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Richard Schumacher
Junior member
USA
53 Posts |
 Posted - 24/11/2007 : 20:04:38
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My gg - grandfather supposedly immigrated from Norway to Wisconsin before 1850 (possibly 1845-50). His fist name was Peter and U.S. "records" show a last name of Ondell, Ondall, Ollendorf and Undell. I do not know what last name he used when he arrived in Milwaukee - perhaps it was either a farm name or his fathers (son) name. Most records show he was born 1814 or 1817. Unfortunately, I only have a few guesses regarding his family farm or parent's names.(One is that he was Peder Petersen (b. 1817 in Uldalen, Oppland), but have no proof or links.
Question #1 - Where can I go to get a list of pre-1850 immigrants to Wisconsin or possibly Canada? There are probably not nearly as many immigrants as 10 to 20 years later.
A county history book (La Crosse, Wisconsin - 1870) "reported" that he came to Milwaukee, Wisconsin and then to Walworth, Whitewater county (abt 1850) before moving to Monroe county(abt 1859) and finally La Crosse county (1880).
The same county history book "reported" that he had two sons that were born in Milwaukee - Charles (b, 7/28/1851) and Louis/Lewis (b. 12/15/1852). The 1850 census places him as working in Walworth county that is adjacent to Milwaukee county and in 1850, conditions there were quite primitive and undeveloped, so his wife may have stayed in Milwukee. Later children were born in Whitewater, Walworth county in 1854/55 and 1857.
Question #2 - Where can I go to in Milwukee (only 300 miles away) to find records this old with "reported" birth dates? - Most Milwaukee records start about 1854.
Any and all advise will be appreciated.
Dick
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Edited by - Richard Schumacher on 19/12/2007 03:48:44 |
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Brining
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
868 Posts |
Posted - 25/11/2007 : 03:25:12
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You might want to try NAGCNL in Madison. Click Here
Carla |
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DALB
Medium member
USA
143 Posts |
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jwiborg
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
4961 Posts |
Posted - 25/11/2007 : 14:47:13
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A lot of info about these people have already been collected here and here.
Regarding this "Wisconsin-neighbor" Johan Andreas Aandahl, who could be a relative to your Peter Ondell:
Johan Andreas' original marriage record with Marie Løkke (Johanna Maria Johannesdatter Løkke) from Vår Frue Kirke, Trondheim on 16 Nov 1847 states that he was born in Christiansund, and that his father was Peder Aandahl.
This could be his chr record:
Johan Andreas Pedersen
Birth: 24 DEC 1824
Christening: 06 FEB 1825, Bud, Møre og Romsdal
Parents: Peder Nielsen & Mari Olsdr
LDS have a record of one Peder Nielssen & Mari Olsdr who got married in Bud, Møre Og Romsdal on 28 JUL 1816. They also have a son named Niels born 04 MAR 1820.
But can Peder Nielsen & Mari Olsdr be linked to any Aandahl farm? They did not live there in 1824, when this Johan Andreas was born...
Bud is now a part of Fræna municipality in Møre og Romsdal, just south of Kristiansund.
It's quite hard to find the "final" evidence about the origin of this Peter Ondell! 
Jan Peter |
Edited by - jwiborg on 25/11/2007 16:55:15 |
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Jean Marthaler
Junior member
USA
56 Posts |
Posted - 25/11/2007 : 17:43:24
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Richard, hello, without realizing all this previous work had been done on your Peter Ondell I played with the info a bit last night.
Now with the new posting by Jwiborg I see that much research has been done. One of the things that caught my eye in looking at all of the past research is this info on Sivert Aageson and Mari Ellingsdatter having a son, Peter born on 12/23/1814. If you look at the info on Martin Ondell (son of Peter Ondell) in this La Crosse County book you will see that it lists his father’s birth at December 25, 1814 in Norway. This Sivert and Mari entry might be someone to check out further with the closeness of these dates. Again I want to point out that Peter had a big variety of ages depending upon which record we are looking at.
