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ericc
Starting member
USA
12 Posts |
 Posted - 28/02/2007 : 22:03:55
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| anyone having information or advice concerning iver hansen born about 1685 on the dilling farm? i believe his son was lars iversen , his son hans larsen. his son andreas hansen. also any information about a johan a. kristensen a constabel in kristiania 1901? my great-grandfathers name is Arthur Samuel Kristensen. Thank you very much. |
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Hopkins
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3351 Posts |
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ericc
Starting member
USA
12 Posts |
Posted - 01/03/2007 : 00:32:58
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| iapologize for any confusion. i know my great-grandfathers name was arthur samuel kristensen. the only one which i can find is johans son inthe 1901 census. i am familiar with the digital archives but am trying to find out if this johan a. kristensen is the same johan showing inthe 1865 census for eidsberg{born 5 dec 1854} everything matches except childrens names. ilose this johan in 1877 aramark after the birth of first child karl [born4 april 1877][. next is the 1901 census with children not including karl. ihave searched the aramark archives 1878 on but cannot find them. if it is the right johan ican trace him back to an iver hansen{born 1685?] on the dilling farm. i have not found farm histories inthe archives . this book Rygge sounds very interesting. any more info author publisher availability? |
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Hopkins
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3351 Posts |
Posted - 01/03/2007 : 02:58:38
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By 1900 (not 1901) the boy Karl born in 1877 would be about 23 years old - he could have moved out on his own years earlier - or perhaps even died.
I don't see any record of a birth for a similar Karl in Aremark (not Aramark), Østfold church records. Was he baptised a long long time after 4 April 1877? Can you provide a URL link to the birth/baptismal record for the son Karl?
You can find publication details for the Rygge book in the LDS Family History Library catalog. |
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ericc
Starting member
USA
12 Posts |
Posted - 01/03/2007 : 09:15:18
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| thank you hopkins . i mistated karls birthplace it is rakkestad 4 april 1877 page 217? in the digitized parrish register item 57. i am sorry to have wasted your time with my error. problem im having is this particular book ends after 1877 and icant find where the children which show up inthe 1900 census are born [persons arthur45306 karoline45307 otilie45308 rakel45309 in the 1900 census 0301 kristiania farmhouse vaaningshus]. i f in fact the johan arnt kristensen who fathered karl ludvig is the same johan a. kristensen [person 45304] in kristiania. i have gone thru the eidsberg parrish registers and found only two johan kristensens born in 1854 only one of these married an oline from askim [page 416 of the rakkestad parrish registry item 32. 27 october 1876]. also isaw a relly cool viking smilie how do you do that? |
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Kåarto
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
5861 Posts |
Posted - 01/03/2007 : 10:25:34
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Practical advice for new users in digitalarkivet.:
Use contains and not equals, because if a person was given two first names you will not find him. Start with few letters and see how the name is spelled, exclude non important persons. The same goes for seeking a last name if both the fathers and the name of the farm was used. Names like Christian can be spelled Kristian, Christen and Kristen and can be changed from parish to parish,this goes for other names too, John can be Ion and Jon etc. Good luck.
Kåre |
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Hopkins
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3351 Posts |
Posted - 01/03/2007 : 14:42:48
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Eric, your postings are almost impossible to read and completely confusing. English is my native language and I'm having problems - I can imagine that those that have English as a second language find the level of difficulty even more daunting.
I've now seen the scanned facimile of Johan's birth, his marriage to Oline S., the son Karl L's birth/baptismal record and Oline S's birth/baptismal record. I've seen Johan with his parents in the 1865 and with his own family in 1900 and Oline S's parental family in the 1865 census. Study all those records again very carefully and you'll also find several pieces of information that help to prove out links.
When you find the younger children's birth/baptismal records you will probably find more evidence. If Johan and Oline S. are living in Oslo/Kristiania in 1900 wouldn't you think it likely that the younger children may have been born there? Many of the different Oslo congregations are part of the online scanned collection of church records. The records scanned and online are NOT the only records available for Norway. For example, check in the LDS catalog for microfilm copies church records after 1877 for the Rakkestad. Those have been available for years and years at any LDS Family History Center around the world - you only have to study the library catalog for the microfilm/fiche call numbers, visit a nearby center and order the appropriate microfilm/fiche.
I see fairly obvious links between the Johan A. family in Oslo in 1900 and those mentioned in the various church records of Eidsberg, Rakkestad, Askim. I don't understand how you have problems making the links between 1854-1865-1877-1900 persons - but then want to make an apparently random and undocumented leap to link to a "Dilling" farm family in Rygge.
