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9245
Starting member
USA
23 Posts |
 Posted - 04/02/2007 : 04:35:19
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Does anyone know whether sailors intending to emigrate were permitted to bring family members on board Naval ships, and if marriages were performed by captains or chaplains during the voyage. If so, are these recorded anywhere?
Rather odd question, I know, but I'm running out of options for marriage record.
Thanks
Jeanne |
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Jo Anne Sadler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
1100 Posts |
Posted - 04/02/2007 : 18:16:10
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Your question is only odd because you have given absolutely no information to allow people to help you.
What country are you talking about? What century? Name of the vessel? Who is it that you are looking for a record? Where did they come from and where did they settle? Navy/merchant Marine/wartime/peacetime?
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9245
Starting member
USA
23 Posts |
Posted - 05/02/2007 : 17:34:24
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Country: Norway possibly Verdal are
Century:19th
Names: Anton Andriassen and Christine Olsen
Name of vessel: unknown
Dates of emigration 1884 and 85, respectively
settled In New York area
He served Norwegian merchant marine and US Navy, wartime and peacetime. Date of marriage unknown, first child born US. 1895.
I was asking, in a general, friendly manner, whether records of this type exist, before I posted details, and bothered other members for help. |
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Borge
Veteran Moderator
Norway
1297 Posts |
Posted - 05/02/2007 : 18:42:21
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quote:
Originally posted by 9245
Does anyone know whether sailors intending to emigrate were permitted to bring family members on board Naval ships, and if marriages were performed by captains or chaplains during the voyage. If so, are these recorded anywhere?
Rather odd question, I know, but I'm running out of options for marriage record.
Thanks
Jeanne
I have never heard about any serviceman being permitted to emigrate off a Norwegian Naval ship. A sailor would have to be discharged from service and follow the ordinary process of emigration, as far as I know. Norwegian Naval ships very rarely crossed the Atlantic. On some merchant ships the captains performed marriages, but this was not common, and I doubt it very much on a Naval ship. There were Norwegian or Swedish churches (or missions) specially for sailors in some of the greater ports around the world, and marriages were some times conducted by the chaplains there. Some of the records have survived in the Norwegian National Archives.Some scanned records at Digitalarkivet |
Børge Solem |
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9245
Starting member
USA
23 Posts |
Posted - 05/02/2007 : 20:30:29
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Thank you for your helpful response. That was kind of my feeling as well, but I thought I'd ask.
I have exhausted my options for their marriage to have taken place in US. Both states where they lived, have replied that there are no records. I know that my gr-grandmother and their 3 children lived with him on one of his Navy posts, but that didn't occur until 1910.
I suppose it is possible that they married in Norway, and he emigrated first, but I've as yet been unable to confirm 100% where his birthplace was.
Thanks again
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jwiborg
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
4961 Posts |
Posted - 05/02/2007 : 22:21:42
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Hi Jeanne,
according to a Rootsweb message board, this is the person you're looking for:
Anton Andreassen
Born 19-jan-1864
Confirmation 05-oct-1879
Married 22-feb-1889
Parents Andreas Olsen Sandsvald & Anne Andersdr Sandsvald
FT-1865: Anthon Andreassen on Sandslien farm in Stiklestad, Verdal parish, Nord Trøndelag
FT-1875: Anton Andriassen on Aunet farm in Stiklestad, Verdal parish, Nord Trøndelag
FT-1900: Anton Andreassen on Sandsaunet in Stiklestad, Verdal parish, Nord Trøndelag
The farms Sandslien (1865), Aunet (1875) and Sandsaunet (1900) could be different "spelling" variations of the Sandsvald farm you are looking for in another topic.
However, this Anton is in census 1900 married to a girl named Tella Pedersen..., and the family is living in Verdal. He even have 3 children there, Aksel, Olga and Ragnvald
Did he move back home to Norway?
Jan Peter |
Edited by - jwiborg on 05/02/2007 22:23:28 |
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9245
Starting member
USA
23 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2007 : 00:58:39
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Thank you Jan
Yes, I have seen that info. I have a copy of my gr-grandfather's naturalization papers which indicate he became US citizen in 1890. He married a Christine Olsen ( date unknown). To my knowledge, he never moved back to Norway, but maintained residence in Hoboken New Jersey until his death in 1932.
I have to assume that the Anton from Stiklestad is the wrong person, but other than a birthdate of Sept. 1864, and emigration date of 1884, I have nothing to go on regarding his correct birthplace, and I've exhausted all reserach options that I can think of.  |
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jwiborg
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
4961 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2007 : 01:21:52
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Ok,
then this Anton Andreassen Sandsvald from Verdal is definitively out of the question...!
Maybe you should start by putting up what you have for proof of his existence, instead of these tricky puzzles... 
What was his full name?
Any census information in the US? Hoboken New Jersey ?
Where do you have his birthdate of Sept. 1864 from?
Where does the info about emigration date of 1884 come from?
Jan Peter |
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Lester Hanson
Advanced member
USA
567 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2007 : 02:05:35
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USA census for 1930, Hoboken, Hudson, New Jersey lists: Anderssen, Anton age 64, Immigrated 1884 Naturilized, Retired.
Spouse: Christine age 64, Immigrated ?1925?. Naturilized.
Daughter: Josephine Corey, age 33, born in New Jersey.
