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BEV39
New on board

New Zealand
3 Posts
Posted - 04/06/2007 :  05:23:50  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Bertel Gundersen (born 1836) and wife Mari(Hansdotter Hansen, born 1843) emigrants aboard the Hovding to New Zealand. Wanting to know their Norwegian background..

NearNorsewood
Kiwi Viking special member

New Zealand
138 Posts
Posted - 04/06/2007 :  06:50:48  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi, Bev.

We've "met" before.

This couple is a "brick wall" for me. I cannot find Bertel/Berthol in the 1865 Norwegian census. Somehow I got a marriage date of 1864, which suggests they should be together in the census, but I haven't had any luck.

I had thought Bertel might be related to Maren HALVORSDATTER/GUNDERSEN (daugher of Halvor GUNDERSEN, who married Johan Christian MANDAHL) who also came to NZ per "Hĝvding" along with her sister, Anne Marie HALVORSDATTER (m. Fredrik MORTENSEN). Cannot confirm nor disprove.

The forum where I discussed this is here:
http://www.disnorge.no/slektsforum/viewtopic.php?t=36388&sid=ab72b6921188234a1c27381311511846 (see near end).

Do you have any info on where Bertel was born? - or where Marie was born? Marie's death cert is more likely to have accurate info than Bertel's since she died so soon after coming to NZ, and Bertel was still alive. In Bertel's case, his children may not have known exactly where he came from.

Would love to help you with this.
Pip
=====
Norsewood Cemetery & Settlers' Genealogies Project
www.norsewoodcemetery.co.nz
Edited by - NearNorsewood on 04/06/2007 06:58:01
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Kċarto
Norway Heritage Veteran

Norway
5861 Posts
Posted - 04/06/2007 :  07:18:42  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Bertel and Marie were both from Christiania/Oslo (born?). When they emigrated 1872 they had three sons, Hans age 7, Hans age 4 and Martinius age 1.
The two Hans´s was likely named after they grandfathers.
http://digitalarkivet.uib.no/cgi-win/webcens.exe?slag=visbase&sidenr=7&filnamn=EMIOSLO&gardpostnr=25233&merk=25233#ovre

Kċre
Edited by - Kċarto on 04/06/2007 07:37:53
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NearNorsewood
Kiwi Viking special member

New Zealand
138 Posts
Posted - 04/06/2007 :  07:23:47  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi, Bev.

Here's what I have:

Hans Gustav BERTELSEN (GUNDERSEN):
Parish Register: Oslo fylke, Ĝstre Aker, Ministerialbok nr. 1 (1861-1869), Page 79, Christening no. 107
http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=579&idx_id=579&uid=ny&idx_side=-89
b. 17 Jul 1865, Kristiania (now Oslo), Norway.
chr. 24 Sep 1865, Ĝstre Aker, Kristiania, Norway
Also here:
http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Search/VR/individual_record.asp?recid=29708630&lds=4®ion=12®ionfriendly=Norway&frompage=99

Hans BERTELSEN (GUNDERSEN):
Parish Register: Oslo fylke, Oslo Domkirke, Ministerialbok nr. 17 (1869-1878), Page 124, Christening no. 90
http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=579&idx_id=579&uid=ny&idx_side=-134
b. 11 Dec 1867, Norway
chr. 16 Aug 1868, Ĝstre Aker, Kristiania, Norway

Martinius (Martin) BERTELSEN (GUNDERSEN):
Parish Register: Oslo fylke, Oslo Domkirke, Ministerialbok nr. 17 (1869-1878), Page 149, Christening no. 109
http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=659&idx_id=659&uid=ny&idx_side=-159
b. 20 Feb 1871, Norway
chr. 11 Jun 1871, Domkirken, Kristiania, Norway

b. = born; chr. = Christened.
Pip
=====
Norsewood Cemetery & Settlers' Genealogies Project
www.norsewoodcemetery.co.nz
Edited by - NearNorsewood on 04/06/2007 07:25:01
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Kċarto
Norway Heritage Veteran

