| Author |
 Topic  |
|
|
atle-unnimarie
Junior member
USA
30 Posts |
 Posted - 18/12/2007 : 08:14:49
|
Passenger list of ALMA arr. Quebec June 1, 1869 from Bergen shows passenger #68 is John Ottesen Gjerlow. This clearly is a spelling error. It should be Atlesen (Atleson in eventual censuses.) Johns father was Atle Torgersen Kvam79 of Aurland, S&F. His mother was Unni Marie Jonsdtr. Onstad-Hoidal1, Aurland, S&F.
I hope this provides enough rationale for the webmaster or whomever to correct the Passenger List from Ottesen to Atlesen as well as to correct other documents repeating the error. This would enable those looking for Atlesen to find the name which they would not find otherwise.
John settled in/around Albert Lea, Freeborn Co. MN, married an Aurlander who died shortly after bearing their only child - a son. John remarried with another Aurlander in 1885, moved to Carthage, Minor Co. SD, and had seven more children including my dad. |
Edited by - atle-unnimarie on 19/12/2007 09:55:44 |
|
|
Hopkins
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3351 Posts |
Posted - 19/12/2007 : 13:55:38
|
When searching original records you'll find that the spelling of names, places, etc. are riddled with misspellings. It is a common happening with original source records. Genealogists and historical researchers deal with this continuously and have learned to make of a copy of the record as is for their own research, and cite the source of the material.
If the original record contains that spelling the record online will contain that spelling. This is to preserve the integrity of the transcribed data from the original record.
Standard practice:
In the field of genealogy, a transcription is an exact copy of a source document. The key word here is exact. Everything should be rendered exactly as found in the original source - spelling, punctuation, abbreviations and the arrangement of text. If a word is misspelled in the original, then it should be identically misspelled in the transcription. If the document being transcribed has every other word capitalized, then the transcription should as well.
To make serious genealogy and not historical fiction, you need in all things greatest accuracy. It is absolutely necessary to note and verify all the smallest details, to never alter or translate names, to respect strictly the variable spellings, accents and Umlauts.
If the original handwritten copy of the passenger list or ships list reads "Ottesen" then the transcription and database must also list "Ottesen". Some databases have the allowed the possibility of adding a comment or 'notes' which may reflect alternative spellings or other material.
|
 |
|
|
atle-unnimarie
Junior member
USA
30 Posts |
Posted - 20/12/2007 : 07:18:41
|
Thanks, Hopkins, for your response and clarification. I do understand and accept the logic of changing nothing, preserving the original as envisioned / interpreted, & adding supplemental notes only if allowed.
I now see per your comments that I and everyone must allow for possible mispellings, errors etc.
I still have a problem tracking Hoidal / Hoydal, each of which was correct at given pointa of time. Huddle was the only alternate possibility I considered, but I see I must open my eyes wider!! I got no matches there. Unni Maries brother Johan Peder Jonsen Hoidal came to the USA in the 1850's, but I have no corroborating data. Do you or anyone out there have any suggestions for other variants?
As everything of the OTT / ATLesen does match the facts, I know I am right, but only I will be the present beneficiary of that data unless I can properly append any documents.
Again, thanks Hopkins. |
Edited by - atle-unnimarie on 20/12/2007 07:37:16 |
|
|
|
Hopkins
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3351 Posts |
Posted - 20/12/2007 : 13:14:01
|
There is a farm or group of farms called Høidal in Aurland, Sogn og Fjordane in the 1865 Norwegian census database and several persons residing there listed with the 'last name' of Johns. (Abbreviations of either Johnsen or Johnsdatter).
Since in your John Atlesen's birth and confirmation records in the Aurland parish books his mother is recorded as Unni Johnsdtr - those persons may have family relationship to her.
You now seek information about a 'Johan Peder Jonsen Hoidal' I don't recall you mentioning before .
- When was he born?
- Do you have any more exact information about WHEN he left Aurland?
- How thoroughly have you already researched in the Aurland parish records?
- Exactly what event in his life is that you are looking for "corroborating data"?
|
|
|
|
Hopkins
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3351 Posts |
Posted - 20/12/2007 : 15:51:19
|
Unni Marie did have a brother named Peder Johan - born just a little over two years after her. But he still resided in Aurland at the time of the 1865 Norwegian census -- on one of the Høidal farms.
One of his sons, "John P. Hoidal", later emigrates to the US and appears in the 1910 US census in Freeborn Co., Minn. In that census he lists his year of immigration as 1867.
What is the source of your notations of "Kvam79" and "Onstad-Hoidal1"? Why are those numbers attached to what appear to be farm names? |
|
|
|
Borge
Veteran Moderator
Norway
1297 Posts |
Posted - 20/12/2007 : 17:26:58
|
quote:
Originally posted by atle-unnimarie
Passenger list of ALMA arr. Quebec June 1, 1869 from Bergen shows passenger #68 is John Ottesen Gjerlow. This clearly is a spelling error. It should be Atlesen (Atleson in eventual censuses.) Johns father was Atle Torgersen Kvam79 of Aurland, S&F. His mother was Unni Marie Jonsdtr. Onstad-Hoidal1, Aurland, S&F.
I hope this provides enough rationale for the webmaster or whomever to correct the Passenger List from Ottesen to Atlesen as well as to correct other documents repeating the error. This would enable those looking for Atlesen to find the name which they would not find otherwise.
John settled in/around Albert Lea, Freeborn Co. MN, married an Aurlander who died shortly after bearing their only child - a son. John remarried with another Aurlander in 1885, moved to Carthage, Minor Co. SD, and had seven more children including my dad.