JEAN MARTHALER
FROM OLD POSTING ON THE INTERNET:
I found a Sivert Aagesen Aandal and Mari Ellingsdatter that had a son, Peter Sivertson who was born on 12/23/1814 and baptised on 12/25/1814 in Norway. Peter Sivertson Aandal could be Peter Ondell. Kornstad, More og Romsdal, Norway
From History of La Crosse County, Wisconsin, 1881, p. 845 - 846.
Town of Burns
MARTIN ONDELL, P. O. Rockland; son of Peter Ondell, who was born in Norway Dec. 25, 1814; he came to this country when a young man; first came to Milwaukee, Wis.; thence to Whitewater; now resides in the town of Leon; he built the warehouse and a store in Rockland, the latter being occupied by his son, Lewis Ondell. Has four children, three sons and one daughter - Charlie, born July 28, 1851; Lewis, born in Milwaukee, Dec. 15, 1852; Mary, born Nov. 5, 1854, and Martin, born in Whitewater Dec. 9, 1857. Lewis engaged in the mercantile business in Rockland March, 1879; married Anna Barber; has two children - Alton William and Elsie. Martin is engaged in the grain business at Rockland.
One other thing that keeps popping up for this Peter Ondell is the various ages he appears to be.
In the 1870 census for Leon, Monroe County, WI, Peter is listed as 47 years old.
Nordmenn i 1850-tellingen i USA
Given name Last name Age Sex Occupation Birth place Page Circuit County State Remarks
9149 Ester Johnson 20 f Norway 399 Whitewater Walworth Wisconsin
9150 Ellen Everson 21 f Norway 399 Whitewater Walworth Wisconsin
9151 Nancy Matlund 18 f Norway 399 Whitewater Walworth Wisconsin
9152 Peter Ondall 26 m painter Norway 402 Whitewater Walworth Wisconsin
Nordmenn i USA i 1860-teljinga
State County Circuit Page Given name Last name Sex Age Birth place
41712 Wisconsin Monroe Leon 73 Peter Ollendorf m 40 Norway
41713 Wisconsin Monroe Leon 73 Chaster Ollendorf f 46 Norway
41714 Wisconsin Monroe Leon 73 Chas Ollendorf m 9 Wisconsin
41715 Wisconsin Monroe Leon 73 Lewis Ollendorf m 7 Wisconsin
41716 Wisconsin Monroe Leon 73 Mary Ollendorf f 5 Wisconsin
41717 Wisconsin Monroe Leon 73 Martin Ollendorf m 3 Wisconsin
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Jean Marthaler
Junior member
USA
56 Posts |
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jwiborg
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
4961 Posts |
Posted - 25/11/2007 : 18:22:11
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It says he is going to Hustad sogn (parish).
Kornstad i Kvernes, Møre og Romsdal, born & christened 1814, page 372
Link
Looks like the father reads Sivert Aagesen Aandal.
I think Sivert Aagesen Aandal & Mari Ellingsdatter from Kornstad, Møre og Romsdal are a very good possibility for Peter Ondell's parents! 
The former municipality Kornstad has now been joined with Kvernes and Bremsnes into Averøy municipality.
Children of Sivert Aagesen Aandal and Mari Ellingsdatter:
Elling Sivertsen, chr 20 SEP 1807, Kornstad, Møre og Romsdal. Elling Sivertsen Nas (18½) confirmed in Kornstad in 1826.
Magnild Sivertsdr, chr 05 FEB 1809, Kornstad, Møre og Romsdal
Karen Sivertsdr, born 22 SEP 1811, Kornstad, Møre og Romsdal
Peder Sivertsen, chr 25 DEC 1814, Kornstad, Møre og Romsdal
Sivert Sivertsen, chr 07 SEP 1817, Kornstad, Møre og Romsdal
Anna Sivertsdr, chr 28 APR 1820, Kvernes, Møre og Romsdal
However, a bit strange that there is no trace of any Aandahl farm in Kornstad/Kværnes/Averøy.
In 1865, Aandahl-farms can be found in Gryten, Frænen and Thingvold, Møre og Romsdal.
Jan Peter |
Edited by - jwiborg on 25/11/2007 23:47:42 |
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Richard Schumacher
Junior member
USA
53 Posts |
Posted - 19/12/2007 : 03:37:20
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Sorry to be late in replying to all of the good thoughts and information I have received. I sincerely appreciate all the comments and suggestions.