Norway
5861 Posts
Posted - 04/06/2007 :  07:48:12  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi,
the record you find on Hans Gustav says Bertel and Marie was coming from Ringerike in Buskerud County,or Ringsager in Hedmark, now living on Rodelĝkka in Oslo.
Then this is likely Marie age 20 in the 1865 census for Oslo working as a servant, nr 46919
http://digitalarkivet.uib.no/cgi-win/webcens.exe?slag=visbase&sidenr=119&filnamn=f60301&gardpostnr=2007&personpostnr=4691&merk=4691#ovre

Kċre
Edited by - Kċarto on 04/06/2007 15:41:01
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NearNorsewood
Kiwi Viking special member

New Zealand
138 Posts
Posted - 04/06/2007 :  08:08:51  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks, Kċre. I'll take a look.

The Christening record for Martinus reads something like
"109 20 Februar 11 Juni Martinius [ogte] Fabrikarbyder Bertel GUNDERSEN (36) og Hstr Marie HANSDATTER (28) 1864. Branderibakk. 14"
(See: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=659&idx_id=659&uid=ny&idx_side=-159 )

I assume "1864. Branderibakk. 14" points to their marriage except that I don't know how to interpret it (ie, don't know where it is - Google search didn't help).
Pip
=====
Norsewood Cemetery & Settlers' Genealogies Project
www.norsewoodcemetery.co.nz
Edited by - NearNorsewood on 04/06/2007 08:12:16
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Kċarto
Norway Heritage Veteran

Norway
5861 Posts
Posted - 04/06/2007 :  08:17:50  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi
Branderibakk 14 is their adress in Oslo, a street number.
Fabrikarbyder means factory-worker.
Her is the records for Ringerike, you seems very good in making look ups in these records.
http://www.disnorge.no/genress/index.php?todo=visKategori&kid=101453

Kċre
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NearNorsewood
Kiwi Viking special member

New Zealand
138 Posts
Posted - 04/06/2007 :  08:23:12  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks, Kċre.

Am I correct in thinking that they married in 1864?
Pip
=====
Norsewood Cemetery & Settlers' Genealogies Project
www.norsewoodcemetery.co.nz
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jwiborg
Norway Heritage Veteran

Norway
4961 Posts
Posted - 04/06/2007 :  12:10:46  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi,
Mari Hansdr and her firstborn son Hans (b, 17 Jul 1865 in Kristiania/Oslo), can be found in Ringsaker, Hedmark in census-1865

Her occupation is needlework, and her husband is [temporarily] in Hamar, Hedmark.

Jan Peter
Edited by - jwiborg on 04/06/2007 12:15:36
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Kċarto
Norway Heritage Veteran

Norway
5861 Posts
Posted - 04/06/2007 :  13:20:23  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi,
Ringsager in Hedmark was 2. posibility.

Bertel Gundersen age 28,5 and Mari Hansdatter age 20,5 married Oct. 17. 1864 in Rigsager, couple nr 53
http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=8844&idx_id=8844&uid=ny&idx_side=-261.

Bertel worked on farm Tĝmmerċsen in Biri in Oppland County and was born in Snertingdalen in Gausdal municipality in Oppland, close to the Lillehammer-94 olympics, he was son of Gunder Bertelsen.

Mari´s parents is mentioned in Jan Peters 1865 census abowe.

This must be Bertels father, widower Gunder Bertilsen on farm Flutuen and Bertels brother Hans, married to Anne Olsdatter and their son Gunder.
http://digitalarkivet.uib.no/cgi-win/webcens.exe?slag=visbase&sidenr=36&filnamn=f60522&gardpostnr=820&personpostnr=5308&merk=5308#ovre

It seems now that Mari Hansdatter in the 1865 cenus was wrong person (i´ll cansel it we are 100 % sure).

Kċre
Edited by - Kċarto on 04/06/2007 16:03:25
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NearNorsewood
Kiwi Viking special member

New Zealand
138 Posts
Posted - 04/06/2007 :  13:33:20  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks, Kċre.