I don't know what a "cool viking smilie" is and I don't understand what it has to do with the inquiries about these families.
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Edited by - Hopkins on 01/03/2007 14:48:32 |
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Borge
Veteran Moderator
Norway
1297 Posts |
Posted - 01/03/2007 : 20:10:49
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quote:
Originally posted by ericc
also isaw a relly cool viking smilie how do you do that?
Ehrem....do you mean this little fellow: 
It is just something I stored on the server and inserted as an image by using this url: http://www.norwayheritage.com/images/icon_viking.gif |
Børge Solem |
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ericc
Starting member
USA
12 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2007 : 04:24:13
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Thank you Borge for the viking emoticon. Don't know how to insert it yet but it brightens my day.
Thank you Hopkins for loooking at those records!! It is encouraging you find the connection obvious as I can decipher little other than names from the parrish registry.
This is what I have so far
Johan Arnt Kristensen married 27 oct 1876 rakkestad and born 5 dec 1854 Eidsburg.
Christen Andreassen married 10 jan 1854 Eidsburg and born 28 april 1823 Eidsberg.
Andreas Hansen married 27 nov 1819 Eidsberg and born 1 aug 1791 Rygge.
Hans Larsen married 2 nov 1780 Rygge born maybe 5 april 1750 Rygge?
Lars Iversen married 24 oct 1740 Rygge? born about 1713 Rygge?
Iver Hansen???maried about 1710 Rygge? born about 1685 Rygge?Dilling?
I believe this is right. however
This is where the LDS hits stop. How reliable is the information on the LDS websites?
I haven't acess to parrish records which aren't on the internent. currently i'm trying to purchase books from the Rygge Museum.
Are these the right books? Mantall 1664-1666, Garder og Slektor, Bygdehistorien, Tiden 1800 til 1980.
This is the best website ,short of the digital archives of Norway, which I have seen. Great links too! Thank you again
Eric Christensen
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Hopkins
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3351 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2007 : 14:19:53
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The reliability of information taken from the LDS databases depends upon the source of the information given to them. Records which have been extracted from primary records are usually pretty good (those are most often found in their IGI and Vital Records databases). Information submitted to them by private individuals is highly suspect (watch for those carefully from the IGI, Ancestral File and Pedigree Resource databases).
The extraction based database information available through the LDS is NOT complete for all parts of Norway. Those additions are being made by volunteers who work their way through facimilies of the parish records and do their best to extract all the basic data and enter it into electronic database format. They make available what has been completed - but much still remains undone. If the record you really need hasn't been extracted it doesn't mean that it doesn't exist - just that it hasn't been extracted yet.
While I'm not going through each of the events you've listed just above (thank you for taking the time to make it easily readable) I see the weakest point in your assumptions as being with Andreas Hansen married in Eidsberg and born in Rygge. How can you assume that it is the same Andreas Hansen? It was a very common name all over Norway. I looked into the 1801 Norwegian census database on the Digitalarkivet and found TWO Andreas Hansen boys living in Eidsberg and the Dilling farm Andreas Hansen in Rygge - three different boys of the same age group. (At least 29 Andreas Hansen boys that age in all areas of Norway - but I limit here to those from Østfold.) To me that raises a "red flag" and immediately demands more proof be found.
Are you SURE that you are not close to one of the many many LDS Family History Centers? Perhaps I can help you find the nearest if you'll reveal where you live. (No more detail than city/state or county/state necessary.)
I don't think you should spend money to purchase material from Rygge until you can be sure that you are tracking the correct Andreas Hansen and that would best be started in the records for Eidsberg where your ancestral links still appear fairly secure. I'd also recommend that for published books you trythe Inter-Library Loan program through your local public library - that will probably save you a lot of money. (My Norske frugal nature shows!)
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Trond
Moderator
Norway
174 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2007 : 14:36:31
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| One way to find the birthplace for Arthur Samuel Kristensen and the other children of Johan A. Kristensen is to look up the Kristiania/Oslo census 1905 - 1908. This is an yearly census but its not online only filmed and can be found at Oslo Kommune Byarkivet .The difficulties in using these Kristiania censuses is that you need the exact addresses for this year. There is an address book for Kristiania available each year 1900 – 1908. His address in 1900 were Frognerveien 29, Kristiania and his father Johan A Kristensen, policeman, this is a good start for a search at Byarkivet. Do you know when he moved to America? |
Trond Austheim |
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Hopkins
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3351 Posts |
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Hopkins
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3351 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2007 : 17:28:04
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When Christen Andreasen married Anne Christine Svendsdatter 1854 in Eidsberg - the listing of his father as Andreas Hansen Glørudholtet? in Rakkestad was briefly worrisome because the match to Eidsberg area appeared "broken".