Grandson: Thomas Corey, age 7, born in New Jersey.
I was unable to find other censuses.
Les |
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9245
Starting member
USA
23 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2007 : 02:30:04
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Hi Jan
What I have up to this point is:
1. US censuses from 1900-1930 indicating residence in NJ
2. Copy of his naturalization papers, indicating emigration date of 1884 ( also contained on censuses), citizenship applied for in 1888, granted in 1890>
3. Birth certs. for his 3 children ( all born in US)
His birthdate comes from 1900 military census, which he gave asSept. 1864. This is included on subsequent censuses as well..as his obit.
4. Copy of his obit, which details his 30 year US military career,
and other personal info.This article also states that prior to enlisting in US Navy, he served in Norwegian, German and British Merchant marine. This is why I asked about different emigration and marriage possibilities..As you can see, I've done my US research. As for the "Verdal Anton", someone who lives in Norway had sent me that info. I wasn't convinced of it's accuracy, but I simply had not found a better match. I don't speak the language, and so it is not always easy to get the ins and outs of Digitalarkivet.
So, I can confirm his "existance" in US. What I am missing are the years from 1884-1900. I'm sure you know that most of our 1890 census is gone, so that leaves a big gap.
There is no record of his marriage in NY or NJ, so that is a mystery as well.
Thank you for the link to Seamen's Church, I did check for marriage record, but didn't find.
Jeanne
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9245
Starting member
USA
23 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2007 : 03:14:38
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. .Thank you Lester for your help. Parts of that census are not correct. Christine emigrated in 1885, and the name Cory was actually Carey. Also, the spelling was Andriasen. The earliest US census I have is 1900, when Anton was serving on USS Celtic. He was listed in the Naval and Military portion of the census.Then in 1910, he appears with Christine and children at the Naval base in at Culebra in Puerto Rico. I would like to find out Christine's whereabouts in 1900, but no luck so far.
Seems like they turned everyone into "Anderson's".
Thanks again
Jeanne. |
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Lester Hanson
Advanced member
USA
567 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2007 : 16:20:15
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Was Anton in the US Navy in 1894? It is possible for a Navy Base to have a Chaplain that performs marriages. The 1930 census indicates they were both 30 years old when they got married. I don't know how a military base keeps track of marriages.
Les |
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9245
Starting member
USA
23 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2007 : 19:02:48
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Thank you Les, what you say is really helpful. Yes, he was in Navy in 1894. As near as I can figure, he enlisted around 1886, but the first time I find him on a military census is 1900. He was stationed at Culebra Naval base in 1910, but by that time he was married and Christine and children were living with him there.
I too noticed that they were both 30 at time of marriage. That troubles me because it seems a bit old for a first marriage, given that time period.
I have been unable to secure his military records, even though I have followed procedure. Each agency refers me back to the other.
In addition of course, we have the missing 1890 census, which leaves me with a large gap. I had thought of the marriage date of 1894, because their first child was born in 1895. Also, Christina gives her naturalization date as 1894, and I have read I think, that most women gained their naturalization status through their husbands.
Oh well, these puzzles are what keep us all searching, I guess.
Thanks again
Jeanne |
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Lester Hanson
Advanced member
USA
567 Posts |
Posted - 07/02/2007 : 02:24:45
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I found this US Navy information site:
Department of the Navy
Naval Historical Center
805 Kidder Breese SE
Washington Navy Yard
Washington, DC 20374-5060
One of their sites says this:
Government Sources:
The Naval Historical Center does not have custody of crew lists or current addresses for former crew members. However, this information can be compiled from several sources. The names of the officers usually appear on the first page of each month's deck log. The enlisted men assigned to a naval ship or command are listed on muster rolls which were also submitted monthly.
The Old Military and Civil Records Branch, National Archives, 700 Pennsylvania Avenue NW, Washington, DC 20408 (202-501-5385) holds copies of the deck logs from 1801 through December 1940, as well as the muster rolls through 1938 in bound books.
If you haven't tried this place, it sounds like they may be able to help a little bit.
Les
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Brining
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
868 Posts |
Posted - 07/02/2007 : 05:09:09
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In the 1900 census Anton says he has been married for 6 years and in the 1910 census Christine says she has been married for 16 years so 1894 would probably be correct for their marriage date.
In the 1900 census Anton lists his address as 725 Adams St Hoboken New Jersey. That would probably be where Christine would be living if you could find it in the census.
Carla |
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9245
Starting member
USA
23 Posts |
Posted - 07/02/2007 : 16:17:56
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Just wanted to thank Carla and Lester for their responses.
Les, I did contact the old military records, but they bounced me back to NARA, with no luck. I did see the site for the Naval Historical, but I have to go back and look again.
Carla, I thought I had found a good clue, with that 1900 census with regard to the 725 address, but I couldn't find Christine. I know the layout of Hoboken fairly well, as I was born there, and continue to visit, and although I did find Adams , but in that particular block, I didn't see her.
The 1894 marriage date seems to make sense, although NY and NJ claim to not have any record. Also troubling is the fact
that they both were around 30 when they married. It seems a little old to have been a first marriage, given the customs of the time. I don't have any info to suggest that either of them were
previously married, but I don't know for sure.
Again, thanks to you both for you help
Jeanne |
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sailors and marriage