At the other forum,
http://www.disnorge.no/slektsforum/viewtopic.php?t=36388&sid=ab72b6921188234a1c27381311511846
Vidar posted:
quote:
John Parson's "Norwegians in New Zealand" states that Bertel came from Sille Hamar which could be a misspelling of Lillehammer. So he was probably born in the Lillehammer area and later moved to Oslo.


So, it looks like this is probably correct.

I shall follow it up.

What good news!
Pip
=====
Norsewood Cemetery & Settlers' Genealogies Project
www.norsewoodcemetery.co.nz
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Kċarto
Norway Heritage Veteran

Norway
5861 Posts
Posted - 04/06/2007 :  14:12:53  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Yes it seems correct.

Sille Hamar: (a dear child has many names: A Norwegian saying)
When IOC president Juan Antonio Samaranch schould tell the world- press on a press-conferance that Lillehammer was elected for the -94 olympics he pronunced Lilly Hammer, a femmale name.

They married in Veldre old church in Ringsaker. It burned down 1996, picture show both the old and the new church.
http://www.hego.no/hw/veldre/

Pictures from Snertingdal
http://www.rolfsteinar.net/snertingdal/bilder.htm

Kċre
Edited by - Kċarto on 05/06/2007 00:05:05
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eibache
Norway Heritage Veteran

Norway
6495 Posts
Posted - 04/06/2007 :  18:12:47  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Sorry, worked on this while the new info was listed - consider it as a proof.
Bertel and Marie came to Kristiania from Ringsager. Their married Oct 17 1864, the record is #53 here http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=8844&idx_id=8844&uid=ny&idx_side=-261
Bertel was 28 and a half year old when he married, he was born in Snĉrtingdalen, Gausdal but lived at Tĝmeraasen in Biri. His father was Gunder Bertelsen. Bertel can be found in the LDS born March 3 1837. His father is still living in 1865 here http://digitalarkivet.uib.no/cgi-win/webcens.exe?slag=visbase&sidenr=31&filnamn=f60522&gardpostnr=820&personpostnr=5308&merk=5308#ovre
Marie was 20 and a half year old when they married, she was born at Simenstad, ?? and her father was Hans Steffensen. In 1865 she stayed with her parents in Ringsager while "hennes mand er paa Hamar" (her husband is in Hamar). http://digitalarkivet.uib.no/cgi-win/webcens.exe?slag=visbase&sidenr=15&filnamn=f60412&gardpostnr=1591&personpostnr=9405&merk=9405#ovre
Einar
Edited by - eibache on 04/06/2007 18:17:23
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Kċarto
Norway Heritage Veteran

Norway
5861 Posts
Posted - 04/06/2007 :  18:20:07  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi,
you are right Einar, Marie/Maria was born on Simenstadeie, a cotters place under farm Simenstad which likely was where her mother Elie Mikkelsdatter came from.

Marie was born August 28. 1843, nr 124.
Her father Hans Steffensen was from farm Sylingsaaseie, a cotter place under Sylliaasen
http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=6013&idx_id=6013&uid=ny&idx_side=-118

Kċre
Edited by - Kċarto on 04/06/2007 18:30:31
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eibache
Norway Heritage Veteran

Norway
6495 Posts
Posted - 04/06/2007 :  20:28:31  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Maries parents Hans and Eli was married May 22 1841 #30 here http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=6013&idx_id=6013&uid=ny&idx_side=-308
Hans was born on the farm Ringsager lille (Ringsager is "Prestegaarden"), he lived at Smestad when he married and his father was Steffen Arnesen.
Eli was born and lived at Simenstadeiet, her father was Mikkel Larsen. The best men Ole Olsen and Hans father both came from "Prestegaarden".
Einar
Edited by - eibache on 04/06/2007 20:43:36
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eibache
Norway Heritage Veteran

Norway
6495 Posts
Posted - 04/06/2007 :  20:42:22  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Eli was born April 28 1816 #56 http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=6009&idx_id=6009&uid=ny&idx_side=-25
Her mother was Eli Jensdatter, one godparent is Lars Simenstad - most probably Mikkels father (and Elis grandfather)
Einar
Edited by - eibache on 04/06/2007 20:44:35
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