The 1865 Norwegian census shows Eidsberg born Christen Andreasen with Anne K. (Christine can also be spelled Kristine) Svendsdtr living on Glørudholtet farm in Rakkestad. Notice that his mother is probably listed as the widow Oline Jensdtr also living in that household. The census has listed her birthplace as Olso/Kristiania - but that might be in error. Only careful research would prove that.
http://digitalarkivet.uib.no/cgi-win/webcens.exe?slag=visbase&sidenr=37&filnamn=f60128&gardpostnr=260&sokefelt=skjul
The birthplaces listed for their several children would make it appear that they moved from Eidsberg to Rakkestad between 1856 and 1858.
HA! Christen's father, Andreas Hansen, died 9 Jul 1859, Glørudholtet farm in Rakkestad. Listed as 68 years old which should again put birth at about 1791.
http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=407&idx_id=407&uid=ny&idx_side=-163
Good luck - my eyes are too tired for any more of this.
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ericc
Starting member
USA
12 Posts |
Posted - 04/03/2007 : 02:59:37
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Thank you everyone especially Hopkins!!
I will have to try and find more about the other Andreas Hansens from Eidsberg. You have given me good leads and ideas.
I can see now I was making quite a leap from Eidsberg/Rakkestad to Rygge. So I will explain.
Looking for an Andreas Hansen Born 1791 and an Olia Jensdatter born 1800 I found both on the same farm(Dillinggaardene) in the 1801 census for Rygge. Sorry I don't know how to do links.
do you think this is just coincidence?
I was hoping to find in the Rygge books evidence of Andreas moving to Berg and Olia's family moving to the Wete farm. This Andreas has at least three older brothers. I thought this meant he would move to a new farm.
You are right though the best evidence should come from Berg and Wete not Rygge. I hadn't given enough importance to these farm names. I will see what i can find out about them.
With regards to Arthur Samuel Christensen I have Ellis Island papers saying he came here in 1903. On these papers it states he had been here before as a sailor.
Arthur Samuel married Lucy Keller 1909 New York. My grandfather Robert K. born 1910 was expelled from the public school system (I don't know what year) and Arthur took the family back to norway. My grandfather Robert K. was shortly thereafter expelled from the Norwegian public school system.
Robert K. also told me that he worked as a fisherman from a very early age. I believe in Norway and America.
ROBERT K. also worked for the the ship line which became Norwegian cruise lines as a steward.
Both Arthur S. and Robert K. went back to settle in New york but I believe at different times.
Arthur Samuel Christensen returned to Norway after the death of his wife 1954-1958 but no one knows where in Norway.
My great aunt Othilie(Arthur's sister) married Christian Syverud.
They travelled back and forth many times. Finally setling in Norway.
I will try this Oslo kommune byarkivet again but it is very confusing.
Thank you Trond for this advice/lead!
Back to the search! Many new leads Thank you all!
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ericc
Starting member
USA
12 Posts |
Posted - 04/03/2007 : 22:29:08
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Thank you for the link Hopkins!
Sent a request for a look-up to bettylou .
I live in Levy county Florida near Gainesville/Ocala.
I think the nearest LDS library is in Orlando.
Can I just go there to view micro-film or do I have to arrange to have the particular micro-film sent there to be viewed?
thank you for all your help. |
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Hopkins
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3351 Posts |
Posted - 05/03/2007 : 01:23:38
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Actually there is an LDS Family History Center (FHC) in Gainesville and another in Ocala. A small center with very limited hours is also listed in Chiefland, Levy County. Having better knowledge of Florida geography you might spot another more convenient. Their Family Search website appears to list over 60 locations for Family History Centers in the state of Florida. Check those locations and their schedules for open hours at the familysearch.org website.
I'd recommend that you telephone the center of your choice to make sure the hours posted online are still current before you plan to visit. Family History Centers are staffed by volunteers and hours can vary when people are not available. The volunteer staff are usually members of their church - but not always.
You will probably have to personally visit to make your order for specific microfilms. I've rarely found that someone else has already ordered films for a particular area of interest to me. At my closest FHC it currently costs about $5.50 to order a microfilm to be sent from Salt Lake City and that film stays at the local FHC for about 5 to 6 weeks before it must be returned to Salt Lake City. If available, microfiche cost far less.
Study the online library catalog from home to decide what you might like to order. The Place Search function of the library catalog is an excellent place to start.
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Iver Hansen Dilling & Arthur Samuel Kristensen