Thanks for pointing out the name differences. It is as Hopkins pointed out not a good idea to make changes to what was written in the original source. However, we have an option to post additional information to each of the passenger lists from the link just below the list. I am including the link here: Passenger list 1869 - bark Alma. Trond Austheim and I are working on a great new database of Norwegian emigrants which we hope will be a great addition to the passenger list database. We are also hoping to be able to include a public upload of information to the new database, but it is quite complicated, and as we are doing all this by our selves on our spare time without any funding, it might take some time so don't hold your breath  I am including an image showing how the name was written in the original source.
 |
Børge Solem |
|
|
|
atle-unnimarie
Junior member
USA
30 Posts |
Posted - 21/12/2007 : 07:44:11
|
Hopkins and Borge. Thanks for your comments. Here are a few of my responses. More at another time.
First. I did make comments in the Passenger list of the Alma. Thanks for the lead.
Your comments helped confirm certain data re P J Hoidal & J P Hoidal as well as dates. I was going from my sometimes untrusty memory. With both of your data I will attempt to formally 'corroborate' this with firm reference to source documents. Does this sound logical or is it overkill?
Primary source is the Aurland Bygdebook written by Anders Ohnstad & Ann Gjerlow. Farm Names are followed by Farm Numbers to depict a farm ownership time line. Farm Numbers are followed by Alpha sequencing to specify fist born, second etc. John here was the 2nd born and first son. He would have 'inherited' the farm, but chose to emigrate at 22 in 1869. (The farm was in the family no more than five years ago and probably still is.)
I have referred to Vangen Parish - Aurland records and seen from LDS physh the "In / Out" Books. I know NO Norwegian. My problems were in Volume I (History) of the Bygedebook as it was written in Norwegian. Vol II (Farm Names & Genealagy) is very easy to grasp.
My efforts have been confined to Aurland. I would beleieve other Bygedbooks have a similar format, but am not sure. I have tracked the Onstad/Ohnstad Unni Marie line back to prox 1690. Yes, Peder Johan Hoidal and John "P" Hoidal are her blood. Looks like somewhere along the line, spelling went from Jon to John. Bummer. I like the Jon.
Thanks for the lead re John P Hoidal to Albert Lea in 1867. I must do further research on this. Do you have any suggestions re variant US spellings for Hoidal other than the y/i?
I also have info re Unni Maries sister Gjertrud Elizabet Malene Jonsdtr. Hoida1. She died after having 3 or 5 children in Aurland. Her widower & the children went to the US from Vangen, Aurland. I do not remember the year and do not know the ports. He, Torbjorn (do not remember patrinymical now) BELL(X) had three girls born in US - Iowa or MN, prob MN. One - Bertha Bell- became the second wife of my US Census John Atleson Jerlow in 1885 then they moved to SD. John & Bertha started another family. Family blood ran thick in the past!!!
Oops. I am diverting from your questions. Pardon me. On my next posting I will be more focused. Again, thanks to the both of you. Very helpful.
PS When I see the name Borge I think of the Dane Victor. Loved him. As an aside, I am a quarter Dane & Scotch.
PPS. I live in California. Not as many Norwegians here as in the mid west, Thus, my car License Plate reads AURLAND. I feel very lucky. |
Edited by - atle-unnimarie on 21/12/2007 09:36:21 |
|
|
|
Hopkins
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3351 Posts |
Posted - 21/12/2007 : 14:34:17
|
To check PRIMARY source documents is never "overkill" - that's the proper method. But keep in mind I'm a "purist" when it comes to this hobby of genealogy and I'm not casual about it. Bygdebøks are great and wonderful BUT they are SECONDARY sources and can contain far more errors than the PRIMARY sources. Different bygdebøks (bygdebøker) by many different authors and editors have different styles and formats - if you want to see the variety visit a library with a collection of them and wander through the bookshelves taking a peek. Salt Lake City Family History Library has the largest collection that I've seen in the US.
Small aside - the word for that type of microform isn't "physh" but fiche. But your spelling was quite entertaining and I knew what you meant because it "sounds like". At least we know that English isn't the only language where spelling can be such a challenge -- the entire focus of our discussion concerns spelling. Apply the same "SOUNDS LIKE" logic to looking for possible spelling variations.
When it comes to having a number of different name spellings for the same person (and also spelling variations for places) - I keep notes of ALL spellings found about the person's life and death in my software and I keep notes of exactly what document (where, when, what, etc) that spelling was found on. The genealogy software I use calls these 'name variations', many other genealogy software will store them as "AKA" or "Also known as". One of my great-great-grandmother's brothers is recorded through his life with different spelling in EVERY document I've found so far.
I collect all the narratives in Norwegian about each ancestor from the Norwegian bygdebøker and ættarbøker that I've consulted even though I can't read it (yet?). I work at translating from time to time later using a good Norwegian-English dictionary and occasionally the help of trusted friend(s) when a word or phrase eludes me. While it's not a task that I enjoy - it can be an interesting job and sometimes very entertaining stories are hidden in them. I'm learning some Norwegian words as I continue researching my ancestors - but I doubt that I'll ever be fluent. My purpose is to continue with my genealogy research, not to become a master of the language.
|
|
|
|
eibache
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
6495 Posts |
Posted - 23/12/2007 : 10:01:34
|
Unni Maries baptismal record is the top one on the right hand page here
and her brother Peder Johan is the fourth from the top on the right hand page here
Atle and Unni Marie in 1865 is here
and Peder Johan here
|
Einar |
Edited by - eibache on 23/12/2007 10:06:21 |
|
|
| |
Topic |
|
|
|
| Norway Heritage Community |
© NorwayHeritage.com |
|
|
|
Spelling ERROR - Ottesen:Atlesen, 1869