I agree that the Peter Severtsen (b 12/1814) is indeed a very strong possibility as the father of my great-grandmother, Mary Dorothea Ondell. My problem is obtaining information sources - birth records of her and her siblings that identify the parents by either an Americanized name or a Norwegian name. Unfortunately, I seem to be running into a void where the information in Wisconsin for that period is not readily available or does not exist. - If they had been 10 years younger, it would have been much different. Milwaukee may be the best source, since it was far more settled in 1850 than the areas 50-100 miles away.
I spent some fruitless time at UWM (University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee), but did not allot enough time to begin to scratch the surface. - I also want to research my great-great grandfather from a different line (Luxembourg) that was naturalized there a few years later. Researching Mary and her siblings records is the more traditional method, but the gap seems to exist. - Perhaps one record (if found) will reveal a clue back to parents or Norway.
Regarding Peter Ondell, I have reconciled the obvious variations in his birth and all of his movings from 1850 on by census, local records, marriage records, land transfers and by far the most likely birth informations is December (all sources), 1814 (most reliable sources after +or- 1 year census timing deviations and 10 year subtraction errors are recognized). I ran into similar problems with 1850-1900 Wisconsin census documents for my Swedish ancestors. The local Wisconsin census records were not as accurate as the corresponding Norwegian records or the corresponding Pennsylvania records for my wife's ancestors. I have also been able to accurately document the children of Peter Ondell and his last wife. I still do not have any reliable information on the identity of Mary Dorothea Ondell's mother yet (my next challenge), although I do know that Peter hated potatoes when he was a grocer in 1900.
Approaching my problem from the early Norwegian perspective and moving toward today is equally difficult because I only have a possiblity, but have not been able to identify any emmigration from or death in Norway, so the possibility is still open. The gap between the 1801 and the next census and the lack of any movement during that period within Norway make the proof of a link more difficult. There were very few records on crossings prior to 1850 and I have not been able to find that he did actually move to North America.
I have been operating on the theory that the other Ondells in Wisconsin may have been relatives of Peter or just that they came from the same area in Norway (More og Romsdal/Trondelag, etc) because of the names used. I have almost as much information on them (and some descendents photos) as I do for Peter Ondell.
One of my biggest puzzles is a Mary Ondell (b. abt 1820 in Norway) that was committed to the State Hospital for the Insane in about 1862 and tranferred/released in 1882-88. She lived in the same county as Peter OndelI in 1862, but Peter was married to one of his 3 wives at that time. I got this from the U.S. Census documents and from a personal conversation with the hospital. Unfortunately, after the 9/11/2001 disaster and subsequent regulations, the access to much information in the Republic of Wisonsin has been severely limited. Other members of the Ondell family currently in Wisconsin have not been able to provide any information.
I plan to follow your suggestions and take a week or so to go to Madison, Walworth County and Milwaukee to see what is there. Any addition thoughts on sources/places to investigate would be appreciated. |
Edited by - Richard Schumacher on 19/12/2007 03:53:43 |
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Hopkins
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3351 Posts |
Posted - 19/12/2007 : 05:34:24
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| Have you checked "Norwegian Immigrants to the United States" by Gerhard Naeseth, Vol I & II, III covering the years of 1825-1848? |
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Richard Schumacher
Junior member
USA
53 Posts |
Posted - 19/12/2007 : 05:44:22
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Hopkins -
I have not found any local (Minnesota) sources of the reference, but I know it is available in Madison, Wisconsin. I have not found it locally, yet through the Sons of Norway, although it may be at the Swedish American Institute in Minneapolis, where some meetings are held. |
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Hopkins
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3351 Posts |
Posted - 19/12/2007 : 12:39:37
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Look for persons who have access to the volumes and who have volunteered to do limited lookups.
http://www.rootsweb.com/~norway/lookups.html
WorldCat indicates that at least some volumes of those books are available in Minnesota at Concordia College Library, Luther Seminary Library, Minneapolis Public Library, Minnesota Historical Society, Rochester Public Library, St. Olaf College, and the University of Minnesota (Minneapolis). Across the entire US listed at least 61 libraries.
