and I have good friend in Northfield - "The City of Cows Colleges and Contentment". The two major institutions are Carlton College (Correctly named the Harvard of the Midwest according to scholars) and St. Olaf College. For those into the old TV shows, on the "Golden Girls" show, Rose's home of St. Olaf was really based on Northfield, Minnesota.
I look forward to the articles and it probaby is a parallel to the source of the Scandinavian newspaper man that founded the Swedish American Institute in Minneapolis. Since my heritage is both Norwegian and Swedish, I can be a member. - Are there any Norwegian sources that may be at the Augustana College in Minneapolis? |
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eibache
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
6495 Posts |
Posted - 09/12/2008 : 07:47:43
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If Peter Ondell = Peder Pedersen Aandahl, he could be #18
confirmed Sept 18 1831, said to have been bapt April 5 1813 (parish records missing for 1808/09-1817)
His parents and siblings found at the 1801 census.
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Einar |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
Posted - 09/12/2008 : 11:09:24
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Hi eibache,
Sorry to jump in here and good on you if this is Dick's guy, but is this a bit odd or what?
In the dozen or so boy confirmations on this page about 6 list a different first name on the father than the confirmand's patronym would suggest. A curiosity, to be sure and I don't think I've seen this many incidences of this before.
Jackie M. |
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Richard Schumacher
Junior member
USA
53 Posts |
Posted - 09/12/2008 : 23:34:34
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eibache -
That is cetainly a very interesting discovery. My ability with the old scripts, language and ability to access through digitalarkivet limits me frequently. The December 14, 1814 is only based on a county history information with no real documentation beyond what was provided by others in 1870. Other dates have been much different, but the track of the family group in the U.S. is well documented despite the obvious language and writing errors. My next challenge is to find if the Peter/Peder did emmigrate to the U.S. before 1850. I will also have to look at possible marriages in Norway, since he emmigrated at the age of 30 to 35 and may have been married then
jkmarler -
In looking at the comfirmation records, the same thing occurred to me. Perhaps, the latter entries were all for chidren that had no parents and were adopted or taken in by others? I have no real basis for this. These may have been accumulated and entered at the end of the year, instead of chronologically as is the normal situation. Peder's father, if he was the person shown in the 1801 census provided by eibache would have been 74 years old at the time and may have died earlier.
I appreciate all the information and assistance. This has be some of the best information I have received, and just have to make a reasonable link through immigration since I am going from older to younger rather than tracing the young persons ancestors, which is much easier.
It is ironic that I found a John Andreas Peterson Aandahl (b. 12/12/1824 in in Kristiansund) and baptised 2/6/1825 in Bud, More og Romdahl), which is not far away. He is a possible father of another Ondell family in the same area of Wiscinsin during the same period. If this is true, I have photos from 1915 of his decendents on a visit to the home of Peter's descendants.
It would be good if accurate records from that area of Wisconsin were created and preserved. |
Edited by - Richard Schumacher on 10/12/2008 01:05:32 |
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eibache
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
6495 Posts |
Posted - 10/12/2008 : 07:46:51
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quote:
Peder's father, if he was the person shown in the 1801 census provided by eibache would have been 74 years old at the time and may have died earlier.
Peder Knudsen, Aandal died Nov 15 1834, 78 years old, see #8.
Possible cause of extensive use of nursing homes recorded at confirmation could be explained by the notes of the death records: "Frøs ihjel paa Sjøen" -froze to death at sea, "Begge blew paa Sjøen" -both rested at sea, "Druknet" -drowned. etc.
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Einar |
Edited by - eibache on 10/12/2008 19:47:41 |
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Richard Schumacher
Junior member
USA
53 Posts |
Posted - 17/02/2009 : 21:00:52
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I am trying to find the emmigration of Peder Pederson Aandal and any possible marriages he may have had in Norway.
The Digitalarkivet records for the Vaaga, Fræna, etc area of More og Romsdal seem to unavailable or difficult to find because of the merging and consolidations of the parishes. Using the 1801 and 1865 census, I was able to find Peder's siblings, but it appears Peder was not there. in 1865.
What are some suggestion to find out where Peder's emmigration records may be found (he apparently emmigrated before 1850) and how could I search for a possible marriage?
I am a little to reluctant to accept the relationship between Peder Pedersen Aandal and my Peter Ondell without be sure he did emmigrate and there is a one year difference in the apparent birth year. - I have seen too many searches ruined by jumping at possibilities too quickly.
Any suggestions will be appreciated.
Dick |
Edited by - Richard Schumacher on 17/02/2009 21:06:24 |
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Kåarto
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
5861 Posts |
Posted - 17/02/2009 : 23:16:21
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I looked into your posting from August 18. and the diff. spellings of Ondell you had seen in USA and I found following with simulare names in 12 municipalities, the parish´s/municipalities might have changed name from the 1865 census I used here:
- Ondal; Sørum in Akershus County
- Odalen; Aas in Akershus county
- Odalen; Thrygstad, Eidsberg and Rakkestad in Øsfold County
- Odalen; Øyestad in Aust-Agder County
- Aandalen; Vardal in Oppland county
- Aandal: Grytten, Thingvold and Fræna in Møre & Romsdal County
- Undal; Holme in Vestagder County
- Undal; Eivindvik in Sogn & Fjordane County
I really hope you will suceed.
Kåre
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Aandahl/Ondell etc. ancestors