Title: Norwegian immigrants to the United States : a biographical directory, 1825-1850 Author: Naeseth, Gerhard B
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Richard Schumacher
Junior member
USA
53 Posts |
Posted - 31/12/2007 : 04:14:34
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Hopkins -
Thank you for the sources of the Naeseth volumes.
Unfortunately, my first source of the reference had only one of the 5 volumes (I thought there were 4), but no luck on any names. I will have to source the other locations. While I wnet throught the volume, I looked for Peter Ondell and the most like other similar possibilities (Peter/Peder Sivertsen and siblings) and noticed the absence of the Sivertsen name and wondered if there may have been some other variations in the name. I also looked for Naas and Nas
Even though I am also working from old to newer records, I tried to find any information on Peder and siblings in Norwegian records prior to and and in the 1865 census. I also noticed a rarity of the names in general. Is this just that the names are somewhat rare or unusual?
While trying to accuratly document Peter Ondell's activities, I went over the Wisconsin copy of his marriage certificate and would like an opinion on the dates. The Wiscinsin Vital Records index lists the date as 1851, while looking at the actual record, I see the date as 1857 when comparing the old wrting of the number "1". Am I correct? This is a copy of the record:
http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m114/Deekie40/Geneology/PeterOndellmarriage.jpg
Again thanks for the assistance and any opinions
Dick
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Hopkins
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3351 Posts |
Posted - 01/01/2008 : 14:48:58
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The handwriting is pretty but not that easy to determine the year. It MIGHT read a 7 - but then where is the final top line for the preceding 5?? It could also be the final line across the 5 and quickly swooping into the writing of a following 1.
You listed that there were children born in 1851 and 1852 -- that would make the 1851 marriage date seem more probable. |
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Richard Schumacher
Junior member
USA
53 Posts |
Posted - 04/01/2008 : 20:09:26
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I definitely agree that the handwriting is pretty, but unclear. None of the obvious "1"s have a leading tail and none of the obvious "5"s have a finished top. The birth dates do point toward the 1851 date if they were legitimate and she (Christine) was the mother, but because Peter was 37 in 1851 and 43 in 1857, it is possible they were from a previous marriage. - I did learn that according to the 1860 U.S. Census, one of the witnesses at the marriage (Caroline Tollefson) was a nighbor of the family (John Myers from Norway) that cared for a John Ondell (b. 1852 in Norway). Caroline was born in Norway about 1809 and her husband died between the marriage/witness dateand 1860.
More importantly, I had hoped that Peter Sivertsen was my Peter Ondell.
I looked for Peter Sivertsen and his siblings in the 1865 Norwegian Census to determine if the family or the individuals immigrated or stayed in Norway.
I think I found Peter Sivertsen. There is a Peter Sivertsen listed as a farmer at Gudal farm in Hustad, Bud, More og Romsdal. His age is listed as 50, which could agree with his Decemebr 1814 birthdate. The location also agrees with the 1842 move from Kornstad to Hustad.
I also think I found his sister Ane/Anna as being married and living on the Mekvig farm in Kornstad, Kværnes, More og Romsdal. Her birth date of 1820 agrees with other family data.
I also think I found his brother, Sivert, as being married and living on the Gautvik farm in Kornstad, Kværnes, More og Romsdal. His birth date of 1817 also agrees with the other family data.
It looks like the family did not immigrate and Peter did not either.
I went through the first 4 volumes of the Naeseth research of Norwegians in the USA and did not find any possible connections with Peter Sivertsen or any probable candidates for a Peter Ondell.
Now my continued best option is to try to find any of the birth records of Peter's children in the "records poor" area of Walworth County, Wisconsin. Because the information on the birth places is not documented beyong being in a 1871 local book printed a distance from Walworth county, I assume the general area is correct, but the birth could have been from either Milwaukee, Racine or Walworth counties. So far, I have not found any researchers, but am continuing on that path also. - Thank you all for the assistance and suggestions. |
Edited by - Richard Schumacher on 05/01/2008 02:51:10 |
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Immigration before 1850